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| I occasionally have "out-of-body experiences" (OBE's). This isn't anything new for me, and, from what I've read on this phenomenon, my own experiences with this pale compared to what others report. Normally I experience this just as I'm about to fall asleep... and I can choose to enhance the experience or to ignore it, let it go and just go to sleep. (And I realise that, to those who have no experience with this, or knowledge about it - or belief in it, for that matter - this may sound like a bunch of hooey. I would have thought so myself until I found out what was happening to me several years ago.) And while my experiences with this are inherently spiritual, I suppose - they also seem very temporal, compared with what I've experienced lately - namely that I have been having these experiences during savasana - though only if I can get into a thoroughly relaxed state. The OBE's that I have through savasana tend to be... different. More "spiritual", though I feel that is an inadequate word to describe what I go through. Sometimes I feel the presence of loved ones who have passed on; sometimes I just feel an overwhelming love that I feel is closeness with God. I can hardly believe that I'm posting this here, as I have shared this part of my life with very, very few people. But since it has been occurring during savasana, I can't help but wonder if there are others here who have had similar experiences, through yoga or meditation. I'm hesitant to speak of more details because this is very sacred to me... and frankly I'm a little concerned that I'll be written off as a lunatic - LOL. Anyway, that's my story - am I alone in this?
Namaste, Echo | |
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| Well as the detachment (from the physical body) happens during deep relaxation, this is in essence astral projection of some form or other. A lot of new age groups, etc... pursue this a lot but from the standpoint of yoga there probably isn't anything particularly useful coming out of it (sorry to be blunt),
Regards. | |
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| I would venture to say that the experiences are different because you're less conscious as you're falling asleep (obviously). Your savasana is a much more *aware* relaxation, so you'll be more cognizant of your travels and of your sensitivity to the more ethereal parts of our world.
There are many different types of meditation, and different traditions approach them different ways. Some of them concoct an imaginary world, some visualize the word OM placed in different parts of the body, some focus on a pleasant memory, some focus on the chakras, or the breath, or simply being in the body without distraction. Dr. Dean Ornish suggests that you turn your attention inside, and ask one of your organs (i.e. your heart) what its name is, how it feels, what it wants, etc. One of my great teachers did a meditation with us where we were to picture ourselves walking down a long road, either alone or with company. I was surprised to find myself accompanied by two dogs that had been in my life and since passed on! Was it my imagination, or was I being visited by their friendly spirits? I don't know, and don't care. It gave me moving and comforting experience that didn't require analysis.
No one way is right for every person, and neither is there one way that will work for someone his or her entire life. Circumstances change, needs change, views change. For as many different points of view exist, there are just as many people to stamp their feet and insist that their way is the only right way and everyone else is wrong. This philosophy seems to be pretty rampant even on these boards, though less so here than out in the rest of the world.
If these experiences are meaningful and rewarding to you, hang on and get all you can out of them! Your yoga practice can only enhance your awareness and clarity on the subject. | |
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| belovedofthegod - 2005-05-09 1:15 PM Well as the detachment (from the physical body) happens during deep relaxation, this is in essence astral projection of some form or other. A lot of new age groups, etc... pursue this a lot but from the standpoint of yoga there probably isn't anything particularly useful coming out of it (sorry to be blunt), Regards. Hmmm... well, "useful" is a point-of-view, isn't it? It isn't useful in the sense that my hamstrings don't really benefit from it, (LOL!) but I feel that my soul does. I think that is part of niyama, don't you? BTW, "astral projection" is just another term for OBE - it describes basically the same phenomena. Also I'd like to add that I don't belong to any "new age group"... I'm a Catholic (I suppose that makes me a member of a fairl "old age group" - ROFL!  ) Namaste!
