|
|
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
   
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | Probably going to say I should stay to myself but has been on my mind.
I teach at two large corporation gyms (I won't use names here). The other day I had to sub in for another instructor (believe it or not, it was a strip tease class, ugh!!!). The class before mine was Extreme Yoga. I arrived at the gym early so I watched the second half of the class though a one sided mirror window. Nice, smooth class.
It is mandatory to write the number of students in a log after your class with your signature. They always tell all teachers and instructors to "NOT INFLATE CLASS NUMBERS". Well, I went to sign out and I saw the yoga teacher before my class inflated her class numbers. (She might read this and know I'm talking about her) I find that offensive for a yoga teacher.
I know I should probably let it go. Her karma will follow her but it bothers me that someone who presents themselves in a spiritual light and should be practicing the Yamas and Niyamas would blatantly lie. I lost respect for her.
I struggle whether I should let management know but I know it's not my position to say anything.
What would you do???? 
Mish | |
| | |
| I honestly think I'd narc kiddo--first to her that you know she lied and then management. We can debate right & wrong till we're nuts--fact is, it's wrong. We could consider the reasons she may be doing it--needs the money, management has screwed her over, etc., etc. Don't care.
My number one reason for letting her know the jig is up is that it's yet another example of unprofessional behavior that I find permeates the yoga teacher profession and taints teachers trying to do right. If we don't at least attempt to police ourselves, somebody else will. When I tell people I'm a yoga teacher, I don't want them rolling their eyes and dismissing it as not a real job. | |
| | |
| There are three things you can do: repress, express or release.
What would I do? If it bothered me alot, I'd address it with the instructor first and ask them if they are aware of what they have done. Maybe they just can't count! | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
 
| This is one problem that comes from paying teachers by the number of students in a class. Why doesn't this company do spot checks? I could argue for or again turning her in depending on my mood.... | |
| | |
| Mishoga,
This used to happen all the time in the gyms I worked and it drove me nuts. However, it does come back to them. Eventually the group ex director will get hip or check in on the class. More times then not, those dishonest about numbers get canned.
I wouldn't do anything. Let the instructor hang themselves. You don't have do anything and Karma will work it's magic.
| |
| | |
| mishoga - 2006-10-07 7:59 AM
Probably going to say I should stay to myself but has been on my mind.
I teach at two large corporation gyms (I won't use names here ). The other day I had to sub in for another instructor (believe it or not, it was a strip tease class, ugh!!! ). The class before mine was Extreme Yoga. I arrived at the gym early so I watched the second half of the class though a one sided mirror window. Nice, smooth class.
It is mandatory to write the number of students in a log after your class with your signature. They always tell all teachers and instructors to "NOT INFLATE CLASS NUMBERS". Well, I went to sign out and I saw the yoga teacher before my class inflated her class numbers. (She might read this and know I'm talking about her ) I find that offensive for a yoga teacher.
I know I should probably let it go. Her karma will follow her but it bothers me that someone who presents themselves in a spiritual light and should be practicing the Yamas and Niyamas would blatantly lie. I lost respect for her.
I struggle whether I should let management know but I know it's not my position to say anything.
What would you do????
Mish
What I shall do is: I shall take the other teacher for a lunch treat, or at least Starbucks Coffee, or Cold Zone Icecreame. Then make her totally comfortable, and try to know why she has to inflate the numbers. This is because:
Actual activity in any Karma is NOT important. It is not karma at all. What is karma is intention behind the activity.
You might find that her intention is very divine. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | Neel, I doubt her intention is divine. If your numbers are too low they cancel your class out. But she has to know I was signing the book right after her and I saw how many students were in the class. I just don't understand why unless it has to do with intelligence rather than intention.
What I'd like to ask her is if she believes she practices satya, but of course I won't.
I'm going to leave it but I have to say immediately she lost my respect. I know I should not be like that but it is kind of a feeling the permiates (I know, my spelling) my entire being. I can handle a lot of things about people but I detest dishonesty. I associate it with integrity.
Mish | |
| | |
| mishoga - 2006-10-07 3:43 PM
Neel, I doubt her intention is divine. If your numbers are too low they cancel your class out. But she has to know I was signing the book right after her and I saw how many students were in the class. I just don't understand why unless it has to do with intelligence rather than intention.
What I'd like to ask her is if she believes she practices satya, but of course I won't.
I'm going to leave it but I have to say immediately she lost my respect. I know I should not be like that but it is kind of a feeling the permiates (I know, my spelling) my entire being. I can handle a lot of things about people but I detest dishonesty. I associate it with integrity.
Mish
Well, then I would respect you for that. But, since you asked 'what would you do', I stated what exactly I would do. And, reardless of my disrespect for her, I shall still love her. | |
| | |
| Neel--you're getting pretty darn mellow in your old age--I say shine the light of truth, justice and the American way on her deceiptfulness! | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | "I shall still love her"
Neel, that's awesome. You're inspirational!
Mish | |
| | |
| All this is chasing the tail.
