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 Question 2: Standing H to KModerators: Moderators Jump to page : 1 2 Now viewing page 2 [25 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
| Yoga -> Bikram Yoga | Message format |
Ram |
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| yogabrian |
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| Roy Batty |
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Regular Posts: 73  Location: The City of Brotherly Love | Hi Dre, glad you dig the "bullett" bit. And yeah I get ya on the cufking ego LOL! For me, my two problem poses are SH2K and paschimotthanasana, the stretching pose at the end of class. Those two have been the postures that will knock me out of whack if I'm not careful. I've already illustrated what happens to me in SH2K if I don't watch out so perhaps I can shed some light on the stretching pose which may be relavant to anyone practicing any pose. I've found that sometimes it is are natural strengths that can get us into the most trouble, so for me I am naturally blessed with flexible hamstrings but have the sacrum issue. I could get pretty far into the stretching pose by relying on my flexible hamstrings. When I got to the training several years ago, Bikram had this practice of giving a number to anyone who could touch their forehead to their toes. Don't you know my cufking ego just had to have that number?! And so I forced it and did it and was awarded number 418. I even have pictures of Bikram standing on my back posing and all that cheesy stuff, and being that only myself and one other male in training got a number, there was a mighty roar in the locker room afterwards  ! Good times but I really had to learn later on to stop jamming my head to my toes. I guess I though getting that number would make me a better human being. Kinda sad actually but it's a good lesson to learn and hopefully our injuries can be our greatest teachers. Anyway, I would routinelly have well-meaning teachers press on my back in that pose to help me get "deeper" and on about five occasions it would flare my back up. And many times I did this on my own until I finally got a stronger belly and just really went back to "square one" (back flat, locked legs etc.). As an aside, I don't think any practioner should ever feel that they can't say to a teacher--no matter how well intentioned--to, "please don't press on me in that pose" or any pose for that matter. You should never be pushed down in the stretching pose. It creates tremendous force in the lower back which unlike Rabbit pose where the hips are not anchored, in strecthing the low spine has only one direction to move and that is out not down. Anyway, I no longer care if I ever touch my head to my toes. I'm still leading a fullfilling life  And one last thing before I move on, depending on how long your legs are relative to your torso length, touching your head to your toes will come far more easily for some than others and that speaks of nothing to that persons ability. So I kinda wish that they didn't make such a big deal about that goofy number. But that's just my two cents... So yeah man, practice is like a double helix you know? Sometimes you are closer to the center and sometimes further away but you are still digging your "deep well" know what I mean? I'm just about to end a fairly long consecutive day stretch where I've had some nice breakthroughs and not just physically but now my body is saying, "Dude, take a couple days off and maybe let's catch a groovy Vinyasa class this weekend, OK?" Yoga's truly the art of listening. So back to you with SH2K: I found that really working the abs in all those postures leading up to that pose really set the table, especially part one of Awkward. Really make that gut feel bullet proof in that pose. You hear in the dialogue that the "ribcage should be visable in the mirror, maximum compression of the abdominal wall, contraction of the abdominal muscles," really suck that gut in till you see the belly pulling under the ribs practically. Tied into my sacrum issue is the fact that my left hip flexor is much tighter than my right. I would feel it flare up in part one of Awkward and after getting better at engaging my guts, that cleared up. Obviously the legs work tremendously hard in that pose but really, the belly is the key. Even in Eagle, really pull that belly in. Sorry if any of this is stuff you are already aware of but perhaps it's helpful to reiterate. In essence for most back issues (not all but a lot) the forwrd bends get us into trouble. When my back goes for instance, I have to walk my hands down my leg in Standing Seperate Leg H2K. I just have to go slow. Even Half-Tortoise is a task to get into. For balancing stick, if you haven't been told this already, the only "non-negotiable" is to have the arms with ears. If your back is acting up, make everything tight and just boom out a few inches or so. The arms really add a load to the spine when the body gets horizontal so just going into a little bit you still get value. Again, you probably know this. It's interesting about the backbend however because it's not in the forward bend family that usually nails people. Here is a suggestion if you would like to try it: there is always a section of the low back that really bears a lot of weight when you alow the head to drop all the way back and then try to "kill yourself." Something I did was for two or three months I kept my head between my arms. I couldn't see as far back but it really helped me learn to engage more of my spine. In essence back bends are really front body openers and man, I started getting a stretch from the tops of my kneecaps all the way to my collar bones and it felt wonderful! It carried over into my camel and then when I felt the time was right, I started lowering my head all the way back again. You may get some flak from a teacher about this. Take them aside and explain your case. I've made the argument that there may be a differing interpretation in the dialogue since you are told to drop the head all the way back but also keep your arms with your ears. I'll spin it both ways to suit me Anyway, that experiment really helped and really made me more aware of how to distribute the load all over my spine. I mean your head is heavy and where you place it has a serious effect on that and many other postures. Hi Dancing, ya know a few