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| jeansyoga - Was it my imagination, or was I being visited by their friendly spirits? I don't know, and don't care. It gave me moving and comforting experience that didn't require analysis. YES! EXACTLY!!!! I don't know precisely what happens during these experiences, be it before sleep or during savasana - and I suspect that I will not find the answer to that question in this life - but it exhilarates my spirit, and that's what truly matters to me. I just wondered if others have had similar experiences, and it seems the answer to that is yes | |
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| Grounded in total reality as I am, I have to believe that OBEs are simply the individual's mind creating the vision--like a dream. Empress Echo - 2005-05-09 1:49 PM I just wondered if others have had similar experiences, and it seems the answer to that is yes | |
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| Dear Echo,
"Hmmm... well, "useful" is a point-of-view, isn't it? It isn't useful in the sense that my hamstrings don't really benefit from it, (LOL!) but I feel that my soul does. I think that is part of niyama, don't you?"
Sorry, when I mean yoga I don't mean anything loosely to do with hamstrings (no pun intended). Useful is indeed a point-of-view and I did say from "the standpoint of yoga".
The point is that in yoga, in general, the purpose is to recognize the Absolute. Yoga is a path of purification in so much as one tries to polish the mind so as to bring about recognition. Astral projection create more latent impressions in addition to the ones you already have from the physical realm; it also creates additional attachments. This makes the purpose of realizing the Absolute harder.
It may feel different, but from a yoga understanding of spirituality there is really very little difference between an astral experience and a physical one, there is nothing useful spiritually in astral realms. Of course yoga is only one way of looking at spiritually, you don't neccesarily have to subsribe to its ideals.
"BTW, "astral projection" is just another term for OBE - it describes basically the same phenomena."
Yes, but sometimes distinctions are made - I am not too familiar with them. I assume in your case it is astral projection,
Dear Bruce,
"Grounded in total reality as I am, I have to believe that OBEs are simply the individual's mind creating the vision--like a dream."
In "total reality", what is it that creates the vision?
Regards. | |
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| "In "total reality", what is it that creates the vision?" I think it's brain synapses firing resulting in internal visions based on the inputs one has accumulated.
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| Dear Bruce,
"I think it's brain synapses firing resulting in internal visions based on the inputs one has accumulated."
Is a dream also not caused by brain synapses firing resulting in internal visions based on the inputs one has accumulated (inputs in the subconcious mind)?
Regards. | |
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| In recognizing the Absolute, don't we do this first through fully becoming aware of the Self?
If that is true, then could not observing one's reaction (emotional, physical) to such an experience be a useful tool towards self-realization?
Aren't dreams sometimes full of messages from your subconscious, to help you better understand your world in a conscious state? | |
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| Just wanted to pop into this thread to say I'm not ignoring your replies - it's just that I've now got so many thoughts flying around my pea-brain that I've got to gather them together before I can make a semi-intelligent reply! LOL  Until later...
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Bruce - 2005-05-09 3:38 PM
Grounded in total reality as I am, I have to believe that OBEs are simply the individual's mind creating the vision--like a dream. Empress Echo - 2005-05-09 1:49 PM I just wondered if others have had similar experiences, and it seems the answer to that is yes
Well, Brucebhai, after hanging out in Buddhist Temples and listening to Americans explain this this crap to Lama's...I'm with ya on this one!!! My suggestion Echo is that you better get yourself back into your body...especially if you aren't used to traveling in *certain realms*. The mind is very powerful and loves to play trickery and illusions....this statement does not apply to certain individuals that have been properly trained in these types of areas...and there are very few of us humans that are granted such capabilities. The ones that are don't talk about it as it is very sacred. | |
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| Dear jeansyoga,
"If that is true, then could not observing one's reaction (emotional, physical) to such an experience be a useful tool towards self-realization?"
Yes of course, but not any more so than in the physical world - you have the whole day to observe your reaction if you really want to. Furthermore, in such experiences people are in great enjoyment usually and so they get overwhelmed in the experience. You don't have to create new events to observe during yoga practice, there are enough events as it is.
"Aren't dreams sometimes full of messages from your subconscious, to help you better understand your world in a conscious state?"
They are, but astral projection is not exactly a dream and furthermore you have the whole night to dream. Why use yoga practice to create something like a dream?
In Vajrayana Buddhism they practice dream yoga, which some may be interested in. For extremely serious practice one needs guidance from a real Lama but I have attached a pdf (which I found on a site that I don't remember) which is a mini-book by Namkhai Norbu on some dream yoga practice,
Regards. | |
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| Dear jeansyoga,
"If that is true, then could not observing one's reaction (emotional, physical) to such an experience be a useful tool towards self-realization?"
