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| I've heard this before, and now I'm experiencing it myself. My tolerance for alcohol is really changing the deeper my yoga practice. Not only does it take fewer drinks to have an affect on me, but the affect is becoming more negative. I had a few beers at a beachside pub yesterday, came home, and went out like a light around 6 pm. I barely opened my eyes around 10 pm, only to go back to bed for the whole night. It was as if I had been poisoned.
I'm feeling like certain foods and alcohol are more toxic to my body now. | |
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| I hear you. I'm really getting to the point that I don't enjoy drinking. I've never been a big drinker, but it's gotten to the point that a 6 pack will sit in my fridge for weeks at a time. I just don't feel any urge to drink, nor do I feel any revulsion towards it.
As far as the effects being more pronounced, I haven't really noticed that much. It DOES effect me more than it used to, but that's more a tolerance thing. Since I don't drink I've got a much lower tolerance, which includes effects like headaches, and the urge to sleep after a beer or two.
BTW, are you sure you weren't sleep deprived? I've had similar episodes of sleeping during the weekend when I've been cutting my sleep cycles a bit short. So if I get like 5-6 hours a night during the week, I think I feel fine, but when the weekend comes I end up crashing pretty hard. | |
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| It's a combo of yoga and eating well that makes my tolerance level about 1 drink. Sometimes I don't even finish a class of wine or a beer but I can always finish one margarita.
I am so grateful. I think some adults drink to excess (whatever excess is for them) because they are bored with their lives (while others shop to the extreme, have affairs, gamble, smoke pot...). I wonder if they would feel bored practicing asanas?
Yoga is such a good way to re-route stuck energy.
Good topic! | |
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| *Fifi* - 2006-07-02 2:58 PM
I think some adults drink to excess (whatever excess is for them) because they are bored with their lives (while others shop to the extreme, have affairs, gamble, smoke pot...). I wonder if they would feel bored practicing asanas?
I think that's part of it. There's also peer pressure, addiction, etc. In my brother's case it's a good excuse to socialize and act like an idiot. A lot of societys have a day or week or some sort of socially acceptable period where people can act in any manner they please. All the social standards are relaxed for a bit. In america we seem to have Vegas and getting drunk. I don't think anybody really accepts the excuse "I was drunk" as being true, but it's often a socially acceptable excuse for a lot of behavior, rotten or otherwise.
Yoga is such a good way to re-route stuck energy.
I think this is a key point. Frankly, I used to get drunk to blow off steam. Yoga is a MUCH better way to deal with that need/urge. | |
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| August 15 will be five years since i've touched any form of alcohol, if you can enjoy it, please do, i don't. | |
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| Same here, I was never a heavy drinker, but even half a glass of wine/one beer makes me feel like crap the next morning.  | |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: New Jersey | I never connected it to yoga, but I also have been unable to drink very much for the past few years I guess. I could in college, but I guess that goes for alot of people I actually had quite a high tolerance for it, but since graduating, and not drinking as often, I feel the effects after only one glass of wine. Last week I was on vacation with some friends, and some of them drink beer like it's water. I guess they were drinking more because they were on vacation, but I would be wasted if I did that. That's another thing. I remember actually wanting to get 'wasted' in college, but now I can't even imagine why I would have wanted that. I just associate it with getting sick, and being hung over (man I hate that) I guess that has something to do with my yoga practice. Samantha | |
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| I had read that yoga will make booze seem pointless and I thought "yeah right", but it happened to me. I used to always get through a bottle of wine at the weekend, but a few months ago I just stopped. They began to accumulate in the fridge as my wife kept buying them, one a week as per normal!
All I have now is the occasional beer due to the unfeasably hot weather the UK is having over the recent days. We are more accustomed to rain for Wimbledon...
JK | |
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| It's all about moderation. I had a regular date with a Thursday night yoga class. Yoga and cocktails. I know it sounds horrible but we had a GREAT time!  | |
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| Rhachel - 2006-07-05 6:20 PM
It's all about moderation. I had a regular date with a Thursday night yoga class. Yoga and cocktails. I know it sounds horrible but we had a GREAT time!
i must say that i feel a tinge of jealousy towards your ability to enjoy a dabbly wabbly here and there
:>} | |
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| The first time we did it, I left my yoga matt at the bar. I went back the next day and the bartender (who I'm good friends with now) told me in the 10 years she had been working in bars, that was the weirdest thing anyone has ever left behind! 
Edited by Rhachel 2006-07-06 5:48 PM
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| Oh my
Myself I hardly drink, however when I drink it is only for one goal. So two fisted I go..
Maybe if i m lucky twice a year. Daughter has to be away and also my wife (AA member) plus no work the next day. | |
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Location: London, England | Hi Rhachel,
I read a article recently about some of the weird things that people leave on buses-one was a jar of bull's sperm, which i think outdoes your yoga mat! 
Nick | |
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| I spoke to a Bikram yoga instructor who said that during her training they would be invited up to Bikram's house where they would have discussions late into the night. Not a drop of alcohol was served. At first it was incomprehensible, but later she said she really liked it. She was a college binge drinker before her training. Now it's moderate social drinking only.
Is this due to increased bodily awareness?
Does yoga release tensions better than alcohol?
Do we now have three great classes of non drinkers, Moslems, Mormons, and Yogis??
Edited by MrD 2006-07-10 7:01 PM
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Expert Yogi
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| There is a definite tendency to drink less as we practice more, but not all yogis are 100% non-drinkers. Most of those I know who do drink are very moderate, to my knowledge, at least  | |
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| For what it's worth, I quit drinking before I started yoga. I was trying to replace some bad habits with healthy ones. | |
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| I mostly quit drinking (for various personal reasons) before I started doing yoga. But since doing yoga, I barely ever want to drink anymore, and when I do want to, the desire passes before I get around to acting on it.
Heck, I get a better buzz from practice than from booze | |
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| We've discussed similar things like this before and at the risk of being redundant, i find moderate amounts of beer (Belgian and Guinness) a fine complement to my yoga practice from a physical, mental, emotional, and social standpoint. After a strong hot vinyasa, a Chimay goes down great. | |
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| Bruce - 2006-07-11 12:22 PM
We've discussed similar things like this before and at the risk of being redundant, i find moderate amounts of beer (Belgian and Guinness) a fine complement to my yoga practice from a physical, mental, emotional, and social standpoint. After a strong hot vinyasa, a Chimay goes down great.
Chimay white, blue, or red?
Have you ever had Orval or any of the other Trappist brews?
When I used to drink, Belgian Beer, which is the finest beer on the earth, was my absolute favorite.
Have you ever had any of the Lambics?
I still have a five gallon carboy of Lambic brew in the basement, i just don't know what i'll ever do with it.
I still use beer when i cook; for marinade. | |
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| Yeah, it's that moderate thing that gets me. Or I mean used to, for me its better to just abstain. | |
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| What a relief to hear it isn't just me, I have really gone off booze since I got further into my practice. Only really because I feel so happy and fulfilled without it, it seems a shame to deaden all those feelings with booze.
The problem I have is that nobody else seems happy about it, maybe it is just a UK thing, but I seem to be a disappointment to the people I care about because I no longer want to drink as much. I could understand if I was telling them not to drink, but I would never impose my views on anyone else. And I haven't stopped altogether, just slowed down a bit. Maybe I am unusual in my experience, but it seems in the UK if you don't want to drink yourself into oblivion as often as you can you are some sort of freak. It makes me feel very sad.
