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| One of my yoga instructors offers thai yoga massage and I discussed taking a session with her... However, she suggested that she does not recommend doing yoga on the same day as you get a thai yoga massage, as it might be "too much"... I'm having a difficult time accepting to sacrifice one of my treasured yoga sessions for a passive massage session... So perhaps I'm looking for a second opinion. If, for example, I have the massage early and attend a yoga class about 5 or 6 hours later (provided of course that I listen to my body and it feels like it can do it), would that be alright?
I guess the real problem is that I'm not "sold" yet on the concept of yoga massage, so I don't like the idea of skipping something that I already know makes me feel great (and my day does not feel complete without) in order to try this. Is there some some beneficial effect on regular (Ashtanga/Hatha) yoga practice that can be reaped from having a thai yoga massage?
I would appreciate any stories of personal experience or expertise to help encourage me to try this. Thanks, sp | |
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| One more thing. I understand that thai yoga massage involves being moved into yoga poses, rather than moving yourself into those poses with your muscles, and therefore allows for deeper stretches and such. But the word massage is throwing me off. Does it also involve the usual rubbing and kneading that is part of traditional massage forms? I think my back could use a good rub after all those miserable attempts at salabhasana! sp | |
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Location: Upstate NY | Om Namah Sivaya
SP,
I would not consider a TYM "passive" it is actually a pretty intense workout for the indivudual giving the massage and the person recieving the massage has been known to feel the effects several days afterwards compared to traditional western massage which is a few hours......
Om Shanti,
Ravi | |
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| Pardon my misconception, I really don't have much of a clue what I'm getting myself into here. So basically, Ravi, you're saying that you also would not suggest yoga on the same day? sp | |
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Location: Upstate NY | I would suggest atleast for your first TYM to take a day of rest and see how you react to the massage............ trust me there will be nothing wrong with one day of rest........... your practice will still be there the following day..... | |
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Expert Yogi
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| sp - I don't like to go to class any day I have body work done. It feels "wrong" and i need to let the work settle into my body. Of course, I would go to massage etc after 3 pm and yoga class at night, so not much time to assimilate. This is just me - actually, me and a few friends. Mr. Tourist thinks I am nuts.  Not just about this, either!  | |
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| Thanks for your advice folks, I'll arrange an appointment either Friday this week or the following one. And I won't do any yoga that day, promise. I'll report my experience here, methinks.
sp | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Don't rule out the idea of practicing before your massage. That is actually a really good idea to get your body and mind warmed up  enjoy! | |
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| Interesting... I had asked if I could practice beforehand, and she told me that she recommended no practice at all that day. But it did seem to me like a good idea and a good form of warm-up. Perhaps I will just do a few sun salutations on my own in the morning before I go, instead of a full hour and a half class...
sp | |
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| Hi slowpie,
My advice is if you trust your teacher, then follow her advice.
If you don't trust your teacher, then find one you do trust and study under them.
Jonathon | |
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| Excellent advice, Jonnie. I think I do indeed need to learn to trust her, which is not always easy for an eternal skeptic like myself  . Part of my problem is that I am completely unfamiliar with Thai Yoga Massage, which is all the more reason to trust her judgement, no doubt. Which is what I've decided to do, after all this talk. Thanks, sp | |
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| Hi slowpie :D
I hope you post what the experience was like for you. I've never done it, and would love to hear details... (whoops, after careful rereading of the thread, I see you already said you'd do that... well, I want to say hi anyway : ))
Edited by ellen 2007-01-13 4:00 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| sp - I would be really curious to know why no practice before the treatment would be suggested. I don't see a rationale behind that. | |
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| Hi Ellen, I'll report back as I promised... have yet to make my appointment, but I hope it's this week.
As to why she recommended not doing yoga beforehand, tourist, well... From what I gathered, she feels that the stimulation and stretch experienced in the massage might be too intense if it is added on top of a prior workout. I'll admit that what she said didn't really convince me of much in that regard, so I think I'll ask her again to explain the rationale behind that when I book my appointment. As I'm planning on going on a Friday, it would be in lieu of a hatha yoga session (which she teaches) that I find much less difficult than the other 4 sessions I go to (Ashtanga at various levels of difficulty, whatever fits in my schedule). I appreciate the Hatha class because it gives me a mid-week "breather" of sorts, resting up my body a bit after two hard-core sessions and before two other much more demanding sessions - plus, the more leisurely pace and looser structure gives me time to focus more on my alignment... My point is that this hatha yoga session is one where I purposefully go less deeply into the poses, and therefore experience less intense stretch, so that I can make micro-adjustments to my posture. And so, it would seem to me like following up this particular class with the TYM would not be such a bad idea. Anyways, I'll discuss it with her further, and as jonnie recommended, I'll accept and trust what she tells me.