You can find some other perspective in this. For example, my first thought was not "what should Mish do to handle this liar". Rather it was "Mish only saw the last half of class. Perhaps five students left early, before Mish arrived". Do those students get logged? I would log them. Granted that scenario has happened only once or twice. But I do't get paid by the head. They just ask that we log numbers. And I do.
So this is a posibility. I'm saying there isn't enough evidence for ten posters to channel energy into how to resolve a problem that may npt be any problem at all.
But the instructor may be inflating his/her numbers. So what. Is it your studio? Is this person your student or in your employ? Whatever the circumstance I don't think you need to be so reactive, so incensed.
Is it the way YOU want to live. No. Fine. Acceptable. Perhaps even honorable. But we don't live in order to be "honored" by others. We make the choices we make about living our "way" becasue it's how WE want to live. This other person has made choices Mish about the ways in which they want to live and you've said (in a recent post I believe) you don't judge. So respect that teacherrs choices and move along. I am certain you have more pertinent firs to put out closer to "home".
Neither you nor I would do this inflating. Fine. We chose to align our lives with the Sutras and this other person may not. It muct be okay this choosing of theirs. Now if you open a studio I would consider not hiring this person based on thsi experience but short of that, let it go.
| |
| | |
| I'm not liking all this "ah, it could be...,' "ah, let's love them anyway,"...c'mon folks--it's not a matter of degree--wrong must be stopped in it's tracks. This lackadaisacal attitude of it's no big deal and the universe will right the wrong is rubbish. Smite her Mish. Be our champion for good. Give me some hope girl. | |
| | |
| Darling Bruce and Mish:
Now, let us look at it closely. I agree with Mish, you and all and all their opinions. But, why Mishy is asking this question to others. She noticed something and now she has her own feelings or opinons which come from her background, knowledge, philosophy, whatever. Why is she now asking others 'what would you do'? That means she wants to know what others would do and what their logic is behind that.
My logic is : a) meet the girl in confidence b) try to know why she is doing it. Then you shall be able to decide what your next action should be. c) If you do not wish to do this, then do what you feel is good.
But, be clear and be happy.
I like Purnayoga's thought that it is possible that several students joined the class and they left before Mishy came. Now, if that is true, and then Mishy reports to the management in a hurry, and then the girl is able to get her students to prove that they left early, that can be embarrassing. Not to me, but for some. If I am manager in this case, I shall excuse Mishy and inform her to find it before reporting next time. And, that is exactly same as my previous opinion.
And, I do not see any reason not to love anyone, including Sadam Hussain, with the hope that they shall create happy world at some time. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | NB, are you sure your're not Tibetan???   | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | Purna, I would like to think students left her class midway but I doubt it. Maybe, but I sincerely doubt it. I teach there too. It's a serious gym with a client base of people who love to workout often. I could be wrong but I doubt it.
Neel, I did ask because I do want to know what you all would do. I want to tell on her like a little girl wanting to tell the teacher that Marylou took an extra cookie, but I am conflicted. Part of me says "Mish, mind your own business, it will come back to her".
Yes, I did want to hear from all here as I respect your opinions, sometimes more than my own.
Mish | |
| | |
| I would effort to deal with my feelings about this person getting "ahead" of me through dishonest means.
mishoga - 2006-10-08 4:26 AM
Purna, I would like to think students left her class midway but I doubt it. Maybe, but I sincerely doubt it. I teach there too. It's a serious gym with a client base of people who love to workout often. I could be wrong but I doubt it.
Neel, I did ask because I do want to know what you all would do. I want to tell on her like a little girl wanting to tell the teacher that Marylou took an extra cookie, but I am conflicted. Part of me says "Mish, mind your own business, it will come back to her".
Yes, I did want to hear from all here as I respect your opinions, sometimes more than my own.
Mish | |
| | |
| I found this interesting explanation of satya- maybe something to think about (unless this website is full of hooey- I'm just beginning to learn about all of this..) 
"Satya (Truthfulness)
Satya means "to speak the truth," yet it is not always desirable to speak the truth on all occasions, for it could harm someone unnecessarily. We have to consider what we say, how we say it, and in what way it could affect others. If speaking the truth has negative consequences for another, then it is better to say nothing. Satya should never come into conflict with our efforts to behave with ahimsa. The Mahabharata, the great Indian epic, says: "Speak the truth which is pleasant. Do not speak unpleasant truths. Do not lie, even if the lies are pleasing to the ear. That is the eternal law, the dharma." Please note that this does not mean speak lie. Keeping quiet and saying lies are two different things. "
from this website (sorry, I don't know how to make it a link)
http://yoga.iloveindia.com/limbs-of-yoga/yama.html
maybe it is just better to let it be....frustrating as it is. In my 12-step program, we always talk about keeping our own side of the street clean and not to look at others. I'd say as long as you are doing what you need to do for your job... her "cheating" will come back and bite her on the butt.. | |
| | |
| mishoga - 2006-10-08 7:26 AM
Purna, I would like to think students left her class midway but I doubt it. Maybe, but I sincerely doubt it. I teach there too. It's a serious gym with a client base of people who love to workout often. I could be wrong but I doubt it.