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| I've been through a weird time with that. I also started to almost not drink at all anymore because of depening my practice, and recently have gone totally mad and drunk loads, partied loads, eaten loads of crap.
I don't know why.
My practice has been difficult due to injury and losing my teacher, so maybe that's got something to do with it.
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| they'll get over it. it's hard for people when someone changes, and their own self judgement (which is then projected onto you) comes into play. when they get used to your choice, it won't be a problem.
for my own part, i don't drink and never have--it's simply too medicinal feeling and tasting for me to enjoy. but, i do not think that drinking is inherently bad. having alcoholic beverages as beverages is healthy (they do have nutritional value). when they become dependencies, then alcohol becomes a problem. | |
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| The same was true when I was in my teens. Fortunately none of my friends were that kind of idiot but there were some on the fringes. Same again when I worked for a big oil and gas company (work hard, play hard). Instead of arguing I used to order a short and mixer for the first round, then just keep saying all I needed was a mixer this time. They never did cotton on that I only ever drank 2-3 units and the rest was soda/bitter lemon/lemonade/tonic/whatever
Fee
wohayo - 2006-07-18 1:19 PM
What a relief to hear it isn't just me, I have really gone off booze since I got further into my practice. Only really because I feel so happy and fulfilled without it, it seems a shame to deaden all those feelings with booze.
The problem I have is that nobody else seems happy about it, maybe it is just a UK thing, but I seem to be a disappointment to the people I care about because I no longer want to drink as much. I could understand if I was telling them not to drink, but I would never impose my views on anyone else. And I haven't stopped altogether, just slowed down a bit. Maybe I am unusual in my experience, but it seems in the UK if you don't want to drink yourself into oblivion as often as you can you are some sort of freak. It makes me feel very sad.
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| Thanks guys, it's nice to hear, and not feel quite so stranded! | |
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Location: London, England | Hi Bruce,
It's 37 degrees here today-I'll finish my last class at 9:30 tonight, and that bottle of beer is going to trickle like nectar down my parched throat.
Nick | |
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| 37 degrees C is in the 90's F, right? That is hot for London. It was 117F (that's a big F!) yesterday afternoon. I felt like swimming in a cold beer.
(PS - it was like 400 degrees big F in my car yesterday. It hurt to touch the ignition)
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| They reckon today is going to be even hotter in Britain with temperatures hitting 35 deg C (95 deg F) or more. It's expected to be the hottest July day in 90 years. Tomorrow is expected to see humidity rise with it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5193486.stm
And I've got a 3 hour yoga workshop on Saturday *faints at the thought*.
Now, mr air-con company, where's your fisking quote!!!!
Fee
Edited by Orbilia 2006-07-19 5:59 AM
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| A yoga mat left at a bar. That is hilarious!
When I was younger, I wanted to wear a nun's habit and go out drinking just to see the reaction. Yea, a little warped. | |
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| I complete know what you're saying, and am glad that someone else is confirming my suspicion that yoga is lowering my tolerance. Now I am drunk after two drinks, and if I go for 4 I don't want to move the next day.
I have noticed similar affects with foods that have a natural intolerance for such as dairy products and sweets. I had icecream last night, and this morning I feel all logey and a little nautious.
I wonder if this is because are bodies are more sensitive, or because we are learning to pay closer attention to what our bodies are telling us? According to Mr. Iyengar (in some wonderful book or other that he has written), yoga should make our bodies stronger and more able to deal with what we throw at it, so I suspect that we are just more aware of the negative affects our actions have. | |
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| I am experiencing the same thing as an American 20-something. It's like people think I am too young to quit drinking and don't want to go out with me if I won't drink (or perhaps they just can't understand why I would want to go out). My solution is to just have a small amount of alcohol (which I enjoy anyway) - like maybe two drinks over the course of a night. I find that people barely notice I'm not drinking as much if I nurse the drinks I have. | |
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| Great topic.
Whatever it is for you it is. On a broader scope, yoga is an awareness practice. For many of us it's a case that our reaction hasn't so much changed but our awareness of what alcohol is doing to us is heightened.
There is a second component. That is the issue of balance. A body in balance tends to crave things that move it toward balance. A body out of balance tends to crave things that move it out of balance.
So if you are practicing yoga (not just asana) and your body has come into a better balance, then it would likely crave things keeping it in balance. Alcohol is not one of those things. Your body simply doesn't need it anymore, much prefering the things that have brought you into this balance you now enjoy.
SiriusSpirit - 2006-07-02 6:09 AM
I've heard this before, and now I'm experiencing it myself. My tolerance for alcohol is really changing the deeper my yoga practice. Not only does it take fewer drinks to have an affect on me, but the affect is becoming more negative. I had a few beers at a beachside pub yesterday, came home, and went out like a light around 6 pm. I barely opened my eyes around 10 pm, only to go back to bed for the whole night. It was as if I had been poisoned.
I'm feeling like certain foods and alcohol are more toxic to my body now. | |
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| purnayoga - 2006-08-03 1:34 AM
So if you are practicing yoga (not just asana) and your body has come into a better balance, then it would likely crave things keeping it in balance. Alcohol is not one of those things. Your body simply doesn't need it anymore, much prefering the things that have brought you into this balance you now enjoy.
This is a good explaination. Instead of moving AWAY from alcohol, or trying to avoid it, which is a negative state, and hard to maintain, yoga gives you a balance you want to more TOWARD, and alcohol interfers with this.
All that being said, I still have a beer now and then, I just stop a LOT quicker. | |
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| If the "near beers" or non-alcohol beers were as good as the real stuff, I would love it. I wouldn't miss the alcohol a bit. But sometimes a beer is just the best. | |
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| Well the yogic path is anything but straight, it's curvy and bendy!
Sometimes you can come off it and go for a little walk, or you can have a picnic by the side of the road. We are human. It's pretty normal to go and have a few drinks or be bad bad bad once in a while if it just happens. The important part is realising that its not great and to come back to the path.
Being told off by fellow yogis just makes it worse I think
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| DownwardDog - 2006-08-03 1:25 AM
Being told off by fellow yogis just makes it worse I think
My own fellow yogis are far too wise to do something as silly as that, thank goodness. | |
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| DownwardDog - 2006-08-04 4:25 AM
Sometimes you can come off it and go for a little walk, or you can have a picnic by the side of the road. We are human. It's pretty normal to go and have a few drinks or be bad bad bad once in a while if it just happens. The important part is realising that its not great and to come back to the path.
I really don't consider have a few to be off the path, far from it. The people who are completely and utterly NO BEER, are just as much of the drinking game as the people who are drinking constantly. This is part of the problem with AA, though it's definitely better than drinking, it's still a game of sorts.
The idea is NON-attachment, not NO attachment, there's a subtle difference between the two.
If you really want a good description of the way Alcoholic is played, read Eric Berne's book "Games people play"
EDIT: Actually here's a better explaination:
Two Monks and the River
It was early morning, and the two monks set out on their last day's journey back to their monastery.
At mid-morning they came upon a shallow river, and on the bank there stood a beautiful young maiden in a lovely silk kimono.
"May I help you cross?" asked the first Monk. "That way your garment won't get soiled."