Yes of course, but not any more so than in the physical world - you have the whole day to observe your reaction if you really want to. Furthermore, in such experiences people are in great enjoyment usually and so they get overwhelmed in the experience. You don't have to create new events to observe during yoga practice, there are enough events as it is.
"Aren't dreams sometimes full of messages from your subconscious, to help you better understand your world in a conscious state?"
They are, but astral projection is not exactly a dream and furthermore you have the whole night to dream. Why use yoga practice to create something like a dream?
(Unless you are specifically trained in the contemplations that go around a practice such as Buddhist or Daoist dream yoga, etc..)
Regards. | |
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| OBE's are mental masturbation. Nothing to do with God. God is right here, right now. You don't need to leave your body to experience God.
Edited by Bodhisattva 2005-05-11 6:31 AM
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| Empress Echo - I can hardly believe that I'm posting this here, as I have shared this part of my life with very, very few people. But since it has been occurring during savasana, I can't help but wonder if there are others here who have had similar experiences, through yoga or meditation. I'm hesitant to speak of more details because this is very sacred to me... and frankly I'm a little concerned that I'll be written off as a lunatic - LOL. I'm beginning to regret mentioning this at all... here I am, actually quoting myself, which is a new one on me... Cyndi - My suggestion Echo is that you better get yourself back into your body...especially if you aren't used to traveling in *certain realms*. The mind is very powerful and loves to play trickery and illusions....this statement does not apply to certain individuals that have been properly trained in these types of areas...and there are very few of us humans that are granted such capabilities. The ones that are don't talk about it as it is very sacred. Cyndi, please see my own quote above. I chose to speak of this because I felt others might share my experiences, and they are so valuable to me that I think they are worth sharing. Why not speak of it? Probably because it is not taken seriously by a lot of people, and because I DO consider it sacred (again, see my post above) I don't care for my experiences to be dismissed as imagination, dabbling, or irreverance, which is why I was hesitant to mention it, and why I now regret it. You assume that I have little experience with this when that is not true at all, and frankly I'm a little offended by you referring to "listening to Americans explain this this crap to Lama's" - and then you say that people don't talk about it because it's sacred?! This is probably exactly why others don't talk about it much - because it's written off by those who don't know. And how can you say what realms I am used to or not? Don't deride me or my experiences because I am an American. Is this something reserved for only Buddhist non-Americans? Not by any means! Bodhisattva - OBE's are mental masturbation. Nothing to do with God. God is right here, right now. You don't need to leave your body to experience God. I disagree, and find this offensive. I agree that God is here and now - but I believe that there are times and circumstances when we are closer to Him. I never said that I ONLY experienced God at these times. Once again, I regret bringing this up at all, and am quite disappointed. Perhaps it was foolish of me to expect others to understand, as it is a rather rare phenomenon, but I did expect some further respect for my experiences. Considering that this is, in general, a more spiritual community than some others (I would not mention this on the quit smoking forum I belong to!) I suppose I expected a much different response. I do respect your opinions - especially you Bruce, for honestly expressing your perspective on this subject without deriding mine. I wish there were more respect such as this amongst all of us. | |
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| Well Bodhisattva, that is a very blunt way to put it. As someone else I think stated in this thread, I think OBEs and other such phenomena are considered to be distractions - pretty lights and music of the brain in a way - that fascinate us like children at a fair and pull us away from the disciplined path. Generally speaking, I think most traditions would warn against getting too caught up in them. OTOH, like dreams, they can be very useful and help guide the practitioner on their path if (like the mirrors we love to hate!) they are used as tools and guides, not as a goal in and of themselves.
