|
|
| Hi. I've been away for a while.
I've recovered from some old racewalking injuries and have been spending most of my mental and emotional energies to reviving my walking.
Also, for some reason, my motivation toward yoga has lessened once I took yoga-fit teacher training and my home practice has virtually vanished. I still attend 2-4 classes a week, and sub from time to time.
Here is the question: I've noticed that my teacher's poses have gotten progressively worse (e. g., her shin is NOT perpendicular to the floor in any of the Warriors, her hip is dropping big-time in pigeon, etc.
Do I have a responsibility to say anything to her, or is this one of those "keep your mouth closed" sorts of things?
regards
ollie
| |
| | |
| No, you should ask your teacher with a sincere request :
that you notice change in her form. Is there anything she wants to tell you about this, etc.
Before, asking you should give her meal with a respect and flowers with a smile.
And, do the same to your wife before you start the above operation!!!
| |
| | |
| Thanks Neel.  Being gentle has never been my strong suit. | |
| | |
| my student went through this with me.
i had stopped doing a particular group of postures that i really like, that i would often teach and demonstrate. he was honestly concerned as to why.
it was due to some discomforts that i had while doing it, and also what i was seeing in my students. when we traveled to my teacher, i asked for his assistance, he offered it, and i worked on it. my student helped me work on it (he is one of my teachers, that is, one of the teachers that i trained and now a teacher himself). and now i do not have that problem and now i teach it too.
it could be anything, but a concerned approach is a good one.
yesterday, my student noticed that my hamstrings are *very* tight and that i was fussy about it. LOL! | |
| | |
| That meas I escaped. You were very gentle to me in Austin. But, again, your wife and daugther were present. It seems they have good influence on you. How is your handstand coming up?
ollie - 2007-09-24 8:48 PM
Thanks Neel. Being gentle has never been my strong suit. | |
| | |
| The concept of yoga ,the idea of yoga,the understanding of what yoga is, is very much different now.especially in the west.Its not just about poses.
It is said in indian culture that submission of ego is very essential if you want to learn from the other.No teacher in the world ,in any department is perfect,he or she cannot know everything.But what a student must do is,try to learn what the teacher knows well. Its about being silent and listening.
| |
| | |
| The answer to your question Ollie depends upon the nature of the relationship you have with your teacher. | |
| | |
| Hey Ollie, so good to hear from you. I wondered where you been. Good luck with your situation.
Shelly | |
| | |
| Hi Ollie, sorry to hear about the drop-off since the YF training. Having gone through virtually the same thing, I totally understand. Hope you get your groove back, or maybe find a new one (which is what I did at that point). | |
| | |
| Thanks everyone. Neel: I haven't practiced very much, so I'll need to hold myself accountable. 
| |
| | |
| I would be kinda embarrassed.
I honestly try to teach only postures that I can do. However, I will teach a few ashtanga postures that I'm not always able to demonstrate. Usually I demo the modified.
It is a hard call to make.
| |
| | |
| i teach postures that i can't do.
often, students will bring in a picture, we'll experiment, and then i'll teach how to do it. i can usually "see" more things about the alignment in it then they can.
i also teach modified versions of poses i can't do, and then i'll teach those students who may be ready how to do the full version of the pose (since i intellectually know the next step).
i figure that most of my students will be 'better' than me. and it's true. most of them are. | |
| | |
| One of my first teachers was like that and she was wonderful. I never really thought about it until I started teaching.
| |
| | |
| i really want my students to go father than me, to be better than i am in every way. i want to be a stepping stone in this, you know?
i talk to them constantly about 'joining the dialogue' of yoga. when they ask me a question, i'll often ask it right back! typically, we know more than we think we know, and sometimes just having a dialogue about it makes everything clearer. | |
| | |
| zoebird - 2007-09-25 3:39 PM
i really want my students to go father than me, to be better than i am in every way. i want to be a stepping stone in this, you know?
Which is actually pretty rare. I was reading recently that the three attachments which are hardest to break of those between parent and child, lovers, and teacher and student. Often times teachers will hold back their students, at least partially subconsciously because they don't want to "lose" them.
i talk to them constantly about 'joining the dialogue' of yoga. when they ask me a question, i'll often ask it right back! typically, we know more than we think we know, and sometimes just having a dialogue about it makes everything clearer.
