|
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
   
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | Everyone has their own special "thang" as far as teaching. What is your special Yoga Signature for students.
Slide into a student role and think, "what would they describe the experience as?". What do you enjoy the most in your class? QPeace, sharing, etc.....
This should be so informative for all of us. Let's share on?
My big thing is having different music for each class (all classes) I mx all of my songs and load onto my ipod with looping and transitions to be continuous.
I also like to use essential oils to create a certain feeling, depending on the time of day.
Daitme, early, jasmine or verbena
nightime, lavender, ylang-ylang, bulgarian rose, and oris root.
I prefer teaching by candlelight.
The list can go on. I love it and it fuels me up.
Let's share peeps! 
Mishy | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
 
| I'm silly. I tell dumb stories. When I say "go get a block" I back track and tell them "one block each, not just one for the whole class..." I steal other teacher's lines - in hard poses I'll say "and look ridiculously happy!" or remind them in the final minutes of a long hold that it is considered auspicious to die in a yoga pose. And I apparently chant the invocation to Patanjali very nicely. I get compliments  | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | That;s cool Tourist. I like a sense of balance, which for me means making others laugh and smile.
Thanks for sharing....Wink...Wink
Mish | |
| | |
| I think everybody steals somebodies stuff. The trick is to do it well, and make it your own.  | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | That's true. It is also true that there are some who are boring! no personality.  | |
| | |
| I've been told I have "presence" and that I'm "nurturing".
Carole
 | |
| | |
| YogaMommy - 2006-02-18 10:44 PM
I've been told I have "presence" and that I'm "nurturing".
People keep telling me I have good energy. I'm not really sure what they mean.... It's very odd to me.
Ex: I went to a lecture on Zen Buddhism, with a real live Zen Buddhist Monk. I asked a question about whether there was progress in Zen or not, which has been bothering me for quite some time. He and I kinda got into it a bit, on a completely friendly basis, and after the lecture everybody wanted to shake my hand, and congradulate me on a good question. I just don't get it, I just wanted an answer, which I didn't get. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Classic Zen, eh?  | |
| | |
| Real Eastern teachers almost never give you a straight answer. I spent some time at an ashram and almost every time I asked a question, someone smiled at me and asked what I thought about it.
| |
| | |
| tourist - 2006-02-19 11:47 AM
Classic Zen, eh?
Almost, the whole place really "stinks of Zen".
Real Eastern teachers almost never give you a straight answer. I spent some time at an ashram and almost every time I asked a question, someone smiled at me and asked what I thought about it.
Sure, I pretty much expected the answer I got, which was probably the reason he and I went back and forth. I understand that generally the answer to most questions in Zen is a direct demonstration of the answer, rather than any words. The thing that really surprised me was the a lot of the audience members seemed to think that my question was any better than anybody elses. This goes back to some other things I've been noticing lately, frankly I beginning to wonder if I have a halo or something..... | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | mishoga - 2006-02-18 8:47 PM
This should be so informative for all of us. Let's share on?
My big thing is having different music for each class (all classes) I mx all of my songs and load onto my ipod with looping and transitions to be continuous.
I also like to use essential oils to create a certain feeling, depending on the time of day.
Daitme, early, jasmine or verbena
nightime, lavender, ylang-ylang, bulgarian rose, and oris root.
I prefer teaching by candlelight.
The list can go on. I love it and it fuels me up.
Not to start anything here and this is not to offend anyone, however, this kinda stuff is exactly what turns me off to practicing Yoga in a studio. I think it turns off other people as well. I can think of several people I know that would avoid these studios just for this reason. They think it is wierd. I don't necessarily mind EO's being used in subtle places like the restroom in the studio, like a neutral Lavender is nice and soothing.
But, the music thing and candlelites is a bit too much, and sometimes it looks so cheesy and not what I consider Yoga to be. When I practice to music at home, it is of my choosing and my mood. It is a very personal thing. I'm very selective and picky about music to practice to and again, it's personal. I'll never forget once I went to my studio and found the substitute teacher to be the teacher of the day. She drove me crazy with her hip-hop music all the way through a Hot/Bikram yoga class. I was so glad to get the hell out of there. I just think its inappropriate to have music in yoga class....unless of course, there is however an ongoing Hot Music class in my area. I haven't been in a long time, even though I was expecting music...I just didn't like the way I felt afterwards, but at least I KNEW to expect it.
Sometimes what we think is so wonderful and great, may not be so great and wonderful for others. If we are going to be good at our jobs of teaching, and guard the quality of yoga, we must respect this aspect and keep it as neutral and simple as possible. Besides, people need to know that you don't have to spend tons of $$ on music, ipods, expensive yoga mats and bags, clothes, candles and essential oils to practice yoga and to be successful in their yoga practice. It sends the wrong message. | |
| | |
| And I'm just the opposite. I LOVE what Mishy does, and it's very similar to the atmosphere in our studio. A neutral atmosphere would be okay, but it wouldn't be nearly as much fun for me (and I'm one of those who finds Yoga playful and fun...I can tell Tourist would be my kind of teacher).
Good thing there's enough room for all styles, since our practices seem to be as individual as our personalities. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | Cyndi, I agree with you that we don't have to spend tons of money on "Things". That is not what yoga is about. Personally for myself, I find lighting lavender candles (for this one particular class I teach) helps elliminate the strench from the previous kick boxing class (30-40 students).
It also seems to relax my students. I have had all positive feedback, with more and more students returning every week.
As far as the aromatheray, I use this to create a sense of relaxation, well-being, etc..... Did you know in certain cultures that lavender flowers are thrown on the floors of recovery rooms to help heal through sense of smell? I pick my scents depending on what time of day it is. I've had nothing but positive reactions from my students. My students dictate how our time together progresses and to what degree. I like to open people to experience things they might not on their own. It has proved to be very pleasing
As far as music, that is personal. If someone walked into my class and was turned off either by my style, music, etc....they have the choice to not return. That is what is wonderful. Everyone has the ability to decide what is right for them.
Saying that Yoga should be taught by strict guidelines is behaving like the Roman Catholic church. If you don't follow their rules you're consider a bad catholic. I don't buy it. For me, I think Yoga, as with art and music, is an expression of each individual instructor. That is why some instructors are in demand and some are not. Charisma plays a significant role.
I personally don't like a quiet class style. I would not put another down for deciding to go that route but I would not return to that class. Choices! We are lucky we have the right to make individual choices.
Peace out!
Mishy | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Lori,
Don't get me wrong, at home I do all these things and probably more than you guys can even imagine. I have 3 alters in my home that have sesame and/or ghee lamps and tea lites burning continuously while I'm at home and while sleeping. In fact, I keep a tea lite burning in front of Shiva all night long. I burn incense on a regular basis, I particularly like Nippon Kodo's NK Pure line of natural scents - they are less offensive and are made of all natural pure ingredients, with Green Tea being my absolute favorite. I have an I-pod with over 3,000 songs on it (that's only 1/4 of my collection) and 3/4 of these 3,000 songs are mostly New Age/Jazz/Yoga/Relaxation/Indian Chanting music. I have several yoga mats, and buy top of the line "My Tonic" Yoga clothing, in fact, I have more Yoga clothes than I do regular clothes.
The point is that NOT everyone can either afford it, tolerate it, and may not share the same interest that I do when it comes to keeping alters and living a hindu life. Some if not MOST people think this is wierd. In fact, I don't invite many people to my home for this very reason. The other point is that NON of this is necessary for a complete Yoga practice..in fact, I could do without all of it...except the alters, lamps and incense...and of course, some clothes would be nice since I don't particularly care to do yoga in the nude, I'm afraid Brucebhai would be lurking around the window, | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Actually Mishoga I've been using EO's for many many years, I know the value of them, but they are not necessary for Yoga practice and can be very offensive to some if not most people.
Your comments here:
"Saying that Yoga should be taught by strict guidelines is behaving like the Roman Catholic church. If you don't follow their rules you're consider a bad catholic. I don't buy it. For me, I think Yoga, as with art and music, is an expression of each individual instructor. That is why some instructors are in demand and some are not. Charisma plays a significant role"
I think this works both ways. You are contradicting yourself because in essence you yourself are forcing your "Yoga Methods" onto other people. These methods that you are enforcing, like music, incense, and candles traditionally are not part of the yoga practice. This is something that yoga instructors such as yourself have created and is the reason Yoga gets a bad reputation here in the west. I personally don't like the choices offered here in America and I think its the reasons so many studios go out of business all the time. There is no consistency in the class and in the yoga instructor's sometimes ridiculous methods of teaching.
If someone walked out of my studio because of the music I was playing and my arrogance in not being considerate by either turning it off or adjusting it in some way, I would feel very bad and I would see a great big loss on that potential student's behalf. That is a great big tragedy and is BS as far as I'm concerned. You call that yoga?? I don't.
You also stated:
"I personally don't like a quiet class style. I would not put another down for deciding to go that route but I would not return to that class. Choices! We are lucky we have the right to make individual choices"
More arrogance and a big mis-representation of yoga.....period.
In your first post on this thread you stated:
"Slide into a student role and think, "what would they describe the experience as?". What do you enjoy the most in your class? QPeace, sharing, etc....."
Then when you hear what a student would experience, from what you have stated and commented so far, all I can see is that all you care about is what *your* experience is, NOT what the student's experience is. To me that is so self-centered and your right at this point, I'm glad we have choices to see these kinds of characters. Have a good day.
Edited by Cyndi 2006-02-20 3:00 PM
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | I disagree with you. I don't think yoga has a bad rap. Yoga is the number one fitness regime that has grown in the past seven years bypassing all others forms of fitness.
And I'm not forcing anything one anyone. Remember.....CHOICES!!!!
I also respect my students tremendously and that is why I have a loyal following. They decide on music, flow of class, scents, lights, temperature, etc.... before class starts.
They know I will do as they wish. I haven't met that many instructors who teach in this manner.
This style works for me. This is my likes and obviously I am going to instruct in a style that reflects me.
How can this be taken down when this only applies to me and my students.
You just made me think of this instructor in one of the gyms I teach a kids yoga class. She is so adament about her style of yoga she will openly put other instructors down or go out of her way to convince her students why her way is the only way. It is a form of sabotage, but the funny thing is it can backfire on her. Students are becoming bored of her style. I don't get that?
If you are confident in your own style why worry about how others decide to lead students to a path of yoga?
Just a thought
Mish
Edited by mishoga 2006-02-20 3:07 PM
| |
| | |
|
nd of course, some clothes would be nice since I don't particularly care to do yoga in the nude, I'm afraid Brucebhai would be lurking around the window,
Plus she's 98, so probably not the hottest momma on the block.... | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | GreenJello - 2006-02-20 3:18 PM
nd of course, some clothes would be nice since I don't particularly care to do yoga in the nude, I'm afraid Brucebhai would be lurking around the window,
Plus she's 98, so probably not the hottest momma on the block....
GJ, nope, not the hottest on the block at all!! Actually, she's older than 98 and ancient. She who has been around since before the sands of time, you still ain't figured out that face on my picture yet!!
It's not Barbara Eden either....she's older than Jeanie,
Edited by Cyndi 2006-02-20 3:25 PM
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Well, I was just at a workshop with a *true* Indian Yoga Master who made the comment that Yoga in America was very disconcerning and that the 2 main yoga types (names withheld) were putting out teachers way too soon. I already knew that.
You can disagree with me all you want. Like I said earlier, in your original post to this thread you wanted to get inside a students head and learn what their experience was..well, you got it and I'm truly sorry you don't like what you got. Ask and you shall receive.
Don't compare me to some gym yoga teacher...you don't know me at all and don't even think for one minute that you do. Yoga has been around for thousands of years and has done very well. It's only in the past 25 years that it has gone through some very major destructive changes. Changes that people like you have altered and ruined. So don't talk to me about rigidity and sabatoge. Preserving Yoga and protecting the dharma is very important if yoga is to survive and flourish. The way things are going now in the US, Yoga is just a trend, not a practice. It will fizzle out very quickly. A *true* Yoga practice and a *true* Yoga aspirant will never die, it lives on because of the heritage and the originating location which is in India, will guard and protect it. You can keep doing whatever you want, no one is going to stop you. This is America, so do what you feel is best. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | Cyndi, when will you learn the art of "agreeing to disagree"? Lighten up!
This was a light question asked of all. I know you disagree. You seem to disagree with what many say here.
How narrow it is to try so hard to make people agree with your way of thinking. I wish you luck in your quest.
I do not wish to have aggressive, and combatative conversation. I like life to be enjoyable. There is enough conflict in this world and in each one of our lives. Why bring it here?
You're so knowledgable. Why are you so bent on correcting others to what you see as the right way? Is this your yoga way of life?
Mish
Please excuse me for this (for the peeps who don't know me) Me and Cyndi seem to bump all the time. | |
| | |
| mishoga -
Cyndi, when will you learn the art of "agreeing to disagree"?
It is an art form, isn't it? It can be difficult to learn, but once you get it, it's such a relief. It's way less effort. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Don't try to patronize me Mishoga and don't tell me how I should act and speak in my postings.
You are being very judgemental and you are totally out of line about me. You don't know what you are talking about.
You on the other hand are the one who seems to not be able to take the criticism and you seem to have a low tolerance for other ideas yourself. Don't put words in my mouth. I have every right to post here until I get kicked off this board, just like you do. I also have my experience and knowledge regarding yoga to share as well. You are not the only one. I'm going to remind you again, You, not me, asked the original question about a student's experience and you got what you asked for. Again, I am truly sorry that my statements and experience do not match with yours. Just because I disagree does not mean that I don't know the art of agreeing to disagree. I simply am quite the opposite from most people and am NOT the majority. I come from a traditional background and I take my practice very seriously. I only replied to this thread to help balance it out. It is not a "light" manner when you start interferring with the yoga practice the way its been done here in the US. One of these days you may be able to figure this out, you may not. There are so many of us who have figured it out....you should consider yourself lucky to be having this conversation with me as I'm one of the rare few. | |
| | |
| mishoga - 2006-02-20 3:57 PM
Please excuse me for this (for the peeps who don't know me) Me and Cyndi seem to bump all the time.
Don't think it's just you.... I think tourist is the only person that hasn't bumped heads with her yet, but then Glenda's way to nice to start anything with anybody.
In this case I think it's matter of presentation. She's often got some good points, but she's not very good at presenting them. Or dealing with any disagreement.
Edited by GreenJello 2006-02-20 4:16 PM
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | GreenJello - 2006-02-20 4:14 PM
mishoga - 2006-02-20 3:57 PM
Please excuse me for this (for the peeps who don't know me) Me and Cyndi seem to bump all the time.
Don't think it's just you.... I think tourist is the only person that hasn't bumped heads with her yet, but then Glenda's way to nice to start anything with anybody.
Actually, Glenda and I have had our moments...you weren't here GJ. Besides, I think Glenda and I have a mutual respect for one another as fellow yoga practictioners. I personally have a high respect for Glenda and I hope she feels somewhat mutual towards me. At least Glenda has an open mind. Please do not meddle in this and make these kinds of comments about me and Glenda. I really don't care if people agree or disagree or not with me. That is not my job to sit here and play patsy to people on this forum. I'm here for entertainment and the knowledge exchange just as much as anybody. If your looking for new fans to the "Mishoga" Club, I am not interested in joining, like I said, I only posted to balance out the thread. NOT everyone likes incense, musica and candles, Jesus Christ! | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | Cyndi, you just can't refrain from insulting me, can you? I sit here smiling knowing that I have such an impact on you. It's quite the compliment.
I think we can move on now. I AGREE TO DISAGREE, without personally attacking you.
peace!
Oh by the way, I asked about your experience, not what you thought of mine. Thought I should clear that up for you since you misunderstood my topic.
Edited by mishoga 2006-02-20 4:27 PM
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | GreenJello - 2006-02-20 4:14 PM
In this case I think it's matter of presentation. She's often got some good points, but she's not very good at presenting them. Or dealing with any disagreement.
Whatever, that is what you think, I can't help that. I am not having a difficult time dealing with this, I could care less. Since when did you have the ability to know what I am thinking...your not that advanced yet GJ, sorry. I am really sorry you can't deal with my presentation. I'm not looking for a gold medal. I think you guys need to learn the art of being able to read between the lines and learn how to deal with opposing factors of the subject at hand. It seems to me that lately on this board that everyone is too scared to post because they may disagree with something...to me that is no fun and quite boring. In fact, life would rather boring indeed if we were all the same.
Besides, how many Guru's have you practiced with GJ and Mishoga and how long have you been studying Yoga?? I'm really curious as to how much experience you guys really have. In fact, I have a pretty good idea already, don't worry you don't have to post to the board unless you want to. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | mishoga - 2006-02-20 4:26 PM
Cyndi, you just can't refrain from insulting me, can you? I sit here smiling knowing that I have such an impact on you. It's quite the compliment.
Oh by the way, I asked about your experience, not what you thought of mine. Thought I should clear that up for you since you misunderstood my topic.
I wasn't aware that I insulted you, does disagreeing with you insult you? Does my experience with yoga studios and goofy yoga instructors insult you?? Why? Why would my experience insult you? Why would you even think that my experience would intertwine with your experience and you turn the tables on me to say that your experience was my experience?? I'm flattered that you are smiling thinking you have impacted me in some way, but I can assure you that I haven't felt an impact of anything. Keep smiling, I'll smile with you, I really don't get it why you feel insulted. I'm sorry you are offended and insulted. Perhaps Bruce will come along and erase the entire thread because it now is not making much sense is it?? | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | Cyndi, once again...lighten up. Maybe you want to explore the deeper dimensions of life, but I just want to appreciate the goodness that surrounds me.
Back off sista! Really, you're acting silly!!!!
There is absolutely no need for this to go any further!
Mish | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | mishoga - 2006-02-20 4:50 PM
Cyndi, once again...lighten up. Maybe you want to explore the deeper dimensions of life, but I just want to appreciate the goodness that surrounds me.
Back off sista! Really, you're acting silly!!!!
There is absolutely no need for this to go any further!
Again, Mishoga, quit telling me how to act and what to do. I don't recalling making you my Didi, so don't say that to me, you are out of line. You don't know how far I've explored the deeper dimensions of life...in fact, IF you even had a clue about my explorations and where I've been, IF you did, it would scare the crap out of you...another words you couldn't handle it - which is why you can't handle it now.
Anway, don't you have a yoga music class to teach right now?? So, what are you going to listen to today?? Prem Joshua?? Play Dance of Kali in my honor while you're doing standing postures Okay???
Edited by Cyndi 2006-02-20 5:01 PM
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | You are so childish! It a shame your knowledge can't shine fully!
Bruce, please delete this thread. She is determined to go on and on and on. I'm done with her. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | mishoga - 2006-02-20 5:01 PM
You are so childish! It a shame your knowledge can't shine fully!
Bruce, please delete this thread. She is determined to go on and on and on. I'm done with her.
Mishoga,
Don't forget, those who anger you control you, Om Sat Nam!!!
Om Shanti Shanti Shanti hi | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | You don't anger me, you annoy me!!!!!  | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Okay your majesty, I bow to you....you can have the last word and testiment. I hope you enjoy your yoga music class today, | |
| | |
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | Can I be a member of the Mishoga Fan Club?
Seriously, I think your class sounds cool. I love practicing yoga with music playing and I like to play groovy R&B and soul music in my yoga class as well as world music with a beat. (I've gotten lots of good music ideas from Steve Ross' Inhale Yoga on the Oxygen channel). I teach at a gym and focus on asana practice pretty much exclusively. I teach a vinyasa style class and try to keep things moving, but I also offer lots of modifications for people who are newer to the practice.
If my class is not meeting someone's needs (i.e., if s/he thinks it is not serious enough, or "real" yoga), it is only one class on the schedule and. like Mish said, a member is free to find another class (perhaps in a yoga studio) that better meets his/her needs. If my class doesn't meet ANYONE'S needs, then I definitely need to look at changing something. But I get positive feedback and returning students. | |
| | |
| hmm i wish i had something smarmy to say...
i find cyndi's uncompromising attitude to be refreshing. she strikes me as someone who knows what shes talking about, and "rings my bell of truth"
i often feel uncomfortable saying what yoga "is" or "isn't," but i find those opinions growing more clearly defined in myself every day. while its better than sitting on your a$$ eating bonbons, i feel that western yoga is more than slightly off base
fortunately sincere and devoted students receive guidance form forces on high. i am an infant in yoga practice, but i realize the importance of protecting the integrity of yoga practice.
i dunno.
my ego has my head tied in knots, but i'm working on it...
just things, you know?
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Dhanurasana,
Thank you, you have no idea how much that means to me. It really takes a lot of guts to stand out alone and live your truth, without compromising your own practice and trying to stay within the borders of not offending but yet at the same time, it happens. We can't please everybody now can we. Some people no matter what you do, you can't please them and they will get offended over anything. One of the things I learned long ago was that the practice of Yoga was like a Two edge Sword...it can cut very deeply. There is no such thing as that airy fairy crap and there is no such thing as being on top of the world in la la land because something is going to come along and bounce you back into reality.
We all know that when we walk out onto the edge of life we do stand alone, or at least it seems that way doesn't it? Then along comes that inner voice inside of us that tells us we are not alone, then when we learn how to accept that, we then start our yoga journey. This to me is the true art and essence of the Yoga practice. When you are guided by this inner Divine self, there is nothing in this world that can harm you...you just melt and float...that is so sweet.
Yoga has been around for thousands of years and it is part of a system written long ago. Americans can adjust Yoga to fit their criteria of what they think life should be and they can continue with their illusions of what happiness is and even what Yoga is. That doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean that is it correct. If people want to think of yoga as a fitness or exercise program, that is erroneous thinking because it is not. Yoga is so much more than doing a physical exercise and it's not just about doing yoga asana's. I find it rather insulting when certain yoga teachers blast the Indian culture and where Yoga originated from. I also find it more insulting that some of these teachers are trying to undo what has been done by the great masters of yesterday. These so called teachers would not be here today if it weren't for these great masters who brought Yoga to the place where yoga is today. It needs to be respected and revered. | |
| | |
| Cyndi-
Why are you so on ‘edge’ all the time regarding Yoga? I’m with Mish when she describes her class:
>My big thing is having different music for each class (all classes) I mx all of my songs and >load onto my ipod with looping and transitions to be continuous.
>I also like to use essential oils to create a certain feeling, depending on the time of day.
>Daitme, early, jasmine or verbena nightime, lavender, ylang-ylang, bulgarian rose, and oris >root.
>I prefer teaching by candlelight.
>The list can go on. I love it and it fuels me up.
I take all kinds of classes in all of the styles and I most like taking yoga that is light hearted and sometimes by ‘candlelight’. Oils are nice, sometimes with music. I would love to take a class with Mish...