Echo - it is great that you are able to look at this gift as something precious and not terrifying, as some would. If you can look at them objectively and both enjoy them for what they are and perhaps use some simple interpretations, it would be great. | |
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC |
Edited by Cyndi 2005-05-11 11:44 AM
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Echo,
I'm sorry you took offense to my suggestion...however, I do not take this OBE thing very lightly. This is a serious problem in America (and I'm sure other places, but right now I am in America and we are Americans dealing with these issues) with people *dabbling* in areas that they have no business in. Having that said, if you are truly having an OBE experience, you really should be honest with yourself and seek a person who is qualified in either helping you figure out exactly what you are experiencing, or train you in how to take your body into these higher realms, as it can be very dangerous and can upset the balance of your life. I am speaking from experience and rather than get into personal details (that really should hashed over with a qualified experienced Guru), I am advising you to seek an authentic source for your questions, rather than from possible *unqualified* persons on an internet forum. If you want to continue to discuss the glamour of an OBE and if your seeking some type of confirmation and want to do it on an open forum, that's fine, but coming from a person that has actually experienced it, I would recommend that you be very cautious about who you talk to and who you seek out to help you gain an authentic *insightful* understanding of exactly what an OBE is.
Also, Dreams and OBE's are 2 totally different subjects.
P.S. For the record, if you think I'm hard on *Americans* and your taking offense to my speaking directly to the American mindset.....you should ask my husband how hard I am on Indians and Nepalis - Human ignorance and error is everywhere. Although, I must say, most Indians and Nepalis are so much more open to dealing with themselves than others..maybe because of the culture and how deep they like to explore. They don't seem to be as superficial and phony and are more accepting of their mistakes and stupid actions. Oh well, I thought you all would like to know that.
Edited by Cyndi 2005-05-11 12:06 PM
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| Sorry Empress Echo, I didn't mean to be offensive. It's basically about what you're seeking. If it's God then OBE's are the wrong direction. You're not a lunatic, OBE's have their own meaning and place. OBE's are not rare phenomenon, quite usual in the realm of creation You know I just wanted to make my point of view clear. I've been stepped into samadhi with God, believe it or not and one thing I'm pretty sure about is that this reality is beyond OBE's and stuff like that. Basically reality of oneness with God is totally beyond comprehension. OBE's can help in the realization of Self (which is different than God) and you can also experience oneness with God out of body, but the actual process of God-realization/complete enlightenment is where you're body, mind, spirit and soul become completely one. It's called receiving the heavenly body.
Is it what you experience in savasana that you actually leave your body or do you just feel separate from the body? You know these can be two different things.
Edited by Bodhisattva 2005-05-11 12:38 PM
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| Echo,
"Once again, I regret bringing this up at all, and am quite disappointed. Perhaps it was foolish of me to expect others to understand, as it is a rather rare phenomenon, but I did expect some further respect for my experiences. Considering that this is, in general, a more spiritual community than some others (I would not mention this on the quit smoking forum I belong to!) I suppose I expected a much different response. "
I feel I was as polite as possible and gave you several reasons why such a practice is a waste of time from a yoga perspective. Considering you associate yoga with hamstrings, I take it you do not mean the same thing as I do when you say yoga; the goal of yoga according to tradition is the realization or recognition of the Absolute. In so much as this goal is concerned, astral projection is useless, it doesn't matter how rare it is. The Buddha also has warned against wasting time in seeking astral other realms because they are just a more subtle form of craving and detract from the true goal.
Also, as I said before, yoga doesn't have a monopoly on spirituality so you don't have to subscribe to its position,
Regards. | |
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| My ancestry includes a lot of Cornish and Scots lines which may explain why I and some of my cousins are 'fey'. Amongst other odd happenings, I've experienced this sense of journeying without my body but fought not to do it as I felt it was in some way dangerous without having an experienced guide (an instinct thing). As this has happened to me simply daydreaming, I can see how it may happen when trying to meditate. As I understand it, though, meditation is meant to be more about going inward to be at one with the One rather than an outward experience. Views?