Yeah, I usually begin this little ritual with my favorite personal mantra "I don't know". It's amazing the sorts of doors you can open with this little beauty. | |
| | |
| Just my 2 cents, but I would not mention it. She either doesn't know her leg is not level, or she can't do it. If she doesn't know, then she will learn it in the proper setting, like a training or a yoga class. Or, one day, something will open up in her hip, or whatever, and she will find the pose. If she does know, and still teaches it, I think that's ok too. Even though my training says not to demo if you can't do it, I will demo and say, "this is not finished for me, I am working on opening my chest a little more" then I'll be cueing correct alignment. I think this only shows I'm human, and what's wrong with that? I am working, just like they are.
I think the best thing to do is to practice your yoga and let the teacher teach the best she can. If it bothers you to the point that you think she's not a good teacher, then it's probably best to find another teacher. If it's fine, just this one thing, then I'd let it go.
Have you played it out in your head if you were the teacher and a student commented to you that you were teaching something in non-perfect form? Only you know the relationship and how you'd approach her. If you reverse it, is it a good thing or a bad thing?
One more thing. I despise eagle balance pose. I don't like feeling all crossed and curled up. I much prefer something like dancer where I feel very open. So, I'll say, "I don't like eagle and I'm not very good at it. But I love you all, so I'm going to stand up here and look silly trying to teach it b/c I know some of you love to practice eagle."  | |
| | |
| Have you played it out in your head if you were the teacher and a student commented to you that you were teaching something in non-perfect form?
I prefer to be told if I am making a mistake because how I do the asanas are important to me.
Or, for example, when I am teaching mathematics, I don't mind it if a bright math student shows me an alternate (but correct) way to do a problem.
But I tend to react differently than most, so long as the person offering the suggestions knows what they are talking about. | |
| | |
| i really do think it depends upon the relationship.
i know that you, ollie, are also 'friends' with your teacher. it's not a criticism of her personally, nor are you saying she's a bad teacher. it may be that you're curious. looking at and aligning people is something 'new' for you since your training. prior to that, you might not have noticed even though the situation may have been the same.
i encourage students asking me questions about what i'm doing. i field a lot of questions about different alignment schools and different modifications. students come to me from all over, from many different backgrounds. some teachers emphasize alignment and some don't. of those who do, some follow different alignment schools. and even for those who do and are of the same alignment school, they may prefer different modifications that i do.
i should also say that i rarely demo. i describe the posture, use others as a demo, or if most of the people aren't 'getting' it, then i demo. i'll point out my alignment errors as well.
for example, i was teaching a sequence last nite after having eaten dinner. i need to eat before this class because of scheduling. i hardly demo in this class (which is ok, it's an intermediate-advanced class), but then they asked me to demo a sequence. i said "the alignment will be off because i just ate." and they're ok with that. the alignment was off. but, they got the idea--they knew the poses, they just wanted clarity on the transitions.
questions are always allowed in my classroom. anyone can ask anything. | |
| | |
| ollie - 2007-09-24 4:38 PM her shin is NOT perpendicular to the floor in any of the Warriors, her hip is dropping big-time in pigeon, etc. Ollie, going back to your original question, how is her shin misaligned? Knee past the ankle or knee not bent enough? And is it the same on both sides? Might just be she's got some injury or achiness she's taking care of, and doesn't want to draw attention to herself by pointing out she isn't going fully into some poses. Personally, if it were me as the teacher, and I knew I had some physical limitations (as I always do), I'd make it a point to point that fact out to the class, that I'm just not physically able to demonstrate the pose to its fullest expression at this time, so that they use my verbal cues to supplement my demonstration of those specific poses. I really doubt that she's just gotten "lazy" in her poses, and I would bet she is aware of her drop-off in form. I'd ask her about it, for sure, with the intent of expressing concern for her well-being, if I were comfortable enough with her to begin with (as I believe you are with your teacher, as you've said). | |
| | |
| you know, i tell my students a lot about the importance of modifictaions.
i would say that probably 98% of the postures that i do regularly are modified. there are very few that i do 100% correct all of the time, and without a modification of some sort.
i think that this is important to tell students. not necessarily to say for a specific posture, but rather to say for all postures. i find that for most students, this encourages them to modify, to find the right alignment for them without the spectrum of modifications available, rather than them striving for something that they can't get into yet, and that in the trying, they'll likely injure themselves.
i find that when they hear that "the teacher" who "looks awesome doing yoga" (which is what a student said about me on her blog) does 98% of postures modified in some way, then they feel comfortable modifying themselves, and they recognize that we're all working on it (like Kym said). | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
    
| As others have said, you might at some point feel ok saying "are you all right? You poses just don't look the same lately and I am concerned that you are not quite 100%" or words to that effect. | |
| | |
| Thanks for the replies.
