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| dhanurasana - 2006-01-20 12:51 AM
i always scoffed at the notion that you can get higher without drugs than with them...
but i have come to see that they are doing more to cloud my consciousness than continue its expansion.
A lot of the people pushing those ideas generally haven't tried drugs, and are just repeating what they've been told. I've done some of the things you're talking about, and so had my teacher. It's absolutely true that you can get higher w/o drugs than with them. At best they're a crutch, at worse a very treacherous pitfall.
I've also read quite a bit about Ken Kesey, a number of other counter-culture figures, they all say that they got to a certain point with drugs, and couldn't get any further. In the mean time it took a very heavy toll on their body.
its hard to stop, though. all my friends are smokers (not cigarettes), and that comprises a huge part of our social interaction.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the occasional puff, or drink. I still have beer now and then, and I'm going out to tonight to celebrate my friend's 30th at a bar. Unfortunately a lot of people confuse this with some sort of spiritual progress, or use the literature to explain and justify their drug experiences.
its a lot of fun, and boy does it help to pass the time.
but uh...i suppose when it comes down to yoga practice vs. drug use...
well, i'd like to think yoga would come out on top.
My first yoga practice was 100% better than my best drug high. You'll have to make the call yourself. In the end I think yoga's worth the candle, though it's definitely NOT easy. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
    
| dhanurasana - 2006-01-19 9:51 PM
its a lot of fun, and boy does it help to pass the time.
See, this is where the expression "some people have to much time on their hands" is appropriate. I have not been in a situation where I had to actively look for ways to pass the time (waiting rooms and boring activities I have been forced to sit through don't count) for 25 years. It helps to live in a house that is perpetually messy. If I think I might be getting bored I tell myself I could alway clean it and that usually helps get me occupied again 
Great answer GJ.
Oops! Popped over the 3000 mark without even noticing...speaking of too much time on one's hands  |
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Expert Yogi
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | themadatter - 2006-01-19 8:46 PM
I accept that.
Sorry Cyndi, I did mis-interpret what you said.
Anyway,, please accept my apologies Cyndi; ~I didnt mean to offend !
Jamie, don't sweat it, I wasn't offended and I just read what you wrote. My quote is at the end of my sig line. "Everything works if you let it". That is a very profound sentence and can mean alot of things to different people. When I read this quote it makes me think about "living in the moment" and "accepting the moment" . Having that kind of awareness will expand and open up your world. No need to be scared and have terrible nightmares and freaky meditations. You just have to allow and go with the flow, but have the common sense when to back off. This is why having a guru helps. Because when you push too far, they will reel you back in. When you don't go far enough...they push you over to the edge...sometimes a teensy bit over, but not enough to kill or harm you - at least the right guru would not allow that to happen and if it did, well that would be a good question for a guru. Anyway, good luck with your experiences and try to relax, don't give up and for god's sake, try to stay within the body until you can figure out where it is that you would like to go, okay??
Take care,
Cyndi |
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| Mine are fairly tame compared to some here. I've only been practising for a 18 months. Last summer I got a very strong impression of someone crossing the room and sitting down beside me. Not spooky or anything, just unexpected.
On two other consecutive days I came out of (I tend to call it sitting rather than meditation as I'm sure it doesn't qualify yet) my sitting with the most quiet and peace I have ever known. As if to do anything in a hurry was against some law of thermodynamics or something.
I think ever since then I have been trying to re-create that feeling - is that futile/counter productive I wonder?
John |
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| jpk - 2006-01-24 6:13 PM
Mine are fairly tame compared to some here. I've only been practising for a 18 months. Last summer I got a very strong impression of someone crossing the room and sitting down beside me. Not spooky or anything, just unexpected.
I've had some really odd feelings from time to time. One time I was in a really good savasana, and everybody else had left the room. I couldn't tell, and there wasn't any sort of time limit, so I still thought conceptually there were people. However, towards the end, the instructor for the next class came in, and I was certain I could feel his eyes on me as he tried to figure out what to make of the situation.
On two other consecutive days I came out of (I tend to call it sitting rather than meditation as I'm sure it doesn't qualify yet) my sitting with the most quiet and peace I have ever known. As if to do anything in a hurry was against some law of thermodynamics or something.
I often get a feeling like this that goes beyond simple physical lethargy after a good practice.
I think ever since then I have been trying to re-create that feeling - is that futile/counter productive I wonder?