Fee | |
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| Ugh, I truly did not mean to make this into a big ado... I just wondered if others here had similar experiences. I'm not seeking advice here or asking questions - I simply stated that I have these experiences, and thought perhaps others of you did as well and would like to discuss them. I do not seek God through OBE's, but sometimes I sense Him, just as I sometimes sense Him in other situations, such as during prayer, or simply at random moments. There are times when I am closer to God, and times when I am further away. They don't necessarily have to do with astral travel. My purpose in exploring OBE's began because I was experiencing them without knowing what they were - and I was frightened. After I learned more, I came to look forward to them. I do not seek God in them - I simply seek to learn through exploration of another realm of the soul, and learning, in general, is important to me as a person. I do not take this lightly. My OBE's are different at different times. What I experience on the verge of sleep is not the same as what I feel during savasana. I do not leave my body during savasana, but generally "hover" - it's hard to describe. I feel that my soul is more "open" and maybe that's why I feel closer to God at those times, I don't know. I think that different cultures and religious traditions have varying views on OBE's, and I do try to respect those views, and learn from them. But again, I just brought it up here to perhaps compare experiences. Beloved, I don't "associate yoga with hamstrings"... LOL That was me being trite. I think we all agree that there are many aspects to "yoga". I was just trying to explain why my OBE experience was important to me in a certain way that had nothing to do with physicality - not that it had nothing to do with yoga. Does that make sense? I will mention though that I am relatively new to yoga, having only practised for a couple of years - and only "seriously" for half a year, (compared with my OBE experiences, which have gone on since I was a child) and while I began my yoga practice with exercise in mind, I have since learned - and continue to learn daily - that it is so much more than that. So please don't take my hamstrings comment seriously! I apologize for being flippant. Also, just for the record, I am not a Buddhist, though I am certainly interested in his teachings, just as I am interested in the teachings of Muhammad and Lao Tze, though I am a follower of Christ and am a Catholic - and I believe that God is not just "out there" but within all of us, so that when we look at the "self" we are looking at God as well. But that's just my opinion, and I respect yours. (BTW, in college my major was anthropology and minor was religion.) Okay, I'm going to shut up now (I do have this habit of running off at the mouth, and one of the things I'm trying to learn in recent days is silence, ironically!) I would just like to end my little diatribe with one of my favourite quotes: "As soon as a man is fully disposed to be alone with God, he is alone with God no matter where he may be; in the country, the monastery, the woods, or the city. The lightning flashes from East to West, illuminating the whole horizon and striking where it pleases and at the same instant the infinite liberty of God flashes in the depths of that man's soul, and he is illumined. At that moment he sees that though he seems to be in the middle of his journey, he has already arrived at the end. For the life of Grace on earth is the beginning of the life of Glory. Although he is a traveler in time, he has opened his eyes for a moment in eternity." - Thomas Merton Namaste, Echo | |
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| Dear Echo,
I'm not complaining or telling you its bad. I'm just telling you that from a yoga perspective, it has nothing to do with spirituality. Since this is a yoga forum, I thought it appropriate to say that.
(The Buddhist reference was just if someone was interested in Dream Yoga)
Regards.
Edited by belovedofthegod 2005-05-12 2:52 AM
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| Hey, "no harm, no foul" as they say Hugs, Echo | |
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| "Indians and Nepalis are so much more open to dealing with themselves than others..maybe because of the culture and how deep they like to explore. They don't seem to be as superficial and phony and are more accepting of their mistakes and stupid actions."
Maybe Americans are so afraid to admit mistakes because so many people in America are so judgemental! Nobody seems to be able to just allow and respect another's path without telling them how wrong they are about it. That tends to make everybody just a wee bit defensive about what they say and do.
