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| Hi, I live near New York CIty
I'm looking for someone to teach me NETI Sutra (that's when you get a string to go through your nose) and VASTRA DHAUTI (CLOTH) (that's when you eat 3 meters of wet cloth and cleanse your system that way).
Am I looking at the wrong forum?
Thanks,
Alexandra. | |
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| They are easy. You don't need a teacher. Just follow the words from any yoga books. | |
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| dear Sannichka:
I wish to give following suggestions with all love. The cleansing techniques you described are NOT necessary in today's world if you follow proper healthy practices, such as proper diet, hygiene, etc. And, they are useless if you do not follow the later. So, make sure that you do the later very well and then only do the former if you are still interested.
Neel Kulkani
www.authenticyoga.org | |
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| Neel,
I'm curious why you say the kriyas are useless unless you do vastra dhauti, or why they're unecessary.
In my experience I have found them to be very helpful, especially jala and sutra neti, even though I've not been able to perform vastra dhauti. I haven't overcome the gagging reflex. Nevertheless, the kriyas which I do use, I find to be very beneficial in terms of removing phlegm as well as stiffness and clearing the head.
I think it's accurate to say these should be performed in the context of a complete practice and with a proper diet. If the diet isn't clean then it sort of defeats the purpose. Performing kriyas while doing a juice fast, along with regular asana and pranyama practice, can yield extremely good results.
These techniques, like most of yoga, are best learned from a reputable and qualified instructor, and not from books. Learning from books and videos is only a short term solution, and can be risky. Better to be sure you're doing things correctly, with all aspects of one's practice in balance, under competent supervision for best results.
People who wish to learn the kriyas can contact a teacher trained in Sivananda Yoga, who can advise them. You can spend time at one of the Sivananda ashrams or centers, where they frequently have workshops on these topics. For more info see: http://www.sivananda.org | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
  
Location: A Blue State | Hmmm... I think that I'd have to agree with Neel so far as the putting a string
through my nose or partially swallowing a long bit of cloth. The Hatha Yoga
Pradipika contains a number of additional cleansings (as well as those mentioned),
such as a yogic enema and some unspeakable things concerning the urethra.
The HYP is a medieval text, written at a time when food, hygiene, and
anatomical knowledge where a bit different than now. It's hard to see any of these
as necessary, and the urethral techniques are almost certainly dangerous. | |
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| Bay Guy,
Sutra neti and jala neti are relatively easy to do, and they're pretty much standard practice in contemporary hatha yoga from the intermediate stage, at least in Sivananda, Ananda Marka and Vivekenanada, among other schools. Vamana (salt water cleansing of upper digestive tract) and basti (colon cleansing) are others which serious practitioners should consider. The results are nothing short of spectacular. You'll never know until you try. Neel is right that good yogic diet and hygene are important. The kriyas are no substitute for these. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | I've been experimenting with sutra neti (the neti pot), which is interesting and
perhaps useful. I'm not dismissing all kriyas, and I know that the Sivanandas
among others recommend some of the more exotic kriyas. I was thumbing through
one of my translations of the HYP last night, and I still think that some
of these practices are not sensible. The one that involves induced vomiting, for example,
means washing stomach acid back over your teeth; it's been documented among
bulimics that this accelerates tooth decay if done very often. | |
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| Vamana kriya might be done daily for a week during an intensive period of practice, and then perhaps weekly for several weeks, but not indefinately. None of the kriyas need be done indefinately. They're best thought of as accesories for when you're in a period of intensive practice, and thereafter at periodic intervals as maintenance, like changing the oil in your car. It's like getting the gunk and sludge out of the inside of your engine, then keeping it out with regular maintanence. Just purification of the physical body. How often you do kriyas depends on how you feel. You'll know when it's time to use them. | |
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| Bay Guy,
I am curious to know what urethral techniques are mentioned in the HYP. Can you please give me the verse numbers? When I read the HYP some time ago, I dont recollect any urethral techniques.
