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Need some info please?????
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mishoga
Posted 2005-12-06 8:22 AM (#38316)
Subject: Need some info please?????



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Have some questions for you teachers. Are there any teachers out there who presently teach preschool yoga? If so, will you share some ideas with me? I presently teach in one preschool but that only involves one visit a month. I just signed a contract for a Montessori school once a week and need to make up a program outline . Would appreciate any and all suggestions.

How would you modify chaturanga dandasana, and ahdo mukha savasana (and similar poses, surya namaskar. etc...) for persons who suffer from carpal tunnel syndrome?

Thanks all in advance
Mishy

Edited by mishoga 2005-12-06 8:23 AM
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Posted 2005-12-06 8:52 AM (#38319 - in reply to #38316)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????


Mish--Preschoolers who suffer from carpal tunnel syndrome?  Good Grief...or are you getting the teachers too? Here's something that might help for the kiddies: Jenny Loves Yoga

http://www.readinga-z.com/newfiles/levels/o/jennylovesyogao.html

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mishoga
Posted 2005-12-06 9:16 AM (#38320 - in reply to #38316)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????



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Bruce, you are funny!!!!
Two different situations.
Have this monday night viniyoga class, lots of strength. It's a session of 8 classes. Completed the thrid class lastnight. Of course people neglect to tell you they suffer from pre-existing conditions, even after you asked the class in the beginning. Well, three students informed me lastnight that they have carpal (of course that didn't come out until I asked once again if they have any issues)
Mish
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kulkarnn
Posted 2005-12-06 9:30 AM (#38322 - in reply to #38316)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????


Mish:
Why do you want to teach Chaturanga Dandasana and Adho Mukhshwanasana to a person with Carpal Tunnel Syndrome?

About children, keep them happy, and not serious. I taught last year a class with two 3.5 year olds, two or three 5 year olds, and some 7 to 9 year olds. May be I shall post a picture one day soon. Hey Brother Bruce, do you want to be my secretary also? Are you exclusive to that New Zealand person?

Neel Kulkarni
http://www.authenticyoga.org
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jeansyoga
Posted 2005-12-06 9:40 AM (#38323 - in reply to #38316)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????


YogaKids has a great book with tons of fun ideas! I love it!

As for carpal tunnel, you may ask them if rolling up a towel to grip helps at all. Some poses just may not be appropriate for them at this time. Lotus Mudra can provide a great stretch for the cramped up hands, they should practice that often!
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mishoga
Posted 2005-12-06 10:09 AM (#38330 - in reply to #38316)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????



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Jeans, love your pic! You both look so happy!!!!!! I just purchased the KidsYoga book. Waiting for it to come. I love teaching the two classes I have now (3 & 4 year olds) it's a lot of fun but so much energy. I feel like I've taught a 3 hour power yoga class when I'm done with the children. I want to sit at the end of class and have conversations to teach them how to deal with certain emotions but on a child friendly level. I have two girlfriends that teach childrens yoga but they don't want to share any ideas (personally I don't like that they will not share their knowledge)

Neel, it's not that I wanted to teach that sequence. I teach a strong class, which was stated in the advertisement. Like I stated, this is the third class. I've asked a few times if there were any pre-existing conditions and all were quiet (which so often seems to happen). After class ended lastnight, I asked if anyone was having difficulty with the class. A few women raised their hands and said that their wrists were hurting. I stated that this is common with beginners and they should be mindful of where their limitations are and respect those limitations as their practice will change over time. I then stated that unless there was a condition such as Carpal Tunnel, which at that point they stated they did have that. Well they never said that when I asked several times prior if they have pre-existing conditions.
I want to know how to modify so that the format of the class doesn't have to change tempo. There are 27 enrolled in this class and three that suffer from the Carpal. Any suggestions?


Mishy
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kulkarnn
Posted 2005-12-06 12:12 PM (#38340 - in reply to #38316)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????


Oh Dear SisMish:
Now I understand. Suggestion is as follows: Inform in each class: ' I am now going to teach a series of exercises done in a particular way which is designed or meant for the entire class average. Those of you who find it painful to do any of the poses must a)either NOT do them at all OR b) inform me an injury before the class so that I watch you while doing exercise. For example those with Carpal Tunnel Syndrome should not do any hand balances if the condition is severe'.

Now Dear SisMish: My above answer is with the way you are teaching that class. That does not mean I shall teach that class same way or I need to do the above announcement. I might do altogether different thing.

Neel Kulkarni
http://www.authenticyoga.org
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mishoga
Posted 2005-12-06 4:04 PM (#38354 - in reply to #38316)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????



Expert Yogi

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Ahhhhhhhhh, brother Neel, I see what you mean
I like to start this class off with a short stretching of the spine then warm up with a series of four rounds of sun A then four rounds of sun B, flowing right into our workout. All postures flow from one into the other from the sun A transition to give more intensity. For the most part, in the classes that I do teach this format, they seem to love it. I encourage grunting and even allow a slight curse to slip out if it keeps them focused and enjoying the practice. I know it sounds unconventional but I am a unconventional gal
Do you have another routine I could incorporate that you care to share.
Share brotha.....share away!!!!!!