Then again, the need to judge and correct other people's behavior may be a step on another person's path, so we can't judge that either. Just accept everyone's opinion as just that - their opinion. Take what is meaningful to you at this time, and leave the rest. | |
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| Jeans you are right! But when 1 user start offending every other user in the forum of course there is much more to what you said 
I deal with lot of foreigners all around the world when it comes to business.. What I see in Americans/Europeans is that they are ready to complain about everything.. Even for nothing.. they find something to complain about all the time.. May be its due to their lifestyle.. People living in this part of the world cannot complain about every simple thing as they have lot more serious things in life to worry about..Its just "ok.. can deal with this" or "never mind" attitude… I think that’s the difference.. I see a good side to this.. in this way its very less presure in life., Asians are more calm and tolerable people compared to west people (except me I think :
Edited by Thushara 2005-05-12 11:59 PM
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Edited by Thushara 2005-05-13 12:07 AM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Thushara - 2005-05-12 11:56 PM
I deal with lot of foreigners all around the world when it comes to business.. What I see in Americans/Europeans is that they are ready to complain about everything.. Even for nothing.. they find something to complain about all the time.. May be its due to their lifestyle.. People living in this part of the world cannot complain about every simple thing as they have lot more serious things in life to worry about..Its just "ok.. can deal with this" or "never mind" attitude… I think that’s the difference.. I see a good side to this.. in this way its very less presure in life., Asians are more calm and tolerable people compared to west people (except me I think :
Thushara,
It's really not about Asians and Westerner's anymore. It is all about environment, lifestyle and habits. One day, when your country gets to a point where you are so technically advanced...you will see the change in how people act. It is already starting. You ask any Indian or Asian about the Western lifestyle and how they are being affected by this lifestyle. When you loose your nature, and your simplicity, you will loose your mind and your way of life too!! That to me is what I have observed here in America. I live not too far from the Cherokee Indian Reservation. When you visit this area and observe these people, they live a very simple life. The younger ones are struggling in trying to live outside of their culture and watching the technology encroach their way of life is heartbreaking...its even heartbreaking for me because I am a naturalist too and want to live my simple life. I despise people that come to the countryside and do the things they do to nature and the environment. I also despise the city because there is no fresh water anymore, creeks and rivers are polluted, and the noise and rumble of the earth shaking is so scary. I may complain, but my complaints are at least justified by watching ignorant humans destroy themselves and the planet. | |
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| May be.. But I think they complain coz their expectations are higher than us..maybe coz they have better living conditions than some of the Asian countiries.. I dont know.. You must be knowing better...
anyway Im different and Im not so tolerant like other Asians ... ..
So ... Shape up or Ship out ...
Edited by Thushara 2005-05-13 9:41 AM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Thushara, you are right about people in the US complaining too easily.
(I don't know how things are in Sri Lanka, but I will take your word for it.)
In this country, the standard of living is, dare I say, absurdly high and the
expectations match. Serve someone a piece of fruit with a blemish on it,
and they'll send it back for one that it perfect. Most of us have little comprehension
of privation or of just how good we have things here.
My pet peeve of the month is the rate of energy consumption in the US.
Worldwide, energy consumption in 2003 was about 12 terawatts (12 trillion watts).
That same year, the US consumed 3 terawatts, or 1/4 of the world's energy.
The US amounts to just 5% of the world's population. We also account
for 25% or more of the world's CO_2 emissions. And for the most part, it appears
to me that people here don't give a flying f*ck about this imbalance...just look
at the vehicles people drive here.
Oh, ooppps, I'm late for a meeting....
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| Hey now, some of us do the best we can. There's a small minority of people who care! | |
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| Well, on a brighter note, please know that there is a whole generation of architects and designers about to change the world by incorporating green design into their structures! That means addressing not only energy consumption, water conservation/reuse systems, improved air quality, and materials and dyes that contribute to an open life cycle rather than closed, but focusing on the ways people interact and the changing needs based on technology. technoloby doesn't have to be a bad thing - but we can adjust the way we react to it. There are a lot of really really passionate people working on these thigns right now - but we need help! We need creative people to design products that are similar in appearance and function to current products, to market them to the general public and increase awareness of their existence, and to purchase them. We need clients who insist on projects that are as sustainable as possible, and we need the LEED critera (a sustainable architecture/interior certification) to disregard its big-industry connections. If you get a chance, take a look at Australia. They're AWESOME when it comes to the stringent criteria for getting a building LEED-certified, and are definitely on the leading edge of water conservation and reuse. Currently there are more things that we can do system-wise. The furniture and materials aren't quite there - but materials more than furniture. But rest assured, we're working on it! Check out William McDonough and his Cradle to Cradle Philosophy - he's fabulous! It's on the way, trust me. | |
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| I suspect the reason may be even simpler than that. Once a country is monied, leisure time increases. That is, folk have the time to whinge!