Sannichka,
I have never tried sutra-neti but I do jala-neti (water instead of string) a lot and have found it to be very beneficial. I had a constantly running nose which was cured after about 3-4 months of regular jala-neti. Instead of vastra dhauti, you may try a purgative like castor oil. However, I have indeed heard from some people who have done vastra dhauti that the cleansing is much more thorough as compared to a purgative. It is important to learn vastra dhauti from a teacher instead of from a book. because it is not simply a matter of swallowing a cloth and pulling it out like described in the HYP. There is a safe methodology, which spans across 5 days, the only parts of which I remember are to fast and eat ghee for 2 days after you do vastra dhauti since this helps in restoring the damaged abdominal lining.
addendum - the upstate catskills sivananda ashram does organize weeklong kriya workshops. look them up.
Edited by levitatingyogi 2005-03-13 6:23 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | levitatingyogi - 2005-03-13 6:21 PM
Bay Guy,
I am curious to know what urethral techniques are mentioned in the HYP. Can you please give me the verse numbers? When I read the HYP some time ago, I dont recollect any urethral techniques.
There is a safe methodology, which spans across 5 days, the only parts of which I remember are to fast and eat ghee for 2 days after you do vastra dhauti since this helps in restoring the damaged abdominal lining.
The urethral techniques are in connection with Vajroli Mudra and related issues.
Here I refer to the Commentary on the Hatha Yoga Pradipika by
Swami Muktibodhananda originating from the Bihar School of Yoga, 1993.
The following is their translation of Chapter 3, Verse 86:
By slowing drawing in air through a prescribed tube inserted into the urethra
of the penis, gradually air and prana traverse into the vajra kanda.
The commentary includes rather detailed instructions for this practice, running to
more than 3 pages, and including instructions for drawing water and other liquids
up into the bladder through the tube in question.
The translation by B.D. Akers (Yogavidya.com 2002) renders Verse 86 as
follows:
Blow firmly and slowly into the hole of the thunderbolt with a suitable hollow
stalk to allow air movement.
Akers provides no commentary. The meaning of thunderbolt is clear in context of the
surrounding verses.
Does it not bother you that a damaged abdominal lining results from vastra dhauti?
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| ugghh. i think i will stay away from that one..
Does it not bother you that a damaged abdominal lining results from vastra dhauti?
To be honest, it doesnt bother me - ofcourse it is possible to overdo it and really damage yourself, but, such kriyas are done very infrequently and that too only to cleanse the sytem after which you maintain it with a proper diet. Also, it (supposedly) does get a lot of gook out which otherwise evades castor oil and induced vomitting. Our bodies do have the regenerative capacity to recover from the damage to the lining, and we are likely to lose this capacity soon since we no longer use it. But then, I tend to have orthodox views about certain things - especially about preferring natural remedies and rest over medication, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
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| Bay Guy - 2005-03-14 10:49 AM
Does it not bother you that a damaged abdominal lining results from vastra dhauti?
Actually, there is a very common but little known phenomenon called "mucoid plaque" which is, just that: a layer of dried and hardened mucous which builds up over time in the GI tract. When you see folks with large bellies, a lot of it is that, just buildup in the intestinal walls from poor diet and eliminations.
If vastra dhauti would in effect break up this lining, so that it could be removed by vamana, fasting, etc... then it seems to me that would be a good reason for the practice. It only occurred to me while thinking over that question.
Nowadays mucoid plaque is removed by a combination of herbs, psyllium, bentonite clay, colonic irrigations and modified fasting. It just struck me that perhaps this was indeed the function of vastra dhauti.
For all the juicy details on this fascinating topic, refer to this site: http://www.hps-online.com
You're sure to be amazed...
Edited by sivaram 2005-03-26 6:15 AM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Sivaram,
Thanks for the additional information. I have not heard of mucoid plaque,
but I will read up on it. I still find the thought of swallowing 3 metres of cloth
to be a bit difficult to grasp. Neti causes me enough confusion!
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| I am a ARNP and have witnessed a number of upper and lower colonosopies both in the ER and as a scheduled visit post a day of colonics and I have never seen this mucolloid plaque so I am unsure what it is.
The idea of cleansing makes clear sense to me. I have taken care of souls though who, have dehydrated themselves so badly that they required rehydration and I have seen people who have purged for so long that they have internal hemmorhage and horrible teeth.
I have also taken care of people who have done really strange things with their urethra and none amounted to anything that would be classified as healthy, in any sense of meaning!