Neel, I did ask because I do want to know what you all would do. I want to tell on her like a little girl wanting to tell the teacher that Marylou took an extra cookie, but I am conflicted. Part of me says "Mish, mind your own business, it will come back to her".
Yes, I did want to hear from all here as I respect your opinions, sometimes more than my own.
Mish
But, darling Mishy: Is looking at the number written by another teacher your job? Why would you as one teacher would look into how many students are reported by any other teacher? Now that you already did it and have a doubt of what you should do, that very girl is the only one who can actually tell you what is in her mind while reporting that number. Before knowing that logic, all other thoughts are 'avidyaa'.
| |
| | |
| It's not hooey, though some web sites well intentioned ARE hooey. And this may just be one group's look at the precept of Satya. It IS truth but the interpretations may vary.
It is also true that we should manifest ahimsa into our lives.
I'll just give one example from teacher training. My teacher critiques our teaching style. He covers numerous elements. He could, in many instances say nothing, not speak the truth because it may damage. But that damage is ego and we're asked to leave ego at the door upon arrival. So we are told about out meter, our language, our vision. And some do have to adjust to hearing it as we've crafted a world where no one really says the truth.
We are there to BE better yoga teachers and in that case have consented to b taught. Now if he goes around the city telling this to every teacher he sees, well that's a completely different animal.
So this bit about not speaking the truth so others will not be hurt...I think we should be mindful, all ways, and the speaking of truth should not be violent for then it's very nature violates ahimsa. Is bruising the ego synonymous with hurting feelings??? That is the question.
joscmt - 2006-10-08 4:52 PM
I found this interesting explanation of satya- maybe something to think about (unless this website is full of hooey- I'm just beginning to learn about all of this.. )
"Satya (Truthfulness )
Satya means "to speak the truth," yet it is not always desirable to speak the truth on all occasions, for it could harm someone unnecessarily. We have to consider what we say, how we say it, and in what way it could affect others. If speaking the truth has negative consequences for another, then it is better to say nothing. Satya should never come into conflict with our efforts to behave with ahimsa. The Mahabharata, the great Indian epic, says: "Speak the truth which is pleasant. Do not speak unpleasant truths. Do not lie, even if the lies are pleasing to the ear. That is the eternal law, the dharma." Please note that this does not mean speak lie. Keeping quiet and saying lies are two different things. "
from this website (sorry, I don't know how to make it a link )
http://yoga.iloveindia.com/limbs-of-yoga/yama.html
maybe it is just better to let it be....frustrating as it is. In my 12-step program, we always talk about keeping our own side of the street clean and not to look at others. I'd say as long as you are doing what you need to do for your job... her "cheating" will come back and bite her on the butt..
Edited by purnayoga 2006-10-09 2:55 AM
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | kulkarnn - 2006-10-09 12:30 AM
mishoga - 2006-10-08 7:26 AM
Purna, I would like to think students left her class midway but I doubt it. Maybe, but I sincerely doubt it. I teach there too. It's a serious gym with a client base of people who love to workout often. I could be wrong but I doubt it.
Neel, I did ask because I do want to know what you all would do. I want to tell on her like a little girl wanting to tell the teacher that Marylou took an extra cookie, but I am conflicted. Part of me says "Mish, mind your own business, it will come back to her".
Yes, I did want to hear from all here as I respect your opinions, sometimes more than my own.
Mish
But, darling Mishy: Is looking at the number written by another teacher your job? Why would you as one teacher would look into how many students are reported by any other teacher? Now that you already did it and have a doubt of what you should do, that very girl is the only one who can actually tell you what is in her mind while reporting that number. Before knowing that logic, all other thoughts are 'avidyaa'.
I couldn't help but notice the number because it was right above where I had to write my number of students. I always take notice of numbers so I know where I am with enrollment. This gym has low class numbers (because it's relatively new to the area). It not because I'm nosey.
Mish | |
| | |
| i inflate numbers in some of my classes. one of the gyms i work for says they will cancel a class if you consistantly get fewer than 3 students. i teach three times a week there and i have a dedicated following.
for the most part, my classes well excede this minimum. but, during the summer months, during the beginning and end of the school year, and during the holiday season, it's 'hit or miss' for most students. while i've watned to leave this position behind for a number of years now, i do not because the students can't afford alternatives (paying for three classes/week for example--even in my home classes which are modestly priced), and they want classes at their gym and they want me.
on a number of occassions, the 'boss' has tried to fire me for no reason ("i want to try another style of yoga in that slot") and the students went ape-poopy on him. they complained until he rehires me and they threaten to leave the gym, etc, if he doesn't maintain my classes.
so when the numbers game came up, he said i had to have at least three. i told my students--and often they'll coordinate to make sure that 3 people are there. (usually i have 10+ so it's not an issue). But when there is only one or two--like last wednesday nite which was parent's nite at the high school and half of my students have kids in that high school, two were out of town on business, and one's baby was sick--i'll go ahead and write that i have 3 so that the boss won't get weird and try to replace me and we have to go through that drama with the students, me, the boss. . .blah blah blah.