I should note that her words were to the effect that she doesn't recommend yoga (before or after) on the same day the *first* time you get a TYM... So perhaps her caution is with regards to not doing yoga until you have experienced this massage and know how it affects your body. So maybe, for some folks, it's not a problem to practice before, or after, or both even, but she seemed to think that it was best to try it first on its own. One good point that just dawned on me: if I really want to feel the benefits of this massage, I'd be best to do it in "isolation" from other activities that affect my body and spirit... If I do yoga as well, I might not be certain what the "cause" of the effects was, as there would have been two "independant variables" at work. This way, whatever I will feel after the massage, I'll know that it was the direct cause of it...
sp
ps: gosh, I'm so long-winded... sorry! | |
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| I've not experienced this form of massage but if it's anything like shiatsu or a sports massage, then I can well understand why you'd be advised not to do any other physical activity the same day. Whist the muscle movement is being done to you rather than by you, it is still intense and can leave you feeling like you've had a work out! In fact, my last sports' massage left my shoulders feeling like I'd been beaten with a rolling pin the next day (no pain no gain with years of keyboard work haveing knotted my shoulders and rotator cuffs solid).
My sports physio also recommends that you drink lots of water for 48 hours after a thereputic massage in order to assist the body in removing any toxins released by the massage (e.g. sports massage has an aim to break up scar tissue that's restricting muscle movement).
Fee | |
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| I'd either take a break from yoga on the day I receive Thai massage or just do restorative yoga. Or chant and meditate. Be still and enjoy the effects of Thai massage.
I know in regards to acupuncture, in a perfect world, the patient could go home and rest for at least 2 hours and not do intense (anything other than restorative yoga) yoga. No running, no lifting weights, no sex...but, we don't live in a perfect world and the professional athlete must continue practicing and the blackjack dealer must go to work and the busy mom must pick up her kids and take them to karate practice....
Just remember, usually less is more. OM...less is more...Om....less is more.... | |
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| Orbilia, I hope I do feel like I've had a bit of a work out, but I'd prefer if it didn't involve pain... I've learnt through yoga that I don't need pain to have gain - or more to the point, if there is pain, there probably won't be any gain. I'm expecting some physical feelings, and hopefully some of that "good ache" that comes from having worked your muscles to the point of exhaustion but not injury...
Thanks for the tip about water, I have been drinking a whole lot more since I began regular practice (prior to that, I was drinking so little that I almost morphed into a camel ), but I wouldn't have thought to increase my intake a bit to aid in the release of those toxins. TYM is said to do a lot for releasing those toxins, so I'm sure your advice is to the point.
sp | |
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| Fifi, do you think that ideally, I should spend the entire day at rest, not even going to work? I have to work in the evening, maybe 5 hours after the end of the massage, and my job is physically quite demanding... I work as a waitress, so I'll spend hours on my feet, hauling around heavy loads of plates and stuff... Skipping work might be possible, or maybe instead scheduling the massage on a day I don't work. I understand that less is more, but maybe a full day's rest might be too much?
sp | |
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| Slowpie,
when my sports physio works my shoulders and rotator cuffs, there's some pain when he uses certain pressure points to encourage my nerves to tell my muscles to relax. Before he started those on the top of my shoulder, into my neck were so tight that afterward, they sat an inch lower than before!! Or, rather, this is good pain, it just doesn't feel like it at the time! Similarly, when my osteopath works my back, just below the neck, it's uncomfortable but aches like the very devil later. Give it a couple of days, and everything feels wonderful, honest :-) ! As time's gone on, there's been a permanant improvement so each session is less intense than the one before. That said, my right rotator cuff still has less rotation than I know it could have. I do exercises set me by the sports physio on top of the yoga so things are improving slowly. I do have 20 odd years of working with a keyboard to undo however 
Fee
slowpie6 - 2007-01-16 2:22 PM
Orbilia, I hope I do feel like I've had a bit of a work out, but I'd prefer if it didn't involve pain... I've learnt through yoga that I don't need pain to have gain - or more to the point, if there is pain, there probably won't be any gain.
