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| This is my first post, and I don't mean to start out negative, but I feel I have to speak.
I LOVE yoga and everything it's done for my body and soul.
I used to LOVE Bikram when I first started out. I live in a colder climate, and have stiff joints, so the heat, while sometimes overwhelming, I could tell that it was helping me with flexibility. Sweat is temporary, but healthy joints are for life.
The heat did bother me a little, though not much. Some of the positions weren't my favorites (esp. the second half on the mat). However, when I first started out, I had a compassionate teacher, who followed the Bikram teachings in that she was strict and advised to do your best to be similar to the teachings, yet she was kind, both to beginners and anyone who was old/out of shape/injured, and would suggest a slight modification if she knew you well and knew you were sincere in your pain.
Unfortunately, nice teacher got pregnant and had to stop due to the heat making her feel nauseous.
A few other teachers I thought were pretty nice moved on as well.
All of a sudden, my studio got several teachers who were totally awful and mean and demeaning. I had one who alleged that my neck pain was "totally in your head" (MRI to prove it, yet somehow I'm making it up?). Another one was similar to a boot camp sergeant, yelling even at the people in the front who I thought were pretty awesome. She would find the one teeny thing they did wrong and criticize it to the max. I knew it wasn't personal as to me, this lady was just mean, and maybe reading Bikram's book she thought this was the norm, but I don't like verbal abuse. I motivate myself, I don't need to be yelled at.
To give you an idea of my personality, I am a Type A overachiever. I try my best at all times and try to do 100% over my own best, yet don't judge others (my competition is myself/I know it's a standard blah blah, but I really mean it). On the other hand, I want this body to last another 50 years, and I'm not willing to hurt myself to fit other's standards. I Type A/overachieve when it is safe, not when someone demands it of me.
I really loved the Bikram series, but unfortunately for me there were several problems. One was the repetitive nature of same, as has been mentioned here before. Like, you never do plank or down dog or some other favorite pose again because it's not the Top 26? Another issue for me was the modificaton thing. I've been to beginner classes at the YMCA, intermediate classes at groovy studios with limber chicks half my age, and attended total beginner classes in churches with older ladies who are willing to give yoga a try, and any good yoga teacher I've ever met knows the difference between someone who is "lazy" and someone who has a genuine need to modify and is trying their best. And, hell, even if someone is "lazy," isn't it better to have a lazy student who is trying at least 50% of the time, than someone at home with the boob tube and couch doing nothing?
I got the Bikram book from the library and I was amazed at the negative, belittling cadence of the text.
I think Bikram heat is a good idea (though 90 degrees and less humid to me would be mecca), and I like most of the poses. The others, well, no one likes all the poses....
What I just don't get is the negativity and the intolerance. If you have a herniated disc in your neck, then the first pose is crazy. Every yoga teacher (non-Bikram), doctor and PT has told me that, yet I was told if I didn't do Pose #1 correctly, then I shouldn't even bother to attend.
Bottom line: I admit, I've only been to one Bikram yoga studio (and for over a year to the same one), but my question is this:
Is this the Bikram mentality (my way or the highway), or is my studio totally hard line?
I bought a ten-card ticket awhile ago, and have a few left, and am a totally thrifty person. However, at this point, I honestly don't want to go back there, even to get three more classes for "free." It's not that I couldn't suck it up and live through the class, it's just that the negative karma scares me and I'm scared I could eventually associate yoga with this bad karma.
I am not targeting Bikram, per se, though that has been my worst experience. I am a long-time yoga person who has had "bad" classes in vinyasa, hatha, etc.; however, I feel that was the teacher not knowing me/understanding me/maybe an inexperienced teacher vs. a mindset of the teacher trained to be negative from the get-go.
To put it in perspective, I noticed this. When the first nice/now pregnant teacher taught beginners the first class, I noticed even the weakest would at least lie on the mat and rest a lot/try their best and not leave the class (first class is free, so you're not losing $$ if you walk out). I noticed with some of the newer teachers that the newbies just say bleep-this and walk out, even sometimes before the second half.
Are compassionate Bikram teachers discouraged in the Bikram world in general, or have I just ran into a bout of bad luck?!
Any input would be appreciated!