i don't care about the job or the money--i do care about my students getting what they want. So, i'll inflate to 3 if i need to. it's not that big of a deal IMO.
does this qualify as "a divine reason" that neel mentioned?
i assert that it is lying, but since i don't care about the numbers and i don't care about anyone else's numbers, i don't really think about it.
i should add though that no one else (no other teachers) see these numbers because we write them on our timesheet for payroll. in the past, the fitness director would look at them to determine the schedule for the next semester or the abbreviated schedule for the summer based on numbers. But since she left, no one looks at them--not even payroll. So this may make a difference. and honestly, when the FD looked at them, she was very team oriented and asked us first how we wanted to build a class, or if we should move it, or what have you. So, it wasn't like "oh, for the last three weeks, you had two people; you're fired!" but rather "i notice that your numbers are down--do you want to change the time slot, should we retitle the class, do you want to do an advertising blitz throughout the gym, etc?" and that was cool. But she actually used the numbers.
no one uses the numbers now, and the boss/owner is rather capricious about everything. i've been fired and rehired 7 times in one weekend. i was out of town, gave him notice, everything under the sun i could do to let him know--no contact. and then i get home late Sun Evening (midnite) from my grandmothers (in washington state), and i get 7 messages from him: you're fired (no reason); you're hired (no reason); you're fired (agitated); you're hired (really agitated); you're fired (angry and threatening); you're hired (frustrated); and 'you're fired if you don't call me as soon as you get this message (angry). So i called him at midnite on sunday nite (he was't happy, but it was as soon as i'd gotten the message). And then he said "oh yeah, that's why you didn't show up--you told me you were out of town (his reason for initially firing me was that i didn't show up, then students went ape poopy, and the cycle stated.
so, the number 3 keeps the peace.
Edited by zoebird 2006-10-09 11:29 AM
| |
| | |
| HI Mish - remember me from the tennis center? How are you? I PM'd you!! Really tough call and I have experienced the same scenarios in both gyms and yoga studios. As a fellow New Yorker here is my take: Most gyms in NY don't pay per person. It's a flat fee.. I don't like to be paranoid but in my experience there was an alterior motive - it is their way of building their little empire. I never said anything but there were times I wish I did. Many times, when teachers do this it is because they are looking for more work/more classes. They can present their attendance numbers to management. If their numbers are the highest among their peers - they get more classes. If it is a gym chain then not only can they get more classes at that site, but their name will spread to the other locations... Hope this makes sense. If you really love your students and classes at this gym, I suggest you say something. If not then, just carry on with your classes there and allow the universe to take care of this un-yoga teacher.. It's tough here in New York and I often challenge so many who align themselves in our community. There is no rule of conduct and I think some of the stuff that goes on is much worse than dealing with the doggie dog corporate world.. Good Luck!!! | |
| | |
| mishoga - 2006-10-09 6:50 AM
kulkarnn - 2006-10-09 12:30 AM
mishoga - 2006-10-08 7:26 AM
Purna, I would like to think students left her class midway but I doubt it. Maybe, but I sincerely doubt it. I teach there too. It's a serious gym with a client base of people who love to workout often. I could be wrong but I doubt it.
Neel, I did ask because I do want to know what you all would do. I want to tell on her like a little girl wanting to tell the teacher that Marylou took an extra cookie, but I am conflicted. Part of me says "Mish, mind your own business, it will come back to her".
Yes, I did want to hear from all here as I respect your opinions, sometimes more than my own.
Mish
But, darling Mishy: Is looking at the number written by another teacher your job? Why would you as one teacher would look into how many students are reported by any other teacher? Now that you already did it and have a doubt of what you should do, that very girl is the only one who can actually tell you what is in her mind while reporting that number. Before knowing that logic, all other thoughts are 'avidyaa'.
I couldn't help but notice the number because it was right above where I had to write my number of students. I always take notice of numbers so I know where I am with enrollment. This gym has low class numbers (because it's relatively new to the area ). It not because I'm nosey.