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Expert Yogi
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Slowpie,
You should rest at least 2-3 hours after any massage, body work or acupuncture. It allows the body time to rebalance and organize. It's like doing Savasana at the end of yoga asana practice. So, if you can't rest all day, at least rest 2-3 hours completely, then go to work. A full day's rest is best, especially with having a job like you described. Good luck trying to find your happy-medium, | |
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| Well, I just called to try and book my appointment for this Friday. I don't know whether it will be convenient for my teacher yet, I'll find out tomorrow in class. But it's too late to take off of work now, so the happy medium will have to be a few hours of rest after the session. I guess I will find out whether next time it would be better to schedule a full day's rest. I've never had any form of body work done, so this is all new to me. I just secretly hope that I don't like it too much, because it could get expensive! I think my teacher's rates are fair though, it's not like I'm being robbed.
Generally speaking, I'm not the "resting" type, and it took me some time to grasp the importance of Savasana. I get it now, mind you. Another form of rest I've recently found to be beneficial is the importance of taking a day or two away from practice. It's almost as though during those off days, my body "assimilates" what it has been taught, and suddenly, the next time I practice, it all seems clearer and less "forced". I guess it's similar to when you are studying for a test and you book the last day before the exam for *not* thinking about it or studying... I always perform better when I do that. And I feel less stress.
sp | |
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| Oops, no luck on this Friday. Officially reserved my spot for the following Friday though. | |
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| Hi, I've had several Thai massage sessions, and believe it or not, each one has been very different regardless of how I felt and what I did physically that day. Thai works not only the physical body, but also the energetic body. No, let me rephrase that: it works the energetic body just as much as the physical body, if not even more. Have you ever had any sort of bodywork treatment? Any energy releases? If not, then you really have no frame of reference as to how this type of "massage" might affect you, and so of course I understand your skepticism toward skipping a yoga class. Imagine having a really good cry that had been building up in your system for weeks. You're emotionally exhausted afterward, right? Physically so as well, for sure. You probably COULD go take a yoga class afterward, but would you really WANT to? Now I'm not saying that having a Thai massage will make you cry (though maybe it might, who knows), but it could cause the same sort of all-levels exhaustion for you (physical, emotion, energetic, you name it). Am I making any sense here? I hope so. I guess the best thing to say is go in with an open mind and allow whatever happens to happen. Observe rather than judge. And if you don't usually get a strong energetic response to asana practice, then it would probably be OK to do a light to medium practice several hours beforehand. Though you never know... One more thing... not only the recipient of the massage reacts to the energy being released during the massage, but also the person giving the massage. I remember feeling very agitated several hours after a Thai session (not my first, though), almost angry but with really no reason for it. When I saw co-owner of the studio who performed the massage on me the next day, he said he was feeling very out of sorts for several hours after as well. Energy is as energy does, I guess. OM | |
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| Wow, that's very interesting OM, I admit I have no clue what to expect out of this session. I mentioned that I've never had any body work done, and nothing that involved energy release or whatever. I've had "home" massages but my boyfriend is a layman and doesn't have any researched skills in the practice. Sometimes he hits the right spot and the release is amazing, but more often than not, it feels good but not especially...restorative, healing, calming, energy releasing or whatever else a massage can be. So this is all unchartered territory, and I'm more anxious than ever to experience it. I think I'm going into it with an open mind, and I don't think I'm skeptical any more either. I'm not going to practice that day, and just go with the flow of the massage and see how it affects me. But I'll admit a new concern from reading about your "angry" experience... I think one of the reasons that I have never had any body work done is that I always conceived of it as extremely intimate and, being a rather private person, I didn't think it would make me comfortable. The idea of somehow "sharing" my private energies (whatever they may be) with my teacher through this massage is a bit off-putting. Thankfully, though, I consider her to be a very empathic, warm, and comforting person, so if I can't let go with her, I'd never be able to do it with anybody. It would be a shame though if my hesitation or retiscence to "let it all out" (gosh, I really don't think there is any way that I could break down crying, I simply could not deal with being so emotionally exposed!) kept me from experiencing all the possible benefits of TYM.
