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| I am on a private, closed list of Catholics and somone was chatting about weight loss for Yoga, the video and how great it is. at least 3 of us have it as it was cheap on one spirit a while back. I think its a good beginner tape.
Anyway, someone said, Oh, dont do yoga, the word yogi is a god in that practice and he is satan. Whoa! Now i studied religions in anthropology grad school a while back and dont like this kind of talk.
So what do you think? I am not a very good student of yoga, but i bet this is false, isn't it?
Please direct me to some links that might tactfully address this. I dont want to get into a shouting match with these folks and unsub the list, but this seems narrow minded nad ignorant.
Moonmoma  | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Moonmama,
What do you think, in your heart???
If you want to learn about yoga philosophies, go back and do a search on this forum and read some of our discussions about Christians practicing Yoga and the other topics we have discussed related to Christianity and Yoga.
Besides, you answered your own question when you said you didn't like this kind of talk. If that is true and you really don't like it, you shouldn't waste your time hanging around those kinds of people and that kind of talk...probably best to unsub...you will never be able to win an argument with these kinds of people and its not worth trying.
Anyway, the yoga practice is a very personal one. If you are going to practice yoga and practice it correctly, then you will have to rely on your own mind, not someone else's. Practicing Yoga for weight loss from a video is like going on a binge diet. But, if you are fortunate, your practice may end up being a stepping stone for you, possibly leading you into something greater later on. Best wishes and good luck to you.
Cyndi
Edited by Cyndi 2006-01-11 7:16 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
  
| Wow - sounds like those catholics have turned a bit toward the holy-roller fundamentalist side... I have had devout catholics in my class and we have devout catholics on this board. None of them have concerns about yoga. Yes, it can be (but doesn't have to be) a spiritual practice. But yogis have been telling us forever that it is NOT a religion and that we can be better participants in our own relgion through the practice of yoga. I'll leave the rest of the explaining to others  Enjoy your yoga! | |
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Thanks for your response. You may have misunderstood me when I mentioned that I own that video Yoga for weight loss. I do, but not to lose weight but becasue it was nearly free from one spirit a few years ago when i wanted a video with the sun salutation on it. I'm really still a novice, but have been practicing yoga under various teachers since about 2000. I'm really thin. In fact, I just gained some weight and it was a great source of rejoicing for me. I have celiac disease and have had lots of health problems due to this including weight loss, so I'm not looking to lose wiehgt. 
I am looking for some help addressing these statements that are being given out as fact. I would really appreciate it if anyone can direct me to a source. I want to stay on this list where this discusson began, but if i am going, I am going out with a bang!  | |
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| Yoga means union, derived from the root word 'yuj' which means to join, yoke, to concentrate ones attention on. This union can be taken as union with god. A Yogi is one who seeks after union with god (Ishwara). Patanjali describes yoga as the stilling of the fluctuations of the mind.
Does any of this sound satanic?
Personally I don't believe in satan, I suppose the closest thing to satan in yoga philosophy that I know of is Avidya (Ignorance). In the Yoga sutras of Patanjali there isn't any mention of Satan or demons. Yoga is very much an inner journey and one needs to listen very quietly to their head and their heart. One needs to discriminate truth from falsehood to open into a wider more embracing truth.
Even if there is a god called Yogi one can practice yoga and not be worshipping satan. Yoga is between yourself and God. Personally I agree with cyndi, I wouldn't bother arguing with this person.
Perhaps Neel can direct you to the answers you seek. | |
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| So I am trying very hard to not to feel the way I feel toward the person who made this statement about yogi being another term for Satan. I can't pity her ignorance. I only see judgement in the statements she made. This is the problem for me: me judging her judging me.  | |
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| Allow yourself to feel the way you do but examine why her statements bother you. Does it bring up doubt in your mind about yoga? Are you afraid that she could be right and that you have inadvertantly been worshipping the devil and that you may have to give up something which brings you great relief? If you are secure in your convictions then her opinions should not affect your state of mind. I have found myself many a times bothered by anothers opinion but know at the root of my discontent is an issue I haven't faced within and it is usually doubt about my own beliefs. | |
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| No, it bothers me because I think she judges me to be less holy than she since I practice yoga and she isso sure it is a path to Satan. | |
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| You know in your heart what is the truth, you needn't convince another of it. No matter what 'evidence' you amount I suspect she will still stand by her convictions. So inform her if you feel you must but don't be too attached to the result.
Namaste | |
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| It's my feelings of unworthiness cropping up. At least at this stage of my life I can finally recognize what it is and face it. | |
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| Monmona:
You caring for her statement or judgement will make sense only if: a) you respect her more than yourself OR b) you think she knows better than you.
If a) and b) are not true, you should NOT care for her statement. You still should listen to her, while not caring about her.
There is a rain in Virginia today. Do you care about it?
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| At best yoga will bring you into a deeper union with the divine. At the worst it's another science which will give you a better level of health: mental, physical, and spiritual. If there is a devil I'm sure he curses yoga will all his might, since it seems to make everybody happy.
What you're dealing with here is fear, uncertainty, and doubt. If it was just me I'd ignore the person, and not get drawn into a discussion. If you think that there are additional people who will be mislead by this person's bigotry you might try pointing out a couple of simple facts. You should be aware that you are NOT going to persuade the other person, and should concentrate on keeping the other people interested.
Yoga means union is a big one. I'd also point out that one of the Niyamas (or 5 internal restrains) is loving devotion to a god. Unfortunately Patanjali really doesn't specify which one, but Christianity definitely fits. So in order to practice yoga you must have devotion to god. Not the sort of thing that Satan would push.
Finally, the peace, clarity, and happiness I get out of yoga I've been often promised, but never found in any church. I'll take results over theology any day of the week. | |
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| admittedly, i wrote some great posts on this exact topic in one in this forum. should be right around or under this thread--something about 'my abuelos. . .'--i don't know if i'm spelling it right.
but, as far as the vatican is concerned, ti's ok to practice yoga. yoga is a spiritual discipline--like prayer or meditation--that can be used by any religion/religious tradition. | |
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| I've never heard the Satan one before! 
But...some people are threatened by the relationship between yoga and Hinduism. Personally, I'm of the opinion that Yoga and Hinduism derive from the same (Vedic) philosophy - but practicing yoga does not make you a Hindu. You'd have to practice Hinduism for that. However, being a yogi (or at least a sadhaka) gives me a greater appreciation of Hinduism. So, I understand why people are threatened, but I don't agree with it. All spiritual practices should lead to the same goal. It's not a matter of which approach is right, just which one is right for YOU. | |
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| i've been waiting to weigh in on this one...
but...
i think that yoga actually does make you satan. look at the facts:
since starting yoga practice i have acquired horns, a tail, and several pitchforks. my skin color has turned to a bright red, and several rows of sharp fangs have grown in.
...
in all seriousness, though, anybody saying that is probably ill-informed, bound by dogmatic assurances, fearful of new ideas, or all of the above.
like everyone has said, yoga will enhance your spirituality if you let it, regardless of what spirituality that may be.
and if leads you to satanism, more power to you.
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| The tendency of yoga is to move you toward union with the divine. Yoga does not tell us what the divine is, so if you practice yoga (without for example taking up Hinduism, which you need not do), then you will move toward union with the divine as you understand it. So if you are Catholic, yoga will help you move toward union with God.
It is possible that the practice of yoga will lead you to explore or even change your understanding of the divine, as walking through the woods alone, or visiting a third-world country, or other powerful experiences will sometimes lead a person to explore or change his views. Any halfway-decent religion (and Catholicism is at least halfway decent  ) will give you support and direction in exploring your views about the divine. Avoiding yoga because it might make you Hindu is like avoiding a walk in the woods because it might make you a Druid. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Let's not forget which culture Yoga originated from....and which culture 100% supports and has a clear understanding of what Yoga is and the meaning of it. Whereas, Catholism, Christianity and others are going to have some conflicting ideas about it. Hindu itself is NOT a religion, and neither is Buddhism...it is a way of life.
Yes, Yoga does direct you to the Divine. There is only one Divine. It is the Ultimate Truth...Brahma. Did I say that right?? Not Brahmin, Brahma, 
Edited by Cyndi 2006-01-12 6:40 PM
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| dhanurasana - 2006-01-12 4:47 PM
and if leads you to satanism, more power to you.
Actually I've always considered Satanism a really interesting religion for idiots. Let face it, first you have to buy into the whole Christian view of the universe and how everything works. Then you have to throw in your support for the side that going to LOSE! Anyway, I'm pretty sure most of it is all about getting fat, ugly, white guys laid. (And pushing 'Eavy Metal!)
