Honestly, I don't know how Zoebird does it. That's a lot of classes!

zoebird - 2006-02-07 7:08 PM

Part of the stamina that i have comes from the fact that i do a lot of work to energeticly seal myself

But, it's absolutely imperative to take non-yoga vacations on a regular basis. this helps reduce burn out and makes you feel human.

twisti - 2006-02-08 7:42 AM

I have an opportunity coming up, 20 classes over 5 days. People are telling me it might be too much but it will all be in the one (freaken amazing) studio in a wonderful location that I will be living close to. So no running round here and there and no organising on my behalf needed.

I think its a goer ...

How do you do that?

I also notice that you pack your lunch. Anything interesting, or just the usual sandwiches, etc.

I found it was better to just let the whole thing drop for a bit.

For me, what would be hard about teaching yoga is not so much the schedules
you've described as the potential repetition of it. Do you find that you are teaching
the same thing again and again, or can you vary and evolve it enough to keep it
interesting?

And do your students stick with it and absorb what you are teaching them?

zoebird - 2006-02-08 4:14 PM



Well, it's a number of factors.

it can be very good. It can often refresh the student for the practice when they come home too.

for teachers, though, there's a tendency to want a yoga vacation because so much of our yoga lives are spent teaching and practicing independently, and taking a class or going on a retreat really is a treat.

Do you get my meaning? anyway, continuing ed is important. But, vacation is also, and a vacation away from yoga (entirely) can be a great rest that recharges the teacher for work when s/he returns.

This is problematic, since opening yourself up via these approaches also opens you up for attack.

I would also advise you to rethink your current strategy of pulling away from people. Done with a lack of tact, this can be more of an attack. Retreating also not always an option, since you may have to deal with the person or situation again in the future.

I was also vacationing with my folks, and didn't want to deal with the funkiness of any conflict or interest they might express in my "weird eastern stuff". Little bit too disruptive of my practice, so I figured not doing it was easier than dealing with whatever they put into the mix.

This is also the reason why I switch my schedule around, and don't do the traditional six days a week. To easy to get burnt out.

zoebird - 2006-02-09 9:50 AM



attack from whom or what? i generally don't feel attacked when i do these things, though growth has it's challenges. but, i guess i'm so comfortable with those challenges (and expect them), that i don't consider it problematic or something that should concern me. The same equanimity that i have in meditation can be maintained through the growth process.

also, each of these is a way of 'sealing off' the energy that i have. Or, perhaps it was misstated initally.

this can only be done through contemplation. It is obvious to me that while i may come highly recommended or a student may come to me for this or that reason (or through recommendation), that the student 'isn't for me' nor 'i for them.' There's never any animosity when i decide to forgo a job or a client, as i always explain my reasons for it (including energetic/time constraints), and i always provide them with a couple of other options--other teachers to call and consider.

During the process it can get annoying sometimes, between the knocks at the door, and the phone ringing.

There's also a certain point at which you just become overly sensitive. You become to aware of all the things going on that you really can't deal with. You see all the petty dramas going on internally, and with your folks, and with all the people you know. Maybe this is what you're refering to as growing pains, maybe not. Maybe it's a matter of out psyching myself.

St. John of the Cross talks about everything getting burned off as dross by the process, so that all your old stuff just seems completely gross and disgusting. Things that once seemed fine, are exposed in the bright light of a greater purity to be sick and diseased.

While all these changes are going on, we're still in the world, and forced to deal with it. In my case I still have to go to work, and attempt to earn a pay check.

Well h&ll ~ I was going to explore meditation a little more in depth, but if it's going to make me over sensitive, screw that. I'll stick to being blissfully oblivious.

zoebird - 2006-02-09 11:34 AM



i spend most of my day alone, without phones ringing or people coming to my door. i have few friends, most of whom work while i'm meditating. I do most of my meditating in the afternoon, away from the phone (i'll actually disconnect it), and if i hear a doorbell or knock (from a delivery person), then i simply embrace it as part of the practice as well, as i would the sound of a crow. Perhaps this comes from thich naht hanh's recommendations.

not necessarily, but it does happen. usually the unguided meditator will become overly sensitive or have other problems. but, it's not necessarily going to happen.

i don't know if this is irritating though. what it shows me, when things are brought to light, is where my work lies, and then i set about to make changes. I start with small changes, and i rely on both contemplation and meditation to provide clarity in the changes that i need to make. the meditation and contemplation are part of the purification process. not only do they point out what needs to be changed/done, but they also provide clarity on how to do it effectively.

