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Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
   
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | I am starting a new class at a local Ballys. I'm very much looking forward to having more men participate in my class.
The director who hired me asked if I had taken classes with their present yoga teachers. I said no and that I wanted to but didn't have the opportunity to get in. She told me the times of the two different teachers and since my schedule for teachingis very light this past week, my days are open for both of the teachers. She wanted feedback on what I thought.
Well, yesterday morning I took one of the classes with my girlie pal from next door (she is a Ballys member).
It was a very interesting class. The women was a little bitty thing in her mid seventies. She teaches Hatha yoga.I enjoed the class and completely admire her. She moved free and is amazing for her age....a true inspirational instructor.
My girlfriend was not impressed with this instructor's teaching style. Supposedly this woman has been teaching a very long time. I don't doubt that.
The only thing I was not fond of is that she is non descript throughout the whole class. She plainly stated in the begining of her class that she will not instruct breath. As the class went through the grooves, she basically said "now move your left foot, reach the hands up, hold" etc..... Even when she ended the class she said "that ends our yoga class today.
I don't know what I should expect but I must admit I expected a little more instruction and clarification, especially because she asked who was new in the class and there were about 8 people that raised their hands. I thought she should have asked if anyone had any ailments, high blood pressure, etc....
For the teachers or students who practice Hatha, what is the format usually like???
I know that some think if you're teaching yoga for 25-35 years you're a very experienced instructor, which is true. But in defense of new instructors, I do like that they are very knowledgeable in how, why, when, etc.... it all works.
I like to learn and teach in a style that teaches others more about yoga then just moving!!!!
Please don't misenterpret what I'm stating here. I like the teacher a lot and can learn from every single instructor I meet. I just wonder if after teaching for so many years that you soften up on the essentials for beginners. There are so many people taking yoga in a gym type setting because it is hot. there is so much more to it and it's very easy to introduce that to others without being too "out there".
Whatcha think????
 Mishy |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
 
| Mish - the term hatha is just so broad it can include this one teacher all the way up to someone with extensive experience in multiple styles who simply dosen't want to commit to one style anymore. In this case, one factor is probably that, when she began teaching (assuming she has been teaching for 20 -30 years) they often were not permitted to include breath work or spiritual teachings. The facilities controlled that stuff. I know our teachers had to negotiate with the Y to include oming and that was limited to 3 per class or something ridiculous.
So it looks like you will be in a good position to offer something different and exciting at this gym - lucky you! |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | Yeah, I'm excited to offer another style, although I have to admit, I did enjoy this woman's class but I have knowledge behind the movement and awareness of breath.
Was just wondering on thoughts about this topic from all
Mishy |
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| First, what level is this class. The local jivamukti teacher also asks if there are any newbies, but she's teaching a more advanced class, and the schedule states that a basic knowledge of yoga is expected.
Second, I know some teachers who are keep on scripting every breath, and some that aren't. I don't really listen to the people instructing me to breath, either I get it or I don't.
Third, queueing is pretty much that queue, not a full instruction on how to do the asana. I've never had a class where enough instruction was given via voice to be able to do much more than figure out what was next. If I didn't know the asana, I check out my neighbors.
Finally, you mentioned that you wanted more men in class. Well, you might want to tone down the more esoteric aspects, particulary if you're in a gym instead of a studio. You also might want to emphasis which asanas are strength based so that later the men can pound their chests with their buddies in the showers about how they pulled off asana X. |
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| GreenJello - 2006-01-02 12:13 AM
Well, you might want to tone down the more esoteric aspects, particulary if you're in a gym instead of a studio. You also might want to emphasis which asanas are strength based so that later the men can pound their chests with their buddies in the showers about how they pulled off asana X.