For anybody who's really interested in the subject Isaac Bonewits had some run ins with the Satanists. He was a member of the church for a while before they threw him out for causing trouble. Gee, what a recommendation, I got thrown out of the Satanic Church. I guess that's like being kicked out of Metallica for being too rough and violent.
In all seriousness Isaac Bonewits is a pretty cool guy, and the only person to get a PhD in Thaumaturgy. (That's magic to us lay people's)
http://www.neopagan.net/ | |
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| Hrmmmm.....I really want to weigh in on this, im just not sure where to start exactly.....
I could i guess start by telling you to search through the forums and find alot of posts by Zoebird, since she really really REALLY knows her stuff on this.
You have to find the answers that are right for you, and you alone, after all its only your path in life that will be judged, when its just you and whichever god you need to come to terms with in your next or after life.
This person you are looking at having an argument with seems to go by the tried and true approach of organized "christianity", which is instil fear in anyone that doesnt go along with their close minded ideas of what worship should be. You will not win an argument, no matter what facts you attempt to share, they will be taken out of context or dismantled and discredited because it wont fall in line with the belief of this person.
This is why I personally dont like the idea of orginized religion. On the same note, I try to be fairly open minded with people who are believers in orginized religion - I go by the dont judge a person until you have walked in their shoes idea.
Its also a matter of power behind the belief or ideals - if you practice yoga with an open mind and with the knowledge of it bringing closer to your trueself, then you are in turn finding yourself closer to god...or gods.
If you put a bad meaning or evil insinuation into this ( or anything relly for that matter ) then it will in turn be that way for you....or rather the person that is of this belief. Just because they believe one thing, doesnt mean if it doesnt feel like a truthful belief in your heart of hearts it applies to you.
You may want to kindly point out, that in its very basic and truest form prayer is really nothing more than meditation (im going out on a limb here: But the use of a rosary for "prayer" is quite a parallel to the use of mala beads for meditaton). Fundamentally thats what yoga is, it just makes use of your mind body and breath - basically your entire self.
If this person wants to apply an evil context to the yoga practice, then let her, dont let her push your buttons, because that is really what she is trying to do...just ignore it and tactfully show that yoga has brought you a spiritual peace that allows you to deal with this person's hostility.
I suppose I could go on.....but...I think i have said enough...hope all these replies help. | |
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| Hey GJ. When you speak of satanism are you talking of the Anton LeVey ( sp? ) version, like the satanic bible and church of satan and the like? From the stuff I have studied and read ( including the satanic bible ) many years back, this "religion" really has nothing to do with satan.
Other than that, in complete blasphemous form....I really dont get these hardcore christians that say they dont believe in satan...i mean, thats a huge part of the bible and christian foundation - so by saying you dont believe in satan, you cant really say that you believe in god. This is just my opinion, but really you cant have an acceptance of one piece without the acceptance of the other existing....i see it very much liek yin and yang.
Anyways, thats all from me...sorry for going a bit OT... | |
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| sideshow - 2006-01-13 5:18 PM
Hey GJ. When you speak of satanism are you talking of the Anton LeVey ( sp? ) version, like the satanic bible and church of satan and the like? From the stuff I have studied and read ( including the satanic bible ) many years back, this "religion" really has nothing to do with satan.
Yup, dem cats, out in cali. Berkerley to be exact.
Other than that, in complete blasphemous form....I really dont get these hardcore christians that say they dont believe in satan...i mean, thats a huge part of the bible and christian foundation - so by saying you dont believe in satan, you cant really say that you believe in god. This is just my opinion, but really you cant have an acceptance of one piece without the acceptance of the other existing....i see it very much liek yin and yang.
Anyways, thats all from me...sorry for going a bit OT...
Well.... My understanding is that the place of Satan has grown as the position of God as all power ful, and all good had become more and more predomininant. At that point you are correct, they needed somebody to balance out their all loving God, and take the blame for all the problems. Satan's a pretty minor player in the Old Testament, and not much of one in the New Testament either, at least until you get to Revelations. | |
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Veteran
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| Yoga widens the mind. And real "satans" have always been afraid of openminded people...
Kristi | |
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| Hello Moonmama :-)
If you want to know what the Catholic Church thinks about Yoga, cruise over to the Vatican web site (www.vatican.va) & use the search engine to search for "yoga" in the encyclicals. Especially interesting is "PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR CULTURE
PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR INTERRELIGIOUS DIALOGUE
JESUS CHRIST, THE BEARER OF THE WATER OF LIFE
A Christian reflection on the “New Age” "
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html
A good point to note is that the current Holy Father was for many years the chief doctrine-keeper of the Church, so he is very religiously conservative. In short, the Holy Father is not too keen on yoga.
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Many religious go through a stage where they are eager to know and do God's will, and are trying to discover it. This is oddly similar to the Zen stage where trees aren't trees and rocks aren't rocks. In this stage, the religious are very careful to avoid things that are displeasing to God. But at this point, they usually have more good intentions than good sense, and they impose restrictions on themselves which God does not command. Like dancing or drinking or whatever.
Hopefully, as they mature, they will become more educated in their religion, and drop the restrictions that are just man's wisdom.
For many Protestants, yoga practice is like this. Much of the philosophy and worldview of yoga philosophy is contrary to what a Christian believes (zoe's comments notwithstanding :-). For example, the whole concept of the "divine" ass opposed to the personal God fo the bible.
So the immature Christian may stay away from yoga because of its association with eastern religions. But as he grows in the faith, a christian begins to see that he does not have to agree with yoga philosophy to practice yoga. He does not have to chant sanskrit prayers to those who are not God. And so on.
It is like Paul's teachings about the weaker brother - if your brother can not buy the cheap meat in the pagan temple because of his conscience, then he should refrain. But if you understand that meat is meat, even if it has been offered to gods, then you can eat the cheap meat with a good conscience.
Likewise, I practice asana and breathwork, and in philosophy sessions, I state my views along with the others, and we all get along rather well :-). It is more than lawful for me to be there, it is even a chance to peak well of _my_ God, and to occasionally share the glory and beauty of Him who I serve.
And it's a good workout :-). | |
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| Moonmoma
No, it bothers me because I think she judges me to be less holy than she since I practice yoga and she isso sure it is a path to Satan.
Someone somewhere will always feel comfortable (and I daresay even enjoy) judging you...for whatever reason. It makes them feel better about themselves.
I've learned to let it go. I understand it's more about them and their insecurities than it is about me. It's a shame some are so limited and fearful, but I don't bother getting caught up in it. As long as they don't try to physically prevent me from doing something I wish to do, I ignore them.
I'm a Catholic who practices Yoga ~ it's not a big deal. If all you're looking for is a cool workout, Yoga is great. You don't need to go any deeper if you don't want to. And if you did decide to go a little deeper, Yoga need not conflict with any of your beliefs. If anything, it'll probably make you a better, happier Catholic.
Welcome! | |
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| *my 2 cents*
Since doing yoga for about 7 years now, and recently becoming a teacher, my parents are super religous (Pentecostal) and they think I have completely moved into the dark side.
Being raised with an extreme Christian upbringing (I had never heard 'secular' music till I was 12), I can say that Christians are afraid of whatever may make them even inately question their religion, they are afraid of what could crumble their perfect empire. So anything from any different area is "satanic", even tho Hinduism is one of the most beaurtiful ways of living I have studied.
Many people do this on a daily basis anyway, not only with religion - they don't understand something so they either make fun of it - or make it bad and outcast it.
I highly recommend the book "the Pagan Christ" by Tom Harpur.
He used to be an anglican priest, and he did some very amazing research on the origins of christainism. It is not a bash against the faith, it is quite an amazing read. | |
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Location: Upstate NY | Om Namah Sivaya,
Myself I was raised in a very..."strict" baptist enviroment. My grandparents more so with the death of their daughter in 1974 to a drunk driver. It did kinda push away my father and uncles somewhat to the degree of which my grandfather pushed his "values" on his children.
This "idealism" is what pushed me into looking for something greater than the ol' do as I say or your going to HELL!
I studied Eastern philosophy for many years and was really drawn to it, because of the easiness into it. As Cyndi said Buddhism and Hinduism is a way of life................. and you can as much as you want apply it to your life or inspire to something else.
What tickles me was when I returned from my TTC ( not really letting anyone in my family know what I was doing.....saving the headache  ) my grandfather asked how many boards I could break now that I was a Yoga Instructor
I just read the book "What is Religion" by Swami Vivekananda which really puts thing in perspective if anyone cares for a good read. Anyhow back to the studio I'm up to crushing 6 boards with my barefists because, I AM THE YOGA MASTER.........
Om Shanti,
Ravi | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Anyone who is having issues with Christianity or religion should read the book entitled, "Why Christianity must change or Die: a Bishop speaks to believers in exile", by retired Episcopal Bishop John Shelby Spong.