"Why, yes, that would be most kind of you," replied the maiden, bowing politely.
So the first Monk hoisted the maiden on his back and carried her across the river. Once across, they bowed and went their separate ways.
A few minutes later, after the maiden was out of earshot, the second Monk said to the first Monk, "I can't believe you did that! I just can't believe it! We take vows of chastity, and you touched a woman. You even asked her! I know that touching a woman doesn't break our vow, but what's the Abbot to think? This is awful."
Several hours passed and the second Monk erupted again. "How could you do that? She didn't even ask. You offered! What are we going to tell the Abbot when we get home? He's going to ask how our journey was, and we can't lie. What are we going to say?"
By late afternoon the two were nearing their monastery, and the second Monk, now filled with anxiety, said, "I can't believe you did that! You touched a woman. You even carried her on your back. We must think of something to tell the Abbot. He's going to be so angry we'll be working in the onion garden for the rest of our lives."
The first Monk stopped, looked at the second Monk and said, " Listen, it's true that I carried that maiden across the river. But I left her at the river bank hours ago. You've been carrying her all day."
Edited by GreenJello 2006-08-04 12:20 PM
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| GreenJello - 2006-08-04 12:16 PM
I really don't consider have a few to be off the path, far from it. The people who are completely and utterly NO BEER, are just as much of the drinking game as the people who are drinking constantly. This is part of the problem with AA, though it's definitely better than drinking, it's still a game of sorts.
The idea is NON-attachment, not NO attachment, there's a subtle difference between the two.
If you really want a good description of the way Alcoholic is played, read Eric Berne's book "Games people play"
EDIT: Actually here's a better explaination:
Two Monks and the River
It was early morning, and the two monks set out on their last day's journey back to their monastery.
At mid-morning they came upon a shallow river, and on the bank there stood a beautiful young maiden in a lovely silk kimono.
"May I help you cross?" asked the first Monk. "That way your garment won't get soiled."
"Why, yes, that would be most kind of you," replied the maiden, bowing politely.
So the first Monk hoisted the maiden on his back and carried her across the river. Once across, they bowed and went their separate ways.
A few minutes later, after the maiden was out of earshot, the second Monk said to the first Monk, "I can't believe you did that! I just can't believe it! We take vows of chastity, and you touched a woman. You even asked her! I know that touching a woman doesn't break our vow, but what's the Abbot to think? This is awful."
Several hours passed and the second Monk erupted again. "How could you do that? She didn't even ask. You offered! What are we going to tell the Abbot when we get home? He's going to ask how our journey was, and we can't lie. What are we going to say?"
By late afternoon the two were nearing their monastery, and the second Monk, now filled with anxiety, said, "I can't believe you did that! You touched a woman. You even carried her on your back. We must think of something to tell the Abbot. He's going to be so angry we'll be working in the onion garden for the rest of our lives."
The first Monk stopped, looked at the second Monk and said, " Listen, it's true that I carried that maiden across the river. But I left her at the river bank hours ago. You've been carrying her all day."
As a man who has stopped drinking permanently, I'm a bit raw on this.
For some folks this non attachment vs. no attachment may work, but not all.
One size does not fit all.
Choosing not to consume alcohol of any sort can be just that, a choice, no matter what the reasons behind it, or the support system that sustains it, once the choice is made.
I'm not a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, AA, but part of the Accelerated Rehabilitative Disposition program that I was eligible for after I was arrested for Drunk Driving was participation in the AA program for like six months, and losing my license for a year.
The lessons that are taught in AA are good ones, if you are prepared to listen.
Some people, like me, should simply choose to not consume alcohol. Some powers are greater than my own control and accepting the truth, no matter how embarresing to my ego it is, was the key to improving my situation for a lifetime, and my past participation in AA was a big part of that recognition.
Some people need AA or some other support system in their lives, that's why they are there.
Some people need other people.
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| SCThornley - 2006-08-04 1:22 PM
As a man who has stopped drinking permanently, I'm a bit raw on this.
Then let's stop talking about it.
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| The value of self reflection that leads to permanent positive change is worth talking about.
I'm just raw on Alcoholism being considered a game that people play.
With some folks it's not a game, but a matter of life and death.
Addiction is not simply a game that people play. Misconception and a lack of honest self analysis leads to the belief that when confronted with the object of ones addiction you have no choice. You always have a choice, that doesn't mean you're not an addict.
Many addicts choose to no longer associate with the object of their addictions once they recognize that the addiction is a destructive force in their lives. I consider this a positive improvement that flows from the spring of honest self analysis.
Some never get to this point.
As far as yoga and booze, it comes down to a personal choice, but then isn't everything?
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| SCThornley - 2006-08-04 8:05 PM
The value of self reflection that leads to permanent positive change is worth talking about.
I'm just raw on Alcoholism being considered a game that people play.
With some folks it's not a game, but a matter of life and death.
Who ever said that games were NOT a matter of life and death?
Often times they form substantian pieces of our character, and lead us to do self-destructive things over and over again. In some cases these self-destructive acts can include things that are very much life and death, or they can be less self-destructive, like somebody who likes to talk about people behind their back.
In a word, it's usually Ego, or that little self that keeps us cut off from the rest of the world.
Addiction is not simply a game that people play. Misconception and a lack of honest self analysis leads to the belief that when confronted with the object of ones addiction you have no choice. You always have a choice, that doesn't mean you're not an addict.
Many addicts choose to no longer associate with the object of their addictions once they recognize that the addiction is a destructive force in their lives. I consider this a positive improvement that flows from the spring of honest self analysis.
Right, but that's not really the game Alcoholic.
My grandfather was an alcoholic for much of his life, but he didn't really play the game Alcoholic because at one point he gave it up, and it stopped defining who he was, or how he interacted with people.
A lot of people who have stopped drinking are still playing Alcoholic because they have to stop EVERYBODY from drinking. They think that alcohol is the root of all evil, and must be stopped. They have a very strong need to tell everybody about their drinking problem, and how it made them a bad person. In short, they're still carrying the woman that the other monk dropped back at the other side of the river. | |
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| GJ, you bring up interesting points that people that don't drink *might* be just as consumed with alcohol as an alcoholic. I think that is an exaggeration of what you probably meant, but I think I know what you mean. Like it might be disconcerting that a person cannot stop at one serving of something, whether it be alcohol or ice cream or coffee. Clearly, alcohol, sugar and caffience can have a very strong effect on the body; plus, all 3 substances have addictive qualities. I am no expert, but the more years I have under my belt, the less medicated either with alcohol, sugar or caffiene I want to be. When I have a glass of wine I feel like I'm outside of myself.
But, alcohol, sugar and caffiene can all be enjoyable, too. I think everyone has their own internal clock that alerts them to when it's time to quit.
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| There are a couple of furthered issues now in this thread.
The first is that it's gotten a bit off thread. This isn't an issue about addiction or AA. Not that those aren't valid. They are. But they themselves are not the issue.
I'd like to try and clarify (first I do not drink, I have chosen that, never had a drinking problem, and do not care if you drink).