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Jambo - 2006-02-20 6:40 PM
Cyndi-
Why are you so on ‘edge’ all the time regarding Yoga? I’m with Mish when she describes her class:
You asked the question and I'm going to give you another answer with hopes that you don't get offended.
The yoga class that you and Mishoga have described is NOT what I would consider a *true* yoga class to be. In fact, all this airy fairy BS that goes along with the music and the candles and the incense thing and that other stuff is scary to me. It really is scary. Why you may ask?? Go back and read all my comments....these things are not necessary and are just a way to manipulate people's minds. Look at the Yoga industry and how much $$ has been made on yoga accessories. These things do not allow you the inner peace of finding your *true* self with all those extra things going on - it is insane. In fact, it is really a major distraction to the practice of yoga. It feels like a massive invasion and a spiritual boundary that is crossed over with disrespect. You might as well say you're going to a social gathering and we are going to do a Yoga Inspired Aerobics class together. | |
| | |
|
i've been wincing through these posts..I would be offended just like mishoga, to tell the truth. it just seems like such personal and harsh judgement. i know because i've inflicted it too, and lived to regret it.
sometimes the best thing way to let something like this die is just not to respond, i guess. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Wow - I am surprised my ears haven't been burning all day! Or is it the typing fingers that burn when people are posting about you?
I don't think it is a good idea to erase this thread because, aside from people getting a bit uppity here and there, there has been some good discussion. Frankly, I was trying to find a way to answer Mish's original post in a diplomatic way and hadn't yet found it...
For myself, I have the fact that I am an Iyengar student to fall back on here. We do not play music, we do not burn incense (except for puja or other special occassions) and we don't do any practices but asana and pranayama. Period. This is how we are taught and, in the great, long and ancient tradition of transmission of teachings from guru to student, we teach as we were taught. BKS does not teach with music so we don't teach with music. Simple.
But I am personally not fond of the Americanization of yoga and all the "yoga-y" trappings that we seem to think we should have. If you have to burn some candles to get rid of the sweat smell from the previous class, that is one thing, but to add the new agey stuff is, well, new agey. I do not go so far as to say it is not yoga. BKS is clear that all yoga is yoga. Whatever gets people interested is great. But I would call it more like yoga-lite, perhaps. I hope that is diplomatic enough - as Cyndi said, you did as for reaction from us as if we were students
Cyndi - I was struck by your mention of yoga schools turning out students too fast - did you mean teachers? I am guessing when you said the two main one s you might mean Iyengar but I don't know of any Iyengar trainings under two or three years. I would love to hear more about this - IM me if you feel like discussing it more. | |
| | |
| cyndi says:
We all know that when we walk out onto the edge of life we do stand alone, or at least it seems that way doesn't it? Then along comes that inner voice inside of us that tells us we are not alone, then when we learn how to accept that, we then start our yoga journey.
and i say...
it is a lonely path. when you cut through all the crap in this western (or any) world and find your true path back to the universal spirit, you really put yourself out there. people just don't understand. and as you walk down your path, all the trappings of your former life just seem to drop away. friends, jobs, even family.
it is a lonely path, but once you have heard your true self (even just a peep, a whisper) through your ego, the pain of not following that path is infinitely more unbearable than the temporary inconveniences of physical loneliness.
i certainly don't mean to sound like some sort of snobby elitest, like, "ooh look at me, i'm just so d@mn spiritual" but i can see how such opinions could elicit that response. i think that if people are offended by my (or any other) postings, they should take it as an opportunity to study their own consciousness, and think about why something like this is prodding their ego in such a way.
i personally find music during asana practice to distract me from the intense self-study that goes along with my practice. and i don't want to be inhaling any incense that is being burned. sometimes a little sandalwood during meditation, but thats about it.
speaking of distractions, i practiced at my old bikram studio recently after probably 3-4 months away. not the bikram series, just used their facility for practice. those mirrors were the most distracting things ever. i kep sneaking peaks in every posture. stupid ego.
AND in the interest of rambling further on and on as well as answering the original question...i would describe my style of asana as a "static flow." i like me some vinyasa action, but i'll stay in postures 10-20 breaths so as to really stick the alignment. i'm starting to lean more towards iyengar style sequencing and away from the ashtanga series that i had previously practiced. i do love that ashtanga standing series, though...
okay i'm done...
Edited by dhanurasana 2006-02-20 8:33 PM
| |
| | |
| I think Yoga should be whatever it needs to be for people. So whatever it is for Cyndi, excellent. Whatever it is for me, also excellent. If it gets us all to a good place, who cares which path each one of us takes? We all start from different places anyway.
This discussion really isn't about Yoga and it's "pure" form anymore. It's about how well we communicate with each other. And how tolerant and patient we are with each other. It's about the words we choose, and the reactions we have.
Mishy, I'm so sorry your thread took this turn. Not because I can't handle a good discussion, but because it was a really good topic. For what it's worth, I'd dig your class. You sound very much like my teachers, and I always look forward to going to the studio. There's an instant calm about the place, and I sink right into it when I'm there.
Edited by Kabu 2006-02-20 8:40 PM
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | dhanurasana - 2006-02-20 8:21 PM
it is a lonely path, but once you have heard your true self (even just a peep, a whisper) through your ego, the pain of not following that path is infinitely more unbearable than the temporary inconveniences of physical loneliness.
Have you ever heard anyone make the comment, "A Dakini's Breath"? Here is something interesting that you might like in relation to that peep and a whisper.....
DAKINI
is a goddess common to most Asian countries,
but she manifests in many forms.
In Tibet, she's the ethereal sky dancer,
the "traveller in space".
In parts of India, a disciple of the dreaded Durga.
In other regions, a grasping ghost.
In certain Tantric traditions, she's a priestess able to bestow enlightenment through her sexual skills.
Dakini exists beyond borders, beyond definitions, able to adopt a multitude of identities while being limited by none.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sky Dancing Angels
"The teaching of the whispered lineage is the Dakini's breath"
-----------Milarepa
The literal translation of Dakini is "Sky Dancer".
The Western form for Dakinis are Angels. If you believe in or have curiosity about Angels, well Dakinis immediately follow. The Western idea of an Angel being a beautiful celestial being who flies in the sky and who sometimes comes to earth to provide inspiration and support to us mortals is very similar to the Dakinis.
Generally when they are referred to in Buddhist literature it is assumed they are devoted to the Truth (Dharma). But the broader meaning of the word is a female (males are called Dakas) spirit who has some freedom but is still bound by their past actions. Thus there are good Angels and bad (or simply confused) Angels. Some people might argue that you couldn't call them an Angel anymore if they're bad, but that's ridiculous since being predictable is not part of anyones long-term nature.
Thus there are worldy Dakinis who are malicious and use their powers to confuse us, to arouse passions that are destructive, and who use their charms for their own selfish purposes. Dakinis can manifest on earth in human form or take birth as a human. These are then called "worldly Dakinis" and I'm sure you've met at least one or two in your lifetime. Women (or men) who seem to be able to simply will things into being. People who are so charming that they seduce whatever they want from the world and enjoy it fully, yet also remain somewhat disattached from the results.
Dharma Dakinis are devoted to a higher purpose and so their actions are generally positive. But it is hard to generalize the actions of Dharma Dakinis since they aim to break our rabid fixation on concrete thoughts. Dharma Dakinis are not afraid to use their powers to dazzle us, arouse us out of our sleep of habits, and seduce us onto a path of truth. Dakinis are tricky, capricious, and unpredictable. We're in trouble when the Dakini disrupts our mind with magic, breaks our habitual thought patterns with the miraculous, or simply opens our hearts with mad adoration. Messengers between our earthly realm and the higher realms of the teachers, they help to bring the powerful teachings to earth, protect the truth from destructive forces, and bring blessings to sincere seekers. The natural result is to fall in love with a Dakini or Angel. How can you avoid falling in love with someone who inspires wild love and higher meaning suffused with delight?
Fixate on that pleasure and the Dakini does the most compassionate thing possible. They fly away. Dakinis do not manifest simply for our pleasure. (There are people who will do that but it usually requires negotiation and some form of hard currency). Dakinis manifest the beauty of the Truth which is then an invitation to follow the path of Truth. Sky Dancers help us through vision and inspiration. But although we can be greatly inspired by a Dakini (another word is Muse), they will only come back if we put into action what they have shown us.
In that regard a Dakini's love is unswerving and always compassionate. It doesn't matter if we wait a few hours or a few lifetimes to put our inspiration into action. Miracles occur but sometimes it takes years to fully realize the implications. When we do realize or remember, our hearts open, and again the magic and majesty of the universe is open to us. The Dakinis celebrate the Truth and our resolve to work for it in a mostextraordinary way. They dance in the sky.
| |
| | |
| Well... back to the original topic. I'm a bit spartan in my practice. I do like music, but I spend all day listening too it, so it's not a distraction to me, quite the opposite. I also like incense, though I could go either way on that for practice. I am not a big fan of a lot of other distractions, we keep things to the basics in the studio, which I like.
I think that practicing with the bare minimums reduces the distractions, and keeps the focus on the yoga. I also love the idea that I can do my yoga anywhere, and time, with just me. No fancy equipment, no instructors, not a lot of room.
All that having been said, I like it when the instructors try something new, or try to add something to the practice. It's very easy to fall into a rut, and do the same things day in and day out. Adding a something here or there can make for a more interesting practice. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | Wow, all this tension this evening! While you guys were arguing, I did
a 2 1/2 hour practice and then made dinner. Now I know why I had so much
Shakti -- y'all beamed to me, didn't ya? Eh?
Personally, I don't mind candles and very mild incense. Not too much incense,
because it interferes with breathing. Music is not a good idea for me, really,
because I start to interact with it and in the worst case get annoyed by it.
I think that Cyndi and Mish are both right and that they both should go
away from this thinking about how nice it is to have these boards to post on.
I also agree that it is hard to hold on to your own opinion when other people
are telling you your opinion is wrong.
I think that Iyengar classes actually go further than asana and pranayama alone,
since philosophy (in the form of the Sutras) is discussed and since chanting is done.
That's all spirituality too, and whether it's New Agey is probably open to debate.
New Age is a pretty loose term.
I'm glad nobody deleted this thread.
And, if I were going to a new studio and the music bothered me, I probably would
not go back. If, on the other hand, the incense had a scent I didn't prefer, I might
still go back.
Hope you guys all love each other in the morning, if not overnight.
.... bg
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Bay Guy - 2006-02-20 9:47 PM
Wow, all this tension this evening! While you guys were arguing, I did
a 2 1/2 hour practice and then made dinner. Now I know why I had so much
Shakti -- y'all beamed to me, didn't ya? Eh?
BG, we are always beaming you with Shakti energy!! Why is it whenever someone disagrees on this forum, it is considered arguing?? Can't we have a good debate??? Well, my day is tomorrow as I spent all day here on and off. Tonight I did a fast, it's a good thing too. Tomorrow will be another day.
I think that Cyndi and Mish are both right and that they both should go
away from this thinking about how nice it is to have these boards to post on.
I also agree that it is hard to hold on to your own opinion when other people
are telling you your opinion is wrong.
Thank you BG, I couldn't have said it better myself. Although, there is a right way and there is the correct way. By posting to this forum, we have the freedom of choice by choosing and possibly knowing if we are lucky enough, which way is the correct way. The way this thread started it was leaning too much towards one biased direction, I just happened to have come along and shifted it...that's all.
Hope you guys all love each other in the morning, if not overnight.
No love lost on my end. Don't worry Mishoga, I'm cool with you, I just don't agree with all your Yoga teaching methods. But then again, I'm a traditional kind of girl. I played in the realms of the new age stuff a long time ago before I ever discovered yoga. You are not the first person I have had this conversation, excuse me, Debate with and you will not be the last I'm quite sure of it. Although, you and some others on this forum wouldn't last an hour around some of my guru's, it would flip you out totally!
| |
| | |
| Cyndi - 2006-02-20 10:18 PM
Why is it whenever someone disagrees on this forum, it is considered arguing?? Can't we have a good debate???
It's arguing when you attack the person and not the idea. It's attacking the other person when you say that they are wrong, and not their concepts.
Edited by GreenJello 2006-02-20 11:35 PM
| |
| | |
| GreenJello -
It's arguing when you attack the person and not the idea. It's attacking the other person when you say that they are wrong, and not their concepts.
That is exactly what I've been wanting to say but couldn't figure out how to phrase it. Thank you! | |
| | |
Location: Upstate NY | Om,
Truth is one, paths are many.
Buddha also once said "that there is your truth, my truth, and truth absolute."
May all your days be bleseed.
Om Shanti
Ravi | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | Love implies generosity, care, not to hurt another, not to make them feel guilty, to be generous, courteous, and behave in such a manner that your words and thoughts are born out of compassion.
Krishnamurti
We are all on the same path. I think we can all agree to that!
Mish
Edited by mishoga 2006-02-21 10:17 AM
| |
| | |
| If you don't mind, I'm going to copy your signature Mish and put it up on my fridge. It's beautiful! | |
| | |
| Cyndi - You might be on to something regarding the “true” Yoga. According to Svatmarama:
“One should avoid "bad company, proximity to fire, sexual relations, long trips, cold baths in the early morning, fasting, and heavy physical work". (1.61 Hatha Yoga Pradipika).
So all you candle burning, sex indulgent, traveling, fasting, physically working and possibly classroom attending, Yoga freaks out there, knock it off.
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Jambo - 2006-02-21 11:54 AM
Cyndi - You might be on to something regarding the “true” Yoga. According to Svatmarama:
“One should avoid "bad company, proximity to fire, sexual relations, long trips, cold baths in the early morning, fasting, and heavy physical work". (1.61 Hatha Yoga Pradipika).
So all you candle burning, sex indulgent, traveling, fasting, physically working and possibly classroom attending, Yoga freaks out there, knock it off.
Well, one things for certain...the bad company/association is definitely present....or should I say this Sanctimonious Group, let me pass out some halo's.... where's my harp??
Edited by Cyndi 2006-02-21 12:02 PM
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | tourist - 2006-02-20 7:40 PM
Cyndi - I was struck by your mention of yoga schools turning out students too fast - did you mean teachers? I am guessing when you said the two main one s you might mean Iyengar but I don't know of any Iyengar trainings under two or three years. I would love to hear more about this - IM me if you feel like discussing it more.
Hey Glenda,
Yes, I did mean Teachers, not students. Would you please go correct that for me, Shri Moderator Tourist,
I'll be in touch later and sure, I'll discuss it with you privately. Take care,
Cyndi | |
| | |
| Cyndi -
Well, one things for certain...the bad company/association is definitely present....or should I say this Sanctimonious Group, let me pass out some halo's.... where's my harp??
I don't get it. | |
| | |
| Jambo, I'm a rebel. Not only will I practice to music (with candles), I will play the actual song, "Bad Company" while doing so. | |
| | |
| Kabu - 2006-02-21 12:09 PM
Jambo, I'm a rebel. Not only will I practice to music (with candles ), I will play the actual song, "Bad Company" while doing so.
You mean, Bad Company, by the band Bad Company, off the album Bad Company ? Or as I like to call it Bad Company^3! | |
| | |
| Finally! We're 6 weeks into 2006 and I can't remember the last time we had an old fashioned board brawl. Good stuff!
This sutra came up in a previous discussion, but it's one that I keep coming back to (especially as I enter day 4 of school vacation week, with my parents visiting for the long haul):
Yoga Sutra 1.33 – maitri karuna mudita upeksanam sukha duhkha punya apunya visayanam bhavanatah cittaprasadanam
Through the cultivation of friendliness, compassion, joy and indifference in the face of pleasure, pain, virtue and vice, the consciousness becomes favorably disposed, serene and benevolent. Development of these qualities keeps the mind in a state of well-being and lays the groundwork for our journey towards Self-Realization. Citta viksepa is a current of disturbed thoughts running like a river. In citta prasadana (graceful diffusion) this turbulent flow is dammed up and consciousness diffuses calmly like water in a lake. If the citta is caught in the web of the senses, and the sadhaka (student) fails to cultivate friendliness, compassion, delight and equanimity, then sorrow and unhappiness will arise in his heart. This sutra asks us to rejoice with those who are happy; to be compassionate to the sorrowful, friendly to the virtuous, and indifferent to those who continue to live in vice. This mental adjustment builds social as well as individual health. Besides cultivating these qualities, one should follow the social virtues of yama (11.30) for the well-being of society as a whole. This approach to life keeps the mind of the sadhaka serene and pure.
----
Now Cyndi, it's not fair that you hold back on the dirt about the 2 styles that are churning out teachers too quickly. Now, it can't be Iyengar or Ashtanga, because true certification in those styles takes years. So, I'm guessing that Bikram is one (9 week training, only 6 months experience required) and generic power is #2. Will you tell us if we guess right?
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hey Mitch,
I can't see how that Sutra applies to this situation, unless of course, someone was having a conflict with themselves. I am not in conflict with this thread. See, the only way that the Sutra would apply is if you are in conflict and having self-doubt. When you are in conflict with your life and situation then you have a problem. Conflict is also when you have self-doubt about yourself and who you are. Conflict is when you are so attached to the outcome that it interferres with your life and when you are not in complete awareness of your self.
As for holding back information...sorry, I'm not going to discuss that on this thread, it is not appropriate and besides, I am not going to add more fuel to the fire, | |
| | |
| Cyndi,
That's exactly what I meant. How one addresses a situation or an argument is entirely colored by their own perceptions. The context of what is happening in our own minds. Does it really matter what is said in the ether of the internets? If you find yourself angry or upset by a discussion, then it's probably a good opportunity for svadhaya - why do I feel this way? | |
| | |
| Kabu - I’m just glad that I discovered the “true yoga”. All the sex and fasting was killing me. I’m only glad that Svatmarama didn’t mention giving up sticky mats; the floor of the cave we moved to would have been h*ll on my feet.
“Ah honey, I’m glad you understand about the sex thing, but you know that job I had, I quit. See it says right here, “Avoid heavy physical work”.
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | “Avoid heavy physical work”. Ahahahaha That's good for a chuckle!!!! I should follow that advice
I agree with your comments Mitch!
Edited by mishoga 2006-02-21 1:02 PM
| |
| | |
| Cyndi, I have an honest question for you. It's not a leading question...I'm not trying to provoke anything...it's a real question. From a friend.
It's human to get angry, perhaps defensive at times. We all do it. Have you ever said anything to someone on the board that was hurtful, realized it and then apologized? And I mean a real apology, not a "sorry" with a follow up explanation on how that person shouldn't feel insulted (which I've seen and heard many people do), and how really it's "their problem." Have you ever stopped and caught yourself losing your temper and maybe going a little too far?
I know I have. I once snapped at a woman on a political board, and though I didn't type paragraphs and paragraphs of snide remarks, my carefully selected words hit home. I felt totally in the right too because the subject hit a nerve in a big way. The emotion I swore I could keep out of my online discussions was now ever present and clouding my behavior. There IS an art to having a discussion, and it IS hard to learn. And those of us who think we're great at it slip up sometimes.
I felt terrible, so I apologized. Not because I was wrong in my opinion, but because of the way I spoke to her. It was unnecessary and hurtful and ugly, and I didn't want to be that way. Yes, it was human and learning experience and all that...but that didn't mean an apology or admission that I went a bit overboard wasn't needed.
What was cool was that she instantly forgave me. She didn't even hesitate, which I admired.
Edited by Kabu 2006-02-21 1:04 PM
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Lori,
I'm not really sure where you are trying to go with the question. Are you trying to tell me that YOU think I should apologize to someone??
For the record, I am totally responsible for my actions. Also, I am my own judge and jury. I don't need this group to tell me where I am on my path and/or I don't need your approval of the things I say - I'm not lacking in the self confidence department, Okay.
As for getting angry or loosing my temper, well, that is a personal question. Getting angry and upset is not a problem for me. Getting angry and upset, holding it in, having attachments and conflicts with whatever you get angry and upset about....and not letting go is definitely a problem. When you learn how to distinguish between the two, and learn how to deal with emotions, then you become a master....which is my ultimate goal in this human life. When in a debate or argument, what may seem to be anger and upset by some, may just be part of the debate. How you judge and interprete this is based on your level of experience. If you have a problem with it, then you should not participate, you should gracefully seperate yourself from the debate or discussion. This forum and this particular thread is a full blown debate, that is all, nothing more. If someone is hurt and upset from this debate, then perhaps they need to take a closer look at their practice and see what their conflict may be - analyze it very carefully. I like to think of it as an "Ego Check".
For the record, I was informed earlier that one of the players on this thread was PM'd and told things about me and who I am. I very seldom have private messages with members on this forum and I don't make it a habit to participate in idle gossip when it comes to my associations here. In fact, I try to keep a low profile, even though I've been here for quite a while now. I do not consider myself to be an Expert Yogi, even though that is my title here says, I am just a student of Yoga, period. If you feel you have a need to gossip about me in private amoungst yourselves, that's fine..but, I just want you all to know that I think its pretty darn cowardly and petty to not be able to tell me personally, instead of creating a *Cyndi's* gossip ring. I have a PM feature too, If you have a question about who I am, you really should ask me, because I am the only person who has that answer....not the others on this forum who do not have a clue. Ya'll have a good day. Cya around. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Mitch - 2006-02-21 12:53 PM
Cyndi,
That's exactly what I meant. How one addresses a situation or an argument is entirely colored by their own perceptions. The context of what is happening in our own minds. Does it really matter what is said in the ether of the internets? If you find yourself angry or upset by a discussion, then it's probably a good opportunity for svadhaya - why do I feel this way?
Here in my neck of the woods we call that an "Ego Check"....see my previous post. No, I'm not one of those Ego Busters....although, I have been accused of it from time to time, guilty as charged your honor,
Edited by Cyndi 2006-02-21 2:37 PM
| |
| | |
| Cyndi, I asked the question because often we don't consider these things until someone just comes out and asks. We get wrapped up in the discussion and the emotion, and it's next to impossible to become objective.
You're right. You don't need anyone's approval here. All I know is that, as an unbiased, objective observer of this thread, I saw the tone of it change in your posts, and it was less than polite. I recognized it because I myself have done the same thing. I have in the past missed the sharpness of my tone and words because I was so busy focusing on getting my point across. So there's no judgement...only observation.
I for one became much happier and enjoyed my online (and offline) conversations much more when I recognized my tendency to be sharp and absolute. I may not be able to keep from getting a little miffed 100% of the time, but I'm always happy when I respond with gentleness and compassion. It has not only lead to good friendships, but it has allowed me to share whatever good I have with others almost effortlessly.
Of course, you may take what I say and leave it behind. I considered PMing you actually. I couldn't decide if my question was better for the private or group setting. Since my post is without any malice and with much gentleness, I didn't think it would add negatively to the thread. If anything, I was hoping it would turn things around.