If one believes and follows these practices I hope one does it with the base of a knowledgable practitioner
Peace and health,
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
This all makes sense to me! I'm going to stick to my neti pot for the
time being.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
 
| Veggies and bran =  Metres of cloth strips =  | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Taste better, too.  | |
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| Bay Guy - 2005-03-14 9:39 PM
I've been experimenting with sutra neti (the neti pot), which is interesting and
perhaps useful. I'm not dismissing all kriyas, and I know that the Sivanandas
among others recommend some of the more exotic kriyas. I was thumbing through
one of my translations of the HYP last night, and I still think that some
of these practices are not sensible. The one that involves induced vomiting, for example,
means washing stomach acid back over your teeth; it's been documented among
bulimics that this accelerates tooth decay if done very often.
although i have discussed this with our dear brother neel and agree that vamana is not required in my environment, i did practice it when i was at yoga tt in india. i can tell you that you only bring back the luke warm water - you dont go as far as bringing up bile. honestly, i would have refused if that were the case. (ok, i could not have refused - that is a big fat lie! but i would have wanted to refuse  )
jala sutra takes some getting used to, but you would not believe the stuff that comes out of your sinus cavities - i really like it! (freak! ) trust me, i cried, ranted and raved and refused - but i had to do it or i would have failed. my classes were rather strict. i tried saying that my nose was blocked, i tried to pretend i was choking like i was going to die.....i should have received an academy award!! in the end, i accepted it. i surrendered. suddenly, i wasnt gagging and choking and other than the fact that it was really not something i wished to do with an audience - it wasnt bad at all!
i know it isnt for everyone......but neti and jala are great for me. i stopped vamana dhauti as soon as i left india.
incidentally, the one that freaks me out is the one for men, that involves mercury and "your son" 
to each his or her own 
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Whoa! Was someone actually trying that thing with mercury? I read about
it in the commentary I mentioned before, but they at least mentioned that
mercury is TOXIC! Oh yuk! Yuk yuk yuk yuk yuk
But why do you say that you could not have refused to do these things?
I'm glad to learn that vamana is just bringing up warm water. That doesn't
sound as bad.... 
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| Bay Guy - 2005-03-30 12:44 PM
Whoa! Was someone actually trying that thing with mercury? I read about
it in the commentary I mentioned before, but they at least mentioned that
mercury is TOXIC! Oh yuk! Yuk yuk yuk yuk yuk
But why do you say that you could not have refused to do these things?
I'm glad to learn that vamana is just bringing up warm water. That doesn't
sound as bad....
i technically could have refused but i would not have passed that part of the course. if i didnt pass something then i would not have received my tt cert or i would have received it with the equivalent of a "c minus" or "d" instead of an "a" or "b" - of course we were not graded like that - i just found throughout my program that going with the flow worked much better than resisting. in the end, my decision to surrender was extremely beneficial.
vamana really wasnt bad at all - just a humbling experience when you have an audience!
oh, i never saw anyone do the mercury thing but i did study about it!
incidentally, i am working on another tt program from north america - i am so curious as to how they differ! i bet it is like night and day. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Can you tell us a bit more about the course you took?
How long, how was it organized, what did you study?
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| Bay Guy - 2005-03-30 9:45 AM
Can you tell us a bit more about the course you took?
How long, how was it organized, what did you study?
i was in that school for two months and a bit....
the first month:
monday to friday:
430 wake up
(techinically you could wake up later but i need the extra time to bathe, review my notes, write papers, etc)
530 - 730 yoga asanas
800 - 900 breakfast
900 - 1100 elective classes, nap, do homework
1100 - 100 yoga philosophy
100 - 200 lunch
200 - 400 shower, elective classes, nap, homework
400 - 600 yoga asanas
600 - 730 free time unless you took kalari payat (indian martial art)
730 - 830 dinner
fridays - 900 ~ group activity or watch a movie
usually i was in bed and asleep so early - tired, tired, tired!
saturdays
530 - 730 yoga asanas
meals at the same times but the rest of the day is yours
sundays
rest!
completely discouraged (read forbidden) from taking day trips or doing anything strenuous
second month:
monday to friday:
430 wake up
530 - 730 yoga asanas
800 - 900 breakfast
900 - 1100 elective classes, nap, do homework
1100 - 100 yoga philosophy & teaching philosophy
100 - 200 lunch
200 - 400 shower, elective classes, nap, homework
400 - 600 yoga asanas
600 - 730 elective classes, nap, homework
730 - 830 dinner
tues - thurs
830 - 930 trataka
i skipped dinner on these days because i could not do trataka on a full stomach.
saturdays
430 wake up
go to the kitchen and get supplies for cleansing (karma yoga)
530 - 730 yoga asanas & cleansing practice
800 - rice soup (rice and hot water)
total rest until noon!!!!