sp | |
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| Just to clarify, I wasn't angry during the massage, just several hours later, a residual effect of the treatment, I guess you could say. And maybe I'm more of an extreme example of how someone could react, because I have energy releases all the time, regardless of wanting them to happen (one practioner I went to recently said I would've been burned at the stake had this been colonial times, too funny). But don't be put off to the experience, odds are you'll have a most pleasant experience, at most it'll just be a bit tiring in a way you might not be used to. I was just trying to explain why the other posters were cautioning you not to plan to practice after your treatment, and maybe also not before as well. Also, I didn't cry during the massage, in case I wasn't clear there either. I was talking about a similar sort of after-effect feeling, the huge sense of relief after once you've had a big cry, the associated sadness notwithstanding. You know, it's so hard to explain in words something that has nothing to do with the discerning mind. We go through life evaluating things with our minds (we like, we don't like) and with our bodies (it feels good, it doesn't feel good), and here we're talking about something that really doesn't apply to either of those (uh oh, I keep stepping into woo-woo territory, I'm sorry, can't help it ). Here's another way to consider it (see, you've got to keep presenting ways that the mind knows how to associate experiences in order to understand them, that's the nature of how the mind works): you've had adjustments in savasana, right? Thai is pretty much one big long savasana adjustment session (which of course is finished with a traditional savasana, did you know that?). My personal tendency is to get all these shakes and tremors when I first lay down for savanasa even in a traditional asana class, since like I said, I've got a lot of energy that likes to move through me (lucky me). If that's not your tendency, then I wouldn't worry about any sort of emotional or energetic infringement happening to you by your teacher. It's sort of interesting to me that you took it as stepping on your own personal boundaries with experiencing an energy release with someone else. Me, I always just worry about freaking the other person out (physical therapist, massage therapist, chiropractor, etc.) when they first have me lay down on my back and I start to have all these tremors and twitches take over me (kind of like how a dog shakes itself to get rid of being wet, if you can picture that). Good thing in Thai energy release is really what it's all about, which is why they always start at the feet to ground you. LOL, I feel like I'm making it worse every time I write something else to assuage you. Just don't worry and enjoy it, and I'll go shut up now OM | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Another perspective - I have had tons o' deep body work and never had an emotional response. I do feel "beat up" sometimes and desperately need to rest, but nothing worse than that. And I have had plenty o' traumas in my life that could be responsible for things that needed to be "released." OTOH, I have had asana classes that hit my laugh button from time to time | |
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| Ah, OM, don't worry about freaking me out, anyways, I'm sure to go and nothing will stop me now. My appointment is booked and I'm really excited about it. The whole thing about "sharing energies" with another person, and my hesitation about that, probably has a lot to do with my bad habit of bottling up emotions, negative ones especially. I've been handling a good dose of anxiety lately too, having to do with my eternal procrastination towards finishing my university studies, and I've been dealing with that by suppressing it because actually facing it would mean I would have to get some work done... So there may well be an energy release of some sort, provided I am capable of letting it go and letting it out...
I'm not sure that I've ever really had an energy release during practice either, but maybe. I have on a few occasions experienced a sort of full body "ripple", coming from my core and emanating outwards to the extremities. Sort of like a shiver, but not. It felt like this pulse travelling through my entire body, maybe coursing through my nerves and kind of like exiting through my skin, tickling me slightly. It felt great. In fact, in trying to describe it now, I just had that feeling again. It happened to me in savasana (in which I have never had adjustments, by the way... didn't think they did that).
In my class today, my teacher who is the one that will give me the TYM attended as a student. Prior to class, she did this thing for a friend of hers, don't know if they were just messing around or if it's something that is sometimes part of TYM. I don't know how they got into that position, but she was lying on her back and supporting the other student with her feet at her sacrum (I think) and her hands on her shoulders, with the other student in a position that ressembled urdhva dhanurasana, but off the ground, floating in the air. Anyways, it seemed amazing, and must have felt fantastic.