Her shin: it is not perpendicular with the ground; the knee is well behind her foot (i. e., knee is not bent enough) I don't think that she is injured; I get the impression that she has gone away from being a student of yoga and has "gone to the dark side" (morphed into a fitness instructor who specializes in teaching yoga; my guess is that she doesn't really focus on her OWN practice).
Since we've grown further apart recently, I really don't know what her goals are, so I'll just keep my mouth shut and try my best to do the poses correctly. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Actually, I almost hestitated to not post to this thread because I don't want to piss anyone off. However, I'm feeling frisky today,
Ollie, its non of your business. Your teacher has a seperate practice and should be allowed to modify her practice to whatever she deems fit. We all have different days. We don't always perform the same, we are constantly evolving and should have the freedom to do so. If you say something to her, you are only going to disturb her inner peace and it may have an impact on her in a negative way. Besides, you should focus on yourself and not let your teachers practice be a "distraction" for you. Get rid of any judgement you may have and just observe whats going on.
I'll give you an example. My teacher is 60 years old. I've seen her go through many changes over the past few years. She had an accident that had surgery involved a couple of years ago. She's modified postures to heal that injury. I've watched her modify and completely recover. I've also watched her do headstands less than a month ago...it's incredible. I think that its a personal matter and your teacher needs her space to do her own practice. I'm sure she has her own guru's and teachers that she works with.
Traditionally, the teacher must be respected by the student. I believe this falls into that category. It's not our place to micro-manage everyone's practice.
Please take my words with great sincerity and this is not a personal attack.
Edited by Cyndi 2007-09-27 11:35 AM
| |
| | |
| Since we've grown further apart recently, I really don't know what her goals are, so I'll just keep my mouth shut and try my best to do the poses correctly
i think that this makes sense and is respectful of her and of your relationship.
cyndi:
i agree with you that we needn't micro-manage everyone's practice.
i also think we're talking about two different subjects. it is one thing to criticize or try to bring someone into "alignment" with what "I think it should be"--that is definitely micromanaging.
but i think it's another thing to sincerely question what is going on if it is different from one's experience, or if one is concerned about the teacher, or if one is taking it as an opportunity for self knowledge/learning.
in the case of your teacher, she is adapting her practice to her physical experience. i think that i might ask her specific questions about modifications--such as "why did you choose that modification?" or "how are you finding that helpful specifically?" so that i can learn from her experience and her process of healing. i think that this is respectful--because it acknowledges her practice as being sincere, dynamic, personal, etc, but it also provides those of us observing her with a great pattern to learn from.
this is why i bring up when and how i modify things for myself when teaching. it demonstrates to students the importance and value of modification, so that they feel encouraged to modify the postures to suit their own needs. and, it also creates a process of mutual respect. i often say to them "these are the modifications that i find work, but some of you will discover other modifications that work better for you--and then we all learn."
i've asked students "why are you choosing that modification?" this is not to micromanage, but to understand where they are coming from or what they are working on. i learn a lot from this process, and i find that students do too. i've actually started to incorporate some modifications into my teaching tht i've seen brand new beginners just do intuitively. it's very cool.
so, i think it is important to leave people their space and not micromanage, but i also think that it can be appropriate to ask questions for the purpose of deeper learning between the two individuals.
i think that in ollie's case, having asserted his position about her possibly being on the "dark side" that this is definitely one of those 'respect the teacher' moments and keep the mouth shut.
if there was another motive behind it (learning, genuine concern, etc), then it might be something to ask about.
btw, for the most part, i leave folks alone. i simply assume they're either A. from a different alignment school or B. modifying to suit their needs. If i see a modification that it hink looks particularly cool or helpful, or might be beneficial to me or one of my students, i'll ask that person to teach it to me and perhaps ask them how they came to it. that's just genuine curiousity.
i mean, i would be burning with curiousity to talk to your teacher about her process! | |
| | |
| Cyndi, thanks for your post.
On one level, you are right. But on another, I completely disagree.
One of the reasons I choose the friends that I do is that they tend to bring out the best in me.
For example, many teachers have given me corrections which have enabled me to get more out of my practice. In ultramarathoning, many other fellow athletes have implored me to "get back out there" when I've fallen into bad stretches (times where it feels as if you can't go on). Without their encouragement, I might not have had the modest amount of success that I've had.
Even in my professional life, I've benefited from others giving me a needed "kick in the butt" from time to time.