First we must "weigh the duality". Non drinkers must ask, is this dogma? Is this really in my best interest? Is there something else going on keeping me from doing this or is it truly in my greater good. AND, AND, AND the drinker must explore the same duality...Is there something else going on? Am I doing this consciously? Is this in the best interest of my well being or is there dogma here?
moving along >>>>
Pertinent question: Is your yoga practice a wellness pursuit? If so, have you placed boundaries on the growth or flourishing of your wellness or does it continually expand and blossom? Remember that food is meant to nourish the body and energize it and we've got some real problems with our food supply. So care must be employed.
Some things are not in the best interest of the body. And we can't just go by, "I like beer so it's okay". Otherwise we use that as a justification for "I like cigars..." or I like unprotected sex" or "I like abusing co-workers".
if you've weighed the ramification/consequences of alcohol, (and those do not infringe on the rights of others), and then decided consciously to drink, then who's to say? It's mindful destruction (that which does not support/nourish, destroys) of your own vessel. Your own container of spirit. Why bother with Asana (to heal the body) if you're just going to hit happy hour for margaritas after savasana?
The monk story was superb. But the issue isn't about a Monk who carries a maiden three times a week at Murphy's, now is it? You just have to decide the nature of the vessel your higher self will inhabit. It's **** tough to pursue samadhi as a garbage can. It's not impossible but the yamas, niyamas, and kleshas are there to ready the garbage can for enlightenment (if I may so embelish).
Beer is NOT God's way of telling us that He loves us and wants us to be happy
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| Purna!
Benjamin Franklin is turning in his grave!
But overall, I'd have to agree with the very thrust of what you're saying.
I'd consider Yoga as a path to growth and ultimately freedom, not simply a wellness practice, but that is simply my opinion.
Green Jello,
I see the points of what you are saying and agree that when one has their identity wrapped up in an external object, such as alcohol, it is especially stifling to the development of intelligence and the ultimate liberation of the the self. My great grandfather, on my father's father's side, was such a drinker that those who remember him still can't say much that is nice about him--of course he was quite a lover as well, he and his wife had 13 children.
As my yoga becomes more piercing to the foundation of my true identity I have found that my interest in sugar and caffeine is less and less. My interest in any use of alcohol waned five years ago August 15. Thank GOD. | |
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| Purna,
As in all conversations, twists and turns are taken. So, this, indeed, can be a thread about addiction and AA! Everyone's input counts, not just yours.
I am interested in reading people's stories of addiction, struggle, enlightenment and choice.
Thanks, fifi
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| *Fifi* - 2006-08-05 12:41 AM
GJ, you bring up interesting points that people that don't drink *might* be just as consumed with alcohol as an alcoholic. I think that is an exaggeration of what you probably meant, but I think I know what you mean.
Nope, that's pretty much it. It also keeps them from seeing the good side of things. My father doesn't drink, and has never had a drinking problem, as far as I can tell, but he KNOWS that alcohol is EVIL.
The first is that it's gotten a bit off thread. This isn't an issue about addiction or AA. Not that those aren't valid. They are. But they themselves are not the issue.
I've yet to see a thread, or conversation steered by an agenda, those are for work, this is people sharing. Threads veer in and out of topic all the time, on this, and just about every forum I've been on.
I'd also like to point out that alcohol can be HEALTHY for the body. First, is the fact that for much of human history water was NOT good for you, due to all the stuff floating around in it. So for those people drinking beer and wine was a good way to go. Second, homemade beer is an excellent source of B vitamins, and a number of other things. Third, red wine has also been shown to be good for your heart in limited quantity.
The key here is moderation. What is the best approach to the problem at hand. In some cases it's carrying the maiden across the water, in other's it not touching her, or even acknowledging her presence. For Steve it sounds like he's made an excellence choice in deciding not to drink. For me, I think a beer or two now and then is probably also an excellent choice. I don't think that several dozen beers + shots, etc until you can't stand is in ANYBODY's best interest.
It's really easy to just lump it all together, and say it's bad for you, and then condemn everybody else who enjoys it. It's much harder to attempt to deal with the situation on a moment by moment basis. It usually involves stepping outside the simple rules that have been given to us, and thinking for ourselves, and dealing with the situation as it is. Not how we'd like it to be, not how it would win the argument, not how it would allow us to condemn the other guy as wrong, but as things *really* are. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| I am awaiting the day that my practice takes me away from sugar. I have the feeling the past few days that a good deal of my sugar craving comes from anger and defiance. I don't like that I can't eat what I want to eat when I want to eat it due to my digestive troubles. It makes me a little crazy when my spouse has a quick bite at 8:30 pm and I can't join him. Well, I can't join him to even eat supper if it is past about 4:00 in the afternoon  Although it makes for many opportunties for delightful family brunches (we are going for brunch with our daughter on Sunday and I so looking forward to it!), it is not the same as sharing an evening meal. One thing I can digest late at night (i.e.past 6 pm) is semi-liquid foods (ice cream!) and sugar (popsicles, hard candy, too much sugar in herb tea) and I am using that as an excuse to eat more of it. I am suffering the poundage added and surely the other problems associated with sugar. PMS makes it worse. Well, I certainly have lots to meditate on and ponder....
And to go back to alcohol and simplistic rules....I'll never forget the day my 8 year old son saw me drinking a coffee (or something) in the car and spouted "Mommy, you know you shouldn't drink and drive!"
Edited by tourist 2006-08-05 11:33 AM
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| Yes you're right Fifi.
I was simply thinking of Steve and his dilemna.
*Fifi* - 2006-08-05 6:41 AM
Purna,
As in all conversations, twists and turns are taken. So, this, indeed, can be a thread about addiction and AA! Everyone's input counts, not just yours.
I am interested in reading people's stories of addiction, struggle, enlightenment and choice.
Thanks, fifi
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| Hey Purna,
Enough of me!
Argh! The sugar addiction!! Very insidious.
Bummer about your dad's attitude regarding alcohol, GJ.
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| I don't care about alcohol anymore, but at one time I did.
Today I'm completely satisfied to not consume alcohol, and my yoga has been a huge part of the self analysis that took me to this point.
I'm glad to hear about the best wines and beers on the market or the best single malt scotch and the depth of craftmanship that goes into making these flavorful masterpieces, and a part of me wishes that I could simply enjoy a sip, however my blood is such that alcohol reacts and something happens that I don't understand.
So I just don't drink anymore, and haven't for 5 years August 15.
Red grapes have all the benefits of red wine without the alcohol.
Today we have clean water.
I don't have a good reason to risk my behavior or lack of self control and try alcohol again.
But, I'm so glad to see that everyone else can enjoy it responsibly.
An hour to two hours of yogasana doesn't leave me any time to drink like I used to, either.
I still have some homebrew I make six years ago in the basement, bottled and in the carboy.
Both are belgian ales. I'd venture a guess to say that belgian ales are the most complex beers that there are to taste.
The craftsmanship of the belgian ale maker is great.