I'm not sure if I agree with toning down the esoteric elements. I think it's a disservice to provide students (new or old) with a yoga-themed aerobics/gymnastics class rather than a true yoga experience. Linking breath and movement and increasing awareness of our internal energy is too important to sacrifice in order to get more men in a class. |
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| Yes, but I don't think that the breath is all that esoteric. I'm thinking more about spending a lot of time talking about stuff like energy movement, chakras, loving your neighbor, lighting candles and concentrating on your inner light/love. Maybe it would be more correct to say toss the airy-fairy stuff. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Yeah - it isn't just the guys who don't like airy-fairy I love howmy Iyengar teachers can discuss the chakras, symbolic meanings of the poses and being in touch with the Self without the woo-woo, la-la stuff  As far as strength moves for the men go - beware of chaturanga. I gave that one to DH once since his ego was bruised from other poses and when he couldn't hold it I couldn't help but laugh - such a meanie I am! He has big strong arms and shoulders but a long upper body and not a terrific amount of core strength. I should send him to Pilates... |
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| mishoga - 2006-01-01 4:14 PM
Yeah, I'm excited to offer another style, although I have to admit, I did enjoy this woman's class but I have knowledge behind the movement and awareness of breath.
Was just wondering on thoughts about this topic from all
Mishy
to this point first, i have to say that just because she didn't talk about it or instruct on it, doesn't mean she doesn't know about it.
I know that in any given class, i don't give all of the information that i know about a pose or whatever. Particularly if there are a lot of new people. This is because a lot of new people don't have any body awareness and a lot of talking clutters up their ability to hear the most important instructions. If i were to teach warrior I to a new class (as i did this morning), i teach it very spare--put your foot here, make sure your knee is there, feel the heel back there, arms up with palms facing each other. relax your shoulders and smile. This is warrior I.
for a newbie, that's more than enough information to take in, and if i got into energetic mvoements, locks, and all the sanskrit language, plus an esoteric element/teaching for the pose--it's overload. SO, when i teach basics classes, i teach them spare. When i give adjustments (most of which are slight, one and two finger touches) in these classes, i'll answer specific questions or make specific comments such as "engage this thigh muscle, do you feel the strength of the leg?" and then they answer. this may lead to more detail, but i may not need to make it a comment for everyone in class. I also use terms like "good" and "beautiful" a lot, to be encouraging, even if alignment isn't great.
so, this could have also been this teacher's method. Sometimes, students can feel overloaded with information and not able to hear the most important stuff--the stuff related to safety--when the teacher throws out or tries to throw out everything that s/he knows.
I find that after the first few weeks of working with raw beginners, then i can introduce more instruction and language, but i'm also able to move away from very 'gross' instruction such as "foot here, knee there" to simply saying "gentle move to warrior I" and then i can go into details like locks or why we'll do warrior I now and follow it with warrior III or whatever. or bring in breath work or more esoteric stuff.
So, the teacher could have a spare style, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't ahve more knowledge. Perhaps i didn't seem knowledgeable to my students in the classroom today--where i had 12 students, 5 of which were experienced and the other 7 were older and with various ailments. I wanted to make sure that everyone felt confident that they were safe and that they knew the basics and were getting it right. I didn't even give them the tiniest snowflake of what i know--and i know that most teachers, heck i'll even venture to say ALL teachers dont' give even a snowflake of what they know in class. You know what i mean?
Anyway, as to different styles, tourist is right about history. even ten years ago, there were places where i would teach and i wasn't allowed to use sanskrit terms, play any music that seemed "new agey" or go into any of the history of philosophy of the practice. No 'oming' or anything like that. I could teach dirga pranayama, but that's it and only if i didn't call it dirga pranayama. Even in some yoga studios today, teachers are confined as to what they're allowed to talk about and what they aren't (and these studios are really hard for me to work for! LOL).
But, in many gym settings today where i teach, you can find HUGE diversity in teaching--from more static styles to vinyasa styles. from teachers who fret about alignment (me) to teachers who don't think about alignment at all (it's more important that the person breaths and feels good, then whether or not their alignment is right. this is to help them prep for meditation.--said one such teacher). There are teachers who incorporate chanting to varying degrees and teachers who don't chant at all. There are teachers who teach pranayama and teachers who only teach one or two kinds of pranayama.
there is huge diversity in teaching. but don't think that just because the class seems spare that it's necessarily the way the teacher always teaches or that the teacher doesn't have enough knowledge of the topic. |
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| on teaching men. . .
it is surprising to me how many men are naturally drawn to my classes. i have relatively small classes overall (averaging 12-15 students) but they're all very dedicated. In some classes, men are a majority (one class is 7 men, 3 women); but in most classes, men are the minority (one or two men in class).