I read this book when it first came out about 7 years ago. It really was inspiring because of my own dealings with the Baptist church growing up. This is an oldie but goodie and it is just really cool to have heard if from the Bishop himself. Of course, there was so much controversy over it, but it was an excellent must read.
I just wish I had the balls to give it to my Father's preacher like he gave that book to me at Thanksgiving......... !!!"Jesus among other God's, The Absolute Claims of the Christian Message" by Ravi Zacharias. I still have this copy if anyone is interested in checking it out from my book club, Although, I do love this book's cover, it has Laxmi and Buddha on it, | |
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| you mean him?
Edited by thrasher 2006-02-23 4:08 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | thrasher - 2006-02-23 4:06 PM
you mean him?
So the path of yoga leads straight to Nassau Coliseum? | |
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| I need that hockey jersey.... | |
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| Balen - 2006-02-23 4:42 PM
I need that hockey jersey....
http://shop.nhl.com/sm-reebok-new-york-islanders-miroslav-satan-player-name-and-number--pi-2075528.html | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | elson - 2006-01-24 2:19 AM
A good point to note is that the current Holy Father was for many years the chief doctrine-keeper of the Church, so he is very religiously conservative. In short, the Holy Father is not too keen on yoga.
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Well, put. I posted one of his holiness' writings on yoga a while back.
For many Protestants, yoga practice is like this. Much of the philosophy and worldview of yoga philosophy is contrary to what a Christian believes (zoe's comments notwithstanding :-). For example, the whole concept of the "divine" ass opposed to the personal God fo the bible.
I agree completely. These concepts are ultimately incompatible. It's dualism vs. non-dualism,
and for the majority of yogic philosophers (who follow Advaita Vendanta) Man is ultimately
god --- He just doesn't know it. The same concept is found in the Upanishads (which are a
bit older, or perhaps parallel...), and even in the Rg Veda...I have a lovely quotation from
the latter that I'm meaning to post, from Doniger's translation, but the book is back at my
workplace. Whenever the *******s start to get me down, I read something uplifting.
So the immature Christian may stay away from yoga because of its association with eastern religions. But as he grows in the faith, a christian begins to see that he does not have to agree with yoga philosophy to practice yoga. He does not have to chant sanskrit prayers to those who are not God. And so on.
Please, you mean "to those whom he does not recognize as God."
(For me, the same comment would apply to The Lord's Prayer.)
It is like Paul's teachings about the weaker brother - if your brother can not buy the cheap meat in the pagan temple because of his conscience, then he should refrain. But if you understand that meat is meat, even if it has been offered to gods, then you can eat the cheap meat with a good conscience.
Likewise, I practice asana and breathwork, and in philosophy sessions, I state my views along with the others, and we all get along rather well :-). It is more than lawful for me to be there, it is even a chance to speak well of _my_ God, and to occasionally share the glory and beauty of Him who I serve.
And it's a good workout :-). | |
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| I like what Swami Vishnu-devananda has to say about who the lord is and what mercy is and what happens when our bodies die....
but, my book isn't with me so I can't quote right now.
The mentality that immediately associates evil with the unknown is pervasive in humanity.
This mentality has material attachment and fear as the most common expressions of personality.
I also like the ultra orthodox judaism interpretation of who satan is...
a creation of god, doing what god told him to do--which is temp your evil inclination--god is happy when you control your evil inclination
accusations of associations between the unknown and evil is giving into your evil inclination "fear and material attachment", and so
when one finger points out, three point back
or
it takes one to know one
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| Somebody: So the immature Christian may stay away from yoga because of its association with eastern religions. But as he grows in the faith, a christian begins to see that he does not have to agree with yoga philosophy to practice yoga. He does not have to chant sanskrit prayers to those who are not God. And so on.
===> This is one of the most illogical statements I have ever read. Let me explain how it reads to me:
One who practices Yoga does not have to agree with Yoga Philosophy. One who wants to join army does not have to believe in fighting. One who sells alcohol does not have to belive in drinking effect of alcohol.
One does not have to chant Sanskrit Prayers to those who are not God. One also does not have to pray in English, or Hebrew. One should pray in a language which God understands. What language God understands? Only, God knows.
But as he grows in faith, a Christian will know that a Christian can actually practice Yoga without believing in Yoga Philosophy which is related to eastern religions. And, then Christianity shall have association with Yoga! And, then after many years he can practice Yoga again without having anything to do with Christianity which now has association with Yoga. And, thus a immature Christian gets certificate of maturity, and then again falls into immaturity!
And, so on.
The saint Jesus Christ must be laughing at such immature Christians, no doubt! Alas! What he came for, what he did, and what these are doing!!! | |
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| This seems like an apropriate place to share an article I found this week, entitled "Is Yoga Really So Bad?" (I can't remember how I found this, but I don't think it was linked from this site.) Sorry moonmoma, I don't think this will help you address your issue.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/tcw/2001/005/3.50.html
Like many Christians, I was ignorant of yoga's underlying force. What appeared to be a healthy exercise alternative really harbored a more insidious agenda. Yoga is designed to lead you into the arms of a false god. The question every Christian considering yoga must ask is: Can I still worship the true God if my body's reaching toward another? | |
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Here's a different view from a sister magazine.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/120/42.0.html
To dispel the stereotype at hand, let me witness that yoga has never had any negative influence on me, and it doesn't trigger any harmful religious impulses. Just the opposite is true. The three hours a week I spend doing yoga not only make me more flexible, tone my muscles, and relax me. They also draw me closer to Christ. They are my bodily-kinetic prayer.
Here's a biography of one who believes Both are compatible.
Fr. Thomas Ryan, CSP, a catholic priest and certified Kripalu yoga teacher, coordinates ecumenical and inter-religious relations for the paulist community in the U.S. and Canada. His nine books include Reclaiming the Body in Christian Spirituality; The Sacred Art of Fasting; Four Steps to Spiritual Freedom; Prayer of Heart and Body; Meditation and Yoga as Christian Spiritual Practice; and Disciplines for Christian Living: Interfaith Perspectives. | |
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| There is a lot of propaganda out there putting up strawmen and running false flag operations to control your perception and get folks to be on their side.
people make mistakes, but if there is an all mighty, who or what is all everything, forever and ever then all good and bad come from that almighty...all things come from that one.
your perception and attachment make it good or bad
and the philosophy that will shackle my guilt with the threat of eternal ****ation is not great enough to cast a shadow next to my ALL MIGHTY.
So put that in your fundamentalist belief pipe and smoke it.
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| riftwaver quoted: This seems like an apropriate place to share an article I found this week, entitled "Is Yoga Really So Bad?" (I can't remember how I found this, but I don't think it was linked from this site.) Sorry moonmoma, I don't think this will help you address your issue.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/tcw/2001/005/3.50.html
Like many Christians, I was ignorant of yoga's underlying force. What appeared to be a healthy exercise alternative really harbored a more insidious agenda. Yoga is designed to lead you into the arms of a false god. The question every Christian considering yoga must ask is: Can I still worship the true God if my body's reaching toward another?
===> The article on the link is written by a person who does not have sufficient Yoga background. The person is confused and is more focussed on whether Yoga exercise can be performed without getting into any philosophy other than his own, which also is not his own, but what he is taught. This article is written with the fear of loss of one's philosophy at hand. In Philosophy, one should not fear. Also, in what is true one should not fear. Because what is real or true never becomes otherwise. Such as water can be called as milk for a while, but it will still be water. So, the person does not have to fear that someone else shall take God away from him/her. Now, the writer is correct in that one can not separate Yoga Philosophy from Yoga Exercise. When a person from an Islamic (I am not Islamic) country comes to USA and settles here, he/she can not escape from seeing a person with short clothes or swimming costumes. In the same way the Yoga Philosophy and Yoga are inseparable. Now, when a person from an Islamic country comes to USA as he/she received a fullbright scholarship to do PhD in Physics at Princeton, should such a person reject this offer because there is an American lady in the Princeton Campus who wears a swimming costume? No, he/she can come and study and not wear the costume him/her-self. And, leave the lady alone.
In the same way, one can perform Yoga Exercise and leave the others to do whatever they want to do with it. One should only know what one should do. But, if one is really knowledgeable in Yoga, one can not escape the Sutra from the most Standard Yoga Philosophy Text, namely Shree Patanjala Yogadarshanam which states:
yathaabhimatadhyanadwaa.... one should meditate on one's chose ideal whatever that is. And, one shall succeed in Yoga.
Thus, Yoga does not have any contradiction with one meditating on Jesus Christ or whatever they want.
The problem arises when one is worried about what others are meditating on! | |
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| A very interesting thread, hahahaha...