But, in this case, talking with everyone has made me think "what would be my motive in saying something". I know what the motive would be, and I know that it is useless to ask someone to be what they are not.
THAT is why I keep my mouth shut.
But...what do I say if I decide to stop coming to this class? I will be asked. I want to be honest, but have no desire to be hurtful.
| |
| | |
| would it be fair to say that your practice is taking a different direction? | |
| | |
| zoebird - 2007-09-27 11:55 AM
would it be fair to say that your practice is taking a different direction?
For me to say that would be dishonest.
But, I haven't left yet; I don't want to make the mistake of blaming irrelevant external factors for my internal malaise. | |
| | |
| this is true.
for now, though you don't have to share it, what is your reasoning? | |
| | |
| zoebird - 2007-09-27 12:55 PM
this is true.
for now, though you don't have to share it, what is your reasoning?
It goes something like this:
in the past, when I've struggled with one aspect of yoga asana or another, my teacher has made it a point to work with me to correct what I was doing wrong.
Sometimes, her feedback was rather blunt. So, I feel that I owe her.
On the other hand, doing something correctly is important to me; I am not so sure that it is important to her. Her focus is on giving the students a "good work out" and not injuring them in the process. This is why I say this: when we've traveled to another class together, my focus was on enhancing my own practice; hers was to find new stuff for her students to do. I never got the impression that her own practice was all that important to her.
As far as staying or leaving; let's just say that my attitude hasn't been all that good every since I took that teacher training (Yoga-Fit); it is almost as if I just stopped caring.
Neel cheered me up a bit but I didn't take advantage of that momentum.
So, I don't want to blame others for my own internal stuff, and I don't know if my negative reaction to the class reflects my own internal stuff or is a reasonable reaction.
(Sorry for the "stream of consciousness writing )
| |
| | |
| i think that it would be interesting for you to really dive into your own practice and how the yoga fit training affected that practice.
i think that will hold the key to a lot of this. | |
| | |
| What is Yoga fit training?
| |
| | |
| here's their info: http://www.yogafit.com | |
| | |
| Hmm.. i guess this is a good program.
seems like it is directed towards the gym environment. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | ollie - 2007-09-27 3:03 PM
in the past, when I've struggled with one aspect of yoga asana or another, my teacher has made it a point to work with me to correct what I was doing wrong.
Sometimes, her feedback was rather blunt. So, I feel that I owe her.
hmmm?? This really sounds like a self-appointed, "lets reverse the role of student and become teacher to the teacher". Talk about a shady territory. Your teacher was doing her job. You asked her to teach you by walking into her classroom.
On the other hand, doing something correctly is important to me; I am not so sure that it is important to her. Her focus is on giving the students a "good work out" and not injuring them in the process. This is why I say this: when we've traveled to another class together, my focus was on enhancing my own practice; hers was to find new stuff for her students to do. I never got the impression that her own practice was all that important to her.
Well, that's an interesting statement....now you really should be focusing on your own practice and NOT hers. At this point...it might be time for you to move on, otherwise, you may find yourself in a real pickle with your teacher not living up to your expectations and such. In fact, I have this philosophy, eventually you do have to move on if the teacher has nothing else to offer you. She may not be willing to accept your idea to become her teacher. In order to continue to have the gratitude and respect for the teacher, get out while the getting is good. Don't leave on a bad note or attitude. In fact, all your relations should be this way. Never leave anything sour. Of course, sometimes this cannot be helped for extreme situations that you have no control over. Sounds like you do have a lot of control with this moment and situation.
From what I'm reading, your are trying to force yourself and your newfound beliefs or practice onto someone else...that is not yoga.
OTOH, if you want to stay with her...Be a good student, that is all. If you are being a good example to others and are true to yourself, then automatically others will follow, including your teacher. If not, don't push it. Be a student, because that is what you are to her.
Edited by Cyndi 2007-09-27 4:34 PM
| |
| | |
| TampaEric - 2007-09-27 3:13 PM
Hmm.. i guess this is a good program.
seems like it is directed towards the gym environment.
Yes, it is directed towards the gym environment.
There have been several threads on yoga fit.
| |
| | |
| Oh, sorry. I don't remember reading them. | |
| | |
| That's ok; I didn't expect that anyone would have.
But yoga fit's philosophy is to "bring yoga to the masses" by presenting it as a type of fitness activity in a gym environment.
Some people like it, some don't, and some of the expressed opinions have been, well, rather passionate.