Mishy I love constructive critisism (different from subtle insults! )nothin intended here Neel, just a statement!

Edited by mishoga 2005-12-06 4:07 PM
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kulkarnn
Posted 2005-12-06 5:58 PM (#38370 - in reply to #38316)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????


What an unconventional sister with unconventional routine! This is my unconventional suggestion:

1. It seems that you are decided to teach a Flow Class with predecided flow to be followed by all students. This flow automatically involves use of wrist. So, this class is NOT suitable for those with Carpal Syndrome.

2. Either the class has to come out of the Flow mode. Or, the Carpals have to leave the class. Or, they have to be given a separate instruction.

Neel Kulkarni
http://www.authenticyoga.org
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mishoga
Posted 2005-12-06 6:30 PM (#38372 - in reply to #38316)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????



Expert Yogi

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Yeah, deep down I knew that to be the truth. I was sad lastnight after everyone left. I teach so many gentle yoga classes and it's so refreshing to beef it up a little. I become very jaded instructing the same way over and over. I do like dynamic movement. I guess it's the aerobic 1980's instructor in me coming out. Actually believe it or not, I teach a kick booty Hip Hop class. I still get a thrill teaching a high movement, sweat class.
How do you go about promoting a class without excluding some? I need to perfect my skills in PR and how I sell each class style. I don't mind teaching slow, gentle classes but I have to admit, the more I teach and the more classes I take personally, the more I want to take courses for Asthanga and change the direction of my classes. I love to practice Asthanga (I think I'm spelling it wrong. I've seen it this way and another. Which is correct?

Really......how do I promote a highly dynamic class flow. What do I say? How do I phrase it. I have 5 more sessions left to this class.
Mishy
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tourist
Posted 2005-12-06 7:05 PM (#38378 - in reply to #38372)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????



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Mish - I know how hard it is when they just will NOT tell you what their problem is! Frustrating when you think you may have been giving them instructions that could make the condition worse.

You could try having them do down dog gripping the edges of their mat. It is a fairly simple mod and no need to interrupt the flow. Chaturanga can be done as "sphinx" on the forearms. That may help. You could also do a little down dog before you begin the vinyasa and work on grounding through the "roots" fo the fingers and all the good stuff you probably already know. If they can tolerate that then maybe it will be ok.

Frankly, I am a bit sick of hearing about "carpal tunnel" since I think it is largely self-diagnosed nonsense. (Hmmm...I am a bit grumpy this evening. I guess this is what someone meant about "tone" in a recent post! ) I know of someone who was convinced she had CT - in her non-dominant wrist without having any new repetitive movements in her daily life. It was a SORE WRIST for g*d's sake! Put a wrap on it, rest it, take some advil...
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kulkarnn
Posted 2005-12-07 10:03 AM (#38408 - in reply to #38316)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????


SisMish:
I do not understand the term 'Promoting a highly dynamic class'.

neel kulkarni
http://www.autheticyoga.org
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mishoga
Posted 2005-12-07 2:00 PM (#38424 - in reply to #38316)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????



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These classes are self promoted. I don't work for anyone but myself. I rent space and do all distribution of flyers, literature, and place ads in newspapers.
So they way I word it is very important. Wehn I term a class as Gentle yoga stretch, (I teach two classes as such in two different locations) I usually have a student base with the majority 50-75 years old.
I want to target a class that there is a certain fitness level with general good health to begin with.
I hope I described that correctly.
Mish
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kulkarnn
Posted 2005-12-07 2:17 PM (#38427 - in reply to #38316)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????


Good SisMish. Then, you are the boss. Just write in your flier a) This class is for certain level of fitness, and athletic fit. It is certainly not advised for those with Carpal... b) Those who wish to take gentler class, can go to my such and such another class.

Neel Kulkarni
http://www.authenticyoga.org
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Orbilia
Posted 2005-12-08 7:03 AM (#38469 - in reply to #38378)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????


Tourist,
I have nerve damage in both wrists as a result of my first job. I haven't found any great issues doing yoga though. In fact, it's probably improved matters as the asanas have opened up the wrist bones a bit. The only time I have trouble tends to be in seated spinal twists as reflexing my wrists back to 90 degrees gives my pins and needles and numbness in the fingers. Pressing the palm flat and engaging the knuckle at the bottom of the index finger tends to cure this. If not, bending the end of the mat back so the hand is still flat but not with a 90 degree bend works.

I usually practise part of the pawanmaktasana (rhumatic series) from my Sivananda yoga as a warm up. This includes several arm/wrist exercises so it may be worth getting those with carpal tunnel syndrom to practise these at home and as a warm-up in class?

Fee

Fee

tourist - 2005-12-07 12:05 AM

Mish - I know how hard it is when they just will NOT tell you what their problem is! Frustrating when you think you may have been giving them instructions that could make the condition worse.