Coming from a very Christian community, middle Eastern Maine, I really don't think 85% of all Christians and or Catholics understand what spirituality really is. Let alone the God or what ever one terms the Ultimate Divine. Is it the Tao? Is it Brahma?
Main stream Christianity is really ignorant about the progressive bodies that all humans have. And I believe that coming in touch with these many bodies brings us, as humans, closer to The Divine. The Taoists know this, and so do Yogis and many Eastern ways of life. Christianity, as it is known now, is a young religion, and like a child becomes afraid easily.
And remember, there are other scriptures that were thrown out that challenged the CONTROL of the church. Look at the Nag Hamadi Gospels. And Gnostic Christianity.Most Gnostics were tortured and killed.That's real Christian behaviour. Basically, most Christians are worshipping Pauline Christianity, which is only a peripheral view of spirituality. We weren't given the essence of the teaching. I have read some of the Gnostic Gospels and what I've noticed is that they are YOGA! Isn't that appalling? What is the essence of Christianity is what is being dogmatically ostracized. But, if a person was truly pure, than, I think, reading the Bible can and does open up the soul. But with society the way it is, self purification is needed and opening the chakras, dan tiens, etc. That is simply what yoga offers. It offers one to witness God in a purer state. Ignorance is the devil(as mentioned before)not yoga. Yoga is a tool for the Divine Spirit. The Bible coupled with yoga can be a beautiful thing. That sort of leads back to Gnostic Christianity, in a sense. Gnostic=knowledge. Yoga is simply knowledge.
SElf-study is really needed that transends culture.
I've never met a violent yogi/ni. I have met violent Christians. Can anybody truly support a crusade for spiritual beliefs? Whether it be Iraq or the Inquisition, it is closer to evil than yoga will ever be. Those are the issues that need to be dealt with.
Doug | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | So, today as I was driving around the city, I was listening to a christian talk show on the radio...just happened to have heard a couple of bleeps and left it there for a few mins. Boy, these guys are really fired up about the Divinci Code Book and Movie due out. I could not believe how these Christians are reacting to this...it's is so hilarious. Anyway, I think I'm going to go get me a copy of the book and read it before the movie comes out.
The part they were upset with was the fact that somewhere in the book it says that Jesus Christ was married and had children in the South of France. I can't see why they would get upset over this. I guess if we told them about Jesus in India and Tibet, that would really send them over the edge, huh?? Oh well..... | |
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| Cyndi - 2006-05-11 10:38 PM
The part they were upset with was the fact that somewhere in the book it says that Jesus Christ was married and had children in the South of France. I can't see why they would get upset over this. I guess if we told them about Jesus in India and Tibet, that would really send them over the edge, huh?? Oh well.....
I really don't get it either. I had a pretty strict christian upbringing, so you'd think I'd know right? Not a clue. I guess some people are always looking for a reason to get upset. | |
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| not to be a complete a$$hole about this but
I've read some really good arguments that state that there's as much proof that Hercules existed as there is that Jesus Christ Existed
so
if you believe you must have strong faith, because there is no proof of the existence of Christ, and books called your bible written hundreds of years after the death of a possible person is not objective verifiable proof
but that doesn't mean I'm a heathen or non-believer
i'm just putting that ultra orthodox judaism argument forward, because i know about it
peace
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| Well, there is the possibility that the Christ story was an amalgamation of many different gods. i'm sure most of you heard some of these theries. Maybe Christ did live, but from what i've been told by a friend that studied ina Jewish college was that there's no real proof in the Roman archives that Christ did exist. I think that there was someone that these stories are based after, but parts of his life could be jumbled with past religions. Christ is not the first man to have 'risen from the dead.' There are a lot of similarities is all I'm saying. But the Crist message is beautiful and strong. If we can get beyond the blundering egotistical and manipulative, fearful vises of man, that destroy the message. Part of that is the fear of yoga!
There are some Japanese that believe Christ died here at the end of his journeys...hmm. There's a grave dedicated to him here. What about Buddha? | |
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| The basketball player named Satan is funny. I love that.
Unfortunately, the people who think yoga has an agenda are hypnotized by their religion. I think these people substitute one addiction (drinking) for another (fundamentalism). It says in the bible, 'be like little children' (be innocent and open) and don't you know kids just love yoga! Where does it say, 'be like old, crotchety people fearful of new experiences'?
I don't need carbon dating to know God exists. He surprizes me everyday. I am grateful.
fifi | |
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| P.S. I have a Jewish friend who told me Christ existed. My Buddhist friend told me that, too. | |
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| Cyndi, nobody likes to be proven wrong...If the Bible says Christ didn't have Children and some scriptures were kept out for control of the church, and there was proof later that there is another possible finish, then I'm sure there would be a lot of embarrassment, especially, the dogmatic, tight, worshipping that happens in large organizations. It's not really important. It's themessage that's important. I don't know why people get all bent out of shape about it either.
I like the new Christian religions that are popping up. They're interesting and exploring yogas of different sorts.
One woman who I found to be particularly knowledgeable is Carolyn Myss. She has been raised by nunsies and she is a medical intuitive and works wirth doctors. She's linked into the Taoist knowledge of energetics, chakras, specific organs, and illnesses just by being in the realm of the nun's spiritual lifestyle, which tells me Christianity isn't all poopoo. She talks about how energies are stored in the different chakras and how they are leaked out. She also makes the assertion that people in the seventies tried yoga, tried meditation, and nothing worked(they didn't stick with it long enough, we like the quick fix). But the point is that people didn't know what to do with the energy, so even an energetic healing system won't work if one doesn't know what to do with the energy leakage, or the stored up negative energy.
She's in Boulder Co. She puts out audio and video tapes. The one that I have is 'The Enegetics of Healing' | |
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| Please! The Catholic Church practices magic closely linked to Kabbalah.
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| *Fifi* - 2006-05-12 12:45 AM
Please! The Catholic Church practices magic closely linked to Kabbalah.
Heretic! Sending out the Illuminanti hit squads!
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| If Jesus of Nazareth existed and was flesh and blood, a real man like me then..........
why not Hercules
or Zoraster
or Mithras
or Krishna
All of these are Son of God, some are Holy Trinity, Savior/Messiah Stories
I mean really, it's a matter of faith
how's it go? "Blessed is he who believes but does not see"
and then there's the story of the doubting Thomas who wouldn't believe unless he could touch the wounds
But what i'm getting at is "do any of these stories need to be real for us to know the ALMIGHTY"
and i would contend that needs must not be so, that there are other possibilities
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| My opinon:
1. It is NOT good for anyone to doubt whether Jesus actually existed. Because, either a) He did really exist. b) or, at least he exists through the books c) or he does exist through stories.
All the three forms of existence would not create any problem. As long as we know what he did, what he said, what he stands for. It will not make any difference to me whether I heard of a flower called XXX which I have not seen, and it exists in Nepal, even in story form. As long as I know that the flower was blue, smelt good, etc. etc. I can relate to the flower.
2. The problem comes when I say that with the same logic such as above, others did not exist. Others are against my understanding. ETC. For example, I start telling that certain other flower of orange colour in Malasia should not be worn or should not be smelt, because that is NOT my blue flower from Nepal, whether really or in a story form.
3. Also, I should not be fearful about Orange flower if I am user of Blue flower.
4. And, when Jesus said " Do NOT hoard money" and he did show it in his actual act, I can not imagine his so called devotees of today building multimillion dollar manshions in the name of Religion.
5. And, those who do not want to do Yoga exercise, can go biking, swimming, or walking around their big building called Church with a small statue of Saint Jesus. They should not worry what the Yogis are doing in their studios.
Love and Peace | |
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| Green Jello, I like that picture. What exactly is the Illuminati? I only hear about them from Art Bell on Coast-to-Coast (but he also says he's seen outer-space aliens, so I take what he says with a healthy dose of salt)
I think there are lots of good things about the Catholic church that are buried by some their unwholesome practices.
The people on top always want to protect their assets. | |
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| now,
what this thread really needs is an advocate, like ZB to flesh out the real debate | |
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| kulkarnn - 2006-05-12 8:26 AM
My opinon:
1. It is NOT good for anyone to doubt whether Jesus actually existed. Because, either a) He did really exist. b) or, at least he exists through the books c) or he does exist through stories.
All the three forms of existence would not create any problem. As long as we know what he did, what he said, what he stands for. It will not make any difference to me whether I heard of a flower called XXX which I have not seen, and it exists in Nepal, even in story form. As long as I know that the flower was blue, smelt good, etc. etc. I can relate to the flower.
The problem with Jesus's existence rests on whether or not he was a living, breathing example of what's possible. If he was a REAL person, then his admonisments that he was the living example mean that it's possible for all of us to achieve that same level of perfect.