Mish
Yes Dear Mishy. I did not mean you were nosey. What I meant was that after you saw the numbers of another teachers, you analysed in some way. That is what I mean by seeing. (In Yoga Philosophy, ... Shrimad Bhagawadgita... this term is used. yaH pashyati sa pashyati. pashyati means 'sees'. But, in philosophy means 'understands or knows'.). And, as the above post by Zoebird(?) states one of such reasons for the number theory! But, do not worry. I have no misunderstanding of you, or the one who inflated the numbers! | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | You know there is such a thing called "skillfull means". If the woman is inflating her numbers, perhaps she has a dam good reason, why does it always have to be "right" or "wrong". Why is it that some people have the need to be ALWAYS Right??? If everyone were minding there own business there would not be a need to tell on another person, or try to "micro-manage" everything. I think people need to be able to "evolve" on their own. This is the reason I like the Indian and Tibetan culture so much, it allows you the FREEDOM to make your mistakes or whatevers, on your own without interference. Like someone mentioned previously, let the "magic" of karma work by itself. Good grief. This is the reason I don't play around too much in society and the reason I refuse to be a YOGA teacher in this particular society. The old American way is very much outdated and it is a failing system. Sorry, I like the old way and the old cultures. I also like the idea of "natural" justice...its a much better system, because this is how one truly learns the true nature of oneself....things aren't always what they seem. Even something as simple as inflating numbers. I think overall it is totally unfair to sit and judge a person when you don't have the friggin balls to confront her about it first. We can sit here all day long and speculate can't we??? Facts are really important, so are face to face confrontations. It looks like a face to face is long over due right now. You should do that first, then come back and discuss what your next plan of action should be, for yourself of course. Only you can make up your mind about how you want to handle something. Personally, I mind my own business, that way others won't have any business meddling in mine. Cause this is one chick who does not always do things by the book...especially by society's measures....but, even still, I am a better ciitizen than those who think they are, and the ones who do everything by society's book. | |
| | |
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | Hi Mish-
I would just let it go and, as others have stated, let karma do its thing. It sounds like it doesn't really have any negative impact on your class, so it's probably best to just let her do her thing and you do yours. I too work for a large corporate chain of gyms and I see the same thing a lot, and not just with yoga instructors. It bugs me too but I try to just stay focused on my own stuff, no matter what anyone else is doing (as long as it's not harming me or is malicious).
This is something that I struggle with, so I identify with your post. We can't all be perfect, although some of us certainly seem to think we've come close. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | Jackie and everybody else. I am going to let it go.
I will work on my truthfulness in my life. I feel good about being honest and I'll focus my energies on that.
Thanks all for your honest replies. I do appreciate them all.
Mish | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Cyndi - I like your comment about skillful means. There may be reasons - we just don't know. As ZB says, sometimes there are good reasons (whether we individually agree with her or not is not the issue. ZB 's example shows one way to deal with it) for doing things that are not obvious to the outside viewer.
I should add that this is another great reason to have a non-profit system or a co-op. I would never inflate my numbers (not that I can, because a separate person does registrations) because it would harm my community and if my community fails, I have nowhere immediately to teach. It pays me to be honest.
Also, I want to reiterate how this is a forum where people can say what is on their mind without being judged (except those who ask and then moan because we answer them truthfully...  ... ...  And you may or may not know who you are...) so we can think out loud, as it were. I very much understood this question to be in that category - a sort of "ok, this is what I saw, help me mull it over, friends." Some of us would have come to an immediate decision on how we would personally handle the situation, some would have thought a moment and then carried on in whatever way the deemed fit and some would have to talk it over before they could come to peace with it. I am so grateful to this group for being that place. Not everyone else in my world would understand the problem in the way another yoga person would. And sometimes the other yoga people we know are the source of the dilemma. So it is wonderful that you can be here as that resource for us all.
Much gratitude - it IS Thanksgiving here, after all  | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | Man....this place is great! My eyes watered on that one Tourist.
Yes, it is Thanksgiving everyday!!
Mish | |
| | |
| Does anyone find it odd to care about their students yoga instruction and their budget but not seem to care about the ethics modeled for them as a yogi by writing numbers that aren't there? Sure maybe they never find out. But that is not the point. Maybe one does. Maybe they all do. It's still modeled behavior.
I think it's one thing to say "I'm still working on this. It bugs me to do it, I'm conflicted, but I do it for this reason". It's another thing, I think, to rationalize it being okay and lay the rationale on the shoulders of the students practice.
I could easily say that my Fitness Director should get off her rear and come look at every class and write the numbers down herself (of course she's teaching umteen classes a day so that's not really possible). But she trusts her staff to provide an accurate record of class attendance. It's a very simple request to make of the teacher and it's not unreasonable to expect a YOGA teacher to do this with a higher sense of responsibility (or truth) than a Tai Bo teacher (not that Tai Bo teachers aren't ethical).
I am sure Mish that your "friend" rationalizes her inflating. But frankly this writing an untrue number and saying it's for the students (or for her growth as a teacher for that matter) is a certain level of Avidya (one of the five Kleshas) as it mistakes the Impure for the Pure.
But again it's a personal choice about how you live yoga. Some teachers do not. Others pick and choose. And still others are in process.
Edited by purnayoga 2006-10-09 6:06 PM
| |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | I'm definitely conflicted Gordon. I hope this is part of my transformation and self reflection process????
I hope.....
Mish
Edited by mishoga 2006-10-09 6:08 PM
| |
| | |
| hmm. lying is generally problematic, but it sometimes serves a purpose.
for example, lying to keep jews from going into nazi hands. while this seems like an extreme statement in regards to simply recording numbers, the underlying idea is that an individual is lying to protect another's interest from an unreliable authority who would arbitrarily harm the other in some way.
while i admit i'm not protecting my clients from certain death or abuse, i am protecting their interests financially (which is a survival issue) and educationally (the yoga that they want). i figure that a small lie such as the number 3--which doesn't give me or the gym any advantage--is appropriate. | |
| | |
| Zbrid,
I am truely shocked. Your comparision between the lying to stop genocide of jews and inflating your class numbers is poor taste. In addition is not an accurate comparsion. Saving peoples lives is MUCH different then saving your job because you can't put nunbers on the board. You can't compare to the two.