In my experience mediation is a very odd balance of work/not working, which I believe is why the Lao Tzu uses the idea of NON-ado, or NON-striving. "The Tao abides in non-action,
Yet nothing is left undone." Some of my most meditative experiences have come about after a period of working on it, and then giving up, only to have to come around unexpectedly. |
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| Thanks Greenjello,
Non-striving. I could go for that !
John |
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| jpk - 2006-01-25 1:45 PM
Thanks Greenjello,
Non-striving. I could go for that !
John
Well, it's not exactly an excuse to slack off either. I've been struggling with how to explain this for quite a while. As a matter of fact a friend of mine is very much into doing things, and keeps insisting that there's some effort involved, to which I say there isn't, absolutely none, and we can't seem to find any middle ground. Anyway, I thought this pretty much summed it up.
At certain times you will feel as if there were a contest between the will and the mind; at other times you may feel as if they were in harmony; but there is a third state, to be distinguished from the latter feeling. It is the certain sign of near success, the view-halloo. This is when the mind runs naturally towards the object chosen, not as if in obedience to the will of the owner of the mind, but as if directed by nothing at all, or by something impersonal; as if it were falling by its own weight, and not being pushed down.
Almost always, the moment that one becomes conscious of this, it stops; and the dreary old struggle between the cowboy will and the buckjumper mind begins again.
Like every other physiological process, consciousness of it implies disorder or disease.
In analysing the nature of this work of controlling the mind, the student will appreciate without trouble the fact that two things are involved -- the person seeing and the thing seen -- the person knowing and the thing known; and he will come to regard this as the necessary condition of all consciousness. We are too accustomed to assume to be facts things about which we have no real right even to guess. We assume, for example, that the unconscious is the torpid; and yet nothing is more certain than that bodily organs which are functioning well do so in silence. The best sleep is dreamless. Even in the case of games of skill our very best strokes are followed by the thought, "I don't know how I did it;" and we cannot repeat those strokes at will. The moment we begin to think consciously about a stroke we get "nervous," and are lost.
In fact, there are three main classes of stroke; the bad stroke, which we associate, and rightly, with wandering attention; the good stroke which we associate, and rightly, with fixed attention; and the perfect stroke, which we do not understand, but which is really caused by the habit of fixity of attention having become independent of the will, and thus enabled to act freely of its own accord.
This is the same phenomenon referred to above as being a good sign.
--- Liber IV |
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| Hmmm. Its going to take me some time to absorb that !
What I meant was not that I would slack off but to keep at it without trying to force anything, and not to beat myself up if progress is slow.
After all, I've had a lot of years living a life without any particular focus, without (until recently) noticing the continual inane chatter bouncing around inside me, trying to do too many things at once, etc etc, so it might take a while to get what you might call "on track".
Thanks again for the effort and care put into your reply,
John. |
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| jpk - 2006-01-26 6:57 PM
Hmmm. Its going to take me some time to absorb that !
Take your time. 
What I meant was not that I would slack off but to keep at it without trying to force anything, and not to beat myself up if progress is slow.
Good, that's a very health attitude to take. |
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| Dear Atom,
Kulkarni has a knack of saying "You are doing it wrong". If you want to know why, please visit link to his commercial site.
However, whatever I know about Meditation, what you are doing may be dangerous without an expert by your side. Actually, the point between your Eyebrows is called the Agyan-Chakra. Meditating on this point is the shortest route to arise one's Kundalini, if i am not wrong. Kundalini is the most powerful energy & its arising may be devastating if not done under proper guidance. With your experience, i have a feeling that you are going in that direction. This also shows that you are an advanced soul & can easily achieve higher spiritual levels.
May God Bless You !
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| Hi Dylon and Adam,
I like your exploration. Keep in mind that Neel is only trying to help, and his 'textbook' answers are a safety net to keep beginners in meditation,such as us(I'm just under 24 yrs. of meditating), from hurting our selves. It's easy to belittle someone, especially when not face to face, and we are all on a spiritual journey, or we wouldn't be here in this site. Acknowledging the voice of experience only shows that our minds are open and mature. Just being in that state will help our meditation grow. Spaciousness.
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| Dear Devotee: I wish you all the best. But, now, please do not be offended at my following statements. I am sure they shall be a guide to you.
1. On my previous posts on this thread. You wrote. Devotee: Mr. Kulkarni, If that is wrong, What don't you suggest what is right ? You sound too commercial !