If it's just a nice story, then it may or may not be possible for us to achieve what he supposedly did. In this case, then we could easily take our examples from the pages of DC comics, and attempt to live like Superman. | |
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| GreenJello - 2006-05-12 10:03 AM
kulkarnn - 2006-05-12 8:26 AM
My opinon:
1. It is NOT good for anyone to doubt whether Jesus actually existed. Because, either a) He did really exist. b) or, at least he exists through the books c) or he does exist through stories.
All the three forms of existence would not create any problem. As long as we know what he did, what he said, what he stands for. It will not make any difference to me whether I heard of a flower called XXX which I have not seen, and it exists in Nepal, even in story form. As long as I know that the flower was blue, smelt good, etc. etc. I can relate to the flower.
The problem with Jesus's existence rests on whether or not he was a living, breathing example of what's possible. If he was a REAL person, then his admonisments that he was the living example mean that it's possible for all of us to achieve that same level of perfect.
If it's just a nice story, then it may or may not be possible for us to achieve what he supposedly did. In this case, then we could easily take our examples from the pages of DC comics, and attempt to live like Superman.
WOW, Superman does exist in the stories, that is a good point
i'm not afraid to consider that the stories of Jesus are just that, stories | |
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| GJ: The problem with Jesus's existence rests on whether or not he was a living, breathing example of what's possible. If he was a REAL person, then his admonisments that he was the living example mean that it's possible for all of us to achieve that same level of perfect.
===> Of course, it is possible to achieve the same level of perfect if one goes in that direction and persists in the try. That is what Jesus preached. He said that if you surrender unto me, and then practice what I preach (love thy neighbour as you love yourself, NOT love thy American Indians as they were loved, NOT love African friends as they were loved, AND love thy Egyptian friends and eradicate their pagans, NOT love the world around and brring their arts and crafts to be displayed in the museums of Britain) (do NOT hoard money, NOT build riches in the Rome and burn others and torchure great scientists such as Galilio Galili). He wanted others to achieve the same perfect and that is what he preached. He did NOT preach that you do whatever **** you want and I shall go to the cross to save you.
Peace. | |
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| kulkarnn - 2006-05-12 10:12 PM
GJ: The problem with Jesus's existence rests on whether or not he was a living, breathing example of what's possible. If he was a REAL person, then his admonisments that he was the living example mean that it's possible for all of us to achieve that same level of perfect.
===> Of course, it is possible to achieve the same level of perfect if one goes in that direction and persists in the try.
You and I might agree on this point, but I don't think this is how most Christians are taught. Instead there's a strong emphasis on the worship of Jesus, which means that he has to be more than just a story.
He did NOT preach that you do whatever **** you want and I shall go to the cross to save you.
Frankly, I find this part of the bible confusing. There appear to be a number of slightly different approaches depending on which books you read. Some say you have to work at it all the time, others just that you have to accept Jesus in your heart (which could happen anytime). This confusion of paths is part of the reason I don't care for Christianity.
Edited by GreenJello 2006-05-12 11:38 PM
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| GJ:You and I might agree on this point, but I don't think this is how most Christians are taught. Instead there's a strong emphasis on the worship of Jesus, which means that he has to be more than just a story.
===> As long as you and me agree we are in the game (of Bulletin Board or Yoga Practice!). Yes, worship of any thing higher is good. When one worships president of a rich country, you get financial benefits from that cournty. That time we do not think how that president is, except that the president is that of a Rich County. Same way, as long as you get Spiritual Benefit from Jesus, we do not care whether he was a Jew/Christian/Hindu, or whether he was a story or real or God or Son of God, or daughter of God, married or unmarried. We only see that whatever we know him to be has divine qualities. And, then we worship him for those divine qualities.
He did NOT preach that you do whatever **** you want and I shall go to the cross to save you. --->
Frankly, I find this part of the bible confusing. There appear to be a number of slightly different approaches depending on which books you read. Some say you have to work at it all the time, others just that you have to accept Jesus in your heart (which could happen anytime). This confusion of paths is part of the reason I don't care for Christianity.
===> And that is why many do not care for it either. And, when others do not care for it, certain chosen people get angry and burn them. Otherwise, their pockets will be empty! However Jesus does not belong to them. He belongs to all Spiritual seekers. And, he was NOT the first one. In fact, he was one of the recent ones. And, Spirituality is NOT recent. It is age old. Whether someone likes it or not, recorded events of spirituality go to Vedas in India. (I am not saying this because I am not Indian. And, I did not quote Galilio because I am an Italian and drink olive oil! I drink tea.)
Peace.
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| *Fifi* - 2006-05-12 9:14 AM
Green Jello, I like that picture. What exactly is the Illuminati? I only hear about them from Art Bell on Coast-to-Coast (but he also says he's seen outer-space aliens, so I take what he says with a healthy dose of salt)
Completely missed this comment for some reason. Frankly, I really don't know what the Illuminati is. For most people it's a bit of a joke, particular in the gaming circles I run with. (Which is how I was using it) The myth is that they're some sort of international conspiracy to control the world. The latest theories cast Bush Sr and Jr. as members because they were both members of a fraternity at Harvard (Yale maybe?) called the Skull and Bones. It's a real organization, more like a tie into the ole boys network than anything. Supposedly the Illuminati operate through the Skull and Bones and they're working on a New World Order (NWO). (Which is a phrase Bush Sr. used to use a LOT)
Frankly, I think it's all crap, because if there really were a huge conspiracy it would be just about impossible to really keep it under wraps. The more people there are in your organization, the more likely it is that somebody will get pissed off, and spill the beans. So they're just not stable.
I DO believe that Bush Sr. and Jr. are probably part of the ole boys club, so some of the stuff about the Skull and Bones is true, it's just business as usual. The American Nobility has to stick together to keep the peasants in line.
There's also some anti-semitic stuff as well supposedly related the illumanti, and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The protocols supposedly date back to like 17th century or something. This relates back to the supposed plans for world wide control, all supposedly headed up by a bunch of Jewish Kabbalists..... The Protocols have been shown to be forgeries, with the intent to stir up hatered against the Jews.
Then there are the supposed ties to the Rosencrusians, Kabbalists, Occultists, Free Masons etc. For the most part this may or may not be true, but I feel like I've fallen down a rabbit hole at that point. If there really were a global conspiracy to control everything, how would things be different? What would it matter to you and me? The people in charge have been the people in charge for a long long long time, ie the old money families, little changes in that regard.
So I'm just going to keep doing my yoga and winking at the pretty girls.....
Edited by GreenJello 2006-05-13 10:53 AM
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| Neel: You and I are in agreement, I was just attempting to explain what I believe is the Christian view point on why it's important that Jesus be viewed as a real person. There are also some ties for this in the Bible, so that if he is nolonger a real person, some part of it also become invalid. In particular the parts where he claims to be the living example would nolonger be valid if he's a fictional character. Fictional characters can be anything, and claim anything they like. | |
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| Internet gaming is a billion dollar industry - online poker, sports betting...is that what you're referring to? Just being nosey.
I don't believe in conspiracy. If there was a plan to conspire against the world, oh well, what are you going to do? Frankly, conspiracists are always pretty nutty if you ask me. They never seem to shower, either. But that's another issue.
I do remember the Skull and Bones thingy being brought up during the last election. John Kerry was also a member. The circle gets smaller and smaller and our choices less and less. But that's life. For me, I need something bigger to believe in, so I choose God. It's such a relief to me. It's so easy to go through life only thinking of benefitting yourself but there are intangible rewards for sacrifice and giving of yourself. For me this life is only a test. What's the worst that could happen? We die and we go into a different plane of existence. What's so bad about that? It's worse to live a tortured life.
Enjoy the weekend!
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| *Fifi* - 2006-05-13 11:09 AM
Internet gaming is a billion dollar industry - online poker, sports betting...is that what you're referring to? Just being nosey.
Board games, computer games, multi-player online games, roleplaying games, that sort of thing. There's a whole subculture of people who are into these sorts of geeky things. It's not very "cool" but playing games is a wonderful way to figure out what works, and what doesn't. You get to see different systems in play, and see people's reactions. It's also a good way to socialize .
I personally don't like gambling, though I'm coming around a bit. Last time I played poker was a revelation of sorts. After all, everything's a gamble to some extent. Playing poker is a good way to learn to deal with it on lesser stakes than say your career or marriage. Also reminds me of dating... | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | kulkarnn - 2006-05-13 6:59 AM
And, Spirituality is NOT recent. It is age old. Whether someone likes it or not, recorded events of spirituality go to Vedas in India. (I am not saying this because I am not Indian. And, I did not quote Galilio because I am an Italian and drink olive oil! I drink tea.)