Guilt, irritation, all of that isn't necessary. Recognizing that it happens, that it's where i was/were, and that i'm now in the process of changing is enough. For me, this comes out of meditation techniques as well. In some techniques, they say "if you find yoruself daydreaming during meditation, recognize it as a day dream, without judgement, and then let it pass." and/or 'if you find yourself thinking during meditation, acknowledge the thought, and let the thoughts pass through your mind like clouds in the sky." To me, in a sense, recognizing the 'sick' things that i am or do is something that i can do without judgement. I do not judge clouds moving through the sky, nor thoughts moving thruogh my mind in meditation, so why would i so harshly judge myself for being human, errant, and making mistakes? particularly now, when it doesn't serve me to do so, because i have other work to do--that is, the work of moving away form those attachments and behavoirs into more positive ones.

For me, meditation is a touchstone for clarity in my life, a place of peace and a place where i can practice the equanimity necessary to move through the world in mindfulness, to do everything from that balanced, peaceful, mindful space. I haven't mastered it by a long shot. but, i feel that it is very helpful to me, so i do it often.

I think I'm attempting to point to a more general problem, though maybe dealing directly with the details might be a better approach.

Maybe, maybe not. Part of the reason I started going to class and visiting the site was to compare notes. FWIW, I'm not really sure what you mean by unguided. I've yet to speak with anybody who could go beyond the simple exoteric explainations of meditation, for a variety of reasons. Maybe I need to keep looking.

I think this is part of the reason why so many people are ignorant, it's partially willed because they don't know how to deal with the situation.

that meditation is hard, or going to cause problems, or make some things worse. Maybe I'm more willing to talk about the darkness because I don't have to sell any books, or I'm just more comfortable being negative. As an engineer, my first question is "What is this going to cost me?", "What are the trade-offs"

zoebird - 2006-02-09 1:24 PM



i don't know what the 'general problem' you're refering to is.

i see it in this way. meditation won't make things worse, but it isn't an easy fix or an easy path. it certainly has difficulties and i admit that. All growth has difficulties, and one's perspective on this process has a great bearing on whether or not this is 'getting worse' or actually 'getting better.'

This, to me, is a great example of injury. Say we have a psychic or psychological injury. As a child, i suffered a trauma. As a result of that trauma, i started behaving in these particular, negative (or less productive or less healthy) behavoiral patterns. Over many years, i prepetuated these patterns causing a recurrent problem. I couldn't figure out 'why this keeps happening to me.' So, i go to the psychologist and she helps me uncover the childhood trauma and my response to it--the pattern of relating that kept causing, or caused in part, the recurrent problem. I have to face this original problem and heal it properly, learning to understand what happened, embrace it in a sense, work through it, and learn new patterns of behavoir. All of this is hard work, and things seem to get much WORSE before they get much better.

You do know what I mean when I talk about the airy-fairy nonsense right?

Which might be what I need to do, is find a decent psychologist.

GreenJello -
You can do that, I think it depends on how you want to deal with the sh!t. You can either see it coming, and prepare, or get smacked full in the face w/o warning. Ignorance is NOT strength, despite what Orwell would have you believe.

zoebird - 2006-02-08 4:39 PM

BG:

You ask a lot of great, and interesting, and important questions. So, i'll try to answer them. *fingers crossed*



Because i generally teach all-levels classes, there are many things that i do 'again and again'--but i have a reason for it. I teach a lot of alignment, a lot of vinyasa transitional alignment, and so i focus a great deal on the details of poses. It takes time to gain the requisite strength and balance to learn even some of the most basic poses, and if i have brand-new-beginners in my class, there is a focus on the fundamentals--sometimes heavily modified versions of poses to help balance out the new bodies so that they can get to learning the fundamental postures of the practices that i teach.

Similarly, it can take years to master even the most basic posture. Most students are happy to have repitition--and repitition is important. I make sure that most classes include some of the same postures class to class, though occassionally i'll skip some postures in favor of others depending upon the classes' individual needs. I have some classes that are more advanced/experienced students; i have other classes that are predominently beginners; i have some classes that are in between; and private clients also vary widely.





do they absorb what i'm teaching them? this is a hard question to answer. From an asana perspective, i'd say the answer is yes. As we work on alignment, on sequencing theory, largely thruogh repitition, they do begin to get it. For some postures, it comes quickly, and less so for other postures, depending upon where the individual started out on their path--their body awareness, their fitness and health, injuries and so on. For the more esoteric stuff, it often takes more repitition--but most students start to 'feel it' or 'get it' once they've been practicing two or three years, as they have a firm grasp of the language of the physical body, and begin to move into the more subtle realms of the energy body, perhaps finally grasping the bandhas from an energetic standpoint rather than an anatomical one. The anatomical may have been achieved in a few months or a year or so, but then the esoteric will click after that. Usually, i spend a lot of time repeating the basics of both the anatomical descriptions and the energetic, and those in the class who are ready for whichever one will 'get it' and often share when they get it as well.