2. To your above statement, I responded. ===> Hey Devotee: Please read my all responses again. At least one with the name with the Devotee should not make the above comment. I already wrote in my response what is right in the case of original poster. And, what makes you think I sound Commercial! I told the poster to go to an Experienced Teacher, NOT me. If your son wants to get degree in Physics and you tell him to go to an excellent (Experienced) University to get the degree: Does that men you are commercial? I think you are commercial and therefore you interpreted my response that way.
3. To my above post you did NOT respond. That definitely shows something about you. And, definitely disqualifies you to make the following comment, which you made to another person, instead of directly talking with me.
4. Dear Atom, Kulkarni has a knack of saying "You are doing it wrong". If you want to know why, please visit link to his commercial site. However, whatever I know about Meditation, what you are doing may be dangerous without an expert by your side. Actually, the point between your Eyebrows is called the Agyan-Chakra. Meditating on this point is the shortest route to arise one's Kundalini, if i am not wrong. Kundalini is the most powerful energy & its arising may be devastating if not done under proper guidance. With your experience, i have a feeling that you are going in that direction. This also shows that you are an advanced soul & can easily achieve higher spiritual levels. May God Bless You !
5. Now this is my response to your above 4===> a) ha ha ha. So, all along you were bothered by my giving my website at the bottom of my postings. When I joined this group 2 years ago, there was another person who had the same problem. But, at least she made it clear. Whetheras you were xxxx NOT to express it as response to my previous query. That same girl, later started giving her website at the bottom of her messages later, thus surrendering to xxxx. Now, let me tell you one thing. In last two years, I only made 5 or so good contacts with the memebers of this board, and none of them are commercial. b) Your above statement is reckless and false.Because, in my message, I did not say that the reader should visit my commercial site. I only stated they should seek an experienced teacher. Do you mean that in your opinon, only one person, that is me, satisfies that qualification? c) Next, In my previous response, I asked you to read my previous responses. And, I am sure that you have been reading my previous postings. And, you have given more importance or weightage to my website listing at the bottom of my message than the contents of messages. I really pity your attitude, and request you to quickly change it in your own favor. d) Now, with all your critical observation of me, let me comment on your above response, this is below:
Dear Atom, Kulkarni has a knack of saying "You are doing it wrong". If you want to know why, please visit link to his commercial site.
===> This response of yours has been explained above.
However, whatever I know about Meditation, what you are doing may be dangerous without an expert by your side.
===> May be = You are NOT sure, but you still want to guide the person. Are you going to provide or suggest such an expert to the poster OR just tell him do NOT look at Neel's website? How do you know whether other experts also will not ask the poster to go to their website? Are you suggesting that he should find an expert who does not have any advertising media and who sits in the caves of Himalayas?
Actually, the point between your Eyebrows is called the Agyan-Chakra. Meditating on this point is the shortest route to arise one's Kundalini, if i am not wrong.
===> If I am NOT wrong = that means you are not sure. But, you still want to suggest this point. The person is already having funny experiences, and you want to have fun with it, by adding some of your ignorance or knowledge of Ajna Chakram. Now, when the person gets more funny experiences, where shall he go? To you? To your suggested expert? Or, you shall suggest him something new?
Kundalini is the most powerful energy & its arising may be devastating if not done under proper guidance. With your experience, i have a feeling that you are going in that direction.
===> Are you saying that original poster is in devastating condition? And, you want to suggest a proper guidance to him? Can you be more specific about what guidance do you suggest? A class in Gym, or Health Club or Spa, or a saint whom you have met or NOT met? You are a blind person leading another blind. I do not mean the original poster is blind. From your post, you are calling him blind with the term devastating condition. but, I am sure you are blind.
This also shows that you are an advanced soul & can easily achieve higher spiritual levels. May God Bless You !
===> Now, according to you, the person who is in devastating condition and going in wrong direction suddenly becomes an advanced soul achieving higher spiritual levels. What does advanced soul mean?
===> I am thankful to you to state that God shall bless the person who posted original question, as your suggestions are totally useless to the person.
Peace |
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| Well, I have nothing "mystical" to report as far as meditation experiences. I practice shamatha meditation in a Tibetan Buddhist (Kagyu) tradition, and we are instructed to meditate with our eyes partially open and our gaze fixed on a spot somewhat ahead of us on the ground. What I will say that I have experienced are some extremely bizzare visual hallucinations - seeing colors, flashing lights, undulations of the floor, shapes coming up out of the floor and receding back into it... Even so, I find meditating with eyes open to be far less distracting than with eyes closed. Perhaps this is just because it is the way I learned. |
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Experiences during Meditation