Edited by SCThornley 2006-08-05 2:46 PM
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| i used to like a good belgian beer or a couple of glasses of red wine or some quality champagne a few times a week. and the occasional mojito. i never drunk big quantities, but i did drink regularly.
then gradually i started to get the worst hangovers, at the end even half a glass of wine would make me feel the next day as if i'd had a bottle of whiskey. so i was forced to quit, it wasn't a choice really.
at first i was frustrated. but now, a year and a half later, i am so terribly grateful that my body forced me to quit.
my family and old friends drink a lot, and when they re drunk they are such unpleasant company compared to when sober. i never noticed that before. i don't judge them, i ve been there and done that, but i am so relieved that i am not tempted to go there anymore. it does create some tensions though, they really do not like it that i no longer drink. interesting phenomenon to observe.
actually, i thought for a while that i'd developed an allergy of some kind, and that that was the reason why i didn't tolerate alcohol anymore, but now i think more and more that it's the yoga.
the same thing is going on with food - getting hypersensitive to anything bad. it makes it easy to make healthy choices - but socially it's a bit of a problem sometimes. then, i guess i can learn from this too. even though i mostly ate healthily when by myself, i used to be the kind of person who would eat crap to please others when in company. since my body has become so sensitive, i can no longer do that, and am forced to stand up for myself and my principles... good practice. thank you body. | |
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| tourist - 2006-08-05 11:31 AM
And to go back to alcohol and simplistic rules....I'll never forget the day my 8 year old son saw me drinking a coffee (or something ) in the car and spouted "Mommy, you know you shouldn't drink and drive!"
Lots of things are like that. When you're older things get a bit more complex, and that it's not as cut and dried as you were taught in school.
Red grapes have all the benefits of red wine without the alcohol.
Today we have clean water.
Sure, those were just examples of reasons why in the past it made more sense to drink beer and wine than water.
since my body has become so sensitive, i can no longer do that, and am forced to stand up for myself and my principles... good practice. thank you body.
I'm finding myself with less and less tolerance for people who want to push me into doing something that will hurt my body in some way. I've got a friend who can be a bit overbearing, and pushy, and tends to dominate conversations.
Usually this doesn't bother me, because he usually got something interesting to say, but sometimes I find he keeps me at his house past the time I would want to be there. Often times I'll say "I'm going home now," and he'll drag me back into some other conversation, or go off on another tangent. We can on and on like this for hours, until finally he gets tired of it or something.
Anyway, last time I was over at his house it was getting late, and I looked at him and said, "It's late, I'm going home", stood up and promptly left. | |
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| When my husband went into rehab last year, I decided to give up alcohol all together. To be honest, I was over it.. a little pissed off at it (of course, I blamed the alcohol). When I did give it up (for me, no prob, food is my drug of choice), I turned to sugar for the first time in my life. Before, I could've cared less about ice cream or candy.....but with the stress of him in rehab, my needing to run the business all alone, not knowing the fate of our relationship, and a whole slew of garbage... it came on pretty strong. My big wall of denial came crashing down during this time and I realized I was in full-blown relapse with my eating disorder.
Now, my husband has 18mo sobriety, and I have 15 mo. recovery. I no longer drink alcohol or caffiene. I no longer eat sugar as well. I limit my soda to 1 or 2 diet ginger ale/week. I tell you what, though, I feel better than I have in ages! I haven't been sick at all in the last 15 mo. I do not miss the "groggies" from booze. And, to tell you the truth, I have just as much fun without it. Luckily now, I have a strong program of recovery to help prevent me from eating for emotional reasons.
But kudos to you all who can eat and drink whatever..... I have just accepted the fact that isn't for me. I operate better with a set of rules and guidelines by which to live my life...
I found that regularly practing yoga helps me with my body image and my stress levels- which, in turn, encourage me to take care of myself. I find that I do not want to engage in self- destructive behaviors anymore. | |
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| joscmt - 2006-08-13 1:26 AM
When my husband went into rehab last year, I decided to give up alcohol all together. To be honest, I was over it.. a little pissed off at it (of course, I blamed the alcohol). When I did give it up (for me, no prob, food is my drug of choice), I turned to sugar for the first time in my life. Before, I could've cared less about ice cream or candy.....but with the stress of him in rehab, my needing to run the business all alone, not knowing the fate of our relationship, and a whole slew of garbage... it came on pretty strong. My big wall of denial came crashing down during this time and I realized I was in full-blown relapse with my eating disorder.
Now, my husband has 18mo sobriety, and I have 15 mo. recovery. I no longer drink alcohol or caffiene. I no longer eat sugar as well. I limit my soda to 1 or 2 diet ginger ale/week. I tell you what, though, I feel better than I have in ages! I haven't been sick at all in the last 15 mo. I do not miss the "groggies" from booze. And, to tell you the truth, I have just as much fun without it. Luckily now, I have a strong program of recovery to help prevent me from eating for emotional reasons.
But kudos to you all who can eat and drink whatever..... I have just accepted the fact that isn't for me. I operate better with a set of rules and guidelines by which to live my life...
I found that regularly practing yoga helps me with my body image and my stress levels- which, in turn, encourage me to take care of myself. I find that I do not want to engage in self- destructive behaviors anymore.
August 15, this Tuesday, will be five years NO alcohol for me.
I too needed sugar when I stopped drinking. It took about 2 years and a recommitment to my yogasana to finally find the strength within to face up to the reality of it all.
I went from over 400 to under 260, now, and I'm a big guy--6'9'' so I always carried the weight, but now I look much better, and my spirit is much better.
I've found that my yogasana really helps clean up the mess left behind by so many years of less than perfect living. Not that I'm living in divinity now, but at least I've got my sights set on a higher ground.
I just want you to know that, I been there, and can hear you, and know what it's like. | |
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| Craving sugar makes sense. Beer and wine contain tons of sugar, which is what the yeast eat, until they produce so much alcohol that they die in their own poisons. So with no drinking your body was looking to get it's sugar fix someplace else. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| SCT - do you have a party or something to mark the special day? I think AA folk do little medals and a ceremony, yes? I really like the idea of some little ritual, even if it is just something small you do on your own. Shall we have a party here? I'll bring chips! | |
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| tourist - 2006-08-13 1:07 PM
SCT - do you have a party or something to mark the special day? I think AA folk do little medals and a ceremony, yes? I really like the idea of some little ritual, even if it is just something small you do on your own. Shall we have a party here? I'll bring chips!
Grace, at the dinner table.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | GreenJello - 2006-08-04 12:16 PM
[
I really don't consider have a few to be off the path, far from it. The people who are completely and utterly NO BEER, are just as much of the drinking game as the people who are drinking constantly. This is part of the problem with AA, though it's definitely better than drinking, it's still a game of sorts.
You give the impression that you know an awful lot about alcoholism and alcoholics . . . what is your experience with AA? Have you ever actually been to an AA meeting or talked with someone who is actively working the 12 steps/integrating the program of AA into their lives?
I quit drinking 3 years ago (May 9, 2003). I don't care to share the details of my experiences in this public forum but suffice it to say I found it prudent to put down the drink (God willing) for good. I don't care if people drink or not (my husband still drinks) but I won't be around drunks.
And for what it's worth, practicing yoga had absolutely no effect in helping me to quit. | |
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| JackieCat - 2006-08-14 10:46 PM
And for what it's worth, practicing yoga had absolutely no effect in helping me to quit.
What sort of yoga do you do? Do you view it as more than just exercise? How long have you been doing it? Do you do anything more than asana practice? What have been the effects of your practice? | |
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| Today is FIVE years and no alcohol.
Woot!
That's the longest in my life[no joke], taking into consideration every little sip of beer and wine I've ever had, and every fishing trip as a young lad.
Yoga has played an extensive role in my ability to self analyze and honestly deconstruct the ego that depended on alcohol. Rebuilding post alcohol is quite a responsibility that I guess I never considered with as much sacred seriousness as i do now.