Their beginning teachers program make no "personal practice" requirement on prospective students; the emphasis is on being able to lead a class without injuring anyone.
| |
| | |
| ollie - 2007-09-26 11:30 PM
I prefer to be told if I am making a mistake because how I do the asanas are important to me.
Or, for example, when I am teaching mathematics, I don't mind it if a bright math student shows me an alternate (but correct) way to do a problem.
To me telling a teacher she is out of alignment is not really an alternative way. It's simply telling her she sucks. If I had a teacher that went into a pose in a difficult manner, I might say after class, look at this new way I learned to get into crow-but only if she or he were a good friend. That sounds way more like an alternative to me. Otherwise, to me, like Cyndi said, it's not right. You're the student and she's the teacher. It's her class and you're there to take what you can get out of it.
The thing is, your initial post came off as you not being happy with your yoga, or hers. So, I read between the lines and thought you were just going to tear her down to make yourself feel better. Then, you went on to joke that she's "on the dark side" and then I was sure you don't really like her professionaly (sp?) and telling her she was out of alignment was not coming from a good or helpful place.
Also, I completely agree with Cyndi. You are there as a student. She's the teacher. She's got her own teachers. If she doesn't, then eventually, your own practice will require a new teacher. There is nothing wrong with changing teachers. My first teacher is someone I loved and now I work with her. But, she's not my teacher anymore b/c I like more challenging asana that she offers.
I can only speak from my experience with YF, and I have no way of knowing if this is what you're feeling. After my first training, I felt less confident and very confused, and inadequate. I taught my 8 hours and decided I was a terrible teacher and it turned me off to practicing b/c I had this goal in mind, and now felt I had failed and made a huge mistake. I felt trapped between wanting to be a yoga teacher, and not thinking I was good enough, but better than the average student and still deep down felt like I could be a better teacher than the current teachers in my circle. So, I sat on it for about a year. Then I took the second level and it all clicked for me. I got a job and took off. I still felt shaky with my teaching, but I knew I was doing the right thing. I forgave myself mistakes I made in class (like grouping asanas that didn't flow very well) and I learned. And I learned and learned and I learned. I will never stop learning. But, in the beginning, I couldn't cope with not knowing everything all at once. The reason I take the time to point this out, is b/c I was critical of other teachers during that time. I'd get mad when they brought pilates in, or did some other non-pure yoga. Who knows-this may not be at all what you're feeling, but I thought I'd take the time to share that I had some issues after training, too.
Oh, and I'm not critical anymore. I've come to realize that even if I don't click with a teacher, there is *always* something to learn.
One more thing-I have no problem at all with a teacher who goes to a training motivated to learn more for her/his students. I love my peeps and I want to learn new things for more for them than me.
TamaErci-Yes, it's designed primarily for gyms, but can certainly be taught in a studio. In fact, as the training goes on, and you read the Sutras and the Gita, there is plenty that I learn, but leave out of my gym. I occasionly sprinkle "stuff" in, but I actually got a giggle when I talked about Nadi's! Oh well, it's all good.
Edited by Kym 2007-09-27 10:21 PM
| |
| | |
| Kym - 2007-09-27 9:10 PM
[
I can only speak from my experience with YF, and I have no way of knowing if this is what you're feeling. After my first training, I felt less confident and very confused, and inadequate. I taught my 8 hours and decided I was a terrible teacher and it turned me off to practicing b/c I had this goal in mind, and now felt I had failed and made a huge mistake.
Well, there are some differences. For one, I really only attended this workshop because my teacher cajoled me into doing so, and because I felt some sense of duty toward the park district which provided classes for me.
The idea is that I could sub when the options were: either I sub, or there is no class at all. I have said NO to taking my own class; frankly, I am not qualified to teach yoga though I can lead a beginner's class in a pinch.
My reaction to the training was mixed: I did enjoy meeting the others on a personal level, and I did enjoy doing lots of yoga.
But on the other hand, much of my reaction was "Yuck! Just anyone can do this!" The workshop leader was ok, but when we did the "trainees demonstrating the asanas" section, let's just say that a beginner doing the asanas that way is fine, but I'd never return to a class when the teacher was doing them on that level, unless it was the case that it was a wise 70-80 year old guru in declining health, etc.)
I have the (quaint? elitist?) notion that one ought to be good at something before they can teach it. | |
| | |
| If it makes you feel any better, many people who take level 1 never take level 2, and never end up teaching. You are an example of that, in fact! People take that training for all different reasons and go on to various things in their lives. A level 2 looks a whole lot different, as does a level 3, 4 and so on. The YF people say the most difficult training to teach is level 1 b/c of all the wildly various different places people are in. Maybe you should consider opening your heart a bit and be more accepting of people in their own journey. I too appreciate a teacher who is clearly very skilled, but we can't all be the best of the best.