If you need to inflate your class numbers, you are not doing your job. There is no excuse, period.
I used to worked exclusively in the fitness industry and never needed to inflate numbers to keep a class. If the class was not doing well, I would give it up and get another.
In gym, there is no place easier to fill a class. You don't need to do any marketing, the business is already there. All you need to do is teach well. I you can't build it, then either your class is at the wrong time or you are the wrong instructor.
| |
| | |
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | zoebird - 2006-10-10 10:06 AM
for example, lying to keep jews from going into nazi hands. while this seems like an extreme statement in regards to simply recording numbers, the underlying idea is that an individual is lying to protect another's interest from an unreliable authority who would arbitrarily harm the other in some way.
while i admit i'm not protecting my clients from certain death or abuse, i am protecting their interests financially (which is a survival issue) and educationally (the yoga that they want). i figure that a small lie such as the number 3--which doesn't give me or the gym any advantage--is appropriate.
Time to invoke Godwin's Law! (Although I would have thought that the discussion could have made it at least a couple more pages.)
And while lying definitely doesn't give the gym any advantage (in fact, it prohibits them from possibly programming a class which might meet more members' needs), I have to disagree that the small lie in question doesn't give you any advantage- it does; it allows you to keep the class.
How is it "arbitrary harm" for the gym to cancel a class with consistently low numbers in order to add one that might draw more people? | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | Yogabrian and Jackiecat, I agree with you both, probably because I also have years experience working in gyms and know the dynamics of a good class format that engages and motivates.
If you are connecting with your students, your numbers will reflect that. Not that I'm saying there isn't low attendance at certain times of the year.
I guess I just don't like lying. I'm married to a man of the law (most people lie) and those attitudes really are reflective of a person. And you know what, in a court of law, you lie, you can't be trusted. There is always a reason for lying. You must always ask yourself when thinking about not telling the truth "why am I going to lie". And with each answer that comes to mind, ask why again until you get to the complete truth in your head.
I'm not saying anyone here is any less of a person, so please "NO ONE" should take this personal! These are my personal views. It does bother me more that she is a yogini but any person would annoy me who lies.
Mish
Hey Daniela, love your avatar pic. Whatz happenin girlie?
Edited by mishoga 2006-10-10 12:10 PM
| |
| | |
| I was raised by parents of the law so I feel the same way about lying as you do, Mish. Knowing you and the energy you have, which is dynamic and engaging -- I would say that you have nothing to worry about in terms of retaining the students.. But like I said in my earlier post, this teacher may have an aggenda - and that is to acquire more classes/get more work. I might also add that here in downstate New York there is a trend in some gyms (but not all) to cut back on the pay per class teachers and just hire a few full-time salaried teachers. Full-time salaried = benefits... They put the full-timers in a region and they work full-time hours bouncing around from gym to gym teaching spin, yoga, etc. Then on the weekends they send their staff for more training so that they can teach other fitness classes... It can also be like what people said earlier in this thread - that she is doing it just to save the class so it's not taken away.. None of us know... But what I do know is the power of karma and agree with most who have posted - that karma will work its way.. | |
| | |
| mishoga - 2006-10-10 11:55 AM
I guess I just don't like lying. I'm married to a man of the law (most people lie) and those attitudes really are reflective of a person.
Hmm... I was just thinking of a time when truthfulness can be used against you.
When you are pulled over, most police officers start the conversation with "Do you know why I pulled you over?" I really don't believe there's a good answer to this question. Usually I want to say "Yes office, you're here to collect revenue for a corrupt and inefficent government agency determined to preventing it's citizen's from exercising any amount of freedom or personal responsibility." It just seems to start the whole thing off wrong.
Serious, what do they expect you to say? Anything that you DO say can be used later as an admission of guilt. In addition, most people are violating a number of different laws at any particular time, so any claims of innocence are flawed under the law. Finally, this question is really a bit of a gimme for the police. They're looking for you to make their jobs easier by admitting to something. It's a lazy sort of power play by the police. It's their job to determine and prove that you were doing something wrong, not the otherway around.
Another good example of when people don't expect the truth is when they say "How are you?" Believe me, I've tried over the years, and most people just don't want to hear anything but "fine".
Finally, nobody seems to be taking into account things like difficulty of the class involved. If you're teaching a very easy, low level class (like most of the ones on Brian's schedule), you're going to find it much easier to fill than one that's teaching the third series, and demands Olympic level performances.