Peace.
Amen, NB!!
Now, I have a question?? You said above that you weren't saying this because I am not Indian and you did quote Galilio because you are Italian??? So, like what are you....I could of sworn you were Indian, not Italian. What's wrong with this picture?? Neelbhai wants to switch to being an Italian...I know why...someone got him hooked on Pizza, that's it! | |
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| hearken back to the ages before the stories told were formed
when, before the last ice age
before the temples to the sun
when did it occur to conciousness to pursue spirituality, as opposed to say....feed the need? | |
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| I don't gamble because it's very boring to me. Not to mention, Vegas wasn't build on winners.
It's really hot here, like 400 degrees | |
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| *Fifi* - 2006-05-13 4:33 PM
I don't gamble because it's very boring to me. Not to mention, Vegas wasn't build on winners.
I find craps, slots, and roulete to be very boring. Poker is a completely different animal. In my case we were playing Texas Hold'em, and there was no house. Texas Hold 'em has about the least amount of random luck involved of all forms of poker because everybody makes a hand out of the cards in the center and two "hole" cards.
Essentially the game comes down to knowing the rules/odds, reading people, and knowing when to gamble. For my first game, I had never played against other people, and I didn't know any of the other players other than the friend of mine who invited me over. In the first round, I managed to spot one guy's tell almost immediately and won a large pot as a result. That round however, I didn't really know much about the game, and ended up being the third person (of 7) eliminated. The second round I had a much better feel for the game, and I managed to come in 2nd, winning $40, making the evening a net draw. (Which I was fine with, I completely expected to lose the $40 I ponyed up, and was paying for the experience.)
Couple of things stood out for me, was the idea that you ALWAY had to put money into the pot. This makes it impossible to continually fold until you get a better hand. You could look at this as analogous to the way time in life is always ticking away.
Then there's the hands, how comfortable do you feel with the cards you've been dealt. In this case the cards could be compared to your position in life, ie how good looking you are, how much money you make, etc. Since this is Texas Hold 'em a lot of the cards are showing, but some are not. This is comparable to how you look, and other obvious things, and the things you're not showing, such as personal problems, or virtues.
Then there's the play. You're forced to go into a situation with an imperfect knowledge, and make the best play there is. This is very comparable to life, were you just can't know everything, and you've forced by the hands of time to make a decision.
At any point you can decide that you've had enough, and fold, but the longer you stay in, the more you have invested in the game. This is comparable to the way most people start with a little time and energy invested in the relationship, so they're more likely to walk away for something minor.
Folding early on is like deciding that the other person is unsuitable in some way, the way that most people do with 99% of the people we see everyday. When you're walking around in real life, you're running into people constantly. Some are too old, some too young, some unattractive, some already in relationships, etc. This is all stuff you can do just by looking at them.
Once they've passed this initial barrier it's on to the next one. Maybe you stop and chat for a minute or two, and find out that they've got bad breath, a nasty slur, or swear constantly. This is comparable to the constant raise of stakes as more of the common cards are revealed. Maybe you ask them to dinner, or some other form of official date.
All this requires an investment of time and energy. As the stakes elevate some people stay in longer than they should due to all the money they've already put into the game. They're chasing good money with bad, because they've already lost. This is akin to people staying in a relationship were there's been a major betrayal of trust, like the other partner cheating, and continuing to stay with that person.
Then, there's a moment of truth, the call. This is the part where you find out if the cards you've got are enough to take the pot or not. In a lot of life people bluff. They put up fronts, and pretend to be more than they are, or less than they are. The call is a lot like marriage. Once you're married all the fronts come down, and you're pretty much left with the real person.
In one case I was absolutely certain that I didn't have the cards for the hand, and I was about to lose. Turns out I was dead wrong. This is kinda like the mis-matched partnerships you sometimes see, where the man or woman is obviously not the other's equal. In these cases, the cards fell a little different than maybe they should, or there's something that you don't know about the situation. There's also a certain amount of subjectivity to most things. Am I really beautiful or handsome. Do I really make enough for this person? Do I have the right personality to get along with them, or are they only looking for a quick lay, or somebody to take care of the kids.
Finally, there's the pot were everybody folds. This is very much akin to those little things that happen in life where you never hear the end of it. This is that girl you talked to for a couple of minutes once, and almost asked out, but something got in the way. This is the girl who seemed really into you, but stopped taking your phone calls for some reason.
Couple of other dynamics. First, you must play to stay in the game. Otherwise you WILL lose, the pot will take your stake, and leave you with nothing. This is akin to the spinsters you see out there with nobody. I personally have a good chance of falling into that trap since I'm so cautious. Everything in life involves some level of risk, but most people don't realize this, so the house eats their pot. Playing poker forces me to take chances, and to become accustomed to taking risks.
Second, you don't have to play every hand that comes up, even the potentially good ones. The guy who came in second in the first round spent almost the entire game folding. He had a couple of really good hands, and was able to stay on until the very end as a result. This is akin to the way I've been playing the dating game. I've been letting most things go past, but as a result I don't have any baggage, which places me in a better spot than somebody who lost their stake in a bad relationship. Friend of mine got married to the wrong girl, and as a result now has a kid, and a life-long attachment to a very miserable person. I don't have his experience, but I also don't have his enormous drawback either.
Sorry for the book, sometimes I just gotta say something.
Edited by GreenJello 2006-05-13 5:21 PM
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| dive in head first
don't look back | |
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| Actually, I can see how a friendly poker game could be fun. I'd only want to play with my friends and not at a casino. Icky feng shui at casinos (except for steve wynn's casinos. He has them professionally feng shui'd) And play for nickels and dimes. No big stakes.
Well, there's baggage and then there's drama with lots of loose ends.
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| Steve, people who don't look before they leap often go over cliffs..... The interesting thing about poker is that it's a calculated risk, like much in life. Just jumping in is like playing the slots, or craps. You might win big, you might lose your shirt.
*Fifi* - 2006-05-14 10:30 AM
Actually, I can see how a friendly poker game could be fun. I'd only want to play with my friends and not at a casino. Icky feng shui at casinos (except for steve wynn's casinos. He has them professionally feng shui'd) And play for nickels and dimes. No big stakes.
I personally avoid casinos because I don't care for the people they attract. We have some riverboat gambling here in Cincinnat, and a friend of mine decided it would be a good idea for his bachelor party. So we all headed down there for a couple of hours. I have never seen such a diverse crowd of losers in all my life. The absolute lowest of the low. The place absolutely reaked of negativity, all except for two drop dead gorgeous girls I saw wondering around, who had to be prostitues... Ugh!
I was the only person (out of 7 of us) who managed to win any money. Early on I put a couple of bucks into one of the slot machines (there wasn't anything else to do), and managed to get an $80 payout. I stopped playing immediately. Casinos really hate guys like me.
Anyway, the other point I was making was the ability to cheaply learn some life lessons by playing games. | |
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| life is the BIGGEST gamble
it is not a game
bet big, you may only live once
you have the ability to look back, but you can't do it again
You'll never touch the same cards twice
leap
head first
in the end
you die
just like everybody else | |
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| Steve, you're such a positive person and that's good!
GJ - I hardly ever go down to The Strip because it's a pain in the butt to drive and park but when I do I always have fun just walking around, checking things out. My beau hates going to the Strip since he's got a 24/7 job and he can't relax when he's out and about. Plus, all the bad people end up in Las Vegas, like the 9/11 terrorists and the future terrorists that want to blow us up (Sean is on the FBI terrorist duty).
Actually, ever since Steve Wynn feng shui'd a couple of casinos, it's more enjoyable (less smokey, more light). There are normal people. In fact, the hos are discreetely escorted off the property. There are plently of "gentlemen's club" for that!
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| *Fifi* - 2006-05-14 4:00 PM
Plus, all the bad people end up in Las Vegas, like the 9/11 terrorists and the future terrorists that want to blow us up (Sean is on the FBI terrorist duty).
I've been reading that the most searched for word in the Muslim world is "sex". Guess all the future terrorists want to look at a flesh and blood girl before meeting their harem in the next life.
Edited by GreenJello 2006-05-14 4:30 PM
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| *Fifi* - 2006-05-14 4:00 PM
Steve, you're such a positive person and that's good!
GJ - I hardly ever go down to The Strip because it's a pain in the butt to drive and park but when I do I always have fun just walking around, checking things out. My beau hates going to the Strip since he's got a 24/7 job and he can't relax when he's out and about. Plus, all the bad people end up in Las Vegas, like the 9/11 terrorists and the future terrorists that want to blow us up (Sean is on the FBI terrorist duty ).