Namaste. | |
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| SCThornley - 2006-08-15 1:34 PM
Yoga has played an extensive role in my ability to self analyze and honestly deconstruct the ego that depended on alcohol.
Which it should do with all our deamons....
Congrats Steve! | |
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| thank you.
always-practice, practice, practice | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | I started out with Bikram. I got tired of the hot room so I no longer do Bikram. Now I just do regular yoga (not sure how else to describe it)- vinyasa or power yoga. I've been doing yoga regularly for about 5 years.
In addition to exercise and increasing strength and flexibility, I view it as a way to help me to stay present in the moment by coordinating breath and movement. I try to take that out of the yoga room and into my regular life.
By other than asana practice, do you mean meditation and chanting? I do meditate, but not super regularly. I don't chant. | |
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As far as my experience go, they can't compare to yours. All I was originally attempting to do was share some interesting insights I found in this book, and doing a poor job of explaining a very complex subject. I seriously recommend you read the book, and get your info first hand.
JackieCat - 2006-08-15 5:31 PM
In addition to exercise and increasing strength and flexibility, I view it as a way to help me to stay present in the moment by coordinating breath and movement. I try to take that out of the yoga room and into my regular life.
Good. I know lots of gymnasts, but few yogis.
By other than asana practice, do you mean meditation and chanting? I do meditate, but not super regularly. I don't chant.
Yes, I think everybody needs something that will give you an objective view point on their own mechanisms. I also find that both meditation and yoga make me much happier and centered, so that I don't want to mess that feeling up with alcohol, drugs, lack of sleep, hanging out with toxic people, or any other manner of things that are bad for me. When I'm not as happy or contented, I'm much more likely to do things that aren't good for me, such as drink.
Anyway, this is all my opinion, I could very well be completely off. (Or at least not explaining myself very well) | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | I'm not really complaining that yoga didn't "cure" my drinking problem as I am noting that doing yoga didn't really help me to stop. I had to take more drastic measures that I won't go into here. I know I don't take yoga as seriously as some of the posters here do- I approach it in such a way that it stays fun for me. I don't expect it to cure my ills. I do try to practice spiritual principles and integrate them into my life, and some of them line up with yoga philosophy. This just isn't stuff I think about when I'm doing a downward facing dog. | |
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| JackieCat - 2006-08-15 10:03 PM
I'm not really complaining that yoga didn't "cure" my drinking problem as I am noting that doing yoga didn't really help me to stop.
Fair enough.
I know I don't take yoga as seriously as some of the posters here do- I approach it in such a way that it stays fun for me. I don't expect it to cure my ills.
Okay, I'm just pointing out that you're going to get out what you put in. I think the reason that our experiences may be different is two things. First, I've never had a serious problem with alcohol. Second, I probably put more into my practice. So it's probably a combination of a weak desire for drink and a strong practice. If the desire for drink was stronger, the practice might not have made much of a difference. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I have to agree somewhat with Jackie here. In my experience with AA and Al-anon, it is NOT a complete practice. I discovered Yoga or should I say alternative approaches after I was so frustrated with the "games" that I observed with the whole AA and Al-anon concept. This was many moons ago. However, my ex-husband and Mother-in-law are still in the program today, as are many friends that I've met over the years. I think it is wonderful that they have "something", but for me, it was obviously very limiting and not enough. I was not AA, I was in Al-anon. Reading AA's Blue Book was very intriquing to me when dealing with my ex-husband years ago. I like to think of Al-anon as a stepping stone.
Having that said, Yoga, not just Hatha Yoga & Vedanta Philosophy, but various other forms which includes Tibetan Buddhism, Tai Chi Qi Gong, Zen Philosophy and others, are definitely what I would consider complete as far as training the mind, balancing the body and gaining spiritual insight in self-realization. Sometimes when I look back and have conversations with AA'ers, I see lots of similarities of a potentially good practice, however, there are so many other aspects of the human body system and living a completely balanced life - there are too many gaps and too much left unsaid and not observed. The AA and Al-anon concepts are good, but there has to be a point where you have to move on, otherwise you become "dependant" on AA and Al-alanon, which is where the danger lies....its that whole "dependant" issue at play, its also about "good association" with others who may or may not be sincere about what they are doing, and who like Jackie mentioned, "playing games with themselves". It's also about where people are at with their karma, their understanding, what they are willing to accept and practice. Doesn't this sound familiar with Yoga as well?? I personally got very tired of being around that atmosphere, (believe me it didn't take very long) with people who were on merrygoround of denial and just basically couldn't get a handle on how to live - daily. BUT, on the other hand, they didn't have the correct tools or proper guidance to get them on the right track. Part of the reason for this is that Sponsorship in AA is very important, however, "good" sponsors or AA Guru's if you will, are very hard to find these days and there again, even their knowledge is very limited, because all you have is the sponsor's level of wisdom and experience, which may or may not be condusive to your level of understanding and/or advancement. Sometimes, the generation gap is far too great to reach the ones entering into AA and Al-anon these days.
My experience is that I moved on a long time ago. I respect the program to a degree and feel it is a great "stepping stone" for anyone who has a problem with drinking. Alcoholism is a "spiritual" disease, however, there are some physical aspects to consider (which they are not according to the bible of AA). According to Chinese Medicine Theory, there are some imbalances within the human body to consider, also genetics are another. These things can be treated and should be analyzed...but they are not, which is unfortunate, because its not all about drinking, it is about a human body being out of balance as well.
Interesting topic here. Although, it is a very complicated one. I say Yoga is a great avenue to explore if you are familiar with alcoholism and have reached a level of what AA would call, "hitting rock bottom". I just think there needs to be some serious inquiry in relation to the physical aspect before you embark upon the yoga path. If you are sincere and can literally stop drinking, go for yoga, and try to find a guru and explain your situation to him/her. If you find yourself having problems with on and off again drinking, then you really should consult with either a medical practitioner (which in my experience, will only send you to the program such as AA or some kind of detox, then AA), or an alternative health option - which could be Traditional Chinese Medicine, Ayurvedic medicine or possibly a holistic approach. These are very good, but need patience and diligence, as they take time to establish.
Edited by Cyndi 2006-08-18 3:50 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Cyndi - I think you raise some good points. From what I understand of AA, it was a couple of guys who just got together to support each other and one of them had some pretty good ideas about how they could do that. It is a good start and for most people, that is where they start to take their baby steps toward a better life. For some, that is enough. For some, they need more. Thank goodness we have so many other choices to help us seekers | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | Cyndi- I think you are confusing me with someone else (GJ, maybe?) In my experience, while I have definitely witnessed game playing at some levels, on a conceptual level I haven't really found that AA is rife with games.
Regarding dependence on AA, my experience has been that AA teaches reliance (or dependence, if you will) on a power greater than oneself. There are definitely similarities to AA's philosophy and the philosophy of certain yoga masters- I have found Erich Schiffmann's philosophy of yoga to be remarkably similar to AA's third step- aligning your will with the will of God as you understand Him (Her/It/Whatever It Is.)
Cyndi - 2006-08-18 3:48 PM
Alcoholism is a "spiritual" disease, however, there are some physical aspects to consider (which they are not according to the bible of AA). According to Chinese Medicine Theory, there are some imbalances within the human body to consider, also genetics are another. These things can be treated and should be analyzed...but they are not, which is unfortunate, because its not all about drinking, it is about a human body being out of balance as well.