100 - 200 lunch
kick it in the village or around the school
730 -830 dinner
i went bike riding or took a rickshaw to the closest town for little adventures
i spent weekends working on the papers and homework assignments
all veg meals, outside food extremely frowned upon although i did bring soy protein powder and buy some fruit from local vendors for snacks in my room! i also had some carob bars and protein bars sent in the mail - so it wasnt impossible 
it was a tough gig - of the original group, only two made it to the second month
(we referred to it as "indian survivor )
i hated it at first and never would have gone if i had known what i was in for. i stuck it through to the end and truly believe that it was the best thing i have ever done for myself.
hate is a strong word - let me clarify that it was pretty strict and there were days where i didnt think i could do one more day, days where i wanted to quit, days where the aches and pains were barely tolerable BUT i did it!! that was a huge part of my learning experience. getting over myself and saying "ok, this isnt going to kill me"
honestly, i never knew i had it in me
by the time the course was over, i didnt want to leave  but swamiji encouraged me to go and seek out others masters and practice with them....so i did! i went all the way from south india to the himalayas. did yoga everyday for over four months and took some meditation courses as well. i also did a course with the dalai lama (me and 2000 taiwanese, tibetans and foreigners)- that was super cool! i learned a lot.
karma yoga was minimal - no toilet cleaning!! yeay!! but i could have done it. anatomy is not covered (my only complaint!) but i already had some knowledge and i have been working on that on my own ever since. i am doing a yoga alliance course now as i want to have both the indian and western certifications.
another long post by kira, who is trying to figure out how she will keep up her daily practice AND teach AND take care of dh - all while i go to uni starting this friday... ...wish me luck! | |
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| Kire, can you say where, & name of school?
Thx. Very interesting to hear your experience. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Hi Kira ---
Wow! That actually sounds like fun, sort of, if I could put the rest of my
life on hold for a time.
What is trataka?
I noticed a lot of nap time in your schedule. Was this because of trouble sleeping
or because the rest was simply exhausting?
What were the living arrangements like? Dormotory, cafeteria, or what?
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| sivaram - 2005-03-31 10:35 AM
Kire, can you say where, & name of school?
Thx. Very interesting to hear your experience.
my pleasure! the school is in aranmula, kerala, south india.
http://www.vijnanakalavedi.org/
i should mention that the school was set up by a french woman in the 70's. she wanted to preserve the arts and culture of kerala. they teach languages, arts and yoga. my group was the first in the yoga tt program and i am sure they have done some fine tuning since we were there. | |
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| Bay Guy - 2005-03-31 11:49 AM
Hi Kira ---
Wow! That actually sounds like fun, sort of, if I could put the rest of my
life on hold for a time.
What is trataka?
I noticed a lot of nap time in your schedule. Was this because of trouble sleeping
or because the rest was simply exhausting?
What were the living arrangements like? Dormotory, cafeteria, or what?
Trataka helps concentration of the mind. Here is an article:
http://www.lightbalance.com/articles/trataka.htm
as to nap time - mostly it was wishful thinking!! i had no trouble sleeping once i got used to the critters in my room my days were pretty full but during the second month i definitely needed an after lunch snooze. i idid not always get it but i always wanted it!!
the yoga philiosophy classes got pretty deep and there were a few days where i could have nodded off (of course, i never did!)
my sanskrit classes were pretty tough too and i could have used a nap before or even in lieu of them!! just kidding! but it was tough for me as i already have a head full of english, french and japanese!
accomodations were ok --two to a room with a private bath. the school has about six houses spread out through the village. they are clean and spacious. they try to match you up with someone your age who is in your program.
the school is very professional. they are recognized by the government of kerala. the minister of culture gave me my certificate himself!
one more thing - there are more staff than students! you are very well taken care of and the people become your family and the school a "home away from home".
here is a pic from the outdoor dining hall with a sample of some of the eats!