As for PMing and gossip, I make it a habit to not say anything I couldn't say to a person's face. I DID have a question for you, perhaps about who you are, and it was posted right here in this thread. If my question was too personal, I do apologize. | |
| | |
| i don't think anyone needs to be in possesion of any siddhi's to be able to know at least a little something of certain attitudes if not personalities at the keyboards here. everyones coming from a particular place and approach, different levels.
everyone begins their yoga journey for their own particular reason and that path is unique though the "goal" or Truth is One as someone mentioned. maybe in this lifetime an individual will only ever do 1 single sun salutation, maybe one will meet their guru, most won't. and for all the bashing of "american" yoga, well coming from where we are coming from, and especially in a gym setting, we need all the tools available to create a certain atmosphere of calm and serenity that many people may not be able to experience other wise. after all, one can look at aromatherapies as Mother's gifts. don't forget the yoga of sound as well. for many these are not only appopriate but necessary. even if just as a beginning. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | Ooooohhhhh, I like that Vrrti!
Want to handle my PR? Hehehehe
You described so clearly what I feel in my heart!
Mish | |
| | |
| Vrrti - 2006-02-21 3:25 PM
everyone begins their yoga journey for their own particular reason and that path is unique though the "goal" or Truth is One as someone mentioned. maybe in this lifetime an individual will only ever do 1 single sun salutation, maybe one will meet their guru, most won't. and for all the bashing of "american" yoga, well coming from where we are coming from, and especially in a gym setting, we need all the tools available to create a certain atmosphere of calm and serenity that many people may not be able to experience other wise. after all, one can look at aromatherapies as Mother's gifts. don't forget the yoga of sound as well. for many these are not only appopriate but necessary. even if just as a beginning.
It's a funny thing. I read through these posts with mixed emotions and they came back to the the answer I was forming in my head as an answer to the original question in the post.
Because of the course of my life, I've actually had many teachers of divergent styles and none of them strictly followed any of the popular traditions like Iyengar or Ashtanga. Everytime I switched, I found weaknesses in my own practice - or situations that I didn't know how to handle.
I was used to practicing in a gym with music and mirrors, then when I went to the ashram there was no music, no mirrors and I didn't know where my body was in space. I learned. I was accustomed to stronger yoga, and then had a "soft" teacher in my teacher-training who challenged my sense of focus. I learned to relax without the heat of the stronger classes.
The students in my class know that they can't count on it being the same thing every week. Sometimes I teach vinyasa-style, sometimes I teach a slower class aimed at teaching fundamentals more like an Iyengar class. Occasionally I come to the floor early and teacher more restorative, type postures.
It's almost like a "survey" class, although I don't like to think of it that way. I like to think that I'm giving them as many tools as I can to aid them in what will likely be a very, very long journey.
Sometimes I worry I'm not building much of a personality in my classes at all, but I believe in this approach.
I want my students to experience yoga in different forms, with different rhythms and aids or "crutches" if you don't mind the terminology. I want them to be comfortable sometimes and uncomfortable at other times. I want to challange their mental focus as well as their bodies, but adjust to the level of that challenge in same way I would adjust the asanas I use to their levels.
I don't use candles because of my allergies, but I do use music most of the time. It helps my students calm down and focus, especially in the hectic gym. I occassionally do a class without music in the same way I sometimes throw in a challenging asana, to stretch my students' limits and help them find their edge, in this case in their mental focus.
I have one class that just can't do without music. It is a challenging room, really open to the gym. Another class can take it or leave it, but they have a much better space. The music is a tool. The asana practice itself is a tool to help us along the path to spiritual enlightenment.
Ideally, I think we would all be able to practice anywhere and under any circumstances. We would be able to find our focus and filter out the distractions, no matter what we do, but some of us need a little help.
At the ashram, the spiritual teachers repeatedly said "start where you are." Perhaps it is better to practice without aids like music, but most of my students are at the beginning of their spiritual path and the music helps.
At the end of the class, I want them to physically feel good and balanced, mentally feel stress free and calm. I also hope that the lessons of yoga carry into their lives. If we deal with discomfort calmly in class and feel good at the end, then maybe we will deal with it the same way in their daily lives.
Anyway, those are my thoughts on the topic.
Edited by skatrenah 2006-02-21 4:51 PM
| |
| | |
| ok, i skimmed most of the five pages because there was a cuh-fuffle in there and well, it was on topic but too muhc to read in the limited time that i have.
one of the things that i read was about yoga-style rigidity--a comparison to catholicism. as a catholic, i did take particular 'cuh-fuffle' to it. i'm not at all rigid in my catholicism, and catholicism--like yoga--has so many schools of thought, variations, and expressions, that it's hard to pin down as this or that. But, like catholicism, there is a 'central' truth or idea that seems to hold the whole thing together. And not surprisingly, this 'central truth' is the same for both yoga and catholicism, when you get down to it.
the second thing that i read that really struck me (not positively or negatively, but as a 'huh, that's interesting' kind of way--was the statement that the truth of yoga will be defended. i remember years ago when i first started my online journey spending a good amount of time in 'christian chat' sort of forums. lots of fun really--just as much fun as here, different language. Except for this statement, which was the 'huh, interesting' thing. Fundamental christians love to throw around the "truth and the bible and Jesus MUST and WILL BE defended by TRUE believers!"
But this always struck me as rather odd. If something is the truth, it doesn't need to be defended or preserved, because it just is. No matter what anyone says, the truth will always, always, and always win out. Languages will die, cultures will change or be integrated or integrate other elements--but the truth still shines right on through in new languages, with new permetations of culture, and with new ways of doing things.
i remember my husband telling about his first experience with one of his teachers Maldoma (i don't know if i'm spelling his name right). He's a 'medicine man' or 'shaman' or 'spiritual leader' from western africa. he's really an amazing man. in any case, he held/ran the ritual at last septembers Minnesota Men's Conference. The ritual was one that was normally done for boys as a sort of coming-of-age ceremony. Yet, the people at this conference were between the ages of 15 and 85. And, they were in minnesota, not africa. And, they were going to be together only a week, and this aspect needed to be done late in the week, but with enough time to 'come off of it' or to come to understanding of it together afterwards. And so, Maldoma explained that the ritual itself is pure and true, but changed because that's what rituals do. they change to suit the needs of the group who are doing the ritual. Part of it stay the same, the 'ritualized' parts, but other aspects change--like the ages, religions of the participants; where it's held; how it's held, etc. And that this is natural, because it isn't africa. people at the conference didn't go through the earliest, baby rituals and what not to be a part of the ritual--as it is in it's context. But that doesn't mean that the ritual is not necessary, less powerful, or not able to be used or adapted for this purpose and in this place.
this is part of the reason why many fundamentalists dislike catholicism--the ritual is essentially the same, but there are lots of changes. We can see this as catholics in india. in india, there are catholic churches, and where snakes are symbols of 'bad stuff' in european churches, snakes are symbols of resurrection in indian catholic churches. So, the catholics took the language of the area (the art language) and used it to depict the same idea in different ways--ways that may seem 'off' to a european, 'off' to others--but absolutely right for where they were, catholicism in india. It's unique, truly, different--than catholicism in america or catholicism in france or catholicism in korea. because the catholicism isn't rigid--the ritual will be adjusted to fit the needs, language, and experiences of the community, while still remaining True. and those who devote themselves, regardless of where or when or how, will ultimately be changed by the practice--because the truth will come through.
So, this brings us to Yoga in America. This speaks to another discussion that has been going on for many years, but came to my attention about 10 years ago--Buddhism in America! There are so many conferences and meetings and discussions on this topic. It seems that american buddhists are unique. That buddhist monks come from the east and are surprised by americans--but not necessarily negatively. We're just different--and some of those differences are very 'buddhist' but not traditionally "japanese" or "vietnamese" or "tibetan." I remember going to a talk by thich naht hanh. part of the conference was about these differences and what is 'buddhism in america" and is there an "american buddhism?" and is that "good" or "bad?" or is it "true" or 'untrue?" or what?
Anyway, thay talked about hugging. he said that in vietnam, you don't really hug people. there are social rules. it's not that hugging is bad in vietnam. obviously, vietnamese people hug. But when he met americans, he said that americans like to hug. Americans will hug strangers--even thay himself! he was so surprised. What is this hugging? And then he thought--how beautiful is this? to be so close, and to BE--this is zen, this is buddhism. It is american buddhism--hugging! There is no DHARMA of hugging that the buddha passed down. There is no TRUTH of hugging that we know must be protected. But there is hugging, and it is american, and it is strange. And he said, he even hugs women and girl-children. THAY! the buddhist teacher, when buddhist monks should not touch or be touched by women--but that american women, and american men, hug and they hug each other, and it's not sexual, and it's not needy, it's just love and compassion and honesty and openness and caring and being--and that is buddhism.
So let americans be american and be buddhist and see what happens to buddhism. The truth will survive and something new will be added, something perhaps that is wonderful--like hugging--which he teaches in other forums (like france) as a means of closeness and openness without sexualizing it or pushing it or being an emotional vampire. and this has interpreted the dharma in a new way that speaks to people, and it comes from Americans--those weirdos.
Americans have something to offer the world. For all i'm harsh on my own culture, american culture has positively influenced catholicism--an old and crusty thing that is slow to move, but clings to truth. American culture has positively impacted buddhism (many teachers have noticed that americans are more eager for truth-seeking than their own home country men and women), and it has reflected back new ways to the 'old ways' that have challenged and influenced positively the way that buddhism is practiced in america and in the east--this is what they say anyway, and thay gives us a good example in hugging.
So, why can't american culture--or cuban or lithuanian--have something to offer to yoga? something to bring to the table that reflects the dharma and truth of yoga in new and powerful and positive ways? There are students here--from india who are devout hindus--who tell us how yoga in america (asana practice) has changed their perspective of hinduism and dharma--positively. One of my clients often brings sweets on festival days and explains what the festival is. She brings art, and we'll sing a chant that she brings. She is so happy to share with a silly asana class what is true from her perspective. And she tells me that she loves some of our changes.
Veela, one of my newest students, is a wonderful woman who travels to india frequently to visit family and friends. she recently returned from a trip and, as well as being happy to be home and settled again, was glad to be in yoga class with me. We spoke afterwards (and she gave me a little gift, a small statue of durga), and she said that she likes the way that i'm hindu. She watches me come into the studio and pray, touching each of the images of the gods and goddesses in the classroom. I chant "Om' and i light the candles. I sing to the plants in the room. And when the students come, i talk to them about the truth--without the fussy language--and when i tell them to use a dristi, i say "look at ganesh! i love ganesh. not only is he wise, but he likes cookies!" She says in india, there isn't this 'irreverence' but she realizes that i talk about and to ganesh as if he is my sweet brother, whom i am proud of and whom i love. And this changed her perspective of ganesh. And then, she says, that when i teach, i sing--and sometimes it's ganesh, and sometimes durga, and sometimes shiva--she hears me singing the chants as i give instruction and direction, just under my breath. And she said that usually, those are only sung in the temple, not around asana practices or meditations, but here i am mixing it together--like yoga soup--and she says she can see that i love yoga, and i love ganesh, and i love my students, and i love the plants, and i love to teach--and since in the end, it's love, then it is true, and i am also hindu even though i'm not 'correct' and whatever.
But, i like this perspective. I, as an american, simply love these things. I may not understand them completely. I may not worship 'properly' as veela and her family would see it--but i'm not being improper or irreverent either. she says that i've connected, and there's nothing to defend. there's nothing to protect. Now, all she has to do is to share with me, and i'll soak it up with a sponge, because i want to know. And she realized, as our studio filled this morning with students, that all of us are hungry for truth, and that if she can share what her culture experiences, then we can find things in common--and we can learn together, and maybe practice American Yoga, and it will still be true.
Now, as to my style of teaching, that takes many forms. Obviously, i do a lot of things unconsciously, like chanting to ganesh while teaching. I didn't realize that i did that outloud or at all for that matter. Veela, apparently, isn't the only one who noticed, and one of my clients, Ganeshimo, he actually corrects the chants for me while i correct his trikonasana. It's a good exchange, i think--and that's like a hug, isn't it?
But, lets back off that a step for a minute, and talk about what i like to do. First, i like to keep it light. Yoga asana practice is not about perfection or competition. I tell students that it's ok to fall out of a pose, to 'be where you are' and modify as much as you want to, that it's a practice and takes time. i explain that there are things that i can't do that many of my students can, and i learn as much from them as i do from my teachers. I encourage them to share with and encourage each other. I think this reciprocity, this encouragement is important. We learn from each other, because no one has cornered the market on truth, and no one person knows everything that there is to know, and that someone else's experience or insight may provide for us another insight into our own selves, and bring us closer to God. And i bring this out in class, usually through small statements.
we ask questions, we joke with each other, and sometimes we're deeply quiet. sometimes we are just playful and sometimes we are serious and spend 40 minutes talking about our personal/cultural issues and concerns, and then we practice yoga offering up our concerns to God (or whatever one wants to call it) as we do the asana. I talk about how shiva is the lord of yoga, and a god outside of culture--that it is parvati that soothes him into culture, but he is also outside of it--so that to do yoga, while concerned aobut cultural issues, traumas, and problems, and to offer it to shiva, is to find ways to dance, divinely, between two worlds--the wild, unpredictable world beyond culture, and the beauty of the divine order of culture (as housed/described through Parvati).
Each class that i teach is different--to meet the needs of the students. Each place is different too. Most places are gyms. I need a sound barrier between our class AND the outside world of lifting weights and cardio equipment and that blasted spinning class that plays the music so loud it hurts my ears two rooms away! I like to use "eternal om" or a form of devotional music. I use music from all over the world--usually traditional music. i use chanting, tibetan flute music, native american movement, african-american spiritual, you name it. i go all over. And, i take requests. Students who practice in these places have taken to making CDs to share with the class, and they often bring 5 or 10 copies to hand out afterwards. It's very giving, i should think. And i think that's True of Yoga.
I don't generally do candles or essential oils or any of that business. scent is powerful and it can backfire on someone. and, i honestly don't know a lot about essential oils/aromatherapy, so i'm careful. i know what i like for myself, at home, and for those clients whom i know really well--and i'll only use them when one-on-one. One of my friends had a very traumatic experience once with a person who used a lot of lavendar. Whenever she smells lavendar, it brings up this trauma, and she has to leave the space ASAP. so, i'm always careful about scent--even something as gentle as lavendar can be extremely troubling to people.
my teaching focuses on alignment, modification, and intution when it comes to asana. classes are meant to be instructive, and they're challenging, but also fun. students encourage each other in and around postures, applauding often when someone finally gets something that they've been working on for a while--like a forearm balance or something like this. it's powerful to see people celebrate each other's growth and accomplishments. I'm most proud of how they support each other.
when i'm in the studio, it's probably a little more 'spiritual.' first, the studio is set up with a large altar area with krishna and radha, ganesh, and shiva. Over where the stereo is kept, is a small altar to sarasvati. lakshmi is in the front room, by the front desk. None of this was my planning, BTW, it belongs to the studio owner. He's prepping a 'studio B' and was given a hanuman for that room, so we're going to do a ritual to bring hanuman into the room that day. Veela and Ulla are going to help us with that. Very kind of them, i think. They're making a 'new ritual' that honors the 'old ways' as well as the 'new context' of the way that 'we americans' are 'hindu.'
anyway, i do my own rituals while in there with these figurines and art pieces, and i light the candles in a certain order, each lit with a different prayer (there are 40 candles total). It takes a good while. Sometimes, students get to it before i do (those who come early), and do their own ritual of lighting the candles. More and more, people are competing to light the candles, and we're trying to figure out a way to allow multiple people to do it. it's kinda funny.
in the studio, i prefer to practice in silence. It's because it's generally quiet, and people rarely give themselves the gift of silence. It can be difficult for many students to practice in silence, because they want the comfort of the distraction of music. It takes a relatively seasoned practitioner to enjoy and embrace the silence.
It really all depends upon context though. in some places, this is right. in some places, that is right. So, it depends, it always depends. I also do readings. In gyms, i focus on readings from the I Ching (they're a few paragraphs). in the studio, i'll read from any number of sources, including scriptures. veela often brings me scriptures with attendant commentaries--one page ones--that i can read while people are in savasana. Sometimes, i'll read these anywhere--some gyms are more receptive than others--but other times, only in the studio. it really depends.
it always depends. It depends upon what is right--where my heart is leading me to teach. And i trust that, above all things, my inner spirit. that always knows the truth, even when my ego says 'no way, you're not good enough." | |
| | |
| jesus! that was long, and i'm sorry for it.
truly.
just skim it. it's not that important. | |
| | |
| zoebird - 2006-02-21 6:37 PM
i remember years ago when i first started my online journey spending a good amount of time in 'christian chat' sort of forums. lots of fun really--just as much fun as here, different language. Except for this statement, which was the 'huh, interesting' thing.
Bet they didn't post SI pics....
Fundamental christians love to throw around the "truth and the bible and Jesus MUST and WILL BE defended by TRUE believers!"
What's the fun of FUNatism if there aren't people to boil in oil?
In india, there are catholic churches, and where snakes are symbols of 'bad stuff' in european churches, snakes are symbols of resurrection in indian catholic churches.
I think this is indicative of some sort of corruption of the original message. Ie snakes are almost universally good, including early europe, but at some point this changed in Christian/Catholic thought.
American culture has positively impacted buddhism (many teachers have noticed that americans are more eager for truth-seeking than their own home country men and women), and it has reflected back new ways to the 'old ways' that have challenged and influenced positively the way that buddhism is practiced in america and in the east
I think this has more to do with the active seekers looking else where. For example, in China all the cool kids are into Christainity, and Buddhism, and other "eastern" religions are very staid and boring.... There's a lot less "I HAVE to do this" attitude when you're going because you want to, rather than because of some sort of social obligation. In a lot of cases I think church has become a social club in drag disguise. Nobody really knows why there there anymore, it's a habit, and not a practice.
Your studio sounds like a lot of fun, I wish mine were more social. Instead it feels more like a ride at disney world. We all quietly cue up outside the practice room, and wait for the last class to exit the "ride". I was thinking this was just something subjective until one of the teachers made a joke about it.
It's because it's generally quiet, and people rarely give themselves the gift of silence. It can be difficult for many students to practice in silence, because they want the comfort of the distraction of music. It takes a relatively seasoned practitioner to enjoy and embrace the silence.
Why is that? I really don't understand how that works. Maybe I should start another thread. | |
| | |
| zoebird - 2006-02-21 6:41 PM
jesus! that was long, and i'm sorry for it.
truly.
just skim it. it's not that important.
I enjoyed it. | |
| | |
| And I loved the Hug story! | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| ZB - my mind boggles - truly!
So a lot of the incense/candle/music folk teach in gyms. I think we need to get ourselves out of the gyms, folks! Or at least insist that the gyms accomodate yoga more adequately and respectfully than they currently seem to do. We taught in school gyms and all over the place with various distractions for years and it is wonderful to be in a purpose-built studio now. Our studio has noise, of course. I have mentioned the airport nearby and the big jets being extra large "OMs" for our classes And we are in a large community centre so when they have a play on in the theatre, we get the banging of the washroom doors behind the studio at intermission  Usually during savasana But it is a YOGA room and we hardly ever have other groups coming in to use it so the floor is clean, the air is nice and I highly suggest those teaching in gyms work toward finding a space to teach in that is beneficial and you don't have to work so darn hard at blocking out the world while you teach and practice. Put it out there to the Universe - maybe something will happen for you! In our case, it was our students who got together and talked us into forming our non-profit. It can work
Oh yes - someone posted something about the "popular" forms of Iyengar and Ashtanga? I have to pause here and put on my diplomatic hat...... POPULAR? Really? OK, the hat isn't working.... I think perhaps I am reading too much into your choice of words but I read popular and think perhaps you mean trendy or fashionable. I think you will find that Iyengar and Ashtanga will still be going strong long after the current yoga boom fades because they are deeply rooted in yoga tradition and the teachings are passed on with integrity and honesty.
And BG you are right. Iyengar classes do include spirituality. But it is never mandatory or pushy (as far as I have ever seen, but then I like that aspect) and there is no requirement ot follow any dogma at all.
I want to be in on gossip. Hardly anybody ever PM's me! I bet you are all talking about me behind my back, too Honestly folks, don't take any of this to heart. It is just an internet message board. If you want rip roaring, spiteful, mean message boards, go to the Dancing with the Stars board or something like that. It is so horrible, it is hilarious. My favourite quote "the judging system is flaud." You will see that, at our worst, we are still pretty tame | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | HA HA HA Glenda, I bet you get more PM's that I do, 
So, are you online, do you still want me to send you a PM and we can have our little private meeting or do you want me to send you an email with all the nitty gritty details?? | |
| | |
| >Glenda - I want to be in on gossip. Hardly anybody ever PM's me! I bet you are all talking about me behind my back, too
I guess we only had to add paranoia to the mix of this thread to make it complete…
I know you are joking but couldn't resist. | |
| | |
| Jambo...
Okay seriously...
There is no gossip that I know of. I get a PM here and there, I respond...that's pretty much it. Seems like we hash things out fully in public, doesn't it? | |
| | |
| Yeah, this whole thing is an odd mix of public/private. Not quite enough people to make all the threads formal and only on topic, but I like that.
FWIW Glenda I get PMs from time to time. Generally it's stuff people don't want to discuss in public for various reasons. Sometimes you just need to vent, sometimes to give advice, sometimes to do those things I'm not allowed to talk about in a nice family thread.... | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | zoebird - 2006-02-21 6:41 PM
jesus! that was long, and i'm sorry for it.
truly.
just skim it. it's not that important.
Y'know, that's what I did? How to find time for such long posts (irrespective
of how fast you can type)?
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | tourist - 2006-02-21 7:47 PM
And BG you are right. Iyengar classes do include spirituality. But it is never mandatory or pushy (as far as I have ever seen, but then I like that aspect ) and there is no requirement ot follow any dogma at all.
I want to be in on gossip. Hardly anybody ever PM's me! I bet you are all talking about me behind my back, too Honestly folks, don't take any of this to heart. It is just an internet message board. If you want rip roaring, spiteful, mean message boards, go to the Dancing with the Stars board or something like that. It is so horrible, it is hilarious. My favourite quote "the judging system is flaud." You will see that, at our worst, we are still pretty tame
No, I can't see that anybody would put up with too much pushy spirituality, and it isn't
in Iyengar. I'm not going to touch the dogma question because I'd have to define what is
and is not dogma and that's just too hard.
I've gotten a few PMs. One was asking me to promote a spaghetti sauce on these
boards (in exchange for...some spaghetti sauce). I sent it to Piel. And just this
week I got three PMs about Tourist.
Just kidding.
| |
| | |
| Bay Guy - 2006-02-21 9:54 PM
I've gotten a few PMs. One was asking me to promote a spaghetti sauce on these
boards (in exchange for...some spaghetti sauce). I sent it to Piel. And just this
week I got three PMs about Tourist.