So, i guess the short answer is "yes."

Kabu - 2006-02-09 7:24 PM



Can't there be a happy medium though? Maybe a place where you can be comfortable and open with people but still spot "crazy" (or "difficult" or whatever adjective you want to give a person) soon enough to avoid it.

Kabu - 2006-02-10 9:43 AM

Actually, I'm glad you wrote all that. I found myself wondering about this thread yesterday on and off.

How long have you been in this new job? Do you feel like there is (or was) a certain amount of time that has to pass before you mentally "decompress" from all the crap you went through?

My husband has been been dealing with various degrees of turmoil for several years, which is why he's getting out too. But it's going to follow him for a bit unfortunately, not just mentally but physically as well (legal issues Nothing like saving someone's life and getting sued for it. ). So it'll be nipping at his heals for some time.

I love the idea of counseling! I saw a guy last summer for a few months and really liked the whole process. Gotta click with the counselor though (mine was a big, friendly Irish dude got to a point where I think I was just going for the laughs).

Anyway, I'm happy you escaped the Valley!

If your husband is interested, I'd strongly advise some yoga.

Kabu - 2006-02-10 11:06 AM



Oy, I wish. He won't touch it with a ten foot pole.

He's struggling on all kinds of levels: physically, mentally, spiritually. I know this transition won't happen overnight, but I'm really looking forward to starting the process. I believe better things for him lay ahead.

If he were to try a few classes at our studio, I'd have to bow out. He knows exactly what will crack me up and cannot resist doing so. I can't even get through a practice at home if he's in the room.

Still...I'd happily move aside to make space for him. *sigh* Seeing you make a similar transition gives me great hope!

JackieCat - 2006-02-11 7:30 AM

To get back to the topic at hand . . . does anyone else teach lots of classes per week? If so, what's your schedule and how do you do it?

twisti - 2006-02-11 12:29 PM
I was also teaching a few classes at a few places I really just didn't resonate with, with students who needed a lot of energy (you know, the types that just sit there and stare like energtic vampires!?) I was also just starting with a lot of these classes and was needing to do most of the poses which was tiring too.

skatrenah - 2006-02-12 3:36 PM Does your husband do any exercise? Try getting him to do Pilates. Granted he won't get the full benefits of yoga, but it would be a step in the right direction. Also, some studies have shown that cardio exercise is a real help with depression. I'm not sure I would have embarked on a "spiritual journey" at that point in my life. If your husband is not ready for yoga yet, try to get him active. Start with the body. Hope that the mind and spirit will follow. Sharon

Kabu - 2006-02-12 2:18 PM

Oh man, he is resistant with a capital R. He would never say this out loud, but I think he feels it's a girl thing. Add to that his super tight hamstrings and his macho ego, and you can imagine it's like talking to a brick wall.

To be brutally honest here, he's totally lost on all levels. It breaks my heart when he asks me, "How can you have such faith?" Mentally, he's worn out (though he's forced to prepare to defend himself and his colleagues in an upcoming trial). Physically, he's slowly falling apart. There's a terrible history of heart problems and cancer in his family, so you can imagine what goes through my mind.

zoebird - 2006-02-14 9:09 AM
It seems that in our culture, women are more open to 'new' (as in newly introduced) spiritual and other ideas, and men are more entrenched.

A lot of this comes from the fear of loosing sight of one's prescribed social gender. The pressure on male identity is massive, and it is also very narrow. Any tiny misstep or step away from comfortable, prescribed masculinity can cause a huge social hammer to come down.

This, of course, leads to a great deal of male suffering--and i see it all around me. Even men in my classrooms, who longingly look at the women's clothing wishing that there was something comparable for men--the right sorts of wicking materials, clothing that fits, but isn't fitted like a glove or sausage wrapper.