Fee
Edited by Orbilia 2005-05-13 11:07 AM
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Expert Yogi
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Lora, I appreciate what your trying to say and I see this in major cities everywhere with the new buildings. However, the architects and the greenspace theory is a little bit too late. Trees are being cut down everywhere and old growth forests are being destroyed...thousands of acres every day on the planet. There is no technology that is going to be able to replace this...humans cannot manufacture the rainforest and nature...sorry. They say the Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions. This is not enough for what we are taking from the earth every day. People are going to have to wake up and change their lifestyles and if they don't...their lifestyles may just change anyway without a choice in the not to distant future because we are on the verge of loosing sooo much. The clock is ticking away...tick, tick, tick, tick | |
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| Of course we can't replace rainforests...but we CAN specify only forest stewardship council approved wood, or reclaimed wood from previous structures. And, it is possible to get some of the rarer woods from either of the above sources. Of course we can't undo what's already been done, but it's frustrating to me to see people lament what's already happened rather than be encouraged by the actions that people ARE taking. I'm not pegging you specifically on that - I see a lot of it - and it seems like such a waste. I just wish people would focus that energy on designing more attractive products based on sustainable principles.
As designers coming out of school, my classmates and I are in a great position to give the clients sustainable design whether they realize it or not! There are clients out there who DO currently insist on building this way, but many look simply at the bottom line. This isn't wrong, necessarily, because they're in business to make a profit - it's our job (the designer/architect) to educate them on the benefits to them to get them to buy in.
Right now a lot of the furniture that is being produced sustainably is, frankly, not that attractive. Or if it's not ugly, it's done in an Asian style - great if that's the look you're going for - not so great if you're doing any other project. Clients and designers aren't really willing to sacrifice the aesthetics of a project. Aside from that, many of the manufacturers are more than happy to produce a piece based on sustainable specifications - but it's custom and therefore costs quite a bit more. It's the old catch-22: it's specified less because of the higher cost, but the cost won't come down until it's specified more. ARGH! But just as the damage didn't happen overnight, the problem can't be fixed overnight.
Just out of curiousity, how sustainable are any of your homes? Are you, or have you taken, any steps to increase it's environmental friendliness? If you haven't, what has been the deciding factor (time, money, lack of resources, etc.)? What about your workplaces? | |
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| Uh...  I'm hesitant to bring this up... but weren't we discussing astral travel/OBE's and the like? Then again, that didn't seem to be going so well! LOL! Carry on with the rainforest...! 
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Expert Yogi
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| Lora - our house was a show home about 20 years ago with an R2000 rating. We could probably update some features but it has great passive solar heat so that in the winter if it is sunny (ok, not often here on the coast!) I come in and wonder "who the heck left the heat on?!?" Our heating bills are lower than they were in our old house which was half the size, and of course prices have risen in the past 8 years. We save a ton on hot water since we have a hot tub  One day I'll do a photo like Bruce's - just haven't got around to it yet
But my proudest "green" thing right now is a daughter who is up in the BC interior planting trees. It is hard, hard work but she is apparently doing well and hoping to become a "highballer" who plants so many trees each day she'll come home with her suitcase full o' cash. She has already (in her first few days) surpassed her boyfriend's best day. Tough cookie! I'm so proud of her | |
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| i am trying to compost my raw garbage (on my veranda, in the city  ). i keep a full bottle of water in the toilet tank so that it doesnt require so much water to fill the tank.....not much huh! i dont have a car, clothes dryer or air conditioner......ok we have one but i have never turned it on (husband won it in a bet with his best friend  )
i want to do a lot more! my next yoga mats for my classes will be pvc free......suggestions welcome!
glenda,
you must have raised one tough chickie because that is one of the hardest jobs in the world!!
sorry empress echo...
it seems your discussion has been hijacked. i am afraid that my only OBE was years ago - after drinking a dodgy lassi in thailand (never again) and that doesnt count now does it.
it seems as though you are opening up a little socially, (YEAY!) any chance you are feeling more confident about social situations off the net? | |
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Expert Yogi
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| Kira - our studio has a worm composting bin IN the kitchen! It fits under the sink in a smallish cupboard and you can't even tell it is there unless the worm-tending yogini takes the bin out to add compost. The biggest "problem" is people leaving too many fruit peels etc. in the "to be composted" bin so there are occasionally fruit flies around that. I am very curious about it and keep thinking I should get one but I do expend most of my nurturing energy at work and on my students and am not doing great on tending to much else. My garden looks like a jungle and my few houseplants barely survive(except for the d*mn poinsettia DH brough home at Christmas which seemingly will not die - maybe I should send it to one of the Bikramites to have trouble keeping plants alive n their studios...).