Yeah, I think I got one of those too.... something about her being (whispers)canadian! Like as in bacon and other evil stuff.(/whisper)
I also have gotten a couple of spam PMs, which really makes me wonder how despirate the spammer must be to PM everybody on a little board like this..... Almost felt sorry enough for them to buy their product.
Edited by GreenJello 2006-02-21 10:35 PM
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Bay Guy - 2006-02-21 9:54 PM
I've gotten a few PMs. One was asking me to promote a spaghetti sauce on these
boards (in exchange for...some spaghetti sauce). I sent it to Piel. And just this
week I got three PMs about Tourist.
I got that sphaghetti one too BG. I didn't know what to do with it...in fact, i was like WTF?? Sphaghettti on a yoga.com?? Oh well, I did recently get one of an Indian Yogi, who is in India who found me on this forum. He sent me an email of himself doing some really interesting asana's...that I've never seen before. They were really good and no GJ, they weren't porno's!! He thought I was an expert yogi..hahaha. If I could do those asana's he was doing...then I would consider the expert yogi, Then everytime someone new signs on they send me one saying hi, those are always nice, I like those the best.
Well, I just got a PM from Glenda, better go see what the hell she wants, Cya'll later. | |
| | |
| tourist:
the mind boggles at the length of the post? i had a little over an hour to be on the internet. I was able to read three posts and respond to this one and start the one i had come to start in the first place. that's it. usually, i can get a lot more of yoga.com boards in that time, when i write shorter posts.
but i think this topic is really interesting, in a lot of different directions, and therefore definately worth talking about from a number of different directions.
as to the gym situation, i hear what you're saying, and i'm also going to be contrary. I don't like teaching in gym spaces, but i don't mind teaching in gyms. There are drawbacks--noisy, dirty rooms and low pay. But, there are also benefits--lots of eager students who wouldn't necessarily go to or pay extra for a studio, access to a gym facility (if you're like me, or my husband, and you like other aspects of gym facilities--i particularly like accesses to hot tubs and saunas), to name a couple. So, there are plusses and minuses to everything.
part of the reason why i started teaching in gyms is because when i first started teaching, i wasn't 'allowed' to teach in the studio without a senior teacher present, or only as an assistant to a sr teacher. i could occassionally--and only if absolutely necessary--sub on my own. But, my teachers insisted that i needed to find opportunities to teach without them. occassionally, they would toss something my way--a 6 wk stint teaching at the local physical rehab center or hospital, or a one-day workshop for a teacher in-service at the local elementary school, or perhaps even the opportunity to work with a local sports team. But, generally, it was nothing too 'consistant.' And i started to think about what would be 'consistant' and so i checked out a gym near me. I paid to go to this gym (as i do like weight training, saunas, and hot tubs), and i thought that maybe they would add me in as a fitness class (this was generally before yoga was held in gyms). So, i asked them to, explained the benefits for their clients, and then got a job.
I used the aerobics room, of course, and sometimes it was noisier and sometimes it wasn't. it depends upon the gym actually. There's one gym that i go to that's very clean, that's very accomodating to the yoga teachers (they have at least one yoga class a day at this gym), and it's also quiet, so i don't really have to use any music. But, there's no wall space what so ever for inversions, so that becomes partner work. But, other gyms are noisier. Some are "too noisy!" and i have to make complaints about it on a regular basis--talking to the instructor of that spinning class about turning the music down a decibel or two, and reminding the front desk to turn down the ambient music speaker that's right above the aerobics room door--then i'm able to use basic "om" or flute music or something light to give an adequate break for people.
when i decided to move from part time teaching to full time, i also needed more volumn of classes to support myself. so, i went to gyms, as they were starting to develop yoga programs. i was able to 'sell myself' and yoga so that i could teach. I really just wanted to work--and yoga studios were notorious for incestuous hiring (that is, only hiring people that they trained--which hey, makes sense). So, it was hard to get into those doors. Around here, studios have a particular flavor--kali ray, bikram, baptiste, 'just astanga,' power yoga with a particularly athletic focus, forrest yoga, tantra yoga, classical yoga, and a pilates/yoga blend and a pilates/yoga/martial arts blend (where yes, classes are literally blended, as well as individual/separate). oh, and there's one school that now only teaches two asana classes a week, the rest of their classes are meditation, sanskrit, and mantra classes (interesting). They make most of their money training teachers--right now they're running an ayurvedic yoga series. it's actually a great class, but when i'm teaching. But, i digress.
so what happens if you're not one of these "brands" or you don't fit in with a 'blend?' (because, seriously, i don't) basicly, these studios aren't hiring. I had my own studio for a while--we know what happened with that. I don't have the time/money to invest. And the studio where i work, he's seeking to develop and diversify, so i feel lucky that we have a similar feeling about things, and that he just lets me teach what i want. I'm on a number of sub lists for other studios, and when i show up to sub, there's always a list "remember, at this studio, we don't chant OM, and we don't do the following 5 postures EVER and we always make sure to do the following 75 postures no matter what, and in this order, and no prayer or reading either, unless the reading comes from this book, and only if it's on page 57..." so, i rarely sub either.
so this leaves me with seeking out places to teach--the Y, the senior center, the basement of a church, someone's house, my house, or a gym. Not many of these places have 'ideal' yoga rooms, but when the classes start to take off, they start to have a little more respect for us, and give us space (in a sense of 'mental space') and that's great.
So, i could wait for the perfect location, or i could teach yoga. I think i'll teach yoga, and learn how to adapt the location so that it's functional. It's not perfect, but it doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to be what it is.
and as a policy, i stay away from gossip as much as i possibly can. most the PMs i get are either about things that i've posted (a person wants more information or direction), or stuff that is encouraging (for both parties). so, i've never really had a negative PM experience. and i strive not to send negative pms. | |
| | |
|
So a lot of the incense/candle/music folk teach in gyms. I think we need to get ourselves out of the gyms, folks! Or at least insist that the gyms accomodate yoga more adequately and respectfully than they currently seem to do. We taught in school gyms and all over the place with various distractions for years and it is wonderful to be in a purpose-built studio now.
And what about our students' in gyms?? Had my first teacher not decided to put up with the gym atmosphere and teach there I might not have discovered yoga. After I lost my job and moved back home, a studio wasn't even an option for me, because they were too expensive -- as much as $100 a month compared to $35-45 a month and the Y offers scholarships for low-income students. So I teach in gyms and serve students who for, whatever reason, can't or won't go to a studio and I happen to think that is a good thing. True, its difficult and often annoying, but I love yoga, I love sharing it and I share it however I can.
Oh yes - someone posted something about the "popular" forms of Iyengar and Ashtanga? I have to pause here and put on my diplomatic hat...... POPULAR? Really? OK, the hat isn't working.... I think perhaps I am reading too much into your choice of words but I read popular and think perhaps you mean trendy or fashionable. I think you will find that Iyengar and Ashtanga will still be going strong long after the current yoga boom fades because they are deeply rooted in yoga tradition and the teachings are passed on with integrity and honesty.
I'll be a little less diplomatic. Get a grip. "Popular" is not an insult. It just means people have actually heard of it. When people ask me what kind of yoga I teach, they expect to hear Ashtanga or Shivananda or something, and I say its just plain Hatha yoga. It's all Hatha yoga.
I have the highest respect for Iyengar teachers and when I have students with special needs that I can't address, Iyengar is the tradition I encourage them to explore. If they want more power, I suggest Ashtanga or a local teacher who teaches a strong flow based on Ashtanga and Forrest yoga.
I just don't think any one tradition is the beginning and the end and the whole definition of yoga. I have no doubt they will all be around long after I've stopped teaching my Sharon-mix-up yoga style. I have no illusions that I know more than a highly trained Iyengar teacher or for that matter a highly trained Ashtanga teacher for that matter.
I just do what I do instictively and with love and respect for my students. If you don't think that think that "true" yoga, then you are entitled to your opinion.
Sharon
Edited by skatrenah 2006-02-22 12:24 AM
| |
| | |
| z-bird says:
Americans will hug strangers
this is true, but i find that hugging has become something of an empty gesture in our culture. don't get me wrong, i like hugs. i give sincere hugs pretty frequently, y'know?
but how often do you get one of those weak, one armed hugs..i just have to shudder...
how long has this been going on, this practice of hugging? i bet you didn't hug someone in the fifties. you gave them a firm handshake, maybe tipped your hat.
it'd be cool if people still wore hats. fifties hats.
z also writes:
the second thing that i read that really struck me (not positively or negatively, but as a 'huh, that's interesting' kind of way--was the statement that the truth of yoga will be defended
i guess i kind of hold that opinion. while i do recognize that i have a leaning towards being a yoga snob at times, i think that what we're against is more the commodification and cheapening of spiritual tradition. its not a crusade against gym yoga and scented candles, but the identification of these things as the essence of yoga by john q. public.
the fearsome serpent of marketing clouds the minds of many. an d he is everywhere, the tricky devil.
i posted this link earlier. i don't know how many people actually looked at it, but it explains my (and others?) position pretty concisely.
i realize that any yoga is better than no yoga, but i was thinking earlier today how asana is third on the path after yamas and niyamas. i remember when how the little light came on in my soul. naturally practicing asana will nudge you in their direction, but i'd certainly like to see more instruction in that direction.
i wish i would have had some...
and certainly people with hundreds of hours spent reading yoga message boards have a pretty good idea of this, but not everyone is so ascetic, eh? i just feel that the state of yoga, nay, society in general could use more of an emphasis on the basic principles of being a 'good' person. especially humility (that means you, dhanurasana)
perhaps the eight limbed path could be offered in schools, an elective of sorts. how old would children have to be to get that? i think they could start between 6 and 8. really challenge them to study themselves and think objectively from an early age, not just perfect the memorization and regurgitation of facts...
ooh now i'm thinking of a curriculum.
thats a story for another post, though
Edited by dhanurasana 2006-02-22 2:21 AM
| |
| | |
| oops...
heres the link:
http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/Article/117/112731.htm
| |
| | |
| dhanurasana -
perhaps the eight limbed path could be offered in schools, an elective of sorts. how old would children have to be to get that? i think they could start between 6 and 8. really challenge them to study themselves and think objectively from an early age, not just perfect the memorization and regurgitation of facts...
That's a wonderful idea!
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | My children know the yamas and niyamas, but they would die if I brought it up around their friends.
In my classes I try to pass along suggestions of a more peaceful and happier life based on the principles of the eight limbs. People know these are unwritten guidelines, in most religions, but sometimes they forget to implement them.
I agree that children should be taught them. I've contributed by teaching mine. Maybe one day when they are more mature they will share and maybe appreciate all I give to them.
What a nice world this would be if all children were taught from a very young age the proper way to conduct themselves and respect themselves.
Peace
Mish | |
| | |
| dhanurasana - 2006-02-22 2:07 AM
z-bird says:
Americans will hug strangers
this is true, but i find that hugging has become something of an empty gesture in our culture. don't get me wrong, i like hugs. i give sincere hugs pretty frequently, y'know?
but how often do you get one of those weak, one armed hugs..i just have to shudder...
how long has this been going on, this practice of hugging? i bet you didn't hug someone in the fifties. you gave them a firm handshake, maybe tipped your hat.
it'd be cool if people still wore hats. fifties hats.
I'm not a big (non-family) hugger in everyday life, but once the Dead shows come into town, it's hug city with the wookies. | |
| | |
| mishoga - 2006-02-22 9:59 AM
What a nice world this would be if all children were taught from a very young age the proper way to conduct themselves and respect themselves.
Isn't this what parents are for? | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Jeeze - I didn't even get the spagetti spam! It must be the Canadian thing - we just eat bacon and drink beer after hocky and curling - never spagetti
ZB - I have always had visions of your keyboard smoking as you type I took drama in jr. high instead of typing. Who knew we would all be living on our keyboards by now back in 1968?
Thanks for all who replied to the gym comments. I absolutely understand why people teach in gyms (but why the heck are they so dirty??) and probably would be doing it myself if there wasn't such a big Iyengar community here. The comment was intended to raise awarenss and help us examine why we are accepting a situation we don't care for (see, I am spolied because I have a hot tub at home to go to after class ) and maybe take a look at some options. Sometimes there are possibilities out there that we simply have not considered or not had time to consider. Putting it out there to think about will help us decide if this is the best thing or if it is just the easiest (for now or for always) thing. And ZB, I think we know that you in particular will pretty much never choose the path of least resistance!
I sure wish we could see all the posts in a thread when replying. Does one of the other post viewing options let you do that?
Sharon. I have a pretty good grip I was a little on edge last night for some reason although it wasn't clear to me why or even accessable to me consciously, but it did come up in the rest of the evening as well DH let me know I was mainly making the point that a simple word can have huge connotations for someone that may not be intended by the OP. I think I explained how I read "popular" but probably the dictionary would agree with your use of it, as both styles of yoga you mention are practiced by a very large segment of the yoga population. Ah yes: "Accepted by or prevalent among the people in general" is listed but also: "Fit for, adapted to, or reflecting the taste of the people at large." So my take on teh word was correct but I am guessing you mean the first one. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Dhanurasana,
I read your post about hugs and it made me chuckle. When I first met my ex husband's family, they loved to give out hugs and kisses on the cheek. I was totally not used to that. Eventually, I did learn to tolerate it, but it wasn't until my Mother died, that I realized what a true *hug* was. I had 3 people close to me pass away during that time of my life. My Aunt, My Mother and my African Grey Parrot Max. When I hugged my Mother in the hospital once, there was this warm, energy that I cannot explain that radiated from my heart to hers. It was like a jolt of lightening experience, but not the kind that would kill you. It felt incredible, to the point it made me cry. Before that experience with my Mother, I had that experience twice before, once when my Aunt was dying, and when my parrot was dying he laid on my chest and I felt the same thing. At that time with these 2, I brushed it off. My Mother however, was the one that turned on the light for me and it was her death experience that opened up a totally different world for me. She showed me so many things before she parted this earth, it was so incredible. Later on in my life I have met people over the years who have given me a hug and I felt that heart to heart connection. Some make me cry, some I just don't feel anything. When I met HH Dalai Lama the first time, I cried. When Wayne Dyer hugged me after his workshop, I cried. When one of my very first teachers (I don't call her a guru because she is an American and it doesn't fit her even though she really is one) I also felt that connection. It is very powerful stuff.
So, these people that go around hugging for no reason, I try not to waste my time, I avoid it. I would rather hug trees, Now days, I don't have to hug, I can feel that person's vibration and you intuitively know. But, If I want a hug, I'll certainly go and do it!!
The part about the Truth of Yoga finding its way or whatever...hmm?? That is interesting. I have lots of thoughts on that and disagreements with that generalized statement. I will say this is not Catholism and its not Sunday School Class. Perhaps with certain reactions to the Yoga industry like mine for instance.....There are beings that exist around us called the "Dharma Protectors". Anyway, it doesn't matter really because the Yoga in America is only skimming the surface of what true yoga is about. When you get tired of it, you will seek the truth if you are sincere. Incense and candles can only do so much and has its limits.
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | Jelloman, yeah, that's what parents are for but for some reason it doesn't always go the way it should. You live what you learn.
I'm off to instruct one of my music loving, candle burning yoga fest classes
Manana peeps
Mish | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC |
I agree that children should be taught them. I've contributed by teaching mine. Maybe one day when they are more mature they will share and maybe appreciate all I give to them.
What a nice world this would be if all children were taught from a very young age the proper way to conduct themselves and respect themselves.
AAhhh the Joys of Homeschooling, this is why I do it!! Teaching children the Yamas and Niyamas doesn't have to be grueling and it can be very subtle. For instance, I find it is better to be the example of the yamas and niyamas rather than teaching what they are. Especially with American children who need to be able to make their own minds due to the choices out there. Giving them the foundation is one thing, but ultimately they will have to decide what is best for them.
My son who is 21 thinks all this yoga stuff is ridiculous. He is not crazy about going to the temple...however, he loves his Methodist church and attends very regularly. That makes me more proud, because he is living his truth and his path. My daughter is different because she is with me all the time. She is exposed to everything...she was in New York with me when we drove the lamas to NYC during the HH Dalai Lama visit, we spent 3 weeks in a Tibetan Buddhist Temple, we lived there. She also is exposed to the other temples we visit and whenever she is not with me, the priests get upset and ask, "Where is your daughter??, give your daughter this prasad (usually a flower and some fruit)".
So, we don't have to make a big deal about this, we can just expose them and be the example, not necessarily drill into their heads with the intellect, but just simply be. It's more effective in this society and culture due to the other things they have to deal with and are exposed to on a daily basis..especially teenagers. My daughter's cousins call her all the time seeking out her unconditional friendship. Her cousins are 14 and 13, go to public schools and deal with so much. Once her cousin was being very mean and nasty to this girl at her school. My daughter got really upset with her cousin. She told her that she was out of line and should not do that, it was cruel and mean. My daughter has my blood in her, you think I'm outspoken, hahaha Her cousin calls her every day to check in and chat. She loves my daughter and out of all her friends at school, my daughter is her best friend and they live in the state next door - 3 hours away. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | mishoga - 2006-02-22 11:16 AM
Jelloman, yeah, that's what parents are for but for some reason it doesn't always go the way it should. You live what you learn.
That reminds me...how did your investigation with your son's computer go?? You never did come back and finish the scoop on that.
Edited by Cyndi 2006-02-22 11:44 AM
| |
| | |
| Cyndi - 2006-02-22 11:28 AM
That reminds me...how did your spying on your son's computer go?? You never did come back and finish the scoop on that.
This is an attack. First, it supposes something that has no proof. Second, it makes a negative and hurtful statement. Finally, it's directed specifically against one person.
It really doesn't have anything to do with finding truth, or helping people, just with whipping things up in a frenzy. Maybe one of the mods will do something about this? | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | That was not an attack...that was a question and it was a thread that was going on back in December if I recall. So, I reworded it from spying to Investigation...does that make you happy GJ?? I will only do this one time, the change in my wording that is. In the future, if I wanted to attack someone, you will know it...and you will know it well,
I'm very much aware of how much I can get away with and I am also aware of how I push close to the edge sometimes...I can assure you that my intentions is NOT to attack any one personally....my intentions are something greater than that. You just don't get it, yet...perhaps if you stay on a yoga path long enough, you might get a glimpse of exactly what I mean and where I'm coming from. Until then, just know, I'm not attacking, I'm just as sweet and kind as the next person...you just don't see that because you are always looking at the negative - that is all you see and not just with me either.
Edited by Cyndi 2006-02-22 11:59 AM
| |
| | |
| First. I loved the hugs story. I've always found it kind of odd and unconfortable when strangers hug me. I appreciate the new perspective on it. Maybe I'll react differently the next time.
Sharon. I have a pretty good grip I was a little on edge last night for some reason although it wasn't clear to me why or even accessable to me consciously, but it did come up in the rest of the evening as well DH let me know I was mainly making the point that a simple word can have huge connotations for someone that may not be intended by the OP. I think I explained how I read "popular" but probably the dictionary would agree with your use of it, as both styles of yoga you mention are practiced by a very large segment of the yoga population. Ah yes: "Accepted by or prevalent among the people in general" is listed but also: "Fit for, adapted to, or reflecting the taste of the people at large." So my take on teh word was correct but I am guessing you mean the first one.
Ah the dictiionary. One of my favorite books. I was a journalist for 10 years, but only managed 2 1/2 as a copy editor. As a copy editor words have to be very specific, because you have so little space. I was fond of using precise dictionary definitions to argue why a word was appropriate. Finally one of the older copy editors said to me:
"You know, Sharon, the dictionary is the least common denominator."
Words don't just have meaning. They have connotations. They bring out emotions. When I was writing as a reporter, I got in the habit of making words as neutral as possible, unless I had good reason to spice it up. And still people complained, because there's one variable you can't account for -- perspective.
There's a group in Texas that endorses every Democrat, stands up for gay rights, and believes that taking money from rich schools and giving it to poor schools is the best thing since Reconstruction. I called them "liberal" in an article and they complained. "Liberal" is a bad word in Texas, she explained. It didn't seem to matter to her that they ARE LIBERAL.
When I wrote "popular" I did it from my own perspective. Those forms are well-known and have a large number of followers. Perhaps they are not adapted to a the people at large, but they appeal to people at large or at least a large number of people who happen to do yoga. Ashtanga appeals to the segment that wants a class more like their aerobic or stronger classes. Iyengar appeals to those who want the opposite of their gym classes.
But the way I read your post, you read popular as "fadish". A "fad", according to my dictionary is "a fashion that is taken up with great enthusiasm for a short period of time."
So I told you to get a grip, because I thought you reading more into my post than I was writing.
Edited by skatrenah 2006-02-22 12:05 PM
| |
| | |
| Cyndi -
That was not an attack...that was a question and it was a thread that was going on back in December if I recall.
After yesterday, I think it's safe to say this wasn't the best thing to say to Mish. It doesn't come off as trying to verbally reconnect in a friendly way. | |
| | |
| Cyndi -
That was not an attack...that was a question and it was a thread that was going on back in December if I recall.
After yesterday, I think it's safe to say this wasn't the best thing to say to Mish. It doesn't come off as trying to verbally reconnect in a friendly way.
Oh man, here we go again. And just when I thought we were all rebonding over the trashing of over-weight people and walmart. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Kabu - 2006-02-22 12:03 PM
After yesterday, I think it's safe to say this wasn't the best thing to say to Mish. It doesn't come off as trying to verbally reconnect in a friendly way.
Who said anything about verbally reconnecting?? I was asking a simple question, it was a thread that never got to be completed. Excuse me, maybe I should of gone and dug it up and posted it there, perhaps that would of been more appropriate for you guys. Frankly, I'm getting really bored with this do good society...talk about lightening up. I think I need to consider finding another place to hang my hat instead of this forum, it's not fun anymore..no freedom of speech, everyone is so touchy and lately, so biased too. I know, that would make you guys really happy, then you can sit here and be bored to death. Who's gonna be balls enough to stir things up and have these *lively* *thought* provoking discussions, huh??? I promise you the dialogue will be completely boring and dull, when I'm gone, | |
| | |
| No no, I was merely offering a different perspective.
We're all supposed to learn from each other, right? | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Jambo - 2006-02-22 12:10 PM
Oh man, here we go again. And just when I thought we were all rebonding over the trashing of over-weight people and walmart.
You call that re-bonding??? Jambo, let's go sing some more songs and bhajans...It's the One-eyed, one horned Purple People Eater, HELTER SKELTER, Om Nama Shivia, THAT IS what I call true bonding, | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Kabu - 2006-02-22 12:18 PM
No no, I was merely offering a different perspective.
We're all supposed to learn from each other, right?
I'm going to make you eat crow here Lori, but in a fun way.
You sit here and claim a different perspective and we are all suppose to learn from each other, right???