years ago I could do a reasonable stage 5 on my left side for a second or two. That was right after training where I was still nuts (well I'm still nuts but a different nuts  ) But I've had to re-learn a few postures that one being foremost. There are a heckuva lot of teachers that come back from training and think they have the postures figured out but often they make bigger mistakes than the non-teachers.You are really encoureged in training to get that posture nailed and for many, nine weeks ain't enough--I'm not sure nine years will be enough as in my case. It's part of the maturation process. Ram, have you tried holding your bent leg up without holding the knee when your back acts up? I know some teachers will tell you to hold the knee but I alwyas have the person use the guts to hold the leg up. Standing there with your hands on your knee just creates friction. You don't really work as hard. Then when you are feeling better, put your outside hand on the knee and your inside hand on the foot. Then eventually interlace the hands. Again, you will get different ways to skin this cat but IMHO always work the gut. If you need to, just stand up straight and hold the knee hip high (or a hair higher if possible) and make that gut bullet proof. ~RB | ||
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| hnia |
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| Roy Batty |
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Regular Posts: 73 Location: The City of Brotherly Love | hnia - 2008-05-15 3:35 PM I don't see anything wrong in adjusting students. You have to adjust each student towards their edge. Some students I lay all 200 pounds right on top of their backs and they are fine. Others I'll barely press at all. I've heard the head to toes thing in class and I don't think my body type would allow it although I do remember being super close a few times. Never heard of stage 5. I practice standing H to K grabbing my wrists around my foot. I'm not against adjustments at all per se. It is indeed on a person by person basis. I'm sure you are a nice guy but I would never let you lay on my back in stretching pose and it would have nothing to do with you. That was my point about students need to feel comfortable in saying "please don't assist me." One of my favorite teachers I absolutley refuse to let her sit on my back in that pose. In half-tortoise on a good day--no problem she makes me feel like Seabiscuit  Perhaps you perform strctching in a different manner but hands-on assists in that pose are helpful if the teacher guides the spine out and lengthens rather than pushing down. Until a person is really ready to bring their forhead into their thumbs (not crunching down onto the thumbs) the position of the chest and trapezuius mucsles is not that different from Cobra pose. The sternum should be lengthening out. If someone sits on me, I can't keep that length and the force just shears into my lumbar spine. Just my two cents... | ||
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Ram - 2008-05-15 1:19 PM thedancingj - 2008-05-11 4:16 PM For me, it was really useful to recognize that this last step is a TOTAL mind game. Think about your body position in the third stage compared to the final stage - it's basically the same. All you have to do is bring your head down and round your spine a little bit more. So physically there is NO reason that you can't finish the posture. It's just an exercise in concentration to hold your position while you move your eyes and your head. Not all of us can "just bring the head down and round the spine. My back gets very strained just holding my foot so I back off and hold my knee. Depending on your level of spine flexibility your statement is far too generic. It's far more then mind control. Heh - YES Ram, thanks for the reminder! I think I was gearing that response towards lifeisgood, who had said that she could get her head onto the knee fine but just couldn't hold the position. But yes, I would have been much more correct to say that assuming you CAN get your head onto your knee, the balance is all mental. Since I started Bikram with a LOT of flexibility already, I've been limited by strength, form, and mental control in most of the postures, and I can forget how big of an issue flexibilty can be for others!! Will have to keep working on that before I become a teacher someday....  As for assistance in stretching, our other tangent discussion here... I don't MIND if someone lays on me, cause my body has no problem with it and it'll feel really comfortable, but then it is too EASY and I'm not working anymore! I'd rather just do the work in the pose, even tho that means there is always a stupid little half centimeter gap between my forehead and my toes. (I'm sure someday I will take class with the boss and he will hop on and get rid of that gap for ONCE, but that is a special occasion... ) Plus, I saw one of my favorite teachers get his back injured in that pose when a senior Bikram teacher tried to "help" push him down, so if i were ever teaching I would be very hesitant to "help" in such a way. | |||
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| Ram |
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| Aw - Ram, I wrote you this nice long reply a couple days ago and it disappeared. Bummer! Oh well, I have time to kill while I'm waiting for my laundry... What I wanted to say was, YES, of course you are absolutely right and you totally called me out.  When I said the last stage of the posture was "just" a mind game, I was mainly talking to lifeisgood, who said that she could get into the last part but just couldn't hold the balance. IF your body is already flexible enough to do janushirasana on the floor, then the standing posture becomes a matter of strength, technique, and mind control. This was definitely the case for me, in MANY postures, but other people may follow totally different paths in their practice. I love that about this yoga - so many different bodies and so many unique people, all working together. Yay... Thanks for the good reminder! Someday (eventually in the future) when I teach this yoga I have to remember not to say anything stupid like "JUST put your head on your knee", "JUST bring your body down parallel to the floor"... my students would be like "who is THIS crazy lady?!" | |||
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