I teach the same class, stylisticly, whether or not men are present. I do not emphasize strength, so much as muscle balance. Recently, the concept of balance has been a major theme for me--to which both men and women respond. i like alignment, i talk about chakras and energy movement, and i'll discuss various philosophical elements.
i find that you can be real with them, joke with them, encouraging with them, and not all "airy fairy" and "la la" and that's going to attract them. Also, finding out what they want to gain from it will help. I tell male clients when they have a tightness in their shoulders and their obviously body builders that doing this motion or that motion will help improve this or that lift (overheads, chins, dips, etc). if they're cyclists, i focus it. triathletes, focus it. Maybe not to the general class, with broad statements, but when i'm giving an adjustment, i'll say it quietly to them so that they're even more encouraged to stick with it.
But, i find that teaching men and attracting men is not that difficult, as long as you avoid over- feminizing things. For example, i was in a class taught by this one female teacher--she's great--and she was going on and on about how "we as women" do X Y or Z and that "we as women" need to be in touch with A B or C and how yoga really helps that. And there is a guy in the class. UHM, how does he get to relate, yo? That's not right.
oh, and i do tell slightly, just barely, off color jokes.
When a guy is in my class and i make a specificly gender specific statement, such as "when you're pregnant, this really helps with the birth process." and then i'll track over to Jack and say "right Jack?" and everyone giggles a bit. One summer all the gals in my one class were talking about wanting to wear miniskirts (even though they're all over 35 gasp!), and asked if we could do leg poses for miniskirt stuff. So, we joked about how the two guys in class were really getting ready for miniskirt season. It was a riot, not to take things too seriously, and once summer hit, they actually both wore a miniskirt to one of the classes--JOKERS! But, it was fun because it was human and real.
Maybe i can just get away with this stuff. I dunno.
But i don't change the class for men. they're either going to respond to my style or they're not--and most do. i like men in my classes, because they have such great energy and add a fabulous, playful dynamic to the whole thing. When things get to heavy and serious, you can rely on their mercurial natures to come right out. Occassionally, i've had to hem them in a bit (a comment being a little too sexual or off color), but they're generally so good natured and earnest that it's no problem to teach them.
Also, lots of "i'm so glad that you're here" and "you're doing great" and also actively noticing improvements, such as "wow, your hamstrings are really opening up" even if it's only slightly, is a great way to keep them coming. being in a mostly-female class with barely-clad women who can do things a lot better than they can (usually because they're more experienced) can be intimidating to a guy. So, i find that being encouraging in this specific way can be very helpful for male client retention.
I hope it doesn't sound patronizing or whatever. I love having men in my classes. My mostly-guys class is fantastic. they're so much fun.
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| zoebird - 2006-01-02 2:29 PM
But, i find that teaching men and attracting men is not that difficult, as long as you avoid over- feminizing things.
There's another good explaination.
For example, i was in a class taught by this one female teacher--she's great--and she was going on and on about how "we as women" do X Y or Z and that "we as women" need to be in touch with A B or C and how yoga really helps that. And there is a guy in the class. UHM, how does he get to relate, yo? That's not right.
Beem there, done that, gone back to deal with the ugliness of being in an uncomfortable situation.
When things get to heavy and serious, you can rely on their mercurial natures to come right out. Occassionally, i've had to hem them in a bit (a comment being a little too sexual or off color), but they're generally so good natured and earnest that it's no problem to teach them.
Which is the odd thing about men in yoga classes, we tend to act very similarily.
being in a mostly-female class with barely-clad women who can do things a lot better than they can (usually because they're more experienced) can be intimidating to a guy.
OMG, yes! OTOH, it's a great ego buster, not that most men want their egos busted. |
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| Maybe I'm off base, but I feel like a good yoga class doesn't have time to talk about chakras much. I tend towards Ashtanga and Bikram, both 90 minute classes, and I am grateful the instructors don't delve into too much na-noo-na-noo.