What about my perspective here?? After all that has been said and done here, what about my input?? Just because I don't do it the way you guys *think* it should be done, my posts get violated and ripped to shreds!! If I really wanted to get technical, I would say I was the one being attacked here. There is a lot to be said about the term "good association". In doing my own soul searching, sometimes I think I waste my time sitting here talking to you guys. I feel like you guys are not sincere about the yoga practice and that all you are looking for is comfort and joy. Life is full of everything, good and bad. All that needs to be looked at when you are on a yoga path and there needs to be some kind of acceptance and tolerance. If I were grading here, I would give you guys an "F" for your acceptance and tolerance skills. I give you an A+ in the Sanctimonious Act and I give you an A+ for being forcing your way on others and not allowing anyone to be different than you. I feel like I'm being oppressed here. When I pointed out earlier in this thread about the candles, incense and musica, I was being kind and gentle, you guys are the ones who got all defensive about it. You know as well as I do that most of this stuff would never be tolerated and practiced in a true yoga setting. It is not part of the teachings to have music. The true yoga teachings are taught so that you are not DEPENDANT on anything EXTERNAL in this world...this includes musica, candles and incense. That is the true spirit of yoga and is the true meaning of LIBERATION. I want people to know that truth because it is the ultimate experience one can ever have. Once you've discovered that, then music doesn't even sound the same. Incense and candles burn totally differently, trust me. | |
| | |
| Well Cyndi, I suppose I was assuming you were trying to reconnect after yesterday's discussion with Mish, and one should never assume. So that is my mistake.
It's not that we can't discuss anything interesting or thought provoking here. And of all the forums I've been on, this one is the least biased and about as clique-less as they come. Sure, we bring our personalities to the conversations (which is natural and unavoidable), but I think this group goes out of its way to be a little more open and understanding. That doesn't mean we don't fail sometimes, but we sure try harder than say...oh...people on some political forums.
What I would like to see is us discuss issues without being harsh. I think some may agree with me on this. Yes, it's just an internet message board, but we make friends here, so the words can be powerful. Just as we can inspire each other or make each other laugh, we also have the ability to tear down and make each other feel like crap. That fact is easy to forget because we're online and not face to face.
There is freedom of speech, but there is also a measure of compassionate restraint that would be worth continuing to cultivate in each of us. Really if you think about it, this is the perfect place to practice! We should all feel comfortable here saying, "Ugh...I feel horrible...this is what happened..." or "I don't know what got into me, I'm so sorry..." or even "I'm so alone, I need someone to talk to." You can't do this just anywhere, but I believe here you can.
Now, if you want a forum that's a complete free for all, try the "It's Happening" forum. Based on world issues (and with most excellent smilies!), there are few rules. "As this IS A "TOURETTE'S" FRIENDLY WEB FORUM..." is in their terms of service.
I used to have the energy for that stuff, but I don't anymore. And the conspiracy theories were making me nuts! 
*Edited because I can't spell
Edited by Kabu 2006-02-22 1:00 PM
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Lori,
That is all fine and good what you said. But then again, you are telling me you don't want harsh. That is dictating and and forcing yourself onto others. Harsh is sometimes necessary, especially when you are in a debate. I've listened to 5 Tibeten monks and their Rinpoche debate in my Suburban for 24 hours on a trip to NYC. I don't understand all the Tibetan language, but I understood most of it, plus they would translate from time to time what they were saying. If an American had heard all that and the things they said to each other, you would have flipped out. I'm sorry, I quit going to Sunday School a long time ago. I never did do well with Ms. Manners and Etiquette because I thought it was BS and I still do.
You can still be harsh and be friends or friendly. I think that most yoga people here in the west have a hard time with that and that is why I have seen Guru's literally get up and walk out of the room and refuse to teach Westerners. You are not ready to accept the truth and when you hear it, you guys can't handle it because you are so set in your ways of how you think things should be and how it should be expressed. Which is understandable, because that is the American way.
Edited by Cyndi 2006-02-22 1:08 PM
| |
| | |
| Okay, I just read your next to last reply. (I can't keep up!)
I'm so, so sorry you feel like you were attacked. I tried to word my posts carefully to avoid that. Certainly "violated" and "ripped to shreads" was not the feeling I was going for. I assure you, I'm a lamb at heart and wouldn't intentionally zero in with such ferocity. So if I contributed in any way, I do sincerely apologize and humbly ask to be given a second chance.
I understand how you feel about your practice and the practice of Yoga in general, and trust me...that does not bother me at all. I don't think you're wrong or strange, nor do I want to push my practice on you. I put myself in your shoes and can imagine how frustrating it must be to see what you think is a watered down version of Yoga. But evolution is natural, and Yoga will do just what everything else does in life. Your Yoga doesn't need to change though, and no one will stop you from practicing the way you see fit.
What upset me about this thread had nothing to do with how we practice Yoga and everything to do with how we speak to one another. I had no problem with your first post, and though I can't go back and see the posts now, I don't remember anything but you sharing how you felt about Yoga in America. That was cool and certainly nothing new.
But when Mish said something about being rigid in our perception of how Yoga should be practiced, your tone changed. It wasn't what you were saying, it was how you were saying it. Again, I can't go back and pick out exact quotes, and frankly I don't think that would be helpful at this point (I hate when people do that anyway), but you seemed to get angry and aggressive, 2 really normal, human responses. Only Mish can say for sure, but I think she was hurt. And we don't need to do that here. There's a better way. (Ack! I just quoted a Democrat!!)
Honest ~ I force nothing on you and only ask that you be aware of when your emotions might pepper your responses with aggression. When I do the same, I would be grateful if you and my other friends here would point it out.
In doing my own soul searching, sometimes I think I waste my time sitting here talking to you guys. I feel like you guys are not sincere about the yoga practice and that all you are looking for is comfort and joy.
I'm really glad you told me this. I had no idea you felt this way. I mean, I knew you had your own beliefs about how Yoga should be practiced, but I didn't know the way some of us approached Yoga frustrated you this much.
Edited by Kabu 2006-02-22 1:23 PM
| |
| | |
| Okay, NOW I read your last post. Got it!
I'm tired.
PS. Thanks for talking with me. I know you probably have schoolwork to do, and Lord knows all Hell's breaking loose in my kitchen, so I appreciate the time and effort.
Edited by Kabu 2006-02-22 1:31 PM
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Kabu - 2006-02-22 1:25 PM
Okay, NOW I read your last post. Got it!
I'm tired.
PS. Thanks for talking with me. I know you probably have schoolwork to do, and Lord knows all Hell's breaking loose in my kitchen, so I appreciate the time and effort.
Lori,
I'm not frustrated, sometimes disappointed. I like it when like minds can come together and have a debate and fun...not taking it all to heart. What I find to be most disappointing is the *church* like "holier than thou" atmosphere that has been filtering onto this forum more and more. I don't particularly like that because I think it is kind of nauseating and oppressing....even though our country seems to be leaning towards oppression - BIGTIME these days. My practice is a way to cut through all that BS. It's just not COOL, if you will, anymore. It feels like I'm sitting around with a bunch of sensitive old people...and some of you guys are younger than me. Some of the coolest people I know are from South India and Tibet. Even though the yoga practice itself is very serious, disciplined and probably rigid in some peoples eyes, we have fun...true wholesome Blissful Fun!
I hit the submit button too soon...what do you mean all hell is breaking loose in the kitchen?? I'm afraid to ask, You should of been at my house yesterday, we are learning how to DRIVE a car. That was really fun. My daugher is 13, and I want her to be fully trained in how to handle a vehicle on any terrain. Driver's Ed....such an interesting class. I hope I can survive through it. Talk about testing your tolerance and patience....
Edited by Cyndi 2006-02-22 2:19 PM
| |
| | |
| I think it's impossible to read threads and not have our mental image of the frequent posters cloud our perceptions of what is being said. It's like the name and the little picture precondition us to react to the comments in a certain way.
There are many, many interesting points going on here.
But most importantly...
ONE MORE PAGE AND WE UNSEAT THE INFAMOUS "BOSTON" THREAD AS THE BIGGEST EVER!!!
| |
| | |
| Mitch - 2006-02-22 2:56 PM
I think it's impossible to read threads and not have our mental image of the frequent posters cloud our perceptions of what is being said. It's like the name and the little picture precondition us to react to the comments in a certain way.
True, but that doesn't necessarily mean those impressions are wrong.
Actually the "Can Christians Practice Yoga?" thread was around 15, 16 pages? Anyway, flame wars always causes lots and lots of posts. | |
| | |
| I'm new to this forum and feel like maybe I should have started in a safer place. Is there a safer place?
Anyway, its a little like I'm butting in on an argument among old friends and don't know the rules, but the discussion reminded me of this passage from a biography of Swami Vivekananda that I found during my teacher training days.
"Narendra was Ramakrishna's favorite disciple. But he would not accept as gospel truth all that Narendra said. Narendra was highly critical of people who worshipped idols. He rejected the theory of "Advaita" (monism). He had no faith in mystic experiences. Advaitic assertions such as "I am Brahman", "I am Shiva" did not impress Narendra.But Sri Ramakrishna would always bring him back to the right path by saying, "There are many roads to reach a destination. No one has the right to say that the path the other man takes is not the right one. It is improper to pass judgement on anything that one does not understand."
http://www.balagokulam.org/teach/biographies/swami.php
As a journalist I heard a lot of people tell me different versions on the "truth." None of them really matched the "facts." And when you're talking about the facts of spriritualily we will only know for sure when we've reached enlightenment.
I happen to believe Sri Ramakrishna was right. The paths are all like rivers that lead to the same ocean.
In seeking bliss or union with unlimited consciousness, it is true that we shouldn't need any support. But it is also true that nothing should be able to distract us. We should be able to meditate on a busy street or in a quiet room.
I see the yoga that you describe Cyndi. It would be nice if my world supported it, but it doesn't. If I needed what you have to do yoga, then I wouldn't do yoga and that would be a bit of a tragedy. I don't judge you and I don't want to preach to you. I just happen to believe that there is more than one path to God and more than one yogic path.
Sharon | |
| | |
| GreenJello - 2006-02-22 3:02 PM
True, but that doesn't necessarily mean those impressions are wrong.
I disagree. Those impressions are necessarily wrong. They're based on limited, incomplete, and perhaps dishonest information at best. Now, if you're making the case that the yoga.com "character" of Green Jello is exactly as presented, then I'll grant you that. But I can't believe that I know everything about Andrew just from reading your posts.
Here's a weird example...I think I can honestly say that I have a different visceral reaction to Cyndi's posts since she switched avatars from the Hindu swastika to the goddess. Cyndi hasn't changed. Intellectually I know that the swastika is a Hindu and Buddhist symbol of peace. But seeing it affected my perceptions, based on my subconscious reactions to the western view of swastikas. But it's all me me me.
{p.s. I'm only using Cyndi's avatar as an example because my point isn't as strong if I bemoan the loss of Kabu's dancing banana! } | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Sharon,
I'm not sure what you mean about the *yoga I have*...I have nothing, I possess nothing and I do Yoga in nothingness. This concept does not have to be supported by the world, this is just how it is and always was. I don't need candles, incence and musica to have a complete yoga practice. From your previous postings you are the one who created your own world by needing all those accessories, that is your choice, now you got to carry that baggage around with you don't you?? Try it without it sometime, you might like it. You might also discover that the world is very manipulating and wants to keep you in a sea of delusion. To say that you're world doesn't support it, and saying mine does, is BS. My world is no different from yours. We come from the same Divine source. Some of us are just more in tuned and connected with it. Some of us who have been on this journey for quite some time now, don't know of any other way to be and we know if we disconnect ourself from that source, we know what happens to us because we have been there and done that and don't want to go back.
As for meditating on a busy street and whereever, sure thing. Hun, I stay in a state of meditation 24/7...once you have experienced that and practiced it well, you just simply reside in that state of being, all the time. It's like a water faucet that you can't turn off. It doesn't mean that I don't like to get my A$$ back to the mountains back to solitude and peace...there is nothing wrong with that either. Good Association is very important in this yoga practice, this includes environment as well.
One thing that really aggravates me is persons who go around using the Veda, the Upanishads and ancient scriptures to promote their gospel according to Yoga and their interpretations of it. This is not always accurate to the situation at hand, and again, is only another perception, not a truth. Take care, this is not an attack okay,
Cyndi
Edited by Cyndi 2006-02-22 4:07 PM
| |
| | |
| Mitch - 2006-02-22 3:41 PM
I disagree. Those impressions are necessarily wrong. They're based on limited, incomplete, and perhaps dishonest information at best. Now, if you're making the case that the yoga.com "character" of Green Jello is exactly as presented, then I'll grant you that. But I can't believe that I know everything about Andrew just from reading your posts.
This is the case at all times. It's not possible to get all the information, so at best we get an impression and go from there. Even if you were to meet me in RL, you'd just get a different impression. Neither one is necessarily wrong, they're just different because they're different pieces of information. Hopefully, as we progress we get a clearer and clearer view of what's going on. It's not like you're going to meet me in RL and find out that I'm really a small dog, or a 3 year old kid, or something else.
Here's a weird example...I think I can honestly say that I have a different visceral reaction to Cyndi's posts since she switched avatars from the Hindu swastika to the goddess. Cyndi hasn't changed. Intellectually I know that the swastika is a Hindu and Buddhist symbol of peace. But seeing it affected my perceptions, based on my subconscious reactions to the western view of swastikas. But it's all me me me.
{p.s. I'm only using Cyndi's avatar as an example because my point isn't as strong if I bemoan the loss of Kabu's dancing banana! }
Yeah, I agree, which is part of the reason I switch avatars fairly often. It's also the reason why I started out with something fairly simple, and neutral. (a simple pic of a slab of green jello) I also have a very positive reaction to your avatar, which shows two very respectable yogis smiling and in a good mood. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Mitch - 2006-02-22 3:41 PM
Here's a weird example...I think I can honestly say that I have a different visceral reaction to Cyndi's posts since she switched avatars from the Hindu swastika to the goddess. Cyndi hasn't changed. Intellectually I know that the swastika is a Hindu and Buddhist symbol of peace. But seeing it affected my perceptions, based on my subconscious reactions to the western view of swastikas. But it's all me me me.
{p.s. I'm only using Cyndi's avatar as an example because my point isn't as strong if I bemoan the loss of Kabu's dancing banana! }
Mitch, that's okay. I got so many PM's about that dam thing!! I wish you guys would have seen it differently. I kept it anyway for the longest time until I found that really cool spinning OM, which you guys also complained about saying it made you dizzy and stuff. Then the ultimate one was given to me by a Nepali friend and after Fifi told me that she really liked it and it reminded her of Genie, how I could never depart with it. BTW, my avatar is Durga if anyone is interested in knowing that little tidbit about me.
I'm so flattered you used my swastika as an example, that was good Mitch!!...guess what?? I have a huge OM hand painted by my Nepali artist husband on my kitchen wall, with 2 swastika's underneath, along with my little mini Tibetan Flags... talk about having your food blessed!! It looks so dam cool too, | |
| | |
| You know Cyndi, if we listed all our beliefs in detail, we'd probably agree more than we disagree. I just think truth is elusive and I doubt that either of us has all the answers.
I'm not judging you. You are judging me. And we know so very little about each other. You can't judge my practice from these posts any more than I can judge yours.
It's not that I need music to do yoga. I do yoga without music all the time, but there was a time when I needed it. There came a time when I needed to learn to practice without it. It is a process.
Currently it helps my meditation to sit at an altar, light a candle and say a mantra to Ganesh to ask him to clear the obstacles from my path. But when I was in the dentist chair and they put that mold in my mouth and told me not to move, the only way I could get through it was to meditate.
I don't need the trappings, but they help. And some people need them. I have a student who meditates while sitting in traffic. Some can't stand 5 minutes of silence at the end of class. We are all in different places. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I'm not judging you Sharon, see that is where you are mistaken. I'm only making a statement based on your postings and what you have stated so far. I have no reason to judge you and I don't have that much information about you to form any kind of real judging anyway, that would be silly and quite ignorant of me wouldn't you say?? See this is what I'm talking about. You need to learn how to distinquish between judging and general comments about the different subjects. Just by saying what you did is really borderlining judging me, but I don't care, when I was simply having a conversation. This is why it is so difficult for people to communicate, they take everything so literally and so personally. This is an open board, if you want personal, that is what PM's are for.
For the record, when I speak, I speak to not only you Sharon, but I speak in general terms so that someone else may benefit from the topic. I take it further and much deeper. So try NOT to read what I say to be strictly personal to only you. There are very many others reading this thread too. | |
| | |
| Cyndi,
Point taken on the topic of the comments being personal. Forgive me. But you do sound like you're globally judging western yoga.
I've been known to do that myself. I try to pull back everytime that I do.
You tend to "read between the lines" and then translate that into ideas that I don't believe and don't mean to put out there. That's why I take it personally. I almost always say what I mean. If I don't say it, I don't hint around it. I've decided not to put it out there.
Consider this. Everytime you call your practice "true yoga" you say that those who don't agree are fake yogis, and that we are insincere in our efforts. That's me "reading between the lines." Is the translation fair? Or do you feel like I twisted things a bit?
When you talk about a "sea of dillusion" you suggest that you see the world more clearly than the rest of us and that we don't know when we are being manipulated. But I actually think I see the world pretty clearly.
One of use is further along the path to bliss. Perhaps it is you. Perhaps it is me. Or maybe I'm even wrong about that and we are at equal places on our own paths. I'm quite sure we don't need to settle that here.
One thing yoga has taught me is that I have much left to learn. | |
| | |
| Hey Cyndi - What exactly is this ‘true’ yoga is that you speak of. I can’t get a fix on the specifics. Can you speak to the style, lineage, teachers, etc. Also would like to know who the Gurus are that you frequently mention. You certainly got me curious. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Sharon,
I'm really tired of this thread and I don't mean to brush you or Jambo off or anything. But, I'm pretty much getting over with this conversation of analyzing what yoga is. Yoga is so many things to so many people, even here in the west. I'm not going to sit here and list all my guru's for you guys to sit here and bash around and say, "Oh, he's not authentic" and "he did something bad to one of my friends", "he had sex with his students", I am not falling for that trap. So, I take the 5th on that. I will say this..."I had sex with one of my guru's" JUDGE ME NOW. It was the best sex I ever had...nothing in this world could touch it..period.
As for the other *true* yoga comment...It is very well known and established that here in the Western world, this is not even considered Yoga, it is mostly considered "exercise". Based on the teachings that I have received, that I do know for sure. However, I will say this, that is popular opinion amoung the Indian groups and guru's and doesn't necessarily mean that I agree 150% with it. I happen to have some really good yoga friends who I consider very authentic and sincere...Glenda aka Tourist, on this board is one of them who trained with BKS. This is not to say that my way is better and my teachings are better, I've just been exposed to some rather interesting people and guru's. The way most yoga is practiced here in the west is very invasive on the part of the teachers and their lack of intuitiveness for the student and most of the time - way off base when they try to be, non-supportive - meaning that the teachers don't have the proper training to deal with all the mental and physical situations that arise when one is on the path due to lack of experience, and sometimes just basically extremely silly. I don't mean to offend anyone, it is just my experience and it is the experience of some of the other senior practictioners of Yoga that I happen to have been trained with. The *real* teachers I've had would not put their student in that kind of predicament and/or leave them with their questions un-answered so that they may seek out onto a yoga forum on the internet to find their answers. Do you understand where I'm coming from with this??
As for the sea of delusion. That is an extremely interesting topic. We are ALL subjected to that every moment of the day. As for my capabilities of whether or not I can see this more clearly than you is probably very questionable since I too am on this journey just like everyone else and I never made that type of claim. However, I did say that when one is more in tuned with it and staying connected to the Divine source sure does make it easier to deal with. One thing is for certain, I can only make that judgement for myself and I can only help assist and guide those that are closest to me when I see them drowning, but never would I say what you said I said about me seeing it more clearly than you. I think you are trying to put words in my mouth and I don't think that you are playing fair. So perhaps maybe you are being delusioned after all, who knows, but only you know. I happen to know when I am being manipulated while in this world and there is nothing wrong with me knowing that and I'm not ashamed of myself for seeing that.
We all have much too learn. It is like a vast ocean. The goal is to become the ocean and not the wave.
Edited by Cyndi 2006-02-22 6:43 PM
| |
| | |
| Cyndi, Cyndi, Cyni...I'm shocked: "I had sex with one of my guru's" JUDGE ME NOW. It was the best sex I ever had...nothing in this world could touch it..period."
Looks like I need to take some guru lessons cause I don't want you missing out on the best possible....just doesn't seem fair. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Bruce - 2006-02-22 6:48 PM
Cyndi, Cyndi, Cyni...I'm shocked: "I had sex with one of my guru's" JUDGE ME NOW. It was the best sex I ever had...nothing in this world could touch it..period."
Looks like I need to take some guru lessons cause I don't want you missing out on the best possible....just doesn't seem fair.
I'm not gonna touch that one Bruce...besides you are my bhai, which means you and I cannot have this discussion, | |
| | |
| Rules schmulez, I got to sample your munchies so it would just be a natural transition...hmmm, maybe not. I'm a bhai? Really? I thought Beloved Brother Neel was your bhai? Are you cheating on him with me? Sounds like being a guru has better benefits--can I opt for that instead? | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Bruce I have many bhai's...of course you're my bhai. You don't think I just made that up did you?? Like, how many months if not a year have I been telling you BB. Now you want to change it to guru?? I don't think you are ready for that....I'm mean..I'm brutal, hard to handle, a pain in the A$$ to deal with, you sure you want that??? I'll give you a few more months to think it over and then we might talk about it again....but, I have a strange feeling there's some of that manipulation going on here...you sweet talker you, | |
| | |
| Ah Cyndi...of course I know I'm your bhai and honored to be so. Similarly of course there's manipulation going on 'cause if I recall, you once told me you enjoyed tormenting me so figured I'd best give you some ammo. OK, gotta go find a mailorder guru school. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I can't leave it like this. That guru I had sex with happens to be my husband. So, there you go. BB...it's really fun tormenting you, I always look forward to it!! | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| EEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeesh! You guys.......
Sharon - you and I will get along famously. I love words! I mean, who else would even bother to go and look it up to see if she (and I mean me..) had made a mistake in their interpretation Word geek
Spying is a very loaded word and I am glad it was changed. I am not going to look up the old post but it seems we weren't even sure why mish wanted the password in the first place. Maybe the kid forgot it. Wouldn't be the first time.... So yes, it would be good to hear the end of the story, for better or worse.