This hasn't been my experience. Woman certainly dominate the yoga scene, but outside of this arena, I see men predominantly. Further more, men have traditionally been culturally conditioned to be the explorers, to go out and try new things, while women have been trained to stay at home, and socialize.

This has a lot more to do with the expectations and rules of the society we live in. This is a general problem and really has nothing to do with gender. It also applies to just about any micro-society you care to mention. Even the "non-conformist" hippies had their uniforms of tie-dyes and blue jeans.

There certainly aren't a lot of "yoga" clothes for men, obviously due to a lack of market. However, there are a lot of other places to get comparable things. I see a lot of people with Prana stuff, and one of my office mates has a nice wicking shirt from Nike. It's supposedly for runners, but I don't think it will self-destruct if I took it into a yoga studio.

zoebird - 2006-02-14 11:38 AM

i've listened to countless women describe how their husbands do not have interest in various philosophical, social, or spiritual leanings--of any sort, including those in which they were raised but that they insist that their children be raised in the same spiritual surroundings that they were, even if neither man or the woman who would take the responsibility for doing this actually believes in that tradition. finding happy mediums are also difficult for many women i know, who want to give their children a religious education, but their husband are either uninterested or insistant on a particular 'brand.'

It seems to me that the spiritual education and spiritual realms are largely supported by women, even though they're largely lead by a few men. traditional christian churches tend to be lead by men, but actually run by women--women making up the majority of the numbers.

A quick glance around in most churches during services demonstrates this--as well as how engaged in the services the individuals are.

Or at least, if they are seeking it, they're not at all communicating it to the women around them.

Those men who do, like my husband, also report that other men see him as very unusual and far less masculine than they see themselves. That to be spiritual, or a concept of 'too spiritual' is to be 'airy fairy' and that is problematic to the male gender.

While men may be conditioned to be explorers, i rarely see men stepping out of their prescribed gender roles of work, spectator sports, and a few other narrow categories of behavior (some more or less related to women). I've watched many men my own age and older fight the very notion of trying something new--from new works of fiction to new activities to new ideas. Whereas, most women i know are always seeking to learn something new, to try something new (for themselves, their families, their children, or their communities), and they often have to drag their husbands into it or leave them behind to "watch the game" or whatever else.

Kabu's experience about her husband being resistant is the most resounding complaint that i hear about men and about husbands--how they won't try various personal, couple, or family activities, and how most of the responsibility for this comes from the woman in the house.

But, is there a lack of market? Men have been doing yoga in the US for many years, and the numbers of men in yoga classes are increasing. Early on, it would be rare to have a man in class--maybe one man for every 30 women.

Today, we're seeing a much greater number. I have classes that have more men thatn women in them. I have men in all except two of my classes--and those classes are specialized and small. My most consistant private client is male. Certainly, there is a market in yoga clothing for men.

This issue of fashion actually comes up after the image that you gave--with the concept of the Great Renunciation.

this issue of fashion comes into play from another angle. with the advent of the 20th century, women's fashions expanded to include male fashion, which expanded the social concepts of female identity.

Thus far, it has closed, moreso than opened. There are rare exceptions, of course, such as a young man that my husband and I saw at the movie theater not long ago, dressed in a long, flowing floral skirt, a t shirt and a baggy sweat shirt. he wore this with a pair of wollen socks and clogs.

He looked strikingly masculine (to me), and it was obvious that he was male.

it seems that in the younger groups, masculinity is taking on different structures and outward displays.

the term transvestite is loaded in our culture. It's loaded with a sense of sexual deviance and shame.

I admit, it's such a fine line between the black ono pant from prana (made for women, but worn by many men) and a black pair of running tights from nike. No one, to look at either clothing item, would necessarily say "this is masculine. this is feminine."

And if we do, why we don't consider women wearing a man's suit or men's jeans, or pants in general, as transvestitism.

There's also the fun social past time of "Isn't it terrible" which figures into any b!tching session. From your description it's hard to tell if this is a deep felt need, or a fun thing to complain about.

Once again, not a church goer, but is this a matter of spiritual particpation, or a social event within the church? In our society women spend a lot of time organizing social events because they're just more social. They also tend to have more time, since less women have full time jobs than men.

I try not to gage people by the shows they put on in these sorts of settings, I think it's almost impossible to tell what's really going on internally. (Which is another good reason to wear a Death Metal T-Shirt to a yoga studio)

That may be a more accurate assessment, or if they are communicating it, it's at a level the woman don't understand or can't related to. We can discuss whether this is social or hardwired, but I believe that men and women approach these matters differently, which can result in problems communicating things that are pretty ineffiable to begin with.