Time slot can also be important, there are a number of really good classes at the local studio that I don't take because they conflict in one way or another with the rest of my schedule. If you're not teaching an evening class it can be very difficult to fill the class, no matter how good you are. | |
| | |
| "Finally, nobody seems to be taking into account things like difficulty of the class involved. If you're teaching a very easy, low level class (like most of the ones on Brian's schedule), you're going to find it much easier to fill than one that's teaching the third series, and demands Olympic level performances.
Time slot can also be important, there are a number of really good classes at the local studio that I don't take because they conflict in one way or another with the rest of my schedule. If you're not teaching an evening class it can be very difficult to fill the class, no matter how good you are."
Greenjello
I disagee, if you are good at what you do, it will build regardless of class level or time. I know many teachers who have the worst time and teach advanced classes and the fill their classes up.
Do you teach many "high level" classes? | |
| | |
| When I tell people I'm a yoga teacher, I don't want them rolling their eyes and dismissing it as not a real job.<<
I just joined this discussion and have only read as far as Bruce's 1st response to the OP but have to comment on above.
I emailed a new teacher and when he responded, he signed "Jack Sprat, Yogi". For some reason that struck me as a great idea - and one that IMO "legitimizes" the proffession.
back to reading
| |
| | |
| yogabrian - 2006-10-10 1:25 PM
I disagee, if you are good at what you do, it will build regardless of class level or time. I know many teachers who have the worst time and teach advanced classes and the fill their classes up.
Sure things will build, but your own schedule clearly shows that there is a stronger demand for classes with lower requirements. Right now you have 1 advanced class, and 25 beginner classes. From what I can tell from your descriptions, even the advanced class is not the intense. I'd also guess from your descriptions that you're having trouble filling even those classes.
Regardless, it's just common sense that as the difficulty of the class increases, the number of people who can meet the requirements will decrease. | |
| | |
| Mish,
I'm curious, what does Officer Mish (aka, your husband) say? | |
| | |
| yogabrian - 2006-10-10 11:25 AMI am truely shocked. Your comparision between the lying to stop genocide of jews and inflating your class numbers is poor taste. In addition is not an accurate comparsion. Saving peoples lives is MUCH different then saving your job because you can't put nunbers on the board. You can't compare to the two.
It's a difference in degee, though, not in kind. poor taste or no, the point is the same: lying sometimes is appropriate; it's all fact-based. And, i admitted in the original post that i was not protecting anyone from genocide.
also, as i stated previously, i'm not doing it to 'save my job.' read the facts i presented; they are important.
If you need to inflate your class numbers, you are not doing your job. There is no excuse, period.
I used to worked exclusively in the fitness industry and never needed to inflate numbers to keep a class. If the class was not doing well, I would give it up and get another.
In gym, there is no place easier to fill a class. You don't need to do any marketing, the business is already there. All you need to do is teach well. I you can't build it, then either your class is at the wrong time or you are the wrong instructor.
absolutism is disturbing.
i have held this position at this gym for the past 6 years. my classes are the largest group fitness classes in the gym for all other types of classes--including other styles of yoga taught there. i am doing my job. | |
| | |
| And while lying definitely doesn't give the gym any advantage (in fact, it prohibits them from possibly programming a class which might meet more members' needs), I have to disagree that the small lie in question doesn't give you any advantage- it does; it allows you to keep the class.
How is it "arbitrary harm" for the gym to cancel a class with consistently low numbers in order to add one that might draw more people?
well, it does allow me to keep the class--but i'm willing to move it to other time slots, or leave altogether, but again, this is what the clients want. and they will defend it to the gym owner. they've been doing this class at roughly these times for over 6 years many of them. in that time, there's usually some yearly hullaballoo about changing it, getting rid of it, moving it. Some of my students design their lives around this schedule, so a quick change doesn't easily work for them--and it would require rebuilding the class.
my time sheets typically go (three classes a week, week to week) something like this: 8 students, 10 students, 9 students, 11, 12, 8, 3,* 3,* 3,* 8, 9, 9, 11, 12, 15**, 8, 8, 9, 10, 11, 8, etc.
*inflated number because only two were present; **unusual number because we rarely get so many in class. most classes at the gym are between 4 and 6 participants. Typically, i'll have one week of classes with low numbers--and if the boss is noticing (which is rare), he'll sweep in and try to cancel the class, even though the numbers went right back up to consistantly large shortly thereafter.
it's pretty arbitrary, wouldn't you say? | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | My hub is pretty much cut and dry. Either inform managment or let it go......unless it happens again.
Mish | |
| | |
| probably because I also have years experience working in gyms and know the dynamics of a good class format that engages and motivates.