I have thought about starting a new thread about the various "types" we have on our board and why they are here. We did have an amusing link to someone who had categorized and caricatured a bunch of different online types but it would be fun to look again and see why we each are here and how we contribute. Every online group I have ever belonged to has their types. Me, I am just someone who likes to talk yoga and clearly has too much time on her hands. But we also need the technical folk who will explain anatomy to the cellular level, the philosophers who will quote Nietzsche and Dylan, historians who will quote the Gita, some goofy types who will laugh at anything, some irreverent types who will post photos of anything, and at least one pot stirrer who will keep things hopping. Does that person make life difficult for us? Oh yes! It is how we respond and what we learn from each encounter that matters. Isn't there something in YJ this month about how difficult people are our best teachers? Isn't there a story about monks practicing perfect calm and serenity on top of a mountain being completely freaked out the second their well-practiced but untested patience was disturbed? Like the bean story someone posted recently.... Just remember, these situations will just keep recurring until we learn the lesson they were sent to teach us. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hey Glenda,
Any idea of who that one *pot* stirrer might be, | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| I have heard it said that it takes one to know one
One thing I have to disagree with you on Cyndi is that somewhere you said that you felt most western yogis were not sincere in their practice. I actually think most are sincere, but many could use better guidance. I mean, we try to the very best of our abilities to practice and understand what we are doing, but it is true that we will often fall short of our goals. I do feel some are not sincere or maybe do not know how to or are not ready to do the real work of yoga. We see a lot of them pass through here - "I want to do yoga but...." or ask advice and we give it and they say "yes, but...." Geeta Iyengar says that she gets that all the time, too. The "yes, but..." syndrome. Being rather direct herself, she says "if you don't want ot learn, why do you ask?"
Gotta go teach some yoga! | |
| | |
| Ahhh...back to la-de-da on this thread. Enjoy the peace, serenity and bliss my fellow Yogis and Yoginis. You all deserve this restive as you continue to dig deeper into finding the truths of the 'true' Yoga and your eternal self. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | tourist - 2006-02-22 7:47 PM
I have heard it said that it takes one to know one
One thing I have to disagree with you on Cyndi is that somewhere you said that you felt most western yogis were not sincere in their practice. I actually think most are sincere, but many could use better guidance. I mean, we try to the very best of our abilities to practice and understand what we are doing, but it is true that we will often fall short of our goals.
Funny, Tourist
Yes, I did say something along those lines about sincerity and western yogis and their lack of it. Probably a better way to term that would be to say that because of the lack of experience on the teachers part would be the reason the student is not sincere and/or having difficulty in that department. Which is all the more reason that finding authentic teachers and guru's is extremely important. I know of some really good teachers here in the West, no doubts about that, but there are so many not-so good ones too, and I'm not speaking in terms of being judgmental, I'm speaking of the lack of training and experience these teachers have, your're right, they are doing the best they can with what they know. But as a Yoga aspirant, that is not enough and this is why the Indian guru's say, we are either going up or we are going down. This is creating some really negative karma and it's not good for the teachers to be dragging people along and not being able to give them *Complete* but maybe only one-quarter.
I know that personally for myself, I want a complete practice. Having the grace of the guru is a valuable tool when you start on a path. There are some dark places of the soul and can be pretty scary for someone who does not have a clear understanding of that. Before I learned Hatha yoga, I was in the Tibetan Buddhist Mind Training school. It has been a valuable tool for my practice. Not everyone has that opportunity, but if they had the proper training, I think we in America would outshine the world when it came to our practice. Why?? Because we as Americans do have one good quality about us. We are probably the most compassionate and giving people in the world today as a nation, forget about our President and our Government, I'm talking about the people. Look at what we have sacrificed for our freedom, and look at what we have done to create a free society so we can practice yoga and have a comfortable life to do it with. It's not a perfect science and it needs much tweeking, but we have an opportunity and that is what ALL of the Asian Yogi's know for sure about. I guess that would be the main reason most countries want to be like us, for that very reason. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | Bruce - 2006-02-22 6:48 PM
Cyndi, Cyndi, Cyni...I'm shocked: "I had sex with one of my guru's" JUDGE ME NOW. It was the best sex I ever had...nothing in this world could touch it..period."
Looks like I need to take some guru lessons cause I don't want you missing out on the best possible....just doesn't seem fair.
Brother Bruce, and Sister Cyndi, let's remember our brahmacharya. It's one thing
thing to pursue a tantric goal of liberation or to fulfill our duty as householders,
and quite another to....uhmmm.. . .... ... you're supposed to
exercise restraint in such matters, rather than wallowing in the opportunity to
become a guru and take advantage of the people who come for enlightenment!
<<<<< === bg === >>>>>>>
| |
| | |
| I've been lurking for a few days and decided to jump right into the fire and reply here as my first post.
To answer the original Q: I teach in noisy gyms. I do use music, mostly Gabrielle Roth & the Mirrors. I try to keep it low key. When I practice at home, I use any kind of music, but I do bounce sometimes and find that distracting. I have taken a few classes where the instructor didn't use music, and it made me uncomfortable, but I got used to it and started to like how it made me focus. Someday I imagine I'll teach & practice that way at home, but for now, I'm not ready and neither are the gym members as far as I can tell. I realize I'm teaching western yoga. I know I have not "arrived", but for now I imagine that I am a vehicle for people to move on into deeper practice. By that I mean, out of a noisy gym with 40 people in a class and into a quiter enviroment. I myself am chomping at the bit to try more and more and learn more and more. But, it took me a long time. For a long time, I was perfectly happy learning in a noisy gym.
Cyndi hit the nail on the head about teachers being sent out into the world too early and without support from a teacher-at least that is true for me. I DID exactly come here for advice b/c I hit a brick wall when I tried to get advice from my Yoga Fit teachers. No answer.  But I am here with sincereity to learn.
If you haven't figured it out, I am new to teaching. I am only beginning my journey but I know I will evolve in ways I can't even imagine. I have been practicing for 6 years, but only started training to teach in '04 and began teaching in late '05. I am only now honestly feeling like I am making a higher connection to yoga. However, it's American Yoga and I'm ok with that as I'm an American, living in America, and teaching Americans. It may change, and it may not. I am open to either senerio (sticking with western or striving for eastern.) For now I am grateful for what I have received so far and look forward to a lifetime of learning, and hopefully teaching.
Ok, be kind. This is my first post.
Kim
Edited by Kym 2006-02-22 10:07 PM
| |
| | |
| Kym -
I do use music, mostly Gabrielle Roth & the Mirrors.
I just downloaded a couple of their songs recently for my custom Yoga CD.
Welcome, by the way! | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hey Kym,
It's nice to meet you and I think its wonderful that you have the openness to see what's going on in our yoga society. Perhaps the Yoga Fit experience was suppose to be and was just a stepping stone to something greater. The fact that you keep plugging away definitely means that you are sincere and as long as you are, more and more doors will open for you to have a greater and more vast experience. When you shut yourself off with a closed mind then the doors close, you then get trapped and that is a very difficult place to be. I think as time goes by this is going to be the new trend. The good news is that there are people out there, like myself, that have been the pioneers and have paved the way so that people such as yourself can find the key to get out of such a trap, which is really an illusion, but if you've ever been there, you know what kind of scary and awful dark place that can be. It a terrible feeling to be left out in the cold when you thought you were on the right path to something so wonderful and beneficial for yourself in every way. It's also a terrible feeling to think that you are alone and no support and relief in sight. But that too is a delusion and such a tragedy. Especially in these difficult times we face.
Good luck with your endeavors. Take care,
Cyndi | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Bay Guy - 2006-02-22 9:35 PM
Brother Bruce, and Sister Cyndi, let's remember our brahmacharya. It's one thing
thing to pursue a tantric goal of liberation or to fulfill our duty as householders,
and quite another to....uhmmm.. . .... ... you're supposed to
exercise restraint in such matters, rather than wallowing in the opportunity to
become a guru and take advantage of the people who come for enlightenment!
BBG, we're just having some fun....trying to lighten or livening up this joint. Besides, I think it would be kinda hard to practice that kinda asana on my laptap...it might break or cause me to do something that would land me in a heap of trouble. I'm past my quota for the month in the trouble dept. and this week almost cost me dearly.......I can't wait till Sunday, Om Nama Shivia Shiva Shiva... | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Welcome Kym - you ARE a brave soul Ask anything. We're here for you | |
| | |
| tourist - 2006-02-22 7:47 PM
We see a lot of them pass through here - "I want to do yoga but...." or ask advice and we give it and they say "yes, but...." Geeta Iyengar says that she gets that all the time, too. The "yes, but..." syndrome. Being rather direct herself, she says "if you don't want ot learn, why do you ask?"
Gotta go teach some yoga!
"Yes, but" is one of the fun little games people like to play. Generally it's complemented by a couple of wonderful rounds of "I'm only trying to help you". There's also the lovely "Look how hard I'm trying"..... | |
| | |
| >Cyndi - The good news is that there are people out there, like myself, that have been the pioneers and have paved the way so that people such as yourself can find the key to get out of such a trap, which is really an illusion, but if you've ever been there, you know what kind of scary and awful dark place that can be.
Welcome Kym, I hope the above quote will provide you with some comfort that this forum will not bog you down with ego, delusions of grandeur, false claims, over-bearing opinions and useless chatter.
If you are interested, there was a short discussion on Yoga Fit Teacher on this site. Plug this URL into your browser to get there.
http://yoga.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=19545&start=1
| |
| | |
| dhanurasana,
i think that you make some good points, and i actually agree with them to a certain extent. but not absolutely.
certainly, there are times when i think some of the 'stuff' out there isn't 'really yoga'--but i don't feel that 'yoga needs to be defended' so much as we do have a responsibility to educate people as to what yoga is, how it works, and all of that--real truth in marketing.
one of the problems that i see with a friend of mine who owns a studio is that he does this flip-flopping on the marketing. he wants bodies in the studio so badly, and he's working from a place of fear. if someone comes in or calls and says "what kind of yoga do you offer?" he'll ask them a few key questions to find out what they're looking for, and then explain how the yoga that he teaches fits--even if it doesn't really.
so, one minute, he'll tell a person that the yoga that he teaches is grounded in spiritual teachings and that these teachings are taught in class, and then two minutes later, he'll tell another person that there's no spiritual component at all in the classes, that it's mostly a 'new form' of callestenics. And i wonder--dude, what are you offering?
like most yoga teachers, i have to market myself. well, i don't have to--as most of my clients now come by word-of-mouth, but nevertheless. . .. Anyway, i do some marketing. And that which i do is specific. I talk about how i start with asana--with focus on alignment--so that people can begin to access the body in new ways, and develop a new awareness of themselves through this. once the basics of asana alignment are gained, we begin to move into the more esoteric spaces in the teaching. Yet, with this explaination, i often explain that the classes include esoteric elements, but most people won't necessarily 'hear' them over the chatter of their body-minds until they get a handle on the asana part. I do readings at the end of each class, pranayama, chanting, prayer. I talk about the energy body in the movement (chakras, etc), and i talk about the history and philosophy behind postures that lead to other ideas related to the yamas/niyamas.
i think that music, incense, candles--these things are ambiance. they may or may not be helpful. certainly, they cna be distractions--and i'm very mindful of this. they're certainly not necessary to yoga. neither are props such as yoga mats, or 'yoga clothing.' i often practice yoga in whatever i'm wearing (which is commonly jeans). I'm amazed that there are people who pay $100 for a pair of 'yoga pants.' and they're cute pants, don't get me wrong. but dude, a hundred bucks?! wow. All of these things can be distractions.
There are times where i have to explain this to students. I get "my other teacher" or "when i went to X studio." I say, that sounds lovely, but it's not necessary to yoga. why not strive to be present right now, rather than distracted by music? and then we continue. And, that student either comes back, or doesn't. Sometimes, people want the ambiance. I'm ok with that. When they're ready to embrace yoga for yoga, they'll come back or find the right teacher for them. | |
| | |
| tourist:
ZB - I have always had visions of your keyboard smoking as you type I took drama in jr. high instead of typing. Who knew we would all be living on our keyboards by now back in 1968?
LOL! i had to take typing in 7th grade, on an old type writer. i wasn't so great at it. I didn't learn to type until i got to college, and started chatting. i'm pretty good now. i don't even look at the keyboard. it's funny, because my dad is a 'hunt and peck' typist, so i told him to start chatting. he gets online with my sister and I--he can hardly keep up. We tell him, keep practicing, you'll get as fast as us. he says listening to us type is amazing. LOL he's pretty sure that our keyboards are worn out--it's actually true. my "e" doesn't have any more ink on it. i just know it's the 'e.'
I absolutely understand why people teach in gyms (but why the heck are they so dirty??)
because the rooms are multi-purpose. the rooms are generally used not only for other fitness classes, but also for general use by gym members for floor work, ball work, or their own 'self styled' aerobics class. this means that people are wearing shoes. generally, these people wear these shoes to the gym--that means outside. Outside means dirt and stuff is carried into the room.
while the floors in the gyms are usually mopped once a day, i have asked the gyms to sweep just before yoga class. only one of the three actually do this. if i can get there early enough, i'll sweep it myself. but, this is generally why the rooms are dirty--a lot of uses and a lot of shoes.
And ZB, I think we know that you in particular will pretty much never choose the path of least resistance!
it's true. i like an effort. i feel like i'm earning something that way--and i'm challenged to be creative and learn about myself and see what i can handle. teaching is a learning experience for me too--and often a tough lesson. but i'll go anywhere i think there's something that i can offer and something that i need to learn. if the room isn't 'ideal' then that's ok. i can work with it to make it workable.
i figure that very rarely is everything perfect, and that that's ok. it's ok to be imperfect and to work with what you have. i tell students that all the time. you don't have to be flexible, right? you just have to show up and put yourself out there. You accept what you can't change, and you work with what you can. I can't necessarily change the gym, and certainly i could avoid working at them, but i have really cool, awesome clients at a lot of gyms--and quite frankly i don't want to leave them. I like working with them, and many of them choose the gym for a variety of reasons and don't go to studios because of the extra expense. maybe it's an 'unhealthy' attachment, and i'll look at that.
but i think it's ok to love my students too. | |
| | |
| cyndi:
i'm totally with you here: "So, these people that go around hugging for no reason, I try not to waste my time, I avoid it. I would rather hug trees, Now days, I don't have to hug, I can feel that person's vibration and you intuitively know. But, If I want a hug, I'll certainly go and do it!!"
i tend to avoid hugging in general. there is a lot of 'emotional vampire' stuff going on, and that's not healthy for anyone. But, there are times when i feel compelled to give a Hug (in the very real sense you described with your mom, etc), and times when i want to recieve a hug. In the second case, i'm picky about it. I usually turn to a family member (close). Empty hugs are the worst.
And i do hug trees. powerful beings, those.
i'm not sure what you mean by this: "I will say this is not Catholism and its not Sunday School Class."
from my experience of sunday school, i will say that sunday school barely scratches the surface of catholicism, much like yoga classes (in the US and in many other places) barely scratches the surface of yoga. They are alike, in that they are based in a central truth or idea--housed in different rituals, languages, and cosmologies. They are alike in that there are many ways to attain that highest goal (union with God/nondual state, whatever you want to call it), within the given 'house' of the practices (catholicism or yoga). But, ultimately it's up to the individual to go deeper, beyond the sunday school class, beyond the ritual, and into the deeper experience of self with/into Self.
my point was that ultimately, a person will seek out the deeper levels when they're ready. there's nothing to defend from these people--they'll find it. And, until they're ready, there's no way to 'defend' the truth because they can't see it, aren't ready for it yet.
i agree that there are those in the world who are 'defenders of faith.' in christianity, they're called apologists. i always found that interesting. i'm not surprised that other faith practices have similar individuals. largely, though, these are for 'in house' functions--largely for teachers to follow or to set up general structures of faith and practice. it is my understanding--from my experience within both buddhism and yoga (hinduism predominently, though some jainism), that individuals who hold the same functions in these traditions function similarly. it's predominently for those who are within, who are seeking deeper and who are teaching. Sunday school yoga classes are not necessarily subject in the same sense--because of the understanding that these are introductions.
there are, of course, yoga teachers who are 'within' and who are subject to these specific defenders of faith. and, as a yoga teacher, i take it very seriously to stick to the tradition as much as i possibly can, relying on the scriptures, texts, and interpretations from specific lineages, as to maintain a connection with that dharma and those 'dharma protectors.' but, i also don't expect my clients to embrace all of it, and if they have their own lesson or interpretation, i'm not going to get into an argument with them. When they want more, i'll point them in the direction that i've taken--and they can take that path on their own (find their own gurus, etc).
I would be interested in more of your thoughts on this matter, if you can refrain from personal attacks against specific faith practices and individuals. | |
| | |
| zoebird - 2006-02-23 9:57 AM
i'm totally with you here: "So, these people that go around hugging for no reason, I try not to waste my time, I avoid it. I would rather hug trees, Now days, I don't have to hug, I can feel that person's vibration and you intuitively know. But, If I want a hug, I'll certainly go and do it!!"
i tend to avoid hugging in general. there is a lot of 'emotional vampire' stuff going on, and that's not healthy for anyone. But, there are times when i feel compelled to give a Hug (in the very real sense you described with your mom, etc), and times when i want to recieve a hug. In the second case, i'm picky about it. I usually turn to a family member (close). Empty hugs are the worst.
Not a big fan of hugging either, particulary not with strangers. I hug family members, and a couple of really close friends I've known for years.
Edited by GreenJello 2006-02-23 10:26 AM
| |
| | |
| i finally finished the rest of the pages.
i will say that i find it very interesting when people feel attacked. like cyndi said, often in the last three pages, she isn't necessarily judging anyone--but rather making observations (and then generalized statements to express these observations). I feel that i'm doing the same thing, but often Cyndi may feel attacked by me. For example, i made a mental connection between the language of fundamental christians that i used to deal with frequently and the language that cyndi used as well. it wasn't a judgement of cyndi, but really an observation of language. i tried to extract it from the original context/poster as an example of this sort of observational quality. i certainly hope that cyndi didn't take it personally, as it wasn't meant to be a judgement.
i also was like tourist when i read the statement about our yoga practices not being sincere. i then was relieved to see the explaination about yoga teachers not being experienced, not being intuitive, not being trained enough to deal with certain things (physically or otherwise) as they arise. I certainly agree with this very general observation, as well as the specific caveats regarding how there are american teachers who are sincere, connected, intuitive, whatever. Whether or not Cyndi would put me in that category is irrelevant. I feel like i'm there, and i feel like many of us on this board who are teachers are this as well--or striving to be this.
we bring a lot of different perspectives and experiences to our yoga practice. i frequently tell people that you don't have to be hindu/buddhist to practice yoga effectively. yoga practices (meditation, asana, etc) are spiritual disciplines--they transcend all religions. All spiritual disciplines do--prayer, scriptural study and debate/discussion, rituals, etc. I think it's possible to be a very sincere yogin while practicing in the context of Islam. the same is true of any religion--IMO.
sometimes, i feel as if some individuals on the board do not believe this. i feel that their language comes off as 'holier than thou' because they do go to hindu places or know many hindus. it seems that anyone else's spiritual experiences from non-eastern traditions are completely considered meaningless or immature. and if those non-eastern traditions are upheld and practiced with the same sincerity and openness of heart as when that person moves in eastern circles as well, that that person's experiences of the eastern traditions are considered immature too.
i agree that it's possible to have a debate on many of the issues of yoga teaching in america today--and be 'harsh' or 'heated' but without personal attacks (or seeming personal attacks) or cruel intentions. This is what makes it possible for people to debate and still be friends. I have many people with whom i debate any number of scriptures (it's one of my favorite disciplines), and we are very close spiritual friends. I certainly know that it's possible. I think it's important and i value it highly.
but i also value being seen as an equal. in quakerism, there's a phrase that 'no one person has cornered the market on truth.' this leads to the idea that any individual, in any context, can have a good handle on the Truth, regardless of whether or not the language between religious contexts agrees. it's avery egalitarian concept. it's one that i find to be strikingly true in many ways.
when i was able to let go of heirarchy (of yoga, buddhism, catholicism, etc), and engage people as potential teachers, of other sources of truth and teachings--regardless of their age, religion, sex, location, etc--it really opened up a lot of my learning. I began to teach yoga differently too--realizing that my clients were bringing a lot to the table before they even knew one thing about yoga. They had their experiences of life, of their faith, of their spirits, that were already vibrantly informed. And they have a language for that. And they can share it.
So, that 9 yr old kid that i teach, he has so much to offer me in terms of truth, of dharma, and of his spirit experience. i have never given him a 'western hug'--but i say that as i guide him in asana to help him heal his back and teach him the sanskrit (his favorite part--he also loves mantra) and help him with his school problems through giving the example of the yamas/niyamas, he gives me the benefit of his spirit-experience and wisdom, his truth and dharma--and this is a great gift. he can be, in that moment, my guru.
and i value that. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Great stuff ZB. I think the fact is that anyone who is immersed in some tradtion of anything (some musical family who has been taught in a direct line from some famous musician, a herbalist who has been taught for 50 years by an ancient herbalist - I can't seem to work my usual knitting analogy in here...) will find a newcomer's attempts to seem a bit pathetic. And if the newcomer is trying to be self-taught or following a teacher who is not as accomplished, they will appear pretty laughable. BUT I think they would tend to either simply disregard the sad beginner and get on with their own work or, if they see promise in that individual, give their own teachings without disparaging the work the person has done in the past. I am liking this analogy of musicians actually. They tend to have an attitude of "its all good" and accept each other where they are and if they resonate for some reason, they just get in the groove and go with it. They ignore posers and hacks and simply give NO energy to them, but the bright young kid who knows nothing but is working his brains out trying to keep up and looks like he might one day be able to do it - they give him more and more energy in teaching and opportunties to perform and guide him to be their successor.
ZB and I used to be on a board that became more and more "what video should I use for a killer workout?" conversations. There was sadly little conversation about yoga there anymore. I stopped answering any questions about dvds, stopped giving advice for advanced asanas to people who clearly didn't have a clue (or responded to my advice with "yes but...") and eventually left. I can't put my energy there anymore. Yes, I know they will get some poor advice, yes, I know someone will maybe miss an opportunity to learn more by reading something earth shaking that I might have posted but this is the way it is. There will be some who stick with yoga, either being inspired from the dvd's or a gym yoga class and they will seek out deeper teaching in whatever way is appropriate for them. I don't disparage them - it is all yoga - but I don't have energy to talk to them so I have left the board. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hey Zoebird,
I didn't feel attacked by you, but I did feel when you said let's have a conversation further (about whatever it is you wanted to discuss further 4 posts ago??,) but without the personal attacks...that you wanted a *controlled* discussion and I'm not sure if I can live up to those expectations and that criteria...how will you ever understand me if I don't give it to you completely, therefore, I will have to decline any further discussion. Unless you can stay really open about it and we will have to do it by email because I am no longer going to use my PM feature on this forum, because I feel like I am no longer safe here and feel somewhat violated. Which BTW, my posts in the future will be very limited and I am considering making a slow exit off this forum due to my life is going to move into a different direction...possibly overseas, but we shall see. With laptops so freely available these days, that may not be an option, and I might just get stuck here forever, seeing how I would miss some of you guys
Zoebird, I'm not putting anyone in any category, unless I specifically tell you so. I don't know of any way to be. This is how all my guru's speak to their students...it's all general...we are ALL one, we come from the same maker so whatever is say includes us ALL!! We cannot seperate ourselves and say, "I don't do that, or I've never done that". I think that is a big lie and is pure denial. Somewhere on our path if we were to get downright dirty and honest withourselves, we would KNOW this truth about ourselves and not be so sensitive and possibly more understanding of one another. This includes being a little bit more understanding of someone like me who is extremely outspoken and brave enough to tell you the truth rather than a lie. We all have fallen under some kind of umbrella/category, per se, at some point of our path. My journey has been more about liberating myself OUT of these so-called organizations and yes, religious ones here in America too...I suppose that could be why so many feel attacked by me. Don't think for one minute that I don't sympathyze or haven't been there myself. If I hadn't been there, I would not have a right to talk about it as if I did, at least that is how I feel about that.