Actually, ever since Steve Wynn feng shui'd a couple of casinos, it's more enjoyable (less smokey, more light ). There are normal people. In fact, the hos are discreetely escorted off the property. There are plently of "gentlemen's club" for that!
f
Holy Crap, you guys are actually talking about really playing cards and craps?!?!?!!!!???
dang....haven't done that since i left the streets.
GEEEEE whiz, I feel like a moron.
I've never been to Las Vegas, but my folks own a time share there and say I should go with the wife some time in the future.
I've never really had the lust for travel, or gambling--other than the big gamble
Edited by SCThornley 2006-05-14 4:40 PM
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| GreenJello - 2006-05-14 4:29 PM
*Fifi* - 2006-05-14 4:00 PM
Plus, all the bad people end up in Las Vegas, like the 9/11 terrorists and the future terrorists that want to blow us up (Sean is on the FBI terrorist duty).
I've been reading that the most searched for word in the Muslim world is "sex". Guess all the future terrorists want to look at a flesh and blood girl before meeting their harem in the next life.
Do you realize that you turn almost every post into a discussion on sex... my gods man - get a girlfriend already! ;) | |
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| shnen - 2006-05-16 8:00 AM
Do you realize that you turn almost every post into a discussion on sex... my gods man - get a girlfriend already! ;)
But I'm having too much fun obsessing! | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | shnen - 2006-05-16 8:00 AM
Do you realize that you turn almost every post into a discussion on sex... my gods man - get a girlfriend already! ;)
Really GJ, get a girlfriend already!!! Like haven't you found one on myspace yet??
I was in this store the other day and one of the porno magazines was hanging out. The words said, "The girls of myspace". I've seen some really interesting things over there GJ, now's a good chance with it being so popular and all,
BTW, I'm happily married, so this myspace girl is taken, | |
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| Cyndi - 2006-05-16 11:44 AM
I was in this store the other day and one of the porno magazines was hanging out. The words said, "The girls of myspace".
Cyndi!
stop looking at porn!
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| SCThornley - 2006-05-16 2:32 PM
Cyndi - 2006-05-16 11:44 AM
I was in this store the other day and one of the porno magazines was hanging out. The words said, "The girls of myspace".
Cyndi!
stop looking at porn!
Yeah Porn/Porno=Satan?!?!
In Cyndi's defense I have to say it's pretty hard to avoid, even the ads are almost soft-core porn. | |
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| I loathe all advertising in general - don't tell me what i want - i know what I need and that's all I want! ;)
hmmm... wonder if there is a boys of myspace? they are porbably all ugly and hairy... but i bet they have a great sense of humour.... | |
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| shnen - 2006-05-16 2:42 PM
hmmm... wonder if there is a boys of myspace? they are porbably all ugly and hairy... but i bet they have a great sense of humour....
ROFL
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I'll never forget the first time I ever looked at a Playgirl Magazine....I was 13 years old over at a friend's house going through her parent's bedroom,
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| I don't think I have ever even seen one - I have never really been into any of that stuff - never been to a strip club... I see it all as being very materialsitic and objectifying... but with the blatent objectification of women that is exploding more then ever before (so much for femenism) it is nice to see a few good men!
I don't mind at all when i get the rugby calendars in my email ;) Ladies - you know what I am talking about ;) | |
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| what does ROLF mean? | |
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| *Fifi* - 2006-05-17 9:26 AM
what does ROLF mean?
LOL
probably
rolling on the floor laughing
rofl | |
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| shnen - 2006-05-17 7:21 AM
I don't think I have ever even seen one - I have never really been into any of that stuff - never been to a strip club...
I've been to a few, usually somebody drags me. Went to one in Montreal with lap dances, etc. I had told my boss before that I didn't like them because I like to see something I couldn't touch. (I was hoping we could just find a bar) Instead he decided to buy us all lap dances. I walked out, which really bothered him because he figured he had really upset me. (Not the case, just wasn't interested). FWIW, we also went into a real live cat house before that. Really surprised me, didn't think such things existed. To my boss's cred he didn't want to stick around there. | |
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| oh, you've never been to Nye County, NV? | |
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| *Fifi* - 2006-05-20 11:30 PM
oh, you've never been to Nye County, NV?
Never, and you can't prove otherwise.
Actually I've heard about that, and I think I've gotten "propositioned" a couple of times on the streets of cincy. Cincy's so conservative about that sort of thing, that the people v. larry flint is about stuff that happened here.
The thing that really surprised me about this cat house was that it was just another business in a lot of ways. We were walking down the main drag in Montreal, and going into various strip joints, and this just happened to be one of the first we hit before going to the last one where my boss bought the lap dances. These strip joints were right next to the resturants, bars, arcades, shops, etc. Very normal looking. We didn't even realize it was cat house until after we had talked to the "madam". | |
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| GreenJello - 2006-05-20 11:57 PM
Very normal looking. We didn't even realize it was cat house until after we had talked to the "madam".
ehh, it's a living
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| Boy, this has gotten off topic.
Yoga is not satanic. There, I solved it. Does anyone else have a problem that needs solving? My horoscope said I'd be really on today.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | GreenJello - 2006-05-20 8:58 PM shnen - 2006-05-17 7:21 AM I don't think I have ever even seen one - I have never really been into any of that stuff - never been to a strip club... I've been to a few, usually somebody drags me. Went to one in Montreal with lap dances, etc. I had told my boss before that I didn't like them because I like to see something I couldn't touch. (I was hoping we could just find a bar ) Instead he decided to buy us all lap dances. I walked out, which really bothered him because he figured he had really upset me. (Not the case, just wasn't interested ). FWIW, we also went into a real live cat house before that. Really surprised me, didn't think such things existed. To my boss's cred he didn't want to stick around there. For what it's worth, your boss could be terminated for that sort behavior where I work... why do people think it's appropriate to bring either sex or alcohol into a work situation? Oy vey... | |
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| Bay Guy - 2006-05-21 1:36 PM
For what it's worth, your boss could be terminated for that sort behavior where I work... why do people think it's appropriate to bring either sex or alcohol into a work situation? Oy vey...
Not where I work. It's a VERY small company of about 5 employees, and my boss is the prez, and owns a substantail amount of company stock. We were also wandering the streets after a convention, and he was trying to show us a good time, in his own way. Maybe grounds for some sort of lawsuit, but he's not an a-hole. (Which kinda shoots down your whole theory about bosses)
Yoga is not satanic. There, I solved it. Does anyone else have a problem that needs solving? My horoscope said I'd be really on today.
Still looking for a hawt hawt super-bendy yoga girl. She must match be 36"-24"-36", long red hair, have never known the touch of a man, have a complete understanding of yogic philosophy, and give excellent back rubs. Let me know when you find her. BTW, the whole world peace thing is still a sore subject.... | |
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| GreenJello - 2006-05-21 2:16 PM
Still looking for a hawt hawt super-bendy yoga girl. She must match be 36"-24"-36", long red hair, have never known the touch of a man, have a complete understanding of yogic philosophy, and give excellent back rubs. Let me know when you find her. BTW, the whole world peace thing is still a sore subject....
Well, how is the Kama Sutra coming
now all you have to do is put the plan in motion
get yourself to a house warming party, find the red head
and just rationalize the rest of your life away to convince yourself that you made the right decision | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | What is it with this Kama Sutra stuff you keep mentioning SCT...have you ever had formal Kama Sutra training from a priests or in a temple?? Or did you just read it out of a book?? Just curious....as I see you refer to it a lot. In my husband's culture, they don't go around talking about Kama Sutra like this...it is very sacred and should be kept in private. Keeps it authentic, | |
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| I'm about half way through it. As I said in the other thread I've been very very very busy, and it's about 500 pages long. So ~250 pages isn't bad for a week or so, particulary since I haven't read it everyday.
Once again, there appears to be a LOT of good information explained pretty clearly. OTOH, there's also a lot of cultural stuff that doesn't quite a apply. Oh, and don't mind Cyndi, in addition to speak for an entire culture via her husband, she also tends to make every other post "Don't talk about X". Makes me wonder why she's on a message board, where the point is to discuss stuff.
Anyway, I'm still hoping that requesting boon from the great yogini/Genie *fifi* will get me there faster. | |
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| GreenJello - 2006-05-21 4:37 PM
I'm about half way through it. As I said in the other thread I've been very very very busy, and it's about 500 pages long. So ~250 pages isn't bad for a week or so, particulary since I haven't read it everyday.
Once again, there appears to be a LOT of good information explained pretty clearly. OTOH, there's also a lot of cultural stuff that doesn't quite a apply. Oh, and don't mind Cyndi, in addition to speak for an entire culture via her husband, she also tends to make every other post "Don't talk about X". Makes me wonder why she's on a message board, where the point is to discuss stuff.