Edited by bonita 2006-05-08 11:54 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
    
| Bonita - it looks like you are skipping telling us about it as well! Do come back and tell us. We would love to hear your story |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Thanks Bonita - I thought we had lost you forever  It is interesting to hear from someone who went to Bikram with some other yoga experience. For many it is their first yoga experience. Our good pal Bruce was one of those who walked out of his first class but had a long time injury cured and was lured back. Now he's a teacher - but not a Bikram teacher! I have no Bikram experience because the heat would probably knock me flat on my butt within a few minutes but many others will able to reply with intelligence, or at least strong opinions  |
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| i think the bootcamp mentality is prevalent in bikram yoga.
i certainly bought into it.
the cultivation of 'strength'
...
crushing weakness.
i've had compassionate teachers. they wouldn't so much offer modifications for my junky knees and hips, but they wouldn't try to push me past my limits
and i've had crazed, power-hungry demeaning teachers (one in particular). they would criticize my form without offering useful advice on how to fix it.
plus this teacher knew that i practiced at a non-bikram licensed studio, so she would give me the business extra hard.
its funny, bikram yoga will build great flexibility, but the system itself has so little flexibility:no props, only drink water a couple times, don't screw around!
i kinda feel bad about never having anything good to say about bikram yoga.
it gave me much of the power i have today.
it got my life back together after being in crippling pain
and i don't know if i would have stuck with iyengar yoga initially.
so,
thanks bikram yoga.
you'll always be my first.
...
so, you know...
do what works for you as long as it works for you.
and then change.
don't let people holding strong opinions sway you off of your path.
learn for yourself.
whatever that entails.
those totally awful and mean teachers are people, too.
they have to deal with themselves
your true self knows that you don't need their energy.
theres plenty of other yoga out there for you, you know?
Edited by dhanurasana 2006-05-09 12:57 AM
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| Bonita, Way to express your feelings and thoughts. I am a Bikram/hotyoga teacher. The teachers are just copying the way they were taught at training. It is Bikram's psycopathic masocistic nature spread to the students like a virus. They don't believe in the students ability to develop without the right way. That the right way is dictated from an outside authority and not a inner guidance and knowingness. Cause most Bikram teachers aren't in their truth and knowingness. So it turns out to be the blind leading the blind like so much of history. Follow your bliss. Truth and reality does not care what anybody thinks. It moves and enlightens in itself and knows nothing of darkness. Life challenges us to honor our light by giving up that which has no reality and as such takes our energy to keep going. Which is why traditional Bikram yoga is so forceful. They are hiding the fact that they don't know, so have to project and impose an image that they do. Lots of karma. Peace |
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| Oh, Dhan, you were in crippling pain? I'm glad you're not anymore.
Bonita,
Bikram has its pluses and minuses for sure. One big draw back for me and sound like for you, too, is an inadequately trained teacher insulting your very being by saying your neck pain is psychosomatic. I had the exact same experience. I suppose the numbess in 8/10 fingers is just a hallucination, too, right?
Well, I've said this in previous posts (and I don't mind saying it a million more times) that everyone has a Bikram quota. There's only so many Bkiram classes one can take in one's lifetime until one just can't take it anymore.
It's ok to skip Bikram. Maybe take a class every now and then. Plus, your pregnant teacher won't be pregnant forever! Probably some other yogis on this site will tell you to skip Bikram althogether for the sake of your neck.
Good luck ! |
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| fi-yeah i was in pretty bad shape...and at only 20 years old!
inline-you hit it right on the head.
Edited by dhanurasana 2006-05-09 1:58 AM
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| Some studios, at least in my area anyway, sometimes offer "Hot Yoga" which generally means it's a modified version of the Bikram sequence, modified to be easier for those that need it. Some people prefer this style of class. You should see if there are any studios near you that have these classes.
Another option is to try something like "Baptiste Power Yoga" which is also done in a heated room, although the heat is nowhere near as high as in an actual Bikram studio. This style is a vinyasa flow practice. You might like it.
Or, as another option you could try studios that offer "Power Yoga", which generally means it includes Ashtanga based vinyasa flows and postures. Some studios offer these classes with heat.
Personally, I love practicing with heat. But I usually try to find classes that have "more love in the room" that an actual Bikram studio. If you don't agree with Bikram Choudhury's approach, keep looking around until you find something that feels good for you, on both a physical and a mental level.
Bikram teachers that you don't agree with...just stop going to their classes...or switch studios. Simple. You never know, but maybe other people have completely varying opinions about how a particular teacher teaches and maybe they may not be thinking what you're thinking. Although, in my own personal experience, I've found that I gravitate more to teachers that teach at studios where they're allowed to modify and bring in their own methods to teaching (within context of yoga in a heated room). But of course this doesn't happen at Bikram studios, because they're not allowed.