AA does consider and address the physical aspects of alcoholism. "The Doctor's Opinion" (which is an introduction of sorts to ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, otherwise known as the "Big Book") talks about the alcoholic's physical allergy to alcohol. It is the allergy that activates the physical craving that occurs when the alcoholic drinks (and which is why it is the first drink that gets you- the alcoholic- drunk). However, as a friend of mine says, if that were all there was to it, rehab would be kicking out winners. Once the physical part is addressed, the alcoholic has to work on the mental/spiritual aspect or, according to AA, he/she will drink again. | |
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| i wish and hope that my SIL goes to meetings (NA, AA, OA/FAA). i do not know if she is active, but i also know that she's really resistant to AA because she feels ashamed and doesn't want to be labeled or label herself.
but the meetings really do work for a lot of people, and i know that they would work for her if she would work them.
one summer, i spent a lot of time with a friend who lived in this awesome mansion right on a resevoir (that was also a place where one could swim, canoe, etc) that was so beautiful. she rented a room in this house and we had awesome parties and bon fires there. She was in FAA, and the other person who lived there was in AA. They often had "-A" parties there--which were really fun and cool. It was really great to hang out with people who were working hard to better themselves, and i got a lot of clients through it. LOL
it was a great summer, really. my friend (in FAA) does intuitive readings and is awesome, she is also a bhakti yogini and would lead kirtans by the bon fires and we would do all kinds of cool rituals out there like writing goals and burning them or 'making apologies' that maybe we couldn't make in person and burning those. And the swimming, running in the flower gardens, veggie gardens and fields and woods around the place--it was just picture perfect.
a really romantic summer. | |
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| I have seen both sides of this picture. I have seen great recovery, and I have seen "dry drunk". With 12-step, as with anything, you get what you put into it. I find a lot of the principles of 12-step to be in complete alignment with yoga philosophy. I work a 12-step program very diligently- I am in OA/HOW- how is a more disciplined sect of OA. In it, I call my sponsor daily (no, she is not an OA-guru- they are not gurus- they are people with some of the same experiences), I do a reading and writing assignment daily, I write down my food for the day and commit it to my sponsor (with food it's tricky- imagine being an alcoholic and committing to only 5 shots a day), I read my assignment to her- now, in comparison, I know people who call their sponsor every now and then, don't work the steps or principles, and basically do not change. Much in the same way I know people who do yoga once/week as a workout and leave it at that.
In terms of the labeling, there is confusion with this with people not in program. Once you surrender to the healing process, standing before a group and saying, "Hi, I'm Marylisa, compulsive overeater" is not me giving myself a lablel- rather, it's me humbling myself before a group of people. An exercise in ego-reduction. I am admitting my problem instead of hiding from it or covering it up.
My world has changed as a result of the 12-steps and my hard work... I know hundreds of others in the same boat- hell, there are 7 of us in recovery at my restaurant alone! | |
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| see, i told ya'll she has lots to be proud of. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| jo - I am curious to know if your eating disorder had anything to do with your choice of career? I am reading all of your restaurant references with deep interest as my daughter is about to graduate from cooking school and already has had several offers from "big" restaurants. If you have any advice you would like to pass on to her about the biz, send me a PM | |
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| i can't answer for jo, but i can tell you about what experience i do have (by proxy).
my sister in law was bulemic before becoming alcoholic and a drug addict. she didn't work in restaurants until after she was already in the disorder. my friend who is a member of FAA (food addicts anonymous) has never worked in the restaurant industry.
for many people, eating disorders develop out of behavoiral problems. the disoders are largely about a sense of control, particularly when an individual feels powerless (it is their way of gaining power). this is the case in regards to my SIL. She's symptomatic of the family 'dis-ease' (psychological and behavoiral relational patterning).
my friend, on the other hand, has a more biological component. her body reacts to sugar, flour, and wheat as an alcoholic does to alcohol--as if it's an 'allergen' that sends her mind-body into certain biochemical pathways that manifest like manic-depression. this then leads to certain behavoiral patterns that become engrained into the brain, which are then supported and set off by continued influx of the chemicals. So, she abstains from all flour, all sugar (even some sugary fruits), and all bread and so on. When she does, she is clear as a bell--but still needs help with behavoiral reactivity and the difficults of being abstinate in a culture that totally isn't!
largely, people develop eating disorders because of underlying biochemical or psychological issues. it is rare that an individual will develop one just because they work in a restaurant.
does that help mama relax about her baby? i'm sure mama did a good job and baby is going to be fine. | |
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| allergen
that's how my body reacts to alcohol, for sure.
I'm so glad that I don't drink any longer. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| No - not worried about baby She does love food but has a pretty healthy attitude toward it. I worried more when she was a teen and hanging around with skinny dancers.  I'm just curious - or maybe nosey | |
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| tourist- be as nosy as you want! It's taken me awhile to not be ashamed of my illness or who I am. I've been a compulsive binge eater for as long as I can remember. For me, it's not so much an addiction (although there is a physiological component there for sure)- I was never a sugar eater. Mine was more of compulsion and control. It was more of "oh, I want an "X", I'll eat an "X" without thinking of consequences. Maybe it came about because I was too scared to be risky in other areas (ie-drugs) I was always afraid of what others in authority would think- in steps my people-pleaser mode (that ultimately lead me to marry an alcoholic- who's now in recovery) I thought of consequences in every other aspect of my life. But I was in control with food (or so I thought) and I liked the feeling of being full- it numbed out the bad stuff. Now kieep in mind, for me, the bad stuff was a guy not talking to me or bad grades on a test, arguing with a friend. I wasn't abused as a child, I didn't grow up with alcoholics in my house. When I was stuffed, all I could think about was the feeling in my stomach. It eventually spiraled out of control- it got to where it was all I'd think about. I'd hide it in my car, around the house- I'd hide wrappers. I'd plan a binge days in advance knowing exactly what I'd eat. I didn't want people to know I was overweight from eating- I wanted them to think it was something else. Yeah, sick, silly thinking, I know.... There's a lot more to my story and I'd be happy to share it with you.
As for the restaurant, I'm sure, subconsciously, it had something to do with it. I loved to cook, I had (have) a knack for combining different flavors, no need for recipes, etc. It sounded like a good idea. BUT, I've heard more laughter from people in 12-step- AA, OA, Al-Anon when they hear that an COA (compulsive overeater) and an alcoholic own a restaurant. It's the perfect scenario for both addictions. Food and/or drink was always in hand.
I know A LOT of addicts in the restaurant industry. I think it doesn't breed addicts- because I think it is not something that happens overnight- but it does attract them. As a waiter- you have cash in your pocket at the end of the night. Kitchen or front- you work late in the day (so you sleep off the night before). When I was younger, we would work 10-12 hours/day, hit the bars after work (after having several martinis at work), hit the pizza stand on our way home at 4am, pass out and start all over again. I would say, easily, in my career, 70% of the people I have worked with were users of some sort- with 50% of them being addicts. Before my husband and I were in recovery, including ourselves, at least half of our staff (of 25) were abusers. Since we've been in recovery, the addicts have slowly left -it's not fun to work there as an addict anymore because no one validates your behavior- and the recovering addicts have come on board. We have people who do drink alcohol- they are just the ones who don't abuse it- and there is just one guy who is recovering from crack addiction who is teetering on the fence of recovery. I can say, now, though, with the exception of the teeterer, there are no active abusers in the restaurant anymore. It's the first place I have ever worked where there was recovery and people trying to better themselves. It can make for some cranky days though- recovery isn't easy- even with most of us a year or more into it.