Anyway, I'm still hoping that requesting boon from the great yogini/Genie *fifi* will get me there faster.
Well,
THE SACRED SECRETS OF THE KAMA SUTRA ARE OUT, they are being splashed across the pages of the STAR and other Grocery Store Tabloids!!!!!
i do believe the recent numbers released mean it's a bigger seller than the bible (insert sarcasm icon) I do believe that it's Oprah's next book of the week!
The rules of society really haven't changed much, neither have the mating rituals.
So, being as civilized and gentrified as we are......... we are sort of disconnected from this whole society thing i keep hearing so much about and reading a very down to earth rule book for society like the KAMA SUTRA is just the ticket for modern western man to reconnect with age old time tested and proved wisdom of how to behave and get along.
I just bring it up because, there was this SACRED SECRET hidden in the pages that pretty well spelled out how I met my wife a day or two before i met her no foolin', so I'm sold.
Everything just sorta fell into place.
And if you can read you don't need a preacher or a priest to tell you what the words mean, but that's the protestant in me projecting on you, so excuse me if you don't agree with me.
Good Luck, Andrew, the girl of your dreams is materializing, and just waiting for you to notice her and say, "Hi, I'm Andrew "
Hey, My Great Grandfather was named Andrew and he and his wife had 13 children. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | and then ya'll wonder why we have subject lines such as this one...... Yoga/Yogi=Satan?! | |
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| well God did create Satan, right? | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | God didn't create Satan...Human Beings created Satan!! | |
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| Cyndi can join the great sect of fascists on yoga.com. I get lonely being the only fascist. We will keep you boys in line! Actung!
GreenJello, I think you should move to San Francisco. SF is city filled with gay men and straight women. Plus, it's very computery so you should be able to make bank, which you'll need for rent, parking tickets and all the cool yoga classes you'll be taking. You'll meet your future wife at a yoga workshop. At first she'll be lesbian, never knowing the touch of a man (fulfilling that request). Then she'll realize she really does want the touch of a man and fall head over heels for you. She'll be yogic and athletic and in good shape (fulfilling that requirement [you can buy her boobs if you'd like]). And, she can always grow her hair long and dye it red. I know a great hairdresser in Noe Valley (which has a lot of lesbians). Start looking.
Another note to GJ - you've been sounding cranky latey. Too much Kama Sutra sans partner. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Fifi,
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Soooo, did anyone see the movie...ya know...the movie with the initials TDC?? Ron Howard did a really nice job with that movie...I enjoyed it tremendously! What I found amusing was coming out to the parking lot 20 mins later to find old men standing around arguing about it, The lady at our theater here in the "bible belt" said their theater had been threatened with emails and phone calls. Things such "your all going to hell if you show that movie", yadda yadda"....then they say Yoga=Satan???? Yea right!!!
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| Cyndi - 2006-05-21 10:26 PM
God didn't create Satan...Human Beings created Satan!!
I disagree.
Satan exists to tempt your evil inclination and is an angel created by the Almighty God, doing as God wills.
Giving into your evil inclination and projecting a misinterpretation of the scriptures onto civilization will only lead to further misunderstanding
you may consult with your priest now. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I don't believe in Satan. I do believe Satan was created by the church for "control" measures and to scare people. I grew up in a Baptist church - the people were disgusting the way they behaved. The stories they told children was ridiculous...even today they are still doing it. Anyway, I am Hindu and also by marriage. There is no such thing as Satan as far as I'm concerned. I didn't believe it then, and I certainly don't believe it now. | |
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| Cyndi - 2006-05-22 9:24 AM
I don't believe in Satan. I do believe Satan was created by the church for "control" measures and to scare people. I grew up in a Baptist church - the people were disgusting the way they behaved. The stories they told children was ridiculous...even today they are still doing it. Anyway, I am Hindu and also by marriage. There is no such thing as Satan as far as I'm concerned. I didn't believe it then, and I certainly don't believe it now.
many a fundamentalist have collected their spiritual drinking water downstream from the herd
you need to go to the spring if you don't want to get sick
and using fear for spiritual discipline is wrong, i agree with you on that
but no matter what your affiliation is i believe that the true Almighty is
TOO GREAT to be defined by any religion
TOO GREAT to be fully comprehended by any human mind or soul
TOO GREAT to be defined
that's why i don't affiliate myself with any denomination,
but when it comes to reading scripture, i read the original stuff without interpretation, so that I can drink from the spring
not downstream from the herd
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| Fifi- Yes oh great one!
In all seriousness, I've been the Frisco, I spent two long years working for a dot bomb in Redwood city. I expected it to be a lot more open, laid-back, and friendly than the midwest, but I was sadly wrong. Maybe I hit it at the wrong time, or place, or some combination thereof, but I know more cool people here in Cincy than anywhere else. I also get along better with the women around here, though there seems to be a lack of red heads.... Can't have everything I suppose.
And yes, I've been a bit cranky lately, probably frustration as you said.
Cyndi- I saw an interesting feature on TDC on Sci-Fi. Surprisingly enough the show had a very strong Christian bias, since usually sci-fi stuff is anti-christian. Basically they called TDC one of the strongest attacks on Christianity in a long long time. They also spent a lot of time refuting a number of the claims made by Dan Brown, almost to the point of calling him a liar. Interesting stuff, though I've been ignoring the whole thing, since I'm not a Christian, and it seems a bit sensationalistic to me. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | GJ, I too saw that SCI Fi documentary...it was crazy. When I came out of the theater last night and watched people's faces...they were dumbfounded. Me and Satyam sat and watched everyone leave the theater. I told Satyam that these people in this theater had no clue whatsoever about what they just saw...they didn't understand the movie - period. Hell, they don't even understand what they do have presently, so how can they even go there and think about the contents of that movie...it's too scary for them. It was really sad to see the confusion on their faces..I felt so bad for them in the respect that they are just plain confused about everything and the church created this monster for them. I just pray for their souls to be liberated. | |
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| Cyndi - 2006-05-22 10:06 AM
GJ, I too saw that SCI Fi documentary...it was crazy.
How so? It seemed like they concretely refuted a number of Dan Brown's points. A few that stand out for me include:
1) The star under the church
2) The idea that there used to be a female counter part to JHVH
3) The gnostic texts
4) The idea that Jesus's divinity was voted on during the Council of Nicea
When I came out of the theater last night and watched people's faces...they were dumbfounded. Me and Satyam sat and watched everyone leave the theater. I told Satyam that these people in this theater had no clue whatsoever about what they just saw...they didn't understand the movie - period.
Probably not. I haven't seen the movie so it's hard to know if it's because the movie's confusing, or the ideas. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Personally GJ, I don't see how they could refute anything that has already been refuted over and over again. In fact, I don't think any of them know what the hell is going on when it comes to Jesus Christs' life...which is the reason I think the entire idea of Christianity and anything associated with it is UNSTABLE and far from the truth!
This was a movie and a very good movie. Whether there is any truth or not, in my mind and what I've witnessed in Christianity and the Church, I'm open to any and all possibilities. That's all I really have to say about it because it would be a waste of energy to try and debate this issue. | |
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| Cyndi - 2006-05-22 2:45 PM
which is the reason I think the entire idea of Christianity and anything associated with it is UNSTABLE and far from the truth!
well those christian types do some good charitable work around the world, and that's not bad
so there is some good coming out of it
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| Who knows, right? None of us were there. That council of Nicea must have been lots of fun. Gag.
I saw the movie last night and read the book in 2004. The book was good because of the art history in reference to da Vinci's paintings.
I bet Jesus and Mary Magdalene were really close friends. Have any of you ever had a really close friend of the opposite sex? I have. Nothing sexual, just a close friendship. I'm also betting that Jesus was an aesthetic (is that the correct word?) like the Buddha. They were not of the material world, they transcended it. Wasn't Jesus homeless? Well, He was a carpenter, so maybe He built himself a home.
It is all very interesting, indeed. Look at how many people are hungry for spirituality - they are very interested and, I think, investigating whether the Church pulled a fast one on them.
I worked for Catholic Charities in SF for a while and they donate 90% of their donations to the community. They spend only 10% on overhead! I thought that was amazing. The bad Christians always steal the spotlight. In the end, whatever religion we practice, God doesn't forget us. He will always be there in our time of need. | |
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| *Fifi* - 2006-05-22 3:26 PM
I worked for Catholic Charities in SF for a while and they donate 90% of their donations to the community. They spend only 10% on overhead! I thought that was amazing.
Right on
and this is really where the rubber hits the road
Rhetoric is crap, money and actions are real
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| my boss likes to ask
"Who is taking care of the hungry, the sick, the poor?"
more often than not it is the catholic charities carrying the burden that so many of us like to pretend aren't there. | |
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