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| I have now been doing Bikram for nearly 3 months.
I love the sequence for the spine.. I love many things about it.
MY CONCERN that wants some acknowlegement since I am doing the program with my 100% heart and effort.
(Y'all probably know I have chronic pain, fibro .. injuries that dont heal, pain that doesnt turn off)
When I first started Bikrams the instructors kept telling me the pain I had was was normal.. and in two weeks I would be much better.
Well.. I KNOW they dont know.. but I DO my best to have faith and work with what I am and the best I can.
Two weeks, yoga everyday the pain wasnt gone.. (not a surprise)
Threee months later the pain isnt gone.. it shifts as it has for 19 years....
Now when I talk to my teachers they say nothing.. seemingly dismiss my concerns.
It pisses me off that they first tell me it will heal me...then ignore my concerns when it didnt.
I know they have their hands tied and cant say much because what they can or can not say is so limited.
I feel very blown off by the teachers (which doesnt effect my yoga practice)
I also know it up to me to take care of myself .. but something seems wrong even though I am the only one who thinks so!
They asked for my trust, daily commitment and a good deal of $$ (I did buy a year)
Do you who teach Bikrams ever feel like you are not doing the best for your students?
Really, I think I am just looking for validation to ease the "dissonance in my mind... what they say.. them claiming to be the experts.. me thinking maybe they arent but wanting to trust they are... etc!!!
And I should add, I have learned a lot in Bikrams.. like to move past a lot of my reservations. I THANK my teachers wisdom every day for that.
Edited by Miss Mewer 2005-10-25 1:40 PM
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| Oh boy, there's lots on this topic on previous threads. We've debated newly certified yoga instructors vs. veteran yoga instructors, Bikram vs. any other type of yoga besides Bikram, 105 degrees vs. 90 degrees....you name it. You're going to love reading all the global input!
Welcome to yoga.com |
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| Are there other styles of yoga studios in your area? Maybe you could check out a few other classes, different kinds of yoga? Perhaps you'll find another style of asana practice where it does make a difference in the way your body feels.
Pablo Domene Lee
http://www.pablodomenelee.com
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| oh yes, I have done a lot of yoga in my town!..
Bikrams is the best in many ways for me - other yoga is good for other things..
Nothing makes my body feel better than Bikrams
but I can get hurt easily and if I do it can be permanent so I feel I do need to ask for attention when something starts hurting that didnt hurt before..
At the moment I have a tweak in my kne/hip that I think has something to do with a posture in Bikrm's I would like to talk and explore it with a teacher.
My main point is why cant my teachers talk with me as if my concerns are unique?
Is it safe that the teachers stick to the program in every case without paying attention?
Rajashree has a background with chronic conditions. I asked my teachers to talk with her to see if she had experience that could benefit me.. so far they havent.
But I do love working with the heat and having teachers who really keep people working.
I never work so hard else where or feel so proud that I have. A few adjustments might be needed but I like Bikrams.. and I just paid for a year of it!
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| You have very vaild points. I'd say go to bikramyoga.com and click on the "Contact Us" link on the bottom left. Both Bikram's and Rajashree's email address are listed. I think you would make a excellent example of someone they would want to explain things further to, in order to help you beyond what the teachers at your particular studio seem to be providing you with. I'd be interested in knowing the response you get back from them.
Pablo Domene Lee
http://www.pablodomenelee.com |
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| Miss Mewer - 2005-10-25 10:40 PM
My main point is why cant my teachers talk with me as if my concerns are unique?
Is it safe that the teachers stick to the program in every case without paying attention?
ANSWER: Because your unique concerns are not part of the dialogue they learn in Bikram teacher training. They learn generic stuff like "no pain, no gain" and the idea that every pain comes from a toxin in your body. Bikram Yoga is great but when you get a dingbat teacher that doesn't think for herself then you're in trouble.
If the studio doesn't accommodate you then you have every right to demand your money back. F*** their "no refund policy" PS - Where do you practice?
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| good idea Pablo. I should write directly to Rajashree.
I read a testimonal by someone on the Bikram site with my conditon... they said they had fantastic benefits in just a short time
... but they didnt say if they had the contdition for one month or for decades..
Its so misunderstood and mis- diagnosed that its frustrating to talk aobut.
My doctor knows less about it than I can write on this page.. my specialist knows just as little.
Any number of people tell me they have the cure if I have 1000$ and 6 months!.. its frustrating!
and everyone but the Bikram people will tell me to go rest.. which I have done for 19 years and gotten weaker for it
I LOVE that I get pushed to not give up in Bikram ..
Many things if not the pain are improving.
My mind has benefited most.
That has been a miracle to break out mind out of my chronic pain trapped thinking .. discouragment and coddling.
My latest plan is just to be deaf when I am being instructed against what I am sure is causing me a problem.
And to do an alternate practice of gentle yoga several days a week and nothing at least one day a week.
Its good to get perspectives on Bikrams from those who know enough to discuss the pros and cons.