Anyway, Zoebird, we may have had the same 7th grade typing teacher...she was very old fashioned and I had her for homeroom...therefore, I have been with keyboards myself for a long time. Course, I'm not sure if mine was still alive when you were coming along...but who knows. She was a short lady, with short hair and black rimmed glasses. She walked around with a ruler and she didn't mind using it, | |
| | |
| cyndi:
the post four posts or whatever ago was written before the last, obviously, and when i'd finished, i couldn't edit it--you know the time frames. it's not so much that i want a 'controlled' conversation, but that at the time of writing, there was a lot of language and definitions on both ends about what were and were not attacks and what not.
like you, i'm greatly interested in mine (and others) process of liberation. i think that we have similarities in spiritual practice too--as in we both will go where ever we feel it is right for us to be at the time. That may mean this temple, or that buddhist center, or this lecture given by this or that teacher (from whatever tradition). In a way, it's a perspective that you're free of the religion itself, but also able to take the best of it. This is how i feel about all religion.
i take an approach that we are all one, and that there's also one central idea that all religions, and all spirit-experience-in-body-form points to (and is an aspect of). but, there is also differentiation--we are separate bodies, separate spirit experiences, separate religious contexts or whatever. It is both--it is inclusive and integrative. I think the problems come when we either only associate with one. In the first case, if we associate only with the idea that 'we're all one' then this can fall into the trap of 'it's all good' and i'm pretty certain that with constructive criticism of teachers being inexperienced, etc, it's a strong indication that 'it isn't all good.' But, an extreme 'we're all one' approach says that it is 'all good' when it isn't. And, on the flip side, if we say that the differentiation is most important (my religion/body/society/etc is better than all others), then we run into the problem of not seeing the core unity between these groups.
So, i think it's ok to have both, to see both. It's true, of course, that i am both--both inexperienced and errant as a teacher but also sincere and good at what i do. I'm not either one, specificly. I'm truly both--so i can fit into both categories. And to say that i don't is a lie either way. but, if someone's going to offer me constructive criticism--which i highly value--then it does need to be specific to me, and not coming from a point of generalization. you know?
i think my concern, as well, in the 'this isn't catholicism and it isn't catholic school' was a fear that i would be put down again, and so would something that i value. i find it hurtful when people tell me that to value this--as i value yoga, etc--is immature, wrong, bad, or a misinterpretation of something else. I admit that it can be these things (again, pointing to that both/and scenario), but it may also not be these things, or isn't these things categoricly.
you can be 'honest' with me, but sometimes i feel that your posts come across as mean-spirited. i see from the continuing discussion that this is often not your intention or desire. you feel that you're 'saying it like it is'--Dr Phil style i guess--and i understand that that may be exactly 'how it is' for you, but not necessarily 'how it is' for anyone else, me included. Of course, returning to both/and--it's how it is for both of us (both of our perspectives is both how it is, and how it isn't).
you know what, i don't remember my seventh grade typing teacher. i only remember typing class. that's strange. | |
| | |
| tourist:
i found the same perspective in rock climbing, and in quakerism. that concept of if the person is sincerely interested and shows up, then those who are experienced will definately help them out.
i'm actually like this with a lot of yoga teachers. there are a number of yoga teachers in our area who are self-taught from beginning to end (home practice, teahcing, etc). there are a number who take one hour or weekend workshops to become teachers. it's quite surprising. whenever i meet them (and it's frequent), i offer to help them in any way that i can. But, i dn't go out of my way for it. If the teacher wants to learn, then i'm there. Some have taken me up on the offer, some haven't. but, i think it's important to offer myself to them, as a resource, should they want it.
it is similar to the other board. you have to be mindful where you put your energies.
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Thank for clearing that up Zoebird. I think I'm going to sit back and let you take over this thread, I'm tired and I think I've said everything I need to say about this subject. I need to concentrate on this weekend's Mahashivaratri events. It's going to be really intense and I need to keep my wits about me.
For what its worth, I sincerely hope that the time I spent on this particular thread benefited someone...if only one person could relate to some of the things I said, then I am happy. If everyone else is bent out of shape, then I am truly sorry. I sincerely hope that whatever conflict arose from my comments, can be overcome and may you have a positive experience in all your future endeavors. Take care,
Sincerely,
Cyndi | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Here is a little something I found this morning. I want to share it with you because I felt it was extremely profound and related to this thread in a small subtle way of course.
No matter what is projected at you by another, only forgive yourself. Once done, your forgiveness will radiate out as joy and gratitude. No one can withstand the pure power of joy.
We can only be insulted to the degree that we are afraid of dying; we can only be harmed to the degree that we call harm upon others through our misunderstanding of who we are, why we are here and how we were derived. It is important to understand that you are first a Soul and capable of joy even in the face of the worst adversity; Jesus exampled this as he allowed the Romans to flagellate his body. The HH Dalai Lama and the Tibetans have certainly been a fine example of this as well.
No one can influence us unless we give them that authority.
| |
| | |
| thanks for sharing that Cyndi. i'm glad, too, that communication--in general--was clearer in the previous post to you.
i don't know if there's anything to take over, really. it's just a discussion, no? | |
| | |
| Well now that it seems it's ok to post again (I didn't want to get involved in whatever that was, still being fairly new and all)...
I use music to help my students focus. It takes away many distractions, I don't use "top 40" stuff - I use really nice and meditative mantras, chants or just music with no vocals. The students I teach are very beginner to intermediate, and while I call the poses in sanskrit, do some meditative work and always try to enstill the Yamas and the Niyamas in them while the class is going, they are really there to get away to relax and to do yoga, whatever it means to them. It is a break from daily living. If, by chance someday I have a studio of my own - by all means I will teach various different types of classes... all are still me and my teaching style.
Sometimes I light candles on cold nights to enstill a warmth in the room, and the lights dimmed ... and I use incense very lightly just to add a scent that could be a tad more favourable to other scents that could be left from a previous class.
That's just me, I want to try to bring in as much as I can of authentic asana yoga - but I also want to be able to have people come out and understand it in our western society.
| |
| | |
| >Shannon - Well now that it seems it's ok to post again
It's kind of pathetic that a person would need be wary about posting to a Yoga site, but there you have it.
I like the candles, incense, music and all the other trappings of 'Americanized' yoga but also practice Yoga with none of that. And I definitely like the friendliness of that type of Yoga.
So keep your studio and teaching welcoming and open.
| |
| | |
| Jambo - 2006-02-23 6:02 PM
>Shannon - Well now that it seems it's ok to post again
It's kind of pathetic that a person would need be wary about posting to a Yoga site, but there you have it.
It's not that I was wary - I just didn't want to get involved. Far too many times I have had what I type taken the wrong way. People need to step back and see that message boards are a very hard way to communicate - with lack of expression and tone things can easily be misconstrued.
Anyway, using different tools bring different experiences... sometimes using music and incense can be annoying... I use my intuition and the feel of the room and the students who show up to determine what gets done. | |
| | |
| >Shannon - It's not that I was wary
I'm so happy for that. So good to see other 'takes' on Yoga styles. | |
| | |
| Thanks for the links to the YogaFit debate. The stance that it sent teachers out too soon really resonated with me. After I did my 8 hours, I subbed for awhile, but quit. I felt so inadequate & it felt disrespectful to yoga. Several months went by and the inner voice kept bugging me to get back to it-I really do love yoga. I then signed up for Level 2 and felt a lot better after completing it. We worked on adjustments and chakras. I felt more prepared. I'm signed up for Level 3 in the spring. I do plan on finishing the program and getting Alliance certified. (And by the way, since I practiced for so many years before training, I did know what Namaste meant, but I do remember them teaching it, lol!)
It's interesting what some of the threads brought up-how some people hate Yogafit so much that they wouldn't hire or take a class from a YF person. Even though that is my technical training, I teach from the heart, strive to learn everything I can, and take care of my class. Not to toot my own horn, but they would be missing out by passing me by! I realize I have a lot more to learn, but I feel good enough now to teach and be respectful to yoga. I don't teach things I don't feel very comfortable/safe with at this point. Further down the road, I'll teach headstands and such, but not until I'm 100% comfortable with my training.
But, to tell the truth, I'd take classes first at someone's studio, get to know them and they me, before ever considering applying. By then, my training would not be an issue. The reason I say this? I asked a studio woman if I could possibly be on her sub list (I was there taking my daughter to a kid yoga class), she asked about my training, I told her YF and she looked horrified! Quite funny, really. She said they did NOT teach YF at their studio. I don't really teach YF, so right then and there I decided to never apply someplace until they knew me. I believe my love of yoga comes through when I practice.
I posted this here b/c the other YF threads were so old. I just wanted to say, I agree with both views-YF has been good for me, but it has its limitations. I plan to use the training to my benefit, but also to train elsewhere when I'm finished. I imagine I'll train all of my life. | |
| | |
| You seem right on track. Follow your heart and training and don't let Yoga zealots deflect you from your path. | |
| | |
| Thanks. | |
| | |
| Seems like it's the person not the training--witness Kym from a YogaFit background. There are several Bikram teachers on this board who took the good from the training as well and refuse to take every utterance as truth. Ah, folks like that give me hope...now if I can just get 'em to vote Republican... | |
| | |
Forum Administrator
| OK people - As you know, I don't post much, yet read most things and INTENTIONALLY let this beautiful community run its own path. I know things got a little testy recently. Let's all please take a step back, think about why we all come to this place on the Internet - especially when there are so many choices out there - and always make sure we value and RESPECT everyone's contributions. I have spoken to a number of you on this matter in the last couple of days and have shared my thoughts with each of you. Let's remember why we are here and move on together.
I hate having to use my admin buttons and have no intentions to freeze threads or ban people.....yet. I am confident none of you will make me regret that decision.
Namaste to all.
Piel | |
| | |
| Bruce - 2006-02-23 10:15 PM
now if I can just get 'em to vote Republican...
And carry guns? I'd like to see some pistol packing yogis! | |
| | |
| hahah--when I used to go to Bikram on my Harley, I'd ask 'em to lock my revolver up during class--they didn't like me much there...and the feeling was mutual. | |
| | |
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | Thanks for your contributions, Kym. I too am YogaFit trained (levels 1 & 2). It wasn't my first teacher training (I am Bikram certified as well but no longer teach it, mainly b/c I can't take that hot room anymore.) I really liked both of my YogaFit trainers- both had really good qualifications. I'm planning to take Level 3 also, either in the spring or summer.
I teach other forms of group exercise and at the moment am only teaching one regular yoga class, but I really love yoga and it's one of my favorite classes to teach. I think as long as we're all teaching from the heart, teaching what we know and always striving to learn more that we never have to make excuses for our teaching styles or backgrounds.
Welcome to yoga.com! | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | Hey Kym, I love Gabriel Roth & the Mirrors. I find their music hypnotic. If you like them, you should check out some of Anugama's music, especially Shamanic Dream I & II.
P.S. Kym, stay on path and follow your heart. You know your true intentions.
Just to answer a question here about my son/computer, well I obtained the password from him. I wanted to check out his myspace and a lot of children were making their profiles private. As it turned out, all the kids are good children. They're doing the basic 11-12 year old thing but nothing more. For those who might think this is spying, I'll accept that label. I'd like to think of myself as a concerned and involved parent. Being familiar with the law firsthand, I know how fast things could spiral out of control in the case of something happening to a child. I would like to know where my child is, who they are socializing with, and with whom they are speaking to on the internet. As I stated, they're all good kids.
I'm glad this thread stayed. It is interetsing to see all participate in a subject that can illicit such strong emotions. We are all adults and should be able and can behave in a manner that is complimentary to our beliefs. I respect everyone's opinion as I hope all will respect mine. Thanks for all your input (to all of you)
OK, off to class!!!!
Peace!!
Mishy
Edited by mishoga 2006-02-24 7:29 AM
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Mishoga,
Thanks for telling us about your son's Myspace. For what its worth, my 13 year old daughter is on myspace and so am I. There are some really cool yoga groups and ayurveda, etc, there - even Bikram. Guess what, the Bikram people are really cool and friendly. I like it because there are a great many diverse types of folks there. I also like the part because there is more freedom and if you act ugly to someone...you just sap them out of your life by using the Block feature or you can delete your friends if you don't like them anymore. I like a world that is SELF Governing. Then if they really want to be your friend, you can later accept them back. I monitor my daughters profile and activity all the time. I don't ask for her password though, I just sit with her while she's surfing around and she actually shows me how to manouver around in the joint. She also does all this funky stuff with my profile using all these secret codes..I'm like WTF?? How did you learn that and WOW!! She's a genius. As for the kids being on there....Frankly, if you talk to your kids about good behavior and the RULES (Yes, we do have so rules) then everything goes smooth and we don't have to worry about predators. In fact, I doubt a predator would last long around my daugther, they couldn't handle it. For kids, there's another great safe place for chatting called Neo Pets if anyone is interesting in knowing that. Then of course, I think most kids have AIM. I like that one better cause I get so tired of my land line phone being tied up, | |
| | |
| Ok - I have to ask - what is this MySpace thing? I used to be a techie - really! ;) | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Click on my little red myspace and take a looksee.. It's another world on the internet....a great big giant new world...for connecting and just doing whatever. You can set up pics of yourself and whatever else you like to do. You may not be able to view everything on my profile unless you set up an account and then I have to accept you as a friend to be able to view certain items and make comments to me. | |
| | |
| Bruce - 2006-02-23 10:40 PM
hahah--when I used to go to Bikram on my Harley, I'd ask 'em to lock my revolver up during class--they didn't like me much there...and the feeling was mutual.
I've been the Texas. I was pretty sure that anybody who wasn't armed was considered a tourist.
While I was traveling through Texas I was pulled over. At the time I was moving from Florida to Californa, so I had everything I owned in a rented truck plus my old car. Anyway, I was lost, and accidentally tried to cross the border into Mexico. Before letting me turn around, they asked to search the truck, which I had no problems with.
While they were searching the truck I was talking to one of the officers. He was being pretty friendly, so I explained that I was moving across the country, etc. Anyway he asks pretty casually if I owned a gun. I said no, and he looked over at me as says "You're traveling alone, with everything you own in a truck, right along the Mexican border, and you DON'T have a gun?" Absolutely floored him.
I actually have one fire arm in my name, but don't really own any. I've got no problem with guns, I just don't have much interest in them, and they're expensive and potentially dangerous. My father's got quite a collection, and sometimes we go shooting, though I like yoga better.
Anyway, I'm a big fan of guns don't kill people, people kill people. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| mish - thanks for the update. It is great that you were able to get the password from your sone and I presume you explained to him why you wanted to look around and how it was about keeping him safe etc. I am so glad my kids were that age back when the internet was relatively young - I would be pretty nervous nowadays. | |
| | |
| GreenJello -
Anyway, I'm a big fan of guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Once saw a bumper sticker that said, "Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun."
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Bruce - 2006-02-23 10:40 PM
hahah--when I used to go to Bikram on my Harley, I'd ask 'em to lock my revolver up during class--they didn't like me much there...and the feeling was mutual.
BB, I guess this means you and I are definitely twins!!! I'm a pistol packing yogi myself...although, I'd rather not ever have to use it...been there and had to do that once before..not pretty. That is why I have Yodha. The other day I was on the AT (Applachain Trail). Yodha loves everybody. He's the coolest Rottweiler and the most laid back dog ever. However, there were 2 guys that just didn't pass his doggie inspection. He went nuts when they went by and spoke to us - me and my daughter. The men were pretty friendly, but Yodha sensed something different. Yodha's babysitter told me later how he protects her like that and said.."Trust him, he knows, cause once we had a strange person come in here and it really set Yodha off". Interesting.
GJ, I travelled through Texas by myself once several years ago...without my pistol. I was okay at that time, but if I ever do it again...the pistol and Yodha will be with me. I was traveling through the Northern part of the state which was actually very mild, but times are changing. Here in my neck of the woods, I can't rely on police...it takes them an hour just to respond. There some crazy moonshine drinking fools up here...trust me, those pics that BB showed us not too long ago, I was half serious My neighbors get drunk and fight each other all the time. The judge threw it out of court when they scalped each other's head and were put in the hospital. The sheriff once told me once to get my A$$ in the house when they started that crap. I had to warn both of my neighbors not to get my house confused with each other's - when they aren't drunk, they are just as sweet and well mannered normal people as they can be. So, you can imagine. I'd be dead or I'd have to fight somebody really hard and mess up my hair and nails....forget that, | |
| | |
| Cyndi - 2006-02-24 10:35 AM
BB, I guess this means you and I are definitely twins!!! I'm a pistol packing yogi myself...although, I'd rather not ever have to use it...been there and had to do that once before..not pretty.
Sounds like an interesting story, care to share?
That is why I have Yodha. The other day I was on the AT (Applachain Trail). Yodha loves everybody. He's the coolest Rottweiler and the most laid back dog ever. However, there were 2 guys that just didn't pass his doggie inspection. He went nuts when they went by and spoke to us - me and my daughter. The men were pretty friendly, but Yodha sensed something different. Yodha's babysitter told me later how he protects her like that and said.."Trust him, he knows, cause once we had a strange person come in here and it really set Yodha off". Interesting.
Dogs are great like that. Never had a problem with one giving me a failed inspection, though I've had a lot of people give me odd looks from time to time. I like dogs better.
GJ, I travelled through Texas by myself once several years ago...without my pistol. I was okay at that time, but if I ever do it again...the pistol and Yodha will be with me. I was traveling through the Northern part of the state which was actually very mild, but times are changing.
I was going through the western part in the real desolate areas near the border. There's a state route or something that runs through there, I'm sure Bruce knows the one I'm thinking about. Anyway, the trooper might have been right, through frankly I didn't have much worth stealing.
There some crazy moonshine drinking fools up here...trust me, those pics that BB showed us not too long ago, I was half serious
Not sure what you're refering to.
My neighbors get drunk and fight each other all the time. The judge threw it out of court when they scalped each other's head and were put in the hospital. The sheriff once told me once to get my A$$ in the house when they started that crap. I had to warn both of my neighbors not to get my house confused with each other's - when they aren't drunk, they are just as sweet and well mannered normal people as they can be. So, you can imagine. I'd be dead or I'd have to fight somebody really hard and mess up my hair and nails....forget that,
Wow! Sounds almost as dangerous as some parts of Cincy I've lived in. For the most part I don't have any real issues. Most people would rather not mess with somebody who's 6'2" and 225 lbs. Much easier targets around I'm sure.
Being a woman in such a situation can be very difficult I'm sure. It really makes me sad when I read about all the women who are abused and can't do anything about it. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | GreenJello - 2006-02-24 11:08 AM
Sounds like an interesting story, care to share?
Being a woman in such a situation can be very difficult I'm sure. It really makes me sad when I read about all the women who are abused and can't do anything about it.
Well, instead of going through my greusome details....just put these 2 paragraphs together, use your imagination with me as the woman. Although, with a twist...I did do something about it! | |
| | |
| How odd. I'm from Texas and don't have a gun. Neither does anyone in my family, as far as I know. I'm also a democrat. Go figure. ;) I must be living a different reality. Thanks for all the welcomes. Seems like I have come in at an odd time. | |
| | |
| Cyndi - 2006-02-24 11:17 AM
GreenJello - 2006-02-24 11:08 AM
Sounds like an interesting story, care to share?
Being a woman in such a situation can be very difficult I'm sure. It really makes me sad when I read about all the women who are abused and can't do anything about it.
Well, instead of going through my greusome details....just put these 2 paragraphs together, use your imagination with me as the woman. Although, with a twist...I did do something about it!
Fair enough, I like your new avatar BTW. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Don't worry Kym, there is never an "odd" time. Besides, I came in on the tail end of a Hot Bikram Yoga Party.......I mean it was Hot Hot Hot in there. You know, I learned so much from that and have stayed ever since. Stick around, we have some really interesting brawls...I mean parties...I mean does any one know how to spell Swar rae, sp??
Thanks GJ, it seemed like an appropriate time for a new look and a new sig..
As for the gun thing?? Does that mean only Republicans can carry guns?? Well, I'm neither so not sure which category I would fit into....oh well.
Which reminds me of the situation in Nepal with all those maoists...There is a saying I see all the time, "If guns were outlawed, only outlaws would have guns". In my husband's country you are not allowed to have a gun...however, the maoists do and they kill people and they bully them for money...it's terrible. It's the reason I refuse to go there and why my in-laws have fled to Italy. Sometimes I wish I could pass out guns to every village so they could drive those maoists away!!! Then we can all go visit that beautiful country, the tourists would come back, the country could have prosperity again...and I could finally get to base camp,
Edited by Cyndi 2006-02-24 3:22 PM
| |
| | |
| >Kym - How odd. I'm from Texas and don't have a gun. Neither does anyone in my family, as far as I know. I'm also a democrat. Go figure. ;) I must be living a different reality. Thanks for all the welcomes. Seems like I have come in at an odd time.
I don't own a gun also. It looks like the NRA might start recruiting from this board. Keep the peace Kym and remember, when only Yogis have guns, then don't piss them off. Hopefully the world will be an 'armament free zone' through Yoga.
| |
| | |
| Cyndi - 2006-02-24 3:16 PM
Thanks GJ, it seemed like an appropriate time for a new look and a new sig..
I thought the same thing, so I changed mine too. This one works a lot better, the previous one had some trouble when it was compressed from it's original size. I liked the previous one a lot more when I saw it on your myspace account at original size. May I ask who is it a picture of?
Which reminds me of the situation in Nepal with all those maoists...There is a saying I see all the time, "If guns were outlawed, only outlaws would have guns". In my husband's country you are not allowed to have a gun...however, the maoists do and they kill people and they bully them for money...it's terrible.