And, I may be going out on a limb here, but I think even if you took a Purple Lotus or any other kind of 200-500 program, the first weekend would look similar in terms of asana and knowledge base. I went to training to learn, not because I already knew it all. | |
| | |
| Kym - 2007-09-28 8:16 AM
Maybe you should consider opening your heart a bit and be more accepting of people in their own journey. I too appreciate a teacher who is clearly very skilled, but we can't all be the best of the best.
Ok, I'll make an "I" statement: "I" want to take classes from someone who can do the asanas well.
And, I may be going out on a limb here, but I think even if you took a Purple Lotus or any other kind of 200-500 program, the first weekend would look similar in terms of asana and knowledge base. I went to training to learn, not because I already knew it all.
1) I understand that some programs want you to have an established personal practice going in. I think that is a reasonable requirement.
2) Even if things look the same at the beginning of a 200-500 hour program, they would probably look VERY DIFFERENT at the end; that wasn't the case here.
Frankly, I don't care what others do on "their own journey"; that is none of my business.
But there are some atmospheres that I enjoy, and others that I don't. Not every program is for everyone (nor should be) and I found one that wasn't for me.
I'll conclude by saying the following: I prefer atmospheres where friends hold each other accountable; where people try to bring out the best in one another and in themselves. I don't like "enabling" atmospheres.
| |
| | |
| ollie - 2007-09-28 9:47 AM
2) Even if things look the same at the beginning of a 200-500 hour program, they would probably look VERY DIFFERENT at the end; that wasn't the case here.
Okey doke.
One thing-I meant at the end of the 200 or 500 program, not just the one weekend a student would look different. You only took one weekend, not the 200 hour program, and that's what I was referring to.
And no, not every program is for everyone. Just as not every college, or any place of business. I think that's obvious. I hope I dind't come across as tyring to change your mind about YF. I'm all good with everyone having different opinions about that kind of thing now. I have embraced the yamas and niyamas. I made an attempt to share what happened with me b/c you sounded conflicted. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| ollie - you are a very clear thinker. Must be that math background  The whole issue here (as far as your original question goes) is, I think, your relationship with your teacher. If my teacher showed a serious change in her poses consistently, I would be really worried and would eventually have to ask her if she was ok. Even when she has had injuries, she has accommodated in class and either modified or had a student demo. Your teacher doesn't come from the same background and probably has never been as dedicated to alignment as my teacher, so there is a difference right there. And, as you say, your relationship is in flux, so it is probably not appropriate to bring up the topic.
The YF thing is a whole different ballgame. I think that, no matter what style of training, it can be quite a challenge to our practice after the first one. I did fine through training but am still struggling since certification. Kym described the mental/emotional disturbance quite well. I think you know that yoga is important to you and you'll find a way to continue, perhaps (well, probably) without your first teacher. Keep us up to date on your journey. 
Kym - without trying to open the usual can o' worms here, It is gratifying to know that many of those first time, non-experienced YF students don't go on to teach. It is still a bit scary to me that some do... | |
| | |
| i think it's an interesting observation after training that most people have--that balancing teaching and practicing is difficult AND that having this new 'awareness' or way of thinking about yoga (thinking about it critically, as in 'critical thinking skills' or 'problem solving') makes practicing that much more difficult.
what i recommend to people who want to take teacher training is that they develop a strong, independent practice. once one starts teaching, they may discover that their opportunities to take classes have 'dried up.' by that, i mean that many people take class twice a week--and that is their practice and that is good. butt hen they take teacher training, and they teach one day a week and then they practice the other--because that's what their schedule allowed in the past and therefore is what it allows now. and some will teach on both nights--and so they have 'no practice' and it's hard to get motivated to get into the habit of doing it at home, where there are often many distractions.
thus, t hey choose between practicing or teaching. some will choose practicing, some will choose teaching, and some will discover some way to do both (whether at home practice, or only teaching that one time a week, or opening up another spot in their schedule). it's interesting to observe.
i think that the other thing that happens is that many people take yoga and 'enjoy' class. they don't have to think much about sequencing, alignment, etc--the teacher does this for them. they can just go, be in the moment or flow of that class, and enjoy that time. it's a time to relax, a time for themselves.