Pablo Domene Lee
http://www.pablodomenelee.com
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| Thanks everyone for understanding what I was getting at.
I have done "hot yoga" and some of it was Forrest, some hot vinyasa, some "cough cough" very hauntingly similar to the Bikram series (slightly modified but with positive, happy energy, and I'm not telling where/don't wanna get them in trouble with Mssr. Bikram, they called it "power yoga").
The differences between the "hot/power/whatever yoga" and Bikram were threefold:
1) A great attitude, some teachers were tough, some were easier, all were nice in general with no belittlement;
2) All encouraged you not to hurt yourself; and
3) Heat was "only" about 90-95, and humidity was bearable.
My final gripe which escaped me in my original post (I guess I haven't been to Bikram in awhile) is the whole water issue. When the room is spinning and you're seeing aliens because you're not drinking water when you need it, something is inherently wrong. I tried to pre-prepare for this by drinking tons before class, but you're talking to someone who drinks about 12 ounces every hour during the day because I feel a need for it. So even "pre-loading" before class didn't totally do it for me. I tried to be respectful and drink in between postures, but...I got the hairy yogi eyeball.
And another thing....Okay, I'm on a roll....Even the nice teacher claimed that wiping sweat was bad for you. But when you wear contact lenses and the sweat is going to obscure your vision otherwise, then maybe it's better than not wiping?
Anyway, I'm really lucky. My first yoga class teacher (hatha group lesson at the Y) just opened a studio of her own two blocks from my house. She's compassionate, creative and fun and sometimes her classes are exhausting, some meditative, some in between. When I need a change, there are a bunch of other studios within 20 miles. I no longer need the Eville Studio! And I am willing to try Bikram again at another studio, or even go back to mine with a better attitude (i.e., I won't let this get to me), but I need a break, I think.
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Expert Yogi
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Location: A Blue State | Wow, Bonita, I totally understand where you are coming from. I've generally been trying to stay off of this riff, since part of *my* yoga is to avoid dwelling on bad thoughts, but you seem to be asking for others to share their thoughts on this topic...so I will. The nasty teachers you describe are a common part of the Bikram world. It results from what they get from Mr.B during 9 weeks in LA, so far as I can tell. You are absolutely right to view this as their problem and not yours, and you should absolutely not accept their bulls hit reasoning on matters that might affect your own health. I've had some very decent hot yoga teachers, and some good friends in that world. I also think that practicing in a reasonable high heat, like 90-95 degF and modest humidity, is comfortable and even salubrious. The hardline Bikram studios with absurd heat and unknowledgable, dictatorial teachers are just taking advantage of their students' fear of failure. Because these kinds of teachers and studios are out there, I will never go back to Bikram. .... bg |
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| The hardline Bikram studios with absurd heat and unknowledgable, dictatorial teachers are just taking advantage of their students' fear of failure. Because these kinds of teachers and studios are out there, I will never go back to Bikram. .... bg
wow...the studio I attend has really cute instructors that are quite helpful.
With bikram I've gotten the follwoing:
1. the best workout of my life
2. lost 3 lbs a week every week for the past 7 weeks
3. Rapidly reshaping my body and healing injuries
4. Toning my body so fast I should have a six pack in 2 months
5. The cute instructors I mentioned "help" you into more advanced poses. So not only do I get the best workout of my life, I get cute girls all over me while I do it.
So you can pick on bikram all you want but it's one of the best things I've discovered.
In a year will I get bored and try something new? maybe. we'll see... but for now I love it.
I don't understand all this bikram negativity. It seems people absolutely love bikram or they hate it... |
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Location: London, England | Hi all,
As you know, I'm an Astanga yoga person, and in my time at chiro college I developed knowledge in anatomy which helped me make Astanga yoga safer and more powerful for myself and my students. it is difficult for me to say anything about Bikram yoga-I've never done it, for one thing, but I always get put off by the lawsuits and dogma. Those of you who love Bikram often say that you love the heat. When I was a kid, I remember there being an exercise fad which involved donning a silver suit and doing exercise to make you sweat and lose weight. Within a short space of time everyone was laughing at people who bought these suits, because they only made you lose weight through losing water. so i don't understand how twenty-thirty years later, that the silver suit has been re-invented in yogic form?