Ack! Can't wait til Friday! I'm totally psyched about this!
sp
Edited by slowpie6 2007-01-20 1:50 PM
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| slowpie6 - 2007-01-20 1:48 PM It happened to me in savasana (in which I have never had adjustments, by the way... didn't think they did that). In our teacher training we're learning to give these adjustments, such as grounding the feet and ankles inward and outward, like you'll be experiencing once you have your Thai massage (we did an intro workshop on Thai in our training as well; maybe I'll go do the complete certification for that some day as well). The legs can be picked up about 12 inches off the floor and gently pulled away from the body, very nice to release the lower back and sacrum. We also press down on the knees, hips and shoulders (not all at once, obviously) to continue to ground. Then there's the massage of the head and neck: lengthening the head away from the torso, massaging the cranial bones behind the ears, on the face, etc., gently rubbing the third eye point on the forehead, and (my favorite, which I do on my own sometimes when I need it) pressing in and up at the occiput, that indented space at the base of the skull. Major amounts of energy release with that one, feels like waves of water or something gushing out of the top of my head when I do that (I'm so weird, I know!). slowpie6 - 2007-01-20 1:48 PM I don't know how they got into that position, but she was lying on her back and supporting the other student with her feet at her sacrum (I think) and her hands on her shoulders, with the other student in a position that ressembled urdhva dhanurasana, but off the ground, floating in the air. Sounds like something out of the circus, cool! Where was the lifted person's arms, just hanging down? Definitely something I've never seen before, at least not in yoga class. I'm going to have to have my husband try that one with me later, just for fun (hope he doesn't drop me!).
Edited by OrangeMat 2007-01-20 4:51 PM
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| Those adjustments all sound very interesting OM, and relaxing too. In my classes, we are verbally instructed to do various things (stretch out the legs, tense the muscles and then release, letting the feet fall out to the sides, for example) in savasana, but we are not given any actual adjustments. I'm guessing I'll get to experience some of that in my massage next week (only 5 days to go, yippee!!).
As for the floating urdhva dhanurasana, the student just let her legs and arms dangle downwards towards the ground, stretched out by gravity. I overheard her say that the feeling was similar to what you might feel when you are suspended upside down by the feet... Speaking of that, my father has purchased this contraption that is designed specifically for hanging upside down like that, and I wanted to try it while I visited for the holidays, but unfortunately I was quite ill so didn't get around to it. I've always wished I could do that, I imagine it must feel amazing for the spine to be drawn the other way for a change... and although I practice handstand and headstand, which I guess has a similar effect, I'm not sure it would be the same to actually be able to hang while letting all your muscles release their tension. Anyways, I was also thinking of asking my man to be the support for me in that pose, I'm fairly certain he vouldn't drop me, he's strong as an ox, but I think he'd want nothing to do with it. And I think he wouldn't really be comfortable for long with his back on the hard floor, he's not used to that. But it doesn't hurt to ask, right? Any luck on getting your husband to do this for you?
sp | |
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| I actually had forgotten about that "circus trick" pose (like a bear spinning a ball with its hind legs, can you see it?) until now, I have to admit. I just mentioned it to him, and he really had no interest in trying (too caught up in the paperwork he brought home with him from work). Oh well, maybe another time... | |
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| Yoopie!! My TYM is tomorrow. When I promised my teacher that I would heed her advice and skip class before the TYM, she said that if I felt up to it later on, I could do some yoga, but not before... The point is moot because I will be working later in the day, but I thought it might be of interest to some of you. Still finding it odd that before would be contraindicated. But then again, I'll show up all stiff, with my muscles not warmed up, so that should help her identify my tight spots...
sp | |
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| Talk about timing... on the cover of this month's Yoga Journal magazine that came in the mail today: "Find Bliss With Thai Massage". It's about partner Thai massage, but still, hope you find your bliss tomorrow! OM | |
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| I sure hope I find my bliss too!!! And it couldn't possibly have been a better day for this. My back is all sore from having hand washed a bunch of clothes while bent over awkwardly over the sink. And my energy level is low because I had the most awful sleep last night after catching the cough that has been keeping my boyfriend up all week. So I'm not in such good shape for a demanding yoga workout (even though I would normally have attended a hatha session today, which is more manageable than ashtanga when you're feeling out of sorts).
Less than 2 hours to go now! I'll report back later.
sp | |
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Can't do both?