 (masala dosa dinner.JPG)
Attachments
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 masala dosa dinner.JPG (79KB - 348 downloads)
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| Thanks, Kira,
I'll be in Kerala later this year, and think I'll visit.
The volunteer English teaching program looks interesting too.
Cheers! | |
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| sivaram - 2005-04-01 10:48 AM
Thanks, Kira,
I'll be in Kerala later this year, and think I'll visit.
The volunteer English teaching program looks interesting too.
Cheers!
i didnt have time with my schedule but i would have loved to have done that program! keralans are 99% literate and eager to learn english.....and the children are just so beautiful!
please let me know if you go!! | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Thanks again, Kira! This is all very interesting.
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| What about colonic cleansings? Are these effective at cleaning out the mucoid plaque? I am about to go have one done this month. I am having major digestion issues and I've heard that colonics work wonders for that.
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| I find this thread really interesting. My swami teaches Bihar School of Yoga so touches on the Kriyas from time to time. I am a complete novice here, only just starting Jala Neti which I hope will improve my life-long chronic sinusitis. I can't imagine ever wanting to swallow cloth or insert objects into my urethra however :0, especially having studied anatomy and seen just how delicate epithelial tissue is under the microscope. Still, I can't imagine body peircing to the extent some tribes do it either and despite having body piercings myself so I try to keep an open mind despite the Ew! factor  Fee | |
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| kulkarnn - 2005-01-29 11:04 PM
dear Sannichka:
I wish to give following suggestions with all love. The cleansing techniques you described are NOT necessary in today's world if you follow proper healthy practices, such as proper diet, hygiene, etc. And, they are useless if you do not follow the later. So, make sure that you do the later very well and then only do the former if you are still interested.
Neel Kulkani
www.authenticyoga.org
i agree | |
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| You
know...
i never thought of specific Cleansing techniques in my routine
i just do a combination without thinking,
i do try to keep the benefits in my subscious mind, after reading different articles and books,
I have heard many cleansing stories (Yogi Conversations, you learn so much, just like forums.-lol)
Most Yoga Teachers and Yogis will focus on diet and name some poses/asanas to help each other,
*because each asana/posture/and pose
has special contribution to the body organs and body benefits, in yoga pose references and Some Yoga manuals*
if you cannot find a teacher???,
- try a Yoga Cleansing Retreat, or Workshop they have them all over the place, every season. You can be with famous or Experienced yogis for a weekend or class sessions.
- it depends on your schedule, vacation time, and Money budget
- I usually have to plan in advance, depending on the day job
try
- reading/researching each pose benefit/paragraph, in websites, manuals,
Teachers will not always teach you the pose and benefit at the same time,
- I love Chakra Yoga, Chakra Yoga focuses on Your Energy Centers and Poses to match, this covers, mind, body and soul healing. It involves detox, mediations, affirmations, poses, and cleansing your emotions and body sickness. It begins with the mind, mind and body connection.
you may come across some yoga treasures, or a yoga store,for your situation (online),....
here are some websites, i came across this week,
some for my class, earlier, i bookmarked
the yoga journal has been my reference for years, very useful,
I listed some workshop examples too,
- http://www.healthandyoga.com/html/clean.html
- http://www.yogajournal.com/
- http://sattvahealing.com/
- http://www.7centers.com/Healingretreats.html
- http://www.sacredcenters.com/chakrayoga.html
- http://www.chakrayoga.com/
- http://www.yogawiz.com/
gotta go, while it is early and not 100 degrees outside-lol,
good luck Yogi!!
Universal Love
and
Namaste'
Edited by DrRevYogi 2007-06-01 10:06 AM
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| http://www.sakthifoundation.org/panchabhoota-5.htm | |
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| Our system is constantly cleaning itself, if we let it do so, and if we do not contaminate it too much.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | .......may I further add that basic rest and water is most effecient. Although, I do like to get away in the forest for several days...it's amazing how cleansing that can be, all by itself. I call it being able to let it all go. Getting out of ones usual habitat is quite cleansing in itself as well. | |
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