The reason I am not well qualified to talk about Bikram is partly because of this-any form of exercise that includes exposure to the kind of heat levels that Bikram encourages are baseless and without merit-so I don't spend any time investigating their benefits. I dont mean to be rude or whatever, but all you have to do is go to any exercise physiologist, and watch their face when you describe what you do. If anyone can find me any information on the benefits of exercising in heat, rather than how bad it is for you, which is all I can find, then please tell me.
Obviously, the heat helps you stretch tissues, and this can make people think it's a good thing, but these tissues were often designed to limit movement, so you may be damaging joints and their structures irreparably by exposing them to stretch in these kinds of temperatures. Only time will tell!!
Take care
Nick |
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| You bring up an interesting point, Nick, about the heat. I think we get high from the heat and I wonder if it becomes addictive. It's not addictive the way methamphetamines are but I wonder if it's something the body get used to because it's easier for the body to be warm than it is to be cool. That last statement might not be true.
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Location: London, England | hi Fifi,
Thanks for giving my post the time of day and not dismising it outright, which is knind of what I was expecting. I think you are right about the addiction-there is also a kind of addiction to gurus, which I feel is also prevalent in most forms of yoga. The problem is, the first thing that many people think of when they think of yoga is stretching-the heat emphasizes the ability of the person to stretch (viscosity of fluids goes down in heat), which locks the practicioner into stretching further and further-being flexible does not make us fit or healthy!
Nick |
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| Of course, Nick!
The silver suits are a good (and funny!) example. I remember those.
You brought up a good point about range of motion, too. I have the angel of ROM on one shoulder and the devil of ROM on the other shoulder. While I was reading your initial Bikram post I was thinking to myself "he's right but I still love a deep stretch". I am addicted to stretching!
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| I find the "love it or hate it" feeling about the heat to be really interesting. Some people seem to be genetically predisposed to love heat in a big way. I call them lizards  These folks lie out in the sunshine every chance they get, love aeorbic exercise and take every opportunity they can to get sweaty. They will also go to extraordinary lengths to get to a hot place in the winter - I have friends who really cannot afford tropical vacations but almost can't get through the winter without a trip to Mexico or somewhere warmer. Others, like me, while enjoying being warm of course, find excess heat really debilitating and hard on the body. I hope someone studies this some day. |
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Location: London, England | Hi Glenda,
I think you have a good point. I have never seen a study on why people think that training in the heat is good for them. in yoga there is often this emphasis on internal heat, and that people may think that working out in a hot room increases their 'tapas.' i have, however, seen massses of studies on the negative effects of working out in the heat.
I never realized that water was also frowned upon in bikram-this is worthy of several lawsuits all by itself, and I would advise all teachers to ensure that their students have a bottly of water beside them. To not have water in that heat would probably contribute in a truly huge way to any of the negative effects that are associated with raising the body temperature. I once read of a champion cyclist who would come up behind a competitor, and check whether the guy's water bottle was full-if it was, he wouldnt waste energy trying to overtake, because he knew that in a few miles, the guy wouldnt be able to maintain his pace and could be easily overtaken. So i don't see why anyone would deprive themselves of water, either from a health perspective or a performance perspective. It strikes me that if the water issue was resolved in Bikram yoga, then the practice would be much healthier-I might even be inclined to try it! Only joking
Nick |
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| I'm a Bikram practitioner. A beginner, but not quite a noobie. The more I read here, in all the forums, the more I feel I was very lucky to seek out the studio that I did. It is Bikram, and everyone is wonderful. There was one teacher that was not so great, but she was pleasant enough. The instructors don't baby anyone - they quote Bikram "If you can't you try and if you can you must."
There is one young fellow that sort of barks out the commands like Bikram does, and I heard one woman say he kind of scares her, but he's a very nice guy, and a tremendous practitioner. All the other teachers are very sweet and caring. They all learned my name the first or second time we met, and in a couple of months I've gotten to where I really feel at home at the studio -- with *any* of the teachers.
One thing I've decided I will not do is rely on any yoga instructor's opinion of the state of my anatomy and physiology. It's not their job, they aren't sufficiently trained. In other words, the only tool they seem to have is to keep practicing, perhaps with some modifications. I will trust the proper medical professionals for medical advice.
I've read enough horror stories on here already to know that I could easily find an Iyengar or Ashtanga studio that was harsher than my Bikram studio. That's why I feel blessed to have walked into this one. |
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| I get tapas for working in a hot room? Eggcellent (just kidding).
About the water. I've found it's best to prehydrate and posthydrate than to try to suck down a bunch of water during the 90 minutes I'm in the room. Tends to give me acid reflux and nausea.