Sounds like the Bally's teacher is being conscientious about group dynamics, especially in a gym where they probably have another type of class scheduled right after Hatha Yoga. Gym yoga is gym yoga and it has it's pluses and minuses. Gym yoga needs to fit into the Gestalt of the gym. Being a yoga snob, I prefer shelling out $$$ at a yoga studio. However, that all could change with upcoming time constraints. In that case, I will feel grateful to have the convenience of taking yoga classes at the same place I use the treadmill, weights, sauna...
Good luck! |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| It's true that you can have a lot of fun with the male/female dynamic in class. I once instructed to put a prop about bra strap level and then went on to try to explain better for the men when one guy chirped up with "WE know where it is!" 
And it sure makes the om's and invocation great to have some bass notes - I love it! |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | Hey Zoe, I didn't mean to say that this woman didn't know her stuff. What I meant was she did not explain anything. I mean anything. Maybe it is the gym setting. When we came up into warrior, she didn't explain the importance of keeping the spine in alignment, no placement of hands, feet, ankles, knees, etc.. I kind of felt like everyone was visually watching and no guidance on where their bodies should be, where their knees should be, ankle, etc.....
There was so much misalignment in the class I was dying. I wanted to walk around and gently guide others to correct form. I would never do that but it's hard as a instructor to not look around at the students, especially since I was there to check out the style of the class and report back.
But as I said, I thought this woman was good. She's a prime example of what a lifetime of yoga can do for a body!
Yesterday I took the class of the other instructor. Many of my students said they didn't like this woman's class so I was very curious. I thought she was great!!! Even her instruction was great. After the class was over my girlie pal said "She was better today". I thought she was very good. I told my girlfriend maybe you caught her class on a off day, she's only human.
The main reason I am looking forward to working in this gym is not so much the men. Men come with the Ballys package. And jeans, I have a few men in my other classes and they are a trip. I laugh with them all the time. Personally I think they enjoy being surrounded by woman 
Anyway, most of the classes I teach are of students that are just starting a new fitness routine. In Ballys, these are dedicated fitness people. They are strong. I don't want to teach another Gentle Yoga class. I want to teach a strong vinyasa class format. I want to challenge them with something that they have not yet experienced. I think they will like it a lot. Especially the ones that think they are so strong they can handle anything that comes their way.
In the DoJo I teach, I had to give a demo class to the owners, (three men own it). The class was 3 men owners, their wives, and two of their kickboxing instructors. I was so nervous. The three men are 3rd-5th degree black belts. They are strong. I think they were suprised at how difficult it was to hols warrior I, plank, boat, etc...... I think the realization that yoga is not just sitting crossed legged and chanting Om, which so many men think that is what it is (at least most of my males friends make stupid comments like this), is what inspires me to get men into the class.
I try to grap men from the kickboxing classes to try it, but they are coming off of a KB class and that is not how they should try it. their muscles are too fatigued. I've had a few slip into my class after they took a previous class and they all have walked out half into the class because their muscles couldn't handle it.
For my students who have been with me over a year, they love when I pound them with a dynamic flow class (ok, i know some will think I shouldn't use those terms, maybe the wrong wording but you know what I mean) PLus I can turn up the thermostat in this class. I don't have control of that in my other places.
YIPEE!!!!!! I can't wait to get in there!!!!! 
Mishy |
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Personally I think they enjoy being surrounded by woman
Oh, no, that's really dreadful, anything but that! (Okay, maybe a little)
was so nervous. The three men are 3rd-5th degree black belts. They are strong. I think they were suprised at how difficult it was to hols warrior I, plank, boat, etc...... I think the realization that yoga is not just sitting crossed legged and chanting Om, which so many men think that is what it is (at least most of my males friends make stupid comments like this), is what inspires me to get men into the class.
I've met a lot of Martial Artists who really aren't in good shape. The classes are okay for building muscle, and at least your moving around, but they don't require anything near the level of a 1 1/2 yoga class where all you're doing in hard physical exercise.
Also, lots of things are hard until you learn the movements, and you body adjusts to them. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Mish - I can feel your excitement! I know what you are talking about with the gentle stuff. It is nice, it is fun and there are times when I think I could teach that way forever but after awhile it gets to be draining. I have just taught one class a week for the past 2 weeks and they have both been restorative and I am thinking part of the "problem" if you want to call it that. is that the students go inward more and there is less feedback to the teacher as the class goes on. I find they don't give me as much eye contact and often look very subdued so it is hard for me to tell how they are doing in individual poses.