If you are connecting with your students, your numbers will reflect that. Not that I'm saying there isn't low attendance at certain times of the year.
i suppose my 'years' of experience don't count? in every gym where i work--other than the y, which is a room-size issue--my yoga classes are consistantly the largest compared to other yoga classes and my classes are either the same size as or consistantly larger than other forms of fitness classes. Apparently, i do know how to do it.
i don't like lying either, but at this one gym, a couple of times a year, i inflate the numbers to avoid arbitrary process of this one gym owner. | |
| | |
| personally, i let it go. i guess the reason is because the whole recording-numbers thing is meaningless to me.
there are a lot of factors at play and numbers on a page aren't always a good reflection of what is really going on. in fact, i think it's one of the worst measures of whether or not a class is 'good' or 'appropriate' for the gym.
sometimes, the teacher is great, but it's nto a good 'gel' for that gym. other times, the students struggle with consistancy through no real fault of the gym's or the teacher's (things like school schedules, illness of self or family member, jobs that require travel, etc). a lot of these things have nothing to do with numbers themselves.
i find that the more successful measures are based on direct observation. management should observe classes, client interaction, and ask for direct client feedback through questionaires. these will indicate what is working and *how* it is working. this demonstrates the 'gym culture' and the gym can utilize that information to market based on that emerging culture and thus increase their clientele.
one of the reasons why classes at the gym that i'm talking about here are small (and they are small comparatively) is because of the lack of quality child care. Early on, the gym had excellent child care. the child care was so popular, that many women would work out twice a day at the gym--taking fitness classes in the mornings and doing weights/etc with husbands/fathers in the evenings. Child care built the gym, and thus the fitness classes. my classes--during that time--easily maxed out at 25, still the largest at the gym at the time (most other classes had 10-15).
then child care when to heck in a handbasket. people left the gym in droves because of the poor quality of the child care. class sizes--across the board--plummeted. only women who had older children (not in need of day care) or other arrangements would continue to come to classes. Anyone who didn't need day care was unaffected by this situation personally--and stayed around.
of course, the numbers dropped considerably. when management had a meeting about increasing numbers, i pointed out that the issue i *heard* most about was not the fitness classes and their quality--they were unchanged--but rather the quality of the day care facilities. Management has yet to resolve this issue (some three years later), and still focuses it on the teachers saying that it's somehow our fault, trying to get us to utilize various marketing gimmicks, etc.
ultimately, the numbers tell us very little. They do tell us that perhaps something isn't resonating with clients or that perhaps the time slot isn't good or appropriate. but often, it's something else entirely that has nothing to do with numbers at all. And if the gym would take the time to figure *that* out, rather than focusing on numbers that the teacher records (that is, do quarterly assessments asking the clients for input via questionaires, etc, or even casual interviews while they're on treadmills)--then the whole process would be easier.
and, we wouldn't worry about these things, because itwould be based on evaluation or quality, not quantitiy. | |
| | |
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 517
Location: New Jersey | I personally would let it go, but that is mainly because I don't normally open my mouth about things, even when I probably should. If I weren't so timid about things, I might say something to the instructor first, if I noticed that she made it a practice to constantly lie about her numbers. If it were a situation like Zoebird's, I would agree that fudging numbers once in awhile was worth it to avoid drama with a pain in the rear boss, and to not disappoint loyal students. Samantha | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| We don't schedule classes for the times we know the numbers will be very low. I don't teach Saturdays on long weekends, for example. Yes, it messes with the flow of week to week classes and yes, some people will miss out on a class they want (or think they want - we have tried scheduling over those times because of "demand" but they stay away in droves) but it gives them a chance to develop a home practice.  | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be |
i suppose my 'years' of experience don't count? in every gym where i work--other than the y, which is a room-size issue--my yoga classes are consistantly the largest compared to other yoga classes and my classes are either the same size as or consistantly larger than other forms of fitness classes. Apparently, i do know how to do it.
i don't like lying either, but at this one gym, a couple of times a year, i inflate the numbers to avoid arbitrary process of this one gym owner.
Your experience does count. I was not directing my comments to any particular person. You know I dig and respect you Zoe.
Peace
Mishy
Edited by mishoga 2006-10-11 2:05 PM
| |
| | |
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | zoebird - 2006-10-10 5:01 PM
my time sheets typically go (three classes a week, week to week) something like this: 8 students, 10 students, 9 students, 11, 12, 8, 3,* 3,* 3,* 8, 9, 9, 11, 12, 15**, 8, 8, 9, 10, 11, 8, etc.
*inflated number because only two were present; **unusual number because we rarely get so many in class. most classes at the gym are between 4 and 6 participants. Typically, i'll have one week of classes with low numbers--and if the boss is noticing (which is rare), he'll sweep in and try to cancel the class, even though the numbers went right back up to consistantly large shortly thereafter.
it's pretty arbitrary, wouldn't you say?
Thanks for further explaining. I do agree with you that it is arbitrary given that your average number in class, over a period of time, is 8-10.
It sounds like the manager/owner is way out of touch re the group fitness program. That sux! | |
| | |
| mish:
i do know.
samatha, jackie:
thanks. i thought i got that across in the first place, but apparently not. | |
| | |
| oh, and tourist--it's next to impossible to get a gym to skip or reschedule a class simply because the students won't be there. I tried to do that with my classes on long weekends, or on that crazy wednesday nite when ALL four school districts in the area have their pagents and all of the parents are off doing pagent nite. but they never listen. LOL
and so i have to write "3" down. | |
| |
|
Opinion?????