Fifi,
i rather not publicly say where I practice as I enjoy the freedom to speak openly here without worrying about offending my teachers who I am grateful to for their best efforts and passion even if it doesnt fit me perfectly
I am truly grateful for them believing as strongly as they do in the yoga.
I believe in it too..
just need some intelligent conversation when questions come up.
thank you all.
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| Miss Mewer, I have the same feeling about fibro. I don't think we know anything about it. I am a rolfer and we are stumped on fibro. Being connective tissue people you would think we would. My insight , which is unexplored to see if it is true, is that the core of the foot has gone up the legs and above the hips causing the soul of the foot to not have much rejuvination, causing the connective tissue to try and make up for it. I mean energetic core. I beleive the changes will be deep to unravel this pain. And their is nothing like pain to get our attention and expand our compassion. Pain is not exactly what we think it is when we give it our full attention. I hope your pain helps in growth and just does not torment you.  |
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| Innerline,
Thank you for your thoughtful note.
I have lost a lot due to this condition..
a Ph.D.. a life as a dancer, my way home, my memory, love, money, the ability to do the things I do very well, the feeling of control in my life, the ability to work, retirement... etc etc.
BUT
I have gained humility and the ability to understand and care for others in a way I never did before. I do believe what I can give is the gift I get from this condition...
I am pleased to give what I can.
and I believe connective tissue is a big deal in this condition... I am very slow to move out of any position I am in for any amount of time..
Edited by Miss Mewer 2005-10-26 8:43 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Miss Mewer,
If I may be so bold to add something and please do not take this in a negative way...but, there is a level of student responsibility too when it comes to any Yoga practice. By student responsibility I mean allowing respect for where you are at and being able to distinguish between something that may be harmful etc.
Now, the fun part is that when I am in a certain mood when I go to my studio or if I KNOW that I cannot handle a certain posture that day, I will pull my instructor aside or I will tell her outright what is going on with me. So far she honors that and by her knowing my condition that day and by me being very specific, my instructor helps me with modifications or basically leaves me alone when I'm not doing something according to the class flow. I've never had anyone over push me in yoga before, but I'm also very in tuned to what is going on with me that I don't have a problem speaking up. Perhaps this year's membership will help you learn what your capabilities are and how to deal directly with your instructors. This is a two-way street and by God if I pay money for something, I am going to give it right back if they try to give me a hard time. Not even a true Yoga Guru would try to dominate you in that manner.
As for your condition itself....I have a friend with this problem and the one thing I've noticed is that she tends to really focus on her problems. Since your doing this Bikram practice, is there any way you can use that strong mind focus that you mentioned that you gained and not focus on the problems and allow your body to re-balance itself naturally without having a plan?? If the pain is too severe and you really can't take it anymore, I would suggest using Acupuncture like we talked about on the other thread to ease your pain. Then when you are feeling better and rested, try it again. The only other thing I can add is, don't be in competition with yourself and don't put yourself on a time table and lastly, if your trying to get your $$ worth for the year by attending as many classes as you can just because you paid for it...then you will wipe out very fast. Take lots of breaks and Let it all go!
Cyndi |
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| I am chuckling..
I started this post after trying to explain to my teacher what was happening from my hip to knee to calf.. a very new problem... she told me my zipper was open.
and thank you Cyndi.. your advice is excellent on my responsibilty. I am looking for good info. I am not always the best judge of what I do not know about and This practice is teaching me to open to others ideas ... I just need experience to know who has good ones for me and who doesnt.
Keeping my Zipper up is good, no? 
Edited by Miss Mewer 2005-10-26 9:15 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Well, no one says you have to do anything. Besides, what would happen if you went your own pace?? Are they going to kick you out, manhandle you into the posture the way they want you to be, revoke your yearly membership (which IMO should be refunded at this point).
I swear I think I'm going to sneak into a Bikram studio and actually see what happens. Cause I would never take that and if I were determined to make it, I would just simply REBEL,  |
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| The question I want to know before rebelling .. are they right, can I learn something. If there is magic I dont want to get in its way with all my old know it alls.
If they dont know what they are doing.. I will definately take over..
Which is why I am here asking question.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | That is an excellent question and I would venture to say that they are probably 75% right and there is something major that you can learn from this. Also, bear in mind, that due to the shuffling around of your internal organs and internal everything, in the beginning you might find yourself being somewhat sensitive to - EVERYTHING. The first person to blame will be the teacher - I have experienced this in ALL my yoga trainings. Sometimes I just want to hit them, beat them up and tell them to go F*** themselves. Then after I look very deeply into myself, analyze it, I always find that it was my experience and I needed that. I did this a couple of times with my instructor but I always came around and knew that I was not going to burn the relationship just because I was having a hard time getting it. I did get it, I learned to not worry so much about details and kept on going. I let it go. Having listened to Bikram himself on tape after my instructor's workshop and training experience, I felt a sense of comfort with Bikram and felt that if I kept doing the practice I will benefit greatly - which I did. I am quite sure not everyone has this same experience with Bikram, but I did and am okay to this day. I finally reached a plateau and am venturing into new levels of my practice and that I'm really thrilled about. Like sometimes I think I've taken 10 steps backwards, when in fact, I am right exactly where I should be if not further along than I thought. That is the beauty of sticking with something and not listening to other's negativity and searching deep down in your soul for what is right for you and listening to your body. But, I still can be a rebel too, 
Edited by Cyndi 2005-10-26 9:36 PM
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| The process is fascinating me.. I love it.