but then, teacher training teaches them to analyze what is going on. the mind comes in, and they begin observing teacher, students, sequencing, their own alignment. instead of being 'fun time' to enjoy themselves (which is important, valuable, and healthy), yoga becomes an analytical time, another aspect of 'work' and practice might loose it's sweetness because the mind is now involved in analyzing everything (and sometimes that also slips into self-judgement).
so, these people find themselves in a tight spot trying to find the balance between pure practice and analytical practice. for my own part, i divide the two. i have what i call my "practice" and then i have my "teaching practice." one is in the morning; the other in the afternoon. and when i'm in a class with my teacher, it's a combination of both. it's just pure being with that teacher and sequence, while also making 'mental notes' of questions, feelings, alignments, sequencing, etc--but without judgement of that material. i have good recall of sequencing, for example, even in a 4 hour class, because i hit a mental "record" button in my brain. i simply do the class, with devotion to the teacher, and then at the end, i write down everything that we did and double check withthe teacher to make sure it's right.
i recommend this to my apprentices--but it is hard to find this balance and figure out how to make it work for yourself.
and, it's also ok to 'grow out of' teachers. as i said, i hoep my students 'grow out of me' all the time. | |
| | |
| zoebird - 2007-09-28 11:27 AM but then, teacher training teaches them to analyze what is going on. the mind comes in, and they begin observing teacher, students, sequencing, their own alignment. instead of being 'fun time' to enjoy themselves (which is important, valuable, and healthy), yoga becomes an analytical time, another aspect of 'work' and practice might loose it's sweetness because the mind is now involved in analyzing everything (and sometimes that also slips into self-judgement). I found myself already in this analytical mode within the first month of my teacher training, and yes, it did take away some of the sweetness of the practice for me. So to replace what I felt I was now lacking, I found myself taking more and more classes, as if quantity could fill in for quality for me. Our teacher encouraged us to take class a lot, observe a lot, and also practice a lot on our own. While I did all those things, I'm starting to realize that my proportions and objectives were a bit skewed. Almost six months out of my training and into teaching, it's starting to make sense now. It's so interesting how, no matter how good the teachings might be, if you're not ready to receive them, they won't impact you properly until you are. And even after then, you'll continue to learn and understand what the teacher was trying to impart. | |
| | |
| Kym - 2007-09-28 9:16 AM If it makes you feel any better, many people who take level 1 never take level 2, and never end up teaching. You are an example of that, in fact! People take that training for all different reasons and go on to various things in their lives. A level 2 looks a whole lot different, as does a level 3, 4 and so on. The YF people say the most difficult training to teach is level 1 b/c of all the wildly various different places people are in. Maybe you should consider opening your heart a bit and be more accepting of people in their own journey. I too appreciate a teacher who is clearly very skilled, but we can't all be the best of the best. And, I may be going out on a limb here, but I think even if you took a Purple Lotus or any other kind of 200-500 program, the first weekend would look similar in terms of asana and knowledge base. I went to training to learn, not because I already knew it all. I only got as far as Level 3, and that's when I knew it wasn't for me. I was very excited when the training's syllabus said we'd be learning about the benefits of a home practice, journaling, the ethics of being a teacher and the yamas and niyamas. Well, maybe the particular instructor I had for that training didn't receive the same syllabus as I did, because aside from a cursory overview of the yamas and niyamas, we didn't cover any of those subjects. From the sound of it, it seems you got the full course, and so maybe my less than satisfying experience was not the norm. I really hope that was the case. | |
| | |
| ollie - 2007-09-28 7:44 AM But on the other hand, much of my reaction was "Yuck! Just anyone can do this!" The workshop leader was ok, but when we did the "trainees demonstrating the asanas" section, let's just say that a beginner doing the asanas that way is fine, but I'd never return to a class when the teacher was doing them on that level, unless it was the case that it was a wise 70-80 year old guru in declining health, etc.) I have the (quaint? elitist?) notion that one ought to be good at something before they can teach it. Maybe this is truly what's meant by their slogan of "bringing yoga to the masses"? Seriously, Ollie, if I hadn't already been versed in fitness (though not in group instruction, as most everyone else was who attended the workshops), I would've been clueless and turned off as well at this point. The YF training is primarily for group fitness instructors who want to branch out and teach yoga at their gyms as well. It is not for yoga students who want to deepen their practice. It is also not for yoga students who want to learn to be teachers. That's why having no previous experience with yoga is totally fine for their level 1 workshop. If only they just came out and said so explicitly on their website. Now please understand, I don't mean to say that it's not possible to do the YF 200-hr training and become a good, or even great, yoga teacher. I'm just talking about what the objectives of the program are (as I experienced them 3-4 years ago) and the type of participants it draws to itself. In the promotional material, YF claims its trainings are for those who wish deepen their practice. This was the part with which I feel YF failed me, and for that reason I abandoned it and found a yoga studio at which to practice. As I said in my first post on this thread, I went elsewhere. But I never would've known to even go in the first place if I hadn't attended the trainings that I did. So in that respect, YF was a positive experience for me, because without it, I never would've known any yoga. One more thing... I'm remembering now meeting a few individuals who were already yoga teachers who attended the level 1 workshop. They said they were taking it just for the YA affiliation that their studios now required, even though they had been teaching yoga for a number of years. I remember specifically one woman advising me that this was definitely not the end-all and be-all training, and that I should study much more past this workshop. I was so green, I hadn't learned a proper chaturanga yet (and didn't even know it wasn't called crocodile!). | |
| | |
| It [YF] is also not for yoga students who want to learn to be teachers. That's why having no previous experience with yoga is totally fine for their level 1 workshop.