Most of us are smart enough to know that sweat weight loss is replenished as soon as we drink a couple of liters of water. However, I've noticed that when I started my sweat smelled foul, and had a milky color where it pooled up on my mat. Now it is clear and doesn't have an odor. I believe working out in the heat DOES clear toxins, and it also ramps up the heartrate, adding an aerobic element to the class that would otherwise be lacking.
Regarding the forced nature of the class. The teachers say what they will, the students do what they will. There are three water breaks during the Standing Series. Then during the Floor Series there are not prescribed water intervals. The only caveat is not to drink while others are doing a posture. That's not only distracting, but rude.
My studio instructs the class from the beginning that the students may stop and rest at any time. A friend in Wash D.C. says it is discouraged in the studio he goes to there. |
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Location: London, England | Hi John,
Yes, and you get some chorizo and a nice broad bean salad with an ice cold beer!
My knowledge surrounding the effects of increasing the heart rate by exposing ourselves to heat is not enough to give any good advice-my interest is in biomechanics and neuromuscular function rather than the cardiovascular system. But you can bet that if it was a good idea, then athletes would put themselves in a hot room to train. Whilst it may be a good idea to train in the climate at which they are going to race, an athlete will warm up their joints and muscles and prepare their systems for the activity they are about to do, but no athlete would ever turn the heat up in the room to work out-unless it was freezing. Yoga studios should be set to a heat where people in light clothing feel a comfortable temperature whilst exercising-this would mean on hot days actually reducing the temperature to keep the heat down. I dont know what the correct temperature is, but I imagine it's closer to 40 degrees than one hundred!
Take care
Nick |
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Location: London, England | Hi all,
While it occurs to me! It may be that the smell sweat that is attributed to toxin excretion might actually be a consequence of fat metabolism producing excessive urea. Something else that occurs to me is that when people diet excessively, ketones are produced which are excreted through the lungs-the smell may not be the sweat (I'm not sure if ketones are excreted through the skin) but may be our smelly breath
Take care
Nick |
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| I've been practicing ashtanga for two years now, and I still leave big whitish puddles on the mat. I don't think they smell, but I've never thought that they did. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Sweat - when my DH began running many years ago he was about 40 lbs overweight and ate decently at home but had a serious Big Mac habit for his work lunches (his running "diet" to start with was to cut out the fries...  though luckily this was pre-super sized days...). Anyway, he worked in an office and his shirts would just smell dreadful at the end of a day. I actually had trouble getting the sweat stains out. After a few months of running the smell went away, even though at that point he was still doing McD's for lunch. Althugh his exercise intensity has gone up and down over the years, his sweat has never been that bad again (20 years on). The workout gear is another story. I thought muddy, sweat and blood covered mountain bike stuff was pretty horrendous until he took up paddling. Foot sweat plus stagnant salt water plus neoprene =    Add in a day sitting in the back of a hot car in the summer.... |
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| Three water breaks during standing? Sounds like heaven! At my class, we got one, and were all told it was the only "party time." Crazed baseball fans in a sports bar never chugged at their beer the way we all chugged our water.
Basically, "party time" was the only sanctioned water break (I forget where it was, somewhere in the middle or so of standing). At my class, some teachers didn't mind if you snuck some in between postures and didn't make a lot of noise/commotion, others would point you out like you were the axis of eville and comment on the water-imbibing like you'd been caught looking at kiddie porn.
I was told by several physical therapists and a trainer at my gym to avoid the Bikram for awhile. According to them, anyone with neck or knee issues should avoid it like the plague. Luckily for me, I had already come to that decision independently. Going to do my MTV yoga video now (silly, I know, but the BT soundtrack, you got love it if you love techno music!).
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| Hi Tourist,
I've been wondering lately if I'm "ruined" after living in hot places most of my life (New Orleans and Las Vegas). I'm pretty sure my thyroid is functioning normally but I am cold-intolerant. Maybe because I don't have proper cold weather clothing. I hope that's the reason. I guess you could say I'm prepared for global warming.
ABout Bikram - let's face it, the same 26 poses get pretty boring after a while. And, I am certain that we spend longer on the right side of the body than the left since we always start with the right. The teacher undoubtedly talks a little longer while we're doing "the right" and then the teacher makes up time by going a little faster on the left. That's ok, though. Not really a deal breaker. ~ fifi |
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Why I Am Skipping Bikram