I do this class because I am delighted to have the chance to do the work, inside and out. mind, body.
When I paid for a year, I called it my vacation. It truely is. Hard as can be but I love the work, every aspect.
Frees me from everything else.
(a note on your friend..for a moment imagine, never for a moment not being aware of pain in your body ..The brain produces a realm of pyschological fear and dispair just from feeling pain and knowing its consequences...
its a drag for friends. Very few people can befriend a person with pain without feeling frustration because they cant help... but
all you need to do is acknowlge your friend ..
I think the hardest thing about it is that it is invisible. I look like an athlete, no one would know .. and for 15 years no one believed and no one can help
....btw.
Accupunture was one of my 1000$ expenditures, made it really bad.. changing ones mindset works nice though.
The intensity of the yoga really gives me an escape. |
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| MM-I don't have fibro but I have lupus (and my mom has fibro so I really do get it). For me, the bikram series has been VERY helpful-I came to it "needing" a knee replacement and taking 2 kinds of chemo, and 2 years later I am off all meds and feeling great, also still in possession of my very own knee joint.
That said, I have had several long periods of setbacks where everything hurt, I was totally exhausted and overwhelmed by the heat etc. Sometimes I take a week off and rest, sometimes I go more often and push through-I kind of follow my gut instinct. I have found staying VERY well hydrated with water and emergen-C helps somewhat.
But I also know that things take me longer to work through than it might take others. My very experienced teacher told me elbows are typically sore in locust for 10 classes, but I should expect 3 months. Let me tell you, it took 18 months but they actually truly don't hurt anymore.
All that to say, trust your body, do what you can, rest if it doesn't feel right.
As for the fibro piece, my personal theory is that it is an energy depletion (not enough chi coming in, too much going out), and that the response of the body is to try to generate energy, which it can only do as inflammation. Hence the pain. For my mom, who is still too incapacitated to think about yoga yet, chi gong has been nearly miraculous in helping her. I have to say, nothing else she has tried has been anywhere near as helpful, and she is happy as a clam, finally. If you are so inclined, maybe give it a try.
Best wishes! Deb |
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| Deb, your personal experience is a gem for me, thank you.
Your teacher's understanding and, advice reinforced by your actual experience is just what I need.
I recognize it all.
18 months.. for locust!
you got there.
I know I am proud of every class I take and respect everyone else in the room .
Sounds like you're gutsy..
I think for some people giving up is not an option, one heck of a blessing to have the will and the opportunity.
My teachers sometimes comment that I smile through the class... I am so grateful to do the work.
Thank you for the Chi Gong suggestion.
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| Thanks, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't one of the Bikram studios where I live b/c I would be pissed off if they took your $$$ without regard to you personally. That's why I don't join yearly - or even monthly.
I'm beginning to think the 90-day challenge or 60-challenge or "it's better to do Bikram every single day" is simply for the teachers and owners to make more money.
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| your original post is really bringing out a lot that all teachers--not just bikram teachers--need to hear and be certain about.
i teach--though not bikram--and i teach a lot of special needs clients. i believe that yoga has the power to deeply heal some one--spiritually, psychologically, and physically--and i trust in that process for myself and for my students. But, i do not claim to be an expert or the origin of that healing. My job is to simply introduce, guide, offer suggestions, and etc. The expert is the student. the origin of the healing is the student. it is the interaction between the student and the discipline of yoga thta allows this healing to unfold.
one of the areas where i struggle with bikram style yoga linquisticly is in their use of the term 'pain' as opposed to discomfort. the type of 'pain' that you feel from fibromyalgia, etc, is a physical indication that something is not right, that it is harmful. in yoga asana practice, one should not feel pain, but rather the therapeutic benefit of discomfort--which is where we are putting the body and energy body in the right place to heal. If we move into the point of pain, we are likely setting ourselves up for injury or further injury.
i do not know what your teachers specificly claim as far as expertise, but simply recognize that you are the expert and you are ultimately the teacher and you are the site and origin of your healing as you engage in this process. Any system will work--bikram is one of them. the main thing is how you engage.
the other thing is what sort of healing the universe (god or whatever you would call it) has in store for you. it may be strikingly different than you expect. |
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| Interesting idea about healing not being what I might expect, Zoebird.
Its pretty much as I view it.
after 19 years.
I learn what I learn in my process and I am becoming someone that can help others with unusual needs.
This is the blessing that I am glad to share.
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Bikram Teachers- responsibilty