For example, a lot of men use hunting and fishing to commune with nature. I'd consider this spiritual, a lot of women probably wouldn't.

I also think that a lot of people find various spiritual paths that are not the "brand" (love that term) they're used too to be weird or strange. Frankly, I've learned to keep my mouth shut in most circumstances because I don't want to deal with the social repercussions of stepping out of line.

But you're also hearing this from the woman. It's also hard to say what other things lead up to this. Maybe their SOs have already tried X, Y, or Z, maybe it's not good for them, or maybe the woman are playing some other game associated with the activity.

FWIW, I don't think most people would use the term "transvestite", but rather cross dresser.

We're used to it.

JackieCat - 2006-02-14 2:14 PM

Or, there are guys like my husband who think one of the best parts of being a guy is not having to fuss with his appearance, wear makeup, etc.

zoebird -
The pressure on male identity is massive, and it is also very narrow.

zoebird - 2006-02-14 4:49 PM



i don't know whether or not religious education or going to services is a social event or not.

It's just that she needed to go to church--for reasons neither of them seem to understand, and she insisted that he go too "for the baby."

similarly, many women do work full time, with children, as do their husbands. so it's difficult to say--with the statistical majority of women who have children are working as well--that they have more time for these sorts of things.

to me, it seems like women are interested in or tapped into something--spiritual need or what have you--that drags them back to church once they have children.

while i agree to a point, when a person is reading a grisham novel or what have you in church, it's fair to say that they're not likely paying attention. same with people who are sleeping during church, or appear to be listening to headphones. it's surprising how many men and women are doing this in church, while their kids are with them, reading children's books. I often wonder what, exactly, they're doing there. And, it's not just christian churches either, weird enough.

In any cae, males analyze more and communicate less (from grey matter to grey matter), where as women calculate less and communicate more (as indicated by the less grey but more white). So women's breins are utilizing more communication processes--calling on different areas of grey matter) to arrive at a certain conclusion, whereas male brains are localizing their calculating in one parea of grey matter or those that are close to each other and connected through white matter. The studies were from the Univ. of Calif. at Irvine. Interesing huh?

But, i don't think that it per se means that it's impossible, or even improbable for these two groups to share their experiences and understand each other.

I'm not trying to disparage men at all. Goodness knows i value them so very highly.

I think it's difficult for me, or Kabu for example, to watch men self destruct when they dont' have to, when their are options, but they won't consider those options for fear of being seen as 'less than.' i would like to think that 'less than' doesn't exist between sexes, genders, or whatever else. "different" certainly does, but it doesn't imply "less than."

this certainly goes beyond gender. but, i personally feel that men have it harder in this regard than women. women are already marginalized, so to be marginalized a little farther is no big deal for me. for my husband to be marginalized, it's difficult for him. he finds htat it's even more difficult for other men--at least those who would share their feelings on the matter who are already, i guess, different.

Also, don't get caught in the fashion example itself. it's just meant to be an example of something playing out. it's not absolute, of course, and it's only one of many things. For me, it's accessable, because my male clients were talking (and complaining) about it recently.

But, when it first happened, we weren't used to it. Women used to be arrested, jailed overnite, and fined for wearing pants in public--it was considered 'public indecency' for 'transvestitism.' While women have worn pants for practical reasons since they were invented, women caught doing so (while still 'being' women, as opposed to women who were caught living as men--transgendered--while serving in the army or some such) would often be jailed for it.

afterall, you're not doing anything at work that would require pants, now do you? my work does, but programming computers all day likely doesn't, does it?

but this begs the question then, does a woman have to fuss with her appearance, wear make up, etc?

zoebird - 2006-02-14 4:53 PM



but this begs the question then, does a woman have to fuss with her appearance, wear make up, etc? is there something inherent in women that makes this necessary, or is this simply another aspect of gender stratification, meaning heaped on actions and outward displays to demonstrate differences between the sexes?

honestly, i don't wear make up, i don't fuss too much over clothing (i'm pretty simple about it really), and i don't do anything with my hair, and i shave my legs occassionally. seriously, my husband cares far more about his appearance than i do about mine. If i'm clean and neat, i'm happy. He thinks about what he's going to wear, what goes with what, he has a whole skin-care regime, he's picky about his hair/hairstyle, he loves jewelry. . .get the idea? It doesn't make him less masculine or me less feminine because we're different than our common social gender constructs.

right?