So enjoy making your new group work hard! |
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| Hey Zoe, I didn't mean to say that this woman didn't know her stuff. What I meant was she did not explain anything. I mean anything. Maybe it is the gym setting. When we came up into warrior, she didn't explain the importance of keeping the spine in alignment, no placement of hands, feet, ankles, knees, etc.. I kind of felt like everyone was visually watching and no guidance on where their bodies should be, where their knees should be, ankle, etc.....
There was so much misalignment in the class I was dying. I wanted to walk around and gently guide others to correct form. I would never do that but it's hard as a instructor to not look around at the students, especially since I was there to check out the style of the class and report back.
i've had similar experience, though generally not with experienced teachers. in my area, many of us are trained to adjust, describe these things, and focus on safety and alignment. but, there is another training school in my area that focuses on the other aspects of yoga--philosophy and such--and so they dont' care about alignment. Their classes are 1.5 hours. .5 of that time is spent in a lecture. then, 1 hour is spent moving through gentle movements. The teacher's demonstrate, and they don't give a whole lot of alignment cues and they only demonstrate.
When these teachers end up in the gym setting, their lecture aspect (where they really show their knowledge) is completely truncated or removed. then, you come into the class and you get very little of anything except demonstration and "doesn't that feel good?" and i see groups of people doing all sorts of things that are gonig to lead to injury. And these teachers tell me, when i talk to them about it, that the asana alignment doesn't matter as much as getting into the body and the meditative aspect, so they don't worry about it.
but, i still want to give adjustments. LOL
I teach in a number of gyms where people appear to have a basic level of fitness. It takes time to perpare them for a vigorous vinyasa class. For some, it can take a year--and that's if you don't have people floating in and out, which you usually do with a gym. While it's possible. it's taken 5 years for me to build my one gym class up to being a class where we can do all sorts of crazy arm balances and inversions. But, that's ONE of the THREE classes that i teach for that gym. The other two are very different. Even though many of the clients are the same, the other two often have more beginners in them--who come and go on a regular basis. So, it's hard for me to work that class as hard as i can the other class. And when the other class has a newbie, we back it off for them. So, while i feel your excitement and i get your whole thing, it may still take time to get them to the space where they can handle a vinyasa class that incorporates a lot of strength moves.
(and, i'm under the impression that most of the 'strength' moves that we think of involve less strength and more balance than anyhting else. Men muscle through it--often with terrible alignment--because they can muscle through it. Women will take the time to learn the alignment and develop the strength. i often have to fight with really strong men to get them to go into the appropriate alignment for chaturanga, for example, because they can muscle their way through it instead of actually doing the posture. So be mindful of this too).
THis is not to be discouraging, just be mindful. You will have a generally more fit class, and this is an opportunity to step things up. But don't be in a hurry with them. Take the time to give them the foundations and then everyone will have a better time and be able to move more quickly into the vinyasa segment once you get a core group who really has an understanding of the movement.
It's really fun.  |
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| I think that the woman was giving what works; if there were enough people in class, that means what she does works for the atmosphere. Most people do not go to a gym to do yoga as a spirtual or deep experience. Gyms offer it because it's hot and will probably make money, and some gym franchises (now Golds) MUST offer x amount of classes, and sometimes that can be as specific to include Yoga. Fifteen years ago it would have been a Step class we were talking about maybe!
But you also have to look inward. She didn't teach your way, but she was good in her own right. Detailed on where to place the body, which is important for newbies who you don't want to injure.
Also, in a gym exerience, the folks were probably already informed and had to sign waivers per their health. Most people with high blood pressure or other contradictions to exercise already are aware of those limitations if they are at the gym....
And your comment about men.. not sure about that one. Men, women - they are all human - be happy no matter who you have in your class - regardless of gender. This makes me wonder if you are going to favor the men... probably not, but if you are excited for men to come into the class, the energy of YOU will be different toward them...get my drift? No favoritism! |
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What's your feeling on style??