You could try having them do down dog gripping the edges of their mat. It is a fairly simple mod and no need to interrupt the flow. Chaturanga can be done as "sphinx" on the forearms. That may help. You could also do a little down dog before you begin the vinyasa and work on grounding through the "roots" fo the fingers and all the good stuff you probably already know. If they can tolerate that then maybe it will be ok.

Frankly, I am a bit sick of hearing about "carpal tunnel" since I think it is largely self-diagnosed nonsense. (Hmmm...I am a bit grumpy this evening. I guess this is what someone meant about "tone" in a recent post! ) I know of someone who was convinced she had CT - in her non-dominant wrist without having any new repetitive movements in her daily life. It was a SORE WRIST for g*d's sake! Put a wrap on it, rest it, take some advil...


Edited by Orbilia 2005-12-08 7:05 AM
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Posted 2005-12-08 7:51 AM (#38470 - in reply to #38316)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????


those postures are actually great for healing carpel tunnel. i've had many clients with both CTS and tendonitis do those postures and their bodies healed faster than their doctor's other patients with the same problem. The CTS patients were able to avoid surgery.

my recommendation is to have the chaturanga dandhasana done with the knees on the floor. and, have them only do as many as they feel comfortable doing. you may also want to teach them a mudra series that they can do outside of class. I like this one:

Inhale, prayer mudra--keeping the palms pressing together, press the wrists downward as the elbows move up slightly.

Exhale, turn the hands over so that the back of the hands press together, fingertips pointing down. draw the wrists up and elbows down.

INhale, make the 'ok' symbol with both hands, and have the fingers extend upward while bringing the thumb/index finger tips together.

exhale, flip the ok symbol so that the palm faces toward the body and the fingers extend downward (still keeping thumbs together).

INhale, flip the right ok hand upward (palm out), keeping the left downward (palm in)--yin/yang version

exhale, flip the right ok hand downward (palm in), bringing the left one upward (palm out)--other yin/yang!

Then, begin again with prayer mudra and repeat a number of times.
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tourist
Posted 2005-12-08 12:04 PM (#38505 - in reply to #38469)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????



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Fee - sorry to hear that. Yes, there are certainly those with bona fide injuries. I was just a bit grumpy the other night As you have found though, it is better to work and find ways to improve the situation than to stop doing anything at all. And usually there are ways to work that will not further injure the nerves and may even enhance healing, though sometimes you have these conditions more or less permanently. My DH hs nerve damage in one calf that he all but forgets about until we have a big storm system moving in. Then it aches and aches until the storm actually starts And yes, keeping the wrists and shoulders free and working well will always make things better - injuries or not. I have been told that a lot of carpal tunnel and other wrist conditions are really shoulder-related. When I see the tightness of many new student's shoulders, this does not surprise me.
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laurajhawk
Posted 2005-12-08 1:01 PM (#38510 - in reply to #38372)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????


mishoga - 2005-12-06 4:30 PM
... How do you go about promoting a class without excluding some?


Hi Mishy,
I think Neel had the best idea here. We all know that different styles and levels of class are appropriate for different people -- this means exclusion, of a sort. You should be encouraging people to try your flow class, and you should be telling the benefits of this class, but if it is not appropriate for an individual you should be able to recommend a different class to them. Recommending your own gentle class is great, but if you did not teach enough of a range of classes for everyone, you should even be able to recommend another teacher (and have him/her do the same for you!). It's not possible or even desirable to serve every student with one class.

On the topic of wrist problems -- I had some wrist pain (*not* CT, I suppose) from repetitive stress. On the worst days, I had to avoid flow yoga or modify a lot (to avoid putting weight on that wrist), but on most days I found that it was actually helpful for the wrist to move in some different ways. Eventually I ended the wrist problem by changing my work setup (mostly by getting a new keyboard, also changed my chair adjustment etc. with the help of an ergonomic specialist).
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Orbilia
Posted 2005-12-08 1:25 PM (#38512 - in reply to #38505)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????


Tourist, I knew a grump when I saw one *ducks out of the way quick*

I find sudden changes in atmospheric temperature will set mine off. Oddly it tends to be worse when the weather gets suddenly hot than vice versa. But then you knew I'm odd, right?

Fee
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tourist
Posted 2005-12-08 6:37 PM (#38546 - in reply to #38512)
Subject: RE: Need some info please?????



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Fee - it takes one to know one, eh?

Laura - I had wrist problems quite a few years ago now when I did some commuting to a job where I did data entry. Oddly, I thought, it was on my left hand and I assumed it was because I wasn't then used to doing so much computer work. Eventually I figured out I could do the keyboarding as long as I didn't do the drive (we had a modem to the office looong before most folks had the internet). Over time I figured out that I had been driving with my left elbow on the door arm rest of my car and it was actually the vibration of the 40 minute drive that was setting off the whole problem. As soon as I quit doing that, I was fine! So the moral is, it is important to look at what else in your life may be contributing to the problem.
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