I had a friend who was a history major. He claimed that the modern fire arm was one of the direct causes for the rise of democracy. Essentially guns are the great equalizer, they don't require massive amounts of training, muscle strength, or special talents. Woman can use them just as easily as men, and with just as much force. In some cases maybe a little better because women supposedly have better hand-eye co-ordination.
Supposedly the only nation that had democracy thoughout the middle-ages was switzerland. Why? It's not possible to use calvary in the very hilly country of the alps, so everybody was forced to get along. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Well GJ, if you go check out myspace, you will see that I named the woman in the picture...She is the Queen of Everest. So, with that little tid bit, I am going to make you play the guessing game. Who is she? What is her name?? Who is her husband?? Have fun, I'll give you a hint. Her husband's Birthday is this Sunday.
As for your interesting comments about the guns. I am so neutral when it comes to guns. I guess that is why I can own one again. After my incident about 16 years ago, I couldnt' touch or even look at a gun, much less shoot one. It took many years of practice inside and out, to get to the point where I could shoot and shoot straight again, I was very scared. Learning how to shoot again was really important to me. I love to Skeet shoot with a shotgun. It is my favorite sport where guns are concerned. So, I decided to learn over again and put that part behind me. I don't think I'll ever have to use my gun again on a human (BTW, I didn't kill anyone), but if I did, I am not afraid to and am probably more confident this time around. I mainly use my gun to shoot at the moon when howling dogs won't let me sleep at night. My neighbors used to have these dogs that only barked at 2 am when I was in a deep sleep. Then they would go on for hours and hours. If you shoot a gun around a dog, most dogs get scared and run away...or either they shut up! There is a fiesty one that tests me and keeps it up for a few minutes afterwards though,
| |
| | |
| A bit dated, but hopefully you'll get the idea:
In the 1990s, the United States experienced over 330000 deaths intentionally committed with firearms.[1-3] A considerable number of these firearm deaths were homicides occurring in large US cities.[4] Although these numbers argue for serious consideration of urban crime prevention programs, they may also contribute to the perception of intentional firearm death in the United States as a principally urban, principally criminal phenomenon.[5]
Over the same decade, firearm suicides occurred in greater numbers than firearm homicides, accounting for over half of all intentional firearm deaths in the United States.[3] A disproportionate number of these firearm suicides most likely occurred in rural areas.[6] Nevertheless, because rural health issues are often not on equal footing with those in urban areas,[7] and because suicide is not a crime,[8,9] attention to firearm suicide as a preventable public health problem was limited in the 1990s.[10]
Previous peer-reviewed studies have found basic differences between urban and rural counties in terms of firearm homicide victimization rates among teenagers and young adults[11,12] but have not placed these differences within the context of all intentional injury deaths, including firearm suicide. In this report we more fully assess the differences between urban and rural counties for all intentional injury deaths occurring during an 11-year period in the United States. By doing so, we intend to better discern the relative risk of intentional firearm death, compared with other mechanisms of intentional injury death, in urban versus rural communities.
| |
| | |
| Joe. Information without context is data, and can be argued anyway you wish. Frankly, this thread has settled down, let's not go there, huh?
Cyndi - 2006-02-24 9:46 PM
Well GJ, if you go check out myspace, you will see that I named the woman in the picture...She is the Queen of Everest. So, with that little tid bit, I am going to make you play the guessing game. Who is she? What is her name?? Who is her husband?? Have fun, I'll give you a hint. Her husband's Birthday is this Sunday.
That just makes it way to easy. Pavrati! What do I win?
Learning how to shoot again was really important to me. I love to Skeet shoot with a shotgun. It is my favorite sport where guns are concerned.
Yeah, me too. The only gun I own is a single barrel Browning 12 gage for skeet shooting. My father bought it a few years ago so that we could go shooting. I never got all that into it, but he was pretty into it for quite a while. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Jambo,
Those statistics don't surprise me. Especially since our world is so populated now and guns do have a way of getting into the wrong hands. This is where training is so important and being responsible for a powerful weapon. I have so many thoughts on this and there are so many aspects relating to the problem with guns. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | GreenJello - 2006-02-24 11:10 PM
That just makes it way to easy. Pavrati! What do I win?
I would like to say, What do you want to win...but that scares me. Then if I said, what do I have that you want....that's even worse.. So, I'll have to think about that GJ. Would you not be satisfied in the fact of knowing that you're a genius....definitely not Dumb!!
BTW, it's Parvarthi...but don't sweat it, those Hindu names get mighty confusing sometimes, especially with me. | |
| | |
| > GJ - Frankly, this thread has settled down, let's not go there, huh?
That was from American Journal of Public Health. Here’ the link the article: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/490999
I apologize if posting that upset anyone.
| |
| | |
| Cyndi- Good question isn't it? What do you have that I want? I really don't need much, so probably not a lot.
Jambo - 2006-02-25 11:26 AM
> GJ - Frankly, this thread has settled down, let's not go there, huh?
That was from American Journal of Public Health. Here’ the link the article: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/490999
I apologize if posting that upset anyone.
I don't think it's upsetting, but it definitely has the potential, doesn't it? It's like abortion, or gay rights, or politics, it's a hot button issue. Anyway, we're all trying to play nice, so I'm going to avoid saying anything more for the moment. This would be a good thing to discuss, maybe in a couple of days.
I'll be the first to admit that there are some serious issues with guns.
BTW, the link doesn't seem to work unless I register....
Edited by GreenJello 2006-02-25 11:50 AM
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Jambo,
NO upsets here. I think we all know the power of guns and the destruction they can cause. Anyway, rather than trying to take guns away from people, I think we need to have an understanding and reverence for them. I don't shoot birds BTW, I shoot clay pidgeons. I thought that would go without saying but just wanted to clarify that. Take care, and Have a nice weekend.
Cyndi | |
| | |
| You can't write about how great guns are. Then imply that pretty much every Texan pretty has a gun. Throw in the stereotype that you can't safely drive across Texas without gun. Then tell me, don't argue, play nice and don't argue.
Can you push a few more of my buttons please? Perhaps you could start saying terrible things about cats and the color red. Oh yeah and you could praise Ronald Reagan. That would really torture me.
I happen to be a native Texas, Democrat who has drive from Houston to New York...New York to Victoria, TX,... Victoria to Little Rock, Ark. through East Texas... Little Rock to Abilene... and Abilene to San Antonio, all with pretty much everything I own in the car or truck and never felt the need for a gun.
Perhaps I live in that alternate universe with Kym.
| |
| | |
| So Sharon's the Texan democrat -- I was wondering who it was. | |
| | |
| Kym - thanks for posting about Gabrielle Roth & the Mirrors!
I have given a few songs a listen and they are fabulous!
Now I have to figure out what albums to download!
Thanks again! | |
| | |
| >GJ - I don't think it's upsetting, but it definitely has the potential, doesn't it? It's like abortion, or gay rights, or politics, it's a hot button issue. Anyway, we're all trying to play nice, so I'm going to avoid saying anything more for the moment. This would be a good thing to discuss, maybe in a couple of days.
Bruce – Are you playing nice? You know how sensitive some people have gotten.
Thanks Sharon. | |
| | |
| Bruce - 2006-02-25 6:01 PM
So Sharon's the Texan democrat -- I was wondering who it was.
Actually Bruce, there's a vast underground of Democrats in Texas, quietly organizing behind the scenes and awaiting our opportunity to take over the state in a blaze of glory.
Sharon | |
| | |
| Sorry Sharon, we Republicans (and Kinky Fiedman supporters) have the guns just in case of such a coup attempt. Man, this thread has been ALL over the place. Some poor newbie is going to see this and think, "Oh boy! I'm gonna learn about different yoga styles." | |
| | |
| skatrenah - 2006-02-25 5:33 PM
You can't write about how great guns are. Then imply that pretty much every Texan pretty has a gun. Throw in the stereotype that you can't safely drive across Texas without gun. Then tell me, don't argue, play nice and don't argue.
Can you push a few more of my buttons please? Perhaps you could start saying terrible things about cats and the color red. Oh yeah and you could praise Ronald Reagan. That would really torture me.
Sorry, you're right.
I happen to be a native Texas, Democrat who has drive from Houston to New York...New York to Victoria, TX,... Victoria to Little Rock, Ark. through East Texas... Little Rock to Abilene... and Abilene to San Antonio, all with pretty much everything I own in the car or truck and never felt the need for a gun.
I didn't feel much a need for one either, which part of the reason it really stuck in my head. I really don't understand why the cop didn't believe me when I told him I didn't have a gun, he seemed really amazed by it. We went back and forth about this several times, and I'm not making it up. Maybe he was just trying to get me to admit to having a gun, so he could take me in, I don't know. Anyway, the impression I got was that it was natural for everybody in texas to have a gun.
Do you think it's more likely for Texans to own firearms?
I also have to point out that I was in the boonies of west texas, miles away from anything. Around here most people who live out in the rural areas have guns, and like to go hunting, that's just the way it is. I notice you're in the city, things are probably a lot different there.
Edited by GreenJello 2006-02-25 8:49 PM
| |
| | |
| GJ - you were smart to edit your last post.
Regarding where someone comes from, the problem is the same.
Article-------
Big Cities and Small Towns Bear Similar Risks of Gun Death
from Penn Public Health Study
Suicide Risk by Firearms Greater in Rural Areas
Americans in small towns are statistically as likely to die from gunfire as people in major cities, according to a new study from the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine - with one key distinction. "The difference is who does the shooting," says lead author Charles C. Branas, PhD, Assistant Professor of Epidemiology. Branas and colleagues found that when looking at all deaths by firearms, the risk of being murdered with a gun in large cities and the risk of committing suicide with a gun in rural areas were almost identical. In fact, the risk of gun suicide in rural areas was slightly higher than the risk of gun homicide in major cities.
Here's the context this time
http://philadelphia.about.com/od/healthcare/a/gun_death.htm
| |
| | |
| GreenJello - 2006-02-25 8:44 PM
I didn't feel much a need for one either, which part of the reason it really stuck in my head. I really don't understand why the cop didn't believe me when I told him I didn't have a gun, he seemed really amazed by it. We went back and forth about this several times, and I'm not making it up. Maybe he was just trying to get me to admit to having a gun, so he could take me in, I don't know. Anyway, the impression I got was that it was natural for everybody in texas to have a gun.
Do you think it's more likely for Texans to own firearms?
I have no doubt he said that to you. Lots of people in Texas like to believe their own myth. Particularly in west Texas where the myth is so darn appealing. I live in Houston and we're always trying to forget our myths.
I don't know the statistics, but my sense is that people in rural areas own guns because its a part of the culture of hunting and frontier life.
People in the city own guns either because they are criminals or they are under the usually misguided idea that they can use the gun to protect themselves from criminals.
I imagine there are people like that everywhere, not just in Texas.
But here there are always stories of kids playing with guns and shooting each other. A few years ago a man outside Houston shot and killed his daughter. She was sneaking in a bedroom window so he wouldn't know she went out that night.
A few years ago this man in San Antonio shot a 12-year-old boy for stealing chickens out of his yard.
All sad. But everyone always thinks they're smarter than the other guy. Or worse, some think that guy was right to shoot that boy. I think its all frontier myth. My opinion.
My cousin lives in a brick house with burgular bars and doors that you need to find the key to get outside. She also sleeps with a gun nearby, that she doesn't know how to use.
I'm constantly afraid that if she doesn't die in a fire, the guy who breaks into the house will wrestle the gun from her and shoot her.
Sharon
| |
| | |
| Re: Guns
I recommend watching bowling for columbine. it makes an interesting argument. essentially, canadians own as many or more guns per capita than the US, but have far less gun violence overall. the reason, according to the argument of the film, is the culture of fear perpetuated by the media, etc, that exists in the US. it's an interesting argument.
Re: YogaFit
I think that it's true that a good teacher is a good teacher--regardless of the training or the lack of training (there are some teachers who have never done any teacher training, yet are excellent teachers). I think it's true that a person can take Bikram or YogaFit or any other training and do well as teachers, because of where their intentions are.
But, i'm also cautious of a lot of trainings. To me, a training that says "no experience in yoga necessary" is problematic. And it's not just YF anymore. There are many studios in my area that offer teacher training--it's a huge money maker. You sign up 20 or so people, have them pay $2,000 each (that's $40,000), and do the program over three or four months--you can do three or four trainings a year--that's $120,000 or $160,000 per year just from that one thing alone! THat's a lot of money for a studio--it can support small classes and any number of things. So, they're starting to become far less choosy about who they train--and we're flooded with inexperienced teachers who want to make more money (i don't know where they get that idea) or who want to teach one class or two here or there and need some form of certification to do so (they want to teach in a gym setting or whatever).
I often councel people about yoga teacher trainings in this regard. Many people who pay for these trainings are people who want to teach on a minimal basis--one or two classes a week--and they dont' care about the money or whatever else. They want to teach because they love it. I recommend that these people--if they have a yoga practice of their own--get CPR certified and volunteer to teach at their church, community center, hospital or some other location. It allows them to do the heart work of yoga, to teach and share as their heart is content, and not put money into pockets for those who are simply striving to factory-train teachers (it is expensive).
I find, though, that those people who really want to be teachers spend a lot of time educating themselves--regardless of the training that they're taking. I find that most people take a factory-style training because they haven't really been educated about their options, and it says "200 hr training, YA registered" and so on. That's the only criteria--but people forget things like what is the studio's perspective? do i agree with this perspective? how do people in the general public feel about this training? how do i feel about this training? what do i want to learn in my training?
as an experienced teacher, a teacher trainer myself (i do apprenticeships), and a person who apprenticed with many teachers, i know the value of good education. I also highly value continuing education for myself and for other teachers. I spend a great deal of time considering what sorts of trainings i want to take next. I even talk to the trainers about it. 200-hr beginner level trainings are not for me. It's difficult for me to be in a classroom with a person who has never done downward dog before, who is now learning to teach the posture that they've never done. It's not because i don't like that teacher--it's just not what i need for my education.
Recently, i considered taking a 500-hr training with my teacher Dharma Mittra. I spoke to him about it, and we decided that while the teacher training would be beneficial to me, it's not what i needed. Instead, i travel to the studio every other month on a saturday and take a workshop with him. This way, i get his teachings--but he even admitted that the teacher training was going to cover all of the basics of yoga, because the only prerequisite is experience practcing yoga. He also recommended that i stick to advanced trainings, and we spoke at length about which directions my training should go from here.
i have many interests--ayurvedic studies, chakra/energy work, thai yoga massage (which admittedly is a different tradition, but one that i want to explore more fully), mayan healing and abdominal massage (a new area of curiousity for me), mantra yoga and the yoga of sound (i recently did a workshop with Bhagavan Das--in october--it was amazing)--just to name a few. Not to mention that i'm taking 'scripture' courses at the local hindu temple, a 'hookup' from one of my students.
So i have to look for myself--what do i need from a training? what do i want from a training? what will best serve me and my students?
I find that when a person--whether a new teacher, a future teacher, or an experienced teacher--begins to ask these questions, it begins to clarify what sorts of trainings are right for them far beyond "does it fit my schedule?" and "willl it give me enough hours to be YA registered?" and so on. What is is that I, as a teacher, want to learn, what to offer students, what to share with others? and how will this training help me learn about this area of yoga, offer it to my students, to share it with others?
One of my apprentices takes YF workshops. I have no problem with this. I teach my apprentices by teaching sequencing theory--i do not give them a sequence. I ask them to analyze sequences and create their own, and then 'defend' these sequences (why did you put this pose after that one? why are these first and those second? what area of the body/energy body are you working on?). We discuss them at length. She found this to be overwhelming sometimes, and she wanted something that she could 'rely on' when she had to sub (she owns a gym where i teach, and occassionally she has to sub for one of the yoga teachers). On the fly, she never had a memorized sequence, and this unnerved her when she was given 5 minutes notice before class that the teacher wasn't coming. So, she took YF so that she'd have a sequence.
Her observation is that the alignment was 'off' (from the iyengar allignment that i use/teach), and but that the sequence was basic and she was taught--do this, then this, and these are the modifications. this gave her a basis from which to begin her further exploration of sequencing theory--something that we still work on. She still takes YF workshops, because she likes the structure, combined with her apprenticeship--it fulfills a particular need for her.
But, i find that many teachers who are inexperienced before going into factory-styled TTs are often dangerous teachers. really, they don't have enough experience in their own bodies to teach functionally and safely. So, i'm concerned about that. But, it's not a 'per se' sort of thing with me.
i just prefer other sorts of trainings, and i prefer that people find the training that is truly right for them. i think that YF isn't enough for what most people want out of their training--and it's highly expensive to boot. | |
| | |
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | zoebird - 2006-02-26 9:11 AM
i just prefer other sorts of trainings, and i prefer that people find the training that is truly right for them. i think that YF isn't enough for what most people want out of their training--and it's highly expensive to boot.
It's really not that expensive compared to other 200 Hr. trainings. If you're able to register for the workshops in time to get the "early bird" discount (generally, one month in advance), the total cost is $2430. It's $2610 if you don't register early. Om Yoga's (which I had considered doing) 200 hour program is $3600. | |
| | |
| Jackie:
while i agree that the pricing of yoga teacher trainings runs a broad range, most teacher trainings that have interested me cost about $2000--less than yoga fit--and often don't require the travel or other expenses. though, in some cases, it's that plus travel expenses, which would put it above the $3000 mark. | |
| | |
| zoebird - 2006-02-26 9:11 AM
Re: Guns
I recommend watching bowling for columbine. it makes an interesting argument. essentially, canadians own as many or more guns per capita than the US, but have far less gun violence overall. the reason, according to the argument of the film, is the culture of fear perpetuated by the media, etc, that exists in the US. it's an interesting argument.
Really not a big fan of Micheal Moore. A lot of the stuff in that movie was a groose misrepresentation which bothers me. I also didn't care for the part where he uses the two victims of columbine to bully/abuse the employees/PR people of K-Mart. Very low class. That having been said, I went and saw it at the local art house theather. I snuck in two beers and had a lovely time watching it, great fun, lousey for facts.
Re: YogaFit
I often councel people about yoga teacher trainings in this regard. Many people who pay for these trainings are people who want to teach on a minimal basis--one or two classes a week--and they dont' care about the money or whatever else. They want to teach because they love it. I recommend that these people--if they have a yoga practice of their own--get CPR certified and volunteer to teach at their church, community center, hospital or some other location. It allows them to do the heart work of yoga, to teach and share as their heart is content, and not put money into pockets for those who are simply striving to factory-train teachers (it is expensive).
This is an interesting idea. I think about doing TT every once in a while, partially because I think it will give me a better understanding of things, and partially because I might want to do a class a week. That having been said I prefer to do ninja teaching, where I'm not pinned down to doing anything in partial.
The idea of the TT training being big money is interesting. I used to take them fairly seriously, and thought that they were more serious about their practices than the rest of us, but I'm starting to come out of that notion. What really indicates a dedicated yogi? Think I'll start another thread. | |
| | |
| GreenJello - 2006-02-26 11:14 PM
Really not a big fan of Micheal Moore. A lot of the stuff in that movie was a groose misrepresentation which bothers me. I also didn't care for the part where he uses the two victims of columbine to bully/abuse the employees/PR people of K-Mart. Very low class. That having been said, I went and saw it at the local art house theather. I snuck in two beers and had a lovely time watching it, great fun, lousey for facts.
regardless, i found the argument compelling. and that was my point--the argument. A lot of people equate gun ownership with gun violence. and yet, compared to our northern neighbors, who have as much or more gun ownership, we have far more gun violence. So, apparently the argument can be made that there isn't a correllation or causation of gun ownership and gun violence, and that was my point.
i guess i didn't really need the movie to make that point, i just thought that it was interesting.
This is an interesting idea. I think about doing TT every once in a while, partially because I think it will give me a better understanding of things, and partially because I might want to do a class a week. That having been said I prefer to do ninja teaching, where I'm not pinned down to doing anything in partial.
I think that doing a teacher training for personal edification and growth--regardless of whether or not you teach--can be very beneficial. but, choose the teacher-training wisely based on what you want to learn.
The idea of the TT training being big money is interesting. I used to take them fairly seriously, and thought that they were more serious about their practices than the rest of us, but I'm starting to come out of that notion. What really indicates a dedicated yogi? Think I'll start another thread.
well, studios are businesses, and businesses need to make money to stay afloat. And, yoga studios now have a lot of competition. It used to be rare to find a yoga studio. In fact, in copenhagen, dk, i know of only two yoga studios, and both only offer 8-10 classes per week. that's how it used to be in the US, from what i can tell. But today, yoga is offered in gyms, wellness centers, Ys, college campuses, community colleges, etc. People can pay $50/mo for a gym membership that gives them weights, cardio, other classes, plus Yoga (often with the same teachers who teach in studios) every day, and that same $50 wouldn't give them 5 classes at the yoga studio--so why pay so much for atmosphere? (sometimes, i'm inclined to agree).
So, the studios have to find ways to bring in money. Special workshops with noteable teachers, teacher trainings, and other sorts of 'specials' that they can run are all ways of bringing in students who may not normally come to the studio (and maybe will come back if they'll come through the door once for a special event), which in turn increases the amount of money brought in over time. Also, the workshop itself may bring in more money for the studio, just for use of the space. The rent does need to be paid.
some studios do take their teacher trainings seriously, and i think that most teachers and teachers-in-training take the process seriously and have good intentions. But, i also know that they'll accept anyone just so that they can get the money--because they want to stay afloat. So, it's both-and. | |
| | |
| zoebird - 2006-02-26 11:36 PM
regardless, i found the argument compelling. and that was my point--the argument. A lot of people equate gun ownership with gun violence. and yet, compared to our northern neighbors, who have as much or more gun ownership, we have far more gun violence. So, apparently the argument can be made that there isn't a correllation or causation of gun ownership and gun violence, and that was my point.
i guess i didn't really need the movie to make that point, i just thought that it was interesting.
I actually think there's some validity to the idea, but I kinda lost interest in it once I found out some of the other stuff that MM was involved in. Maybe I'm throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I do know that a lot of the stuff on TV is deeply emotionally manipulative, and a couple of the biggies are sex and fear. I also refuse to watch the local news for this reason. They always have a "Hard Hitting Impact Story" that's all about some sort of fear. (Being ripped off, attacked, etc)
I think that doing a teacher training for personal edification and growth--regardless of whether or not you teach--can be very beneficial. but, choose the teacher-training wisely based on what you want to learn.
Not a lot of choice here locally. I can go through the local studio, or get some training at the anusara studio across town.
some studios do take their teacher trainings seriously, and i think that most teachers and teachers-in-training take the process seriously and have good intentions. But, i also know that they'll accept anyone just so that they can get the money--because they want to stay afloat. So, it's both-and.
I think that's a good description, that both parties enter into the idea with the best of intentions, but the quality isn't as good as if they had higher standards. | |
| |
|
What is your Yoga style?