Except me. I must be the only one. Oh, good grief!  | |
| | |
| I say that in fun. | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| It is all a long and winding road, this yoga stuff, isn't it? BKS talks about yoga all being part of a big tree. Some of us are on one limb, some on other limbs, different limbs sprout out from the trunk and whatnot, but we all are still part of the tree. | |
| | |
| That's lovely! | |
| | |
Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I like the analogy that my husband gave me once from his guru. He said that Hinduism is like a big gigantic spider web...with no ending. Going into it you can get entangled and stuck forever. Then of course, by the grace of the guru, you find the path. | |
| | |
| Kym - 2007-09-28 8:52 PM It [YF] is also not for yoga students who want to learn to be teachers. That's why having no previous experience with yoga is totally fine for their level 1 workshop. Except me. I must be the only one. Oh, good grief! I don't know about being the only one, but you're certainly the lucky one. I'm very happy to be proven wrong, and I really wish I hadn't been disappointed. Like I said, I have no grudge with YF, because if it weren't for them, I wouldn't be where I am today. Many branches on the same tree (even if some are in the shade -- the dark side? ) means many entry points for all to join in. It's all good. | |
| | |
| As long as you are not injuring yourself or others, any type of yoga is probably better than no yoga. Since different people relate differently at different stages of their lives, I think that the more different types of yoga there are out there, the better. I also see yoga as something that is evolving, not static and any mutation that is positive will last and the dead ends will not (kind of a yogic Darwinism). Since (in my view) yoga is a tool not a goal, if the practice can be improved for some people or made more relevant in any way, GREAT! | |
| | |
| Ps to all of this: I made myself do home practice over the past 4 days and, guess what? My interest in yoga has perked up again!
"You can act your way into right thinking, but you can't think your way into right action" is what I've heard.
As far as classes with my teacher: it isn't as if I need her to demo for me anyway; a bit of feedback here and there (which she gives) is good enough.
If I want to learn advanced poses (when I am ready), I can either shell out money for private lessons from one of the nearby yoga studios, or I can try to catch Neel at a conference. | |
| | |
| I'm happy to hear the love of yoga is back. It's such goodness. | |
| | |
| Hi:
Just noticed this discussion: and one thought occurs to me.
Personally, if I felt disturbed by what anyone else was doing 'wrong' in my yoga class, whether it was the teacher or one of the students, then it usually means that I have a less successful practice because my mind gets away from me. Also it feels heavy with negativity and conflict. It cannot be still, and as a result, meditation or flow (which should be the fruit of a good yoga practice) can go bye-bye.
Altogether, it seems very anti-thetical to the idea of "yoga is the cessation of the fluctuations of the mind" philosophy.
I think that if my practice was being distracted by the movement of my mind, then I would try to address the issue of my own mind, rather than another's pose. If the disturbance continues in my mind, then I need to address it in some other fashion, by removing myself from the area of conflict perhaps. There will always be problems in the world...other personalities, attitudes, our problems and preferences, the weather, a million things. To me the challenge is in the question: how do we control the only thing in ourselves...which in turn controls our response to everything else? Viz. the mind...
I can see that you are all experienced yoga practioners, so please don't think I am presuming here. Personally, I will never 'master' any pose...I hope.
Usha | |
| | |
| Thanks everyone for the input; things are now all "lovey-dovey" again between my teacher and I. Part of what helped is that I decided that I needed to revive my home practice (though I still go to the same classes); doing that gets me focused on what I need to do.
| |
| |
|
my teacher