Addiction is an interesting beast. I used alcohol as a substitute for food. I felt it was more socially acceptable. But alcohol was easy for me to quit (we don't drink in OA for a variety of reasons- 1. the sugar 2. being drunk opens up the opportunity to overeat 3. sometimes, giving up one addiction can lead to another). Food on the other hand was tricky. Once I got abstinent, got a food plan, I would see my hand venturing off towards food. When my brain was completely unaware! I've learned that I have to be on my guard all the time because, if not, I will eat without even paying attention. My body had to relearn hunger- it had been years since I had felt hunger!
Someone likened drugs of choice to a dragon in a den. With drinking and drugs, once the dragon is asleep you run like hell from the den. With food, you have to go in an rub the dragon's belly 5x/day (depending on your food plan) and hope you don't wake it up. Unfortunately, you can't give up food altogether. That's why, for me, OA/HOW works. It's structure and rigidity keeps my in the moment. I have accountabillity to someone else every day. It's too rigid for some people. But the way I see it, pro athletes don't get to do what they want all the time. They have rules to follow. Kids have rules, monks have rules- as I became an adult and began to live on my own, I had no rules. NO RULES was the rule. I wasn't accountable to anyone. Now I have a set of rules I live by. Taking a scale into a restaurant or to the dinner table and measuring my portions seems weird to some people, but it humbles me. It reminds me that I am in the den petting the dragon. The scale keeps me quiet- and I can't wake te dragon if I'm quiet.
WHOA! long post! It's becoming my signature I guess! | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Thanks for that awesome reply! I was nodding my head all the way through as it sounds so much like what I have heard both of my kids say about the restaurant biz. It is an ideal environment for all kinds of unhealthy living. Tony Bourdain - need I say more? My daughter was always a pretty serious eater - loved food from day one. Spit out any junk I tried to feed her out of a jar and insisted (at 11 months, mind you!) on the good home made stuff she seemed to know was in the fridge  Flavour combos - yeah - one thing she didn't like was green beans so I mixed them in apple sauce. It is still one of her favourite combos to this day. She's 23. At age 3 she would go in the fridge and get out a couple of eggs, crack them onto a plate (to look at them, I guess?) and I would find them there on the kitchen floor. At 8 she would come home and make a salad for an after school snack Once the Food Network came on TV she watched (with her brother) constantly and learned a lot of the basics from David Rosengarden. In Grade 12 she took the Cafeteria course and had to rescue a hollandaise someone started too early. She kept it going for 1 1/2 hours without it "breaking." Tried to stay out of the food biz because it was her passion, but kept gravitating toward restaurant jobs so now she is going for it big time and hoping to get a good placement for her chef's apprenticeship. We're pretty proud of her And glad when she comes home to visit so she can cook for us! | |
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| i think it's awesome when a person finds his/her passion young.
i was going to add what joscmt already said, which is that the business seems to attract addicts, but it doesn't 'breed' them.
another industry that attracts addicts or people with various problems--psychology, social work, etc. it doesn't breed them and a lot of great people in the industry do not have problems. But, my SIL was an active addict working as a group therapy leader. She worked in a residential psychatric care center for children and was considered 'one of the best employees we have'--she would be drunk at work! And, i discovered that all of her friends there wre also drug or alcohol abusers. It was at this facility--where she worked--that she would steal drugs from the pharmacy, meant for the kids treatments, and take them herself!
It was funny because i used to find her at the computer researching different types of drugs. she would say "oh, i'm just trying to learn what these kids are on and why so that i'll be more prepared for my social work degree." except, masters in social work doesn't cover drug interactions. At that point, i realized she was researching to see which drugs would get her high and which wouldn't.
it was pretty messed up. | |
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Expert Yogi
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| ZB - I have heard that as well. Some messed up folks trying to "help" other people
Both my kids worked in family restaurants in high school and my son said that the kitchen employees tended to be a couple of teenagers, a middle aged woman refugee and a couple of guys who either through addicitons or whatever were totally unable to fit in with general society. It is a whole universe unto itself. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| ZB - I have heard that as well. Some messed up folks trying to "help" other people
Both my kids worked in family restaurants in high school and my son said that the kitchen employees tended to be a couple of teenagers, a middle aged woman refugee and a couple of guys who either through addicitons or whatever were totally unable to fit in with general society. It is a whole universe unto itself. | |
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| It is a whole universe. People just stare blankly when I tell them some of the stories- of sex, drugs, and rock and roll. They assume that it has the same standards as a corporate office. I have naked people, been offered drugs, cussed at, cussed to, you name it... we used to joke around that a kitchen was like a pirate ship- lots of cussing, booze, sexual stuffs (jokes, harassment, etc), fire, knives, theft... aarrgghhh! you name it. Now, we try to tame the beast here at my place, but it doesn't always work out that way. Sexual harassment is a no brainer- I don't tolerate it. That movie "Waiting" is pretty bad, but also pretty accurate...at least for the majority of restaurants I have worked at...
zb- funny you should mention therapy centers. On another website, I connected with a woman who needed help with her food addiction- and she was an eating disorder and addiction counselor! I thought, how can this woman help others when she can't love herself......of course, I also know that it's a heck of a lot easier to look at everyone else's stuff that it is to look at yours. It's easy avoidance. Hell, I spent the better part of 10 years looking at my husband's flaws and pretending I didn't have any! Ha! healthy, no? hahahahaa......oh.....those were the days..... oh wait, no they weren't , they sucked... | |
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| i found that with my SIL, the work was this sort of never-ending but high social reward (oh, you're such a good person to do that kind of work!), so she could easily sink into workaholism to avoid dealing with her stuff. she would often skip family holidays claiming that she 'had' to work, when she actually volunteered to work on those days.
people will go to great lengths to avoid their stuff. . .you know. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| 10 years? I am over 30 years with this husband (ok, he is my first ) and he is still way mmore screwed up than I am | |
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| is it strange to call a husband your 'first husband' or 'this husband?"
ryan cracks up because i introduce him to people as my first husband or this husband. he's like 'what, you're expecting a second?"
lol
he's my first everything--first kiss, first date, first boyfriend, etc. | |
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| It sounds a little weird to me... but hey, whatever floats your boat- it's not up to me to pass judgement! At least you aren't calling him the ol' ball and chain.... right?? Or tootsie wootsie? tee hee | |
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| zoebird - 2006-08-22 2:35 PM
people will go to great lengths to avoid their stuff. . .you know.
And when you point it out, they lash out and try to make you feel all guilty and stuff..... Yeah, I've noticed, which is the reason why I seldom rebuke people. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| I say "first husband" when I want him to smarten up Hasn't worked yet...
Great quote, there GJ. Love it! | |
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| tourist - 2006-08-22 8:16 PM
I say "first husband" when I want him to smarten up Hasn't worked yet...
Time to move on to the beatings.... Or tell him you've met a much younger guy from Cincinnati....
Great quote, there GJ. Love it!
Thanks! | |
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yoga & booze