I am very keen to hear from my daughter again soon. She said it was indeed hard but that she has worked that hard before so it was actually not as difficult as she thought it would be. Her previous BF was an organic farmer so she has spent many days hauling compost, turning soil and planting seedlings so that experience has served her well. Anyway, I hope she calls this weekend so I can hear about what it is like after those first few honeymoon days are over. They are also not in camp yet and staying at a local college dorm so the after work hours life is pretty cushy So this is one place she will be grateful for her dad's genetic background - not little and delicate (okay, wimpy...) like mom but 5'11", big-boned (she says "sturdy" is the word that describes her best. Think female rower ...) and strong as heck. But the black flies are NASTY! | |
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| easternsun - 2005-05-14 5:21 AM sorry empress echo... it seems your discussion has been hijacked. i am afraid that my only OBE was years ago - after drinking a dodgy lassi in thailand (never again ) and that doesnt count now does it. it seems as though you are opening up a little socially, (YEAY! ) any chance you are feeling more confident about social situations off the net? LOL - No problem, really! You'll find I'm quite easygoing in most cases. It's funny - I am much more social on the web, but then, I don't have to actually "face" you folks, you know? It's hard to describe. However, I think it IS helping me in the "real" world as well - my therapist & I had a good talk about that yesterday, that my interaction here does make me more confident about interacting with others. Also if you met me face to face, you'd probably never know that I'm agoraphobic - I keep it pretty well hidden, unless a major panic attack hits. If I'm put into a social situation that I can't avoid, I'll talk and smile and pretend I'm just fine, but the entire time it's an internal battle not to flee. Sometimes I win & sometimes I lose... Yoga is helping too, improving my confidence & giving me a peace that I'd not previously known Thank you for asking about it! That's very kind! Hugs, Echo | |
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Location: A Blue State | LoraB - 2005-05-13 11:04 AM
Well, on a brighter note, please know that there is a whole generation of architects and designers about to change the world by incorporating green design into their structures! That means addressing not only energy consumption, water conservation/reuse systems, improved air quality, and materials and dyes that contribute to an open life cycle rather than closed, but focusing on the ways people interact and the changing needs based on technology.
In fact, buildings consume 39% of the energy used in the US. Making them more energy
efficient would go a long way toward reducing our energy consumption and the corresponding
CO_2 emissions.....
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| glenda - how is your kidlet? still all honeymoon or has it progressed to the real deal? tree planting is tough stuff!
i had to add this link because it is just one of those things that i see everyday that has me shaking my head and laughing....
At a fashion show to be held in June at the Aichi Expo, don't expect to see stick-thin women walking down the runway in the season's most outlandish styles. Instead, the models gracing the catwalk will be business leaders such as Toyota Motor Corp. Chairman Hiroshi Okuda showcasing the latest in lightweight office wear.
The idea is the brainchild of Environment Minister Yuriko Koike and is intended to draw attention to government efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi recently announced that from June, government officials will ditch their jackets and ties so that air conditioners in their offices can be turned down to save energy. Koike has asked business leaders to follow suit.
read the whole article here:
http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200504230130.html
Edited by easternsun 2005-06-03 9:46 AM
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Expert Yogi
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| Kira - I just talked to her last night and she is doing well. Her top day was 2160 trees, which is unheard of for a first time planter. The "highballers" who have been doing it for years do upwards of 3000 trees per day. At 10.5 cents a tree, that is good money. She has seen a moose and the other day had to walk out because there was a "small" cougar on her piece of land. The foreman had to come and chase it away with an air horn. Eek! She is bitten badly by black flies and mosquitoes, has a sore wrist and is scratched up by the brush but says she feels like a "warrior" - what a great way for a strong young woman to feel, eh? We're pretty proud of her
I love the article about the clothes! I hate going into stores that are so cold you need a jacket in the middle of summer. It really doesn't get hot enough here to need air conditioning, as you know. One or two days a year a couple of fans are nice but that's about it. We all need to work on this, I think. | |
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This may sound crazy, but...