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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
 
Location: Oregon | zoebird - 2008-04-08 11:46 AM
of course, i have to notice it as a problem first, and then from there, take care of it in a consistent and caring manner. typically, i'll say "are you drinking because you are thirsty, or are you drinking to avoid doing something else?"
more recently and related, i've noticed a lot of students fidget too, when they get to mountain pose. so, i've started to point out the fidgeting, and then i started to say "move into mountain and hold the pose without fidgeting or movement" and then i say "ok, now fidget" after they've been in mt for about 20 seconds. and then i say "ok, back to mt" so they don't fidget too much.
In my experience with Bikrams, this is what they're saying, this is the point behind don't drink water, or stay in the room or don't wipe the sweat. I've heard many of my Bikrams teachers comment on why you wipe, do you always get a drink after such and such a pose, etc. Be aware of it and try to eliminate it.
I think for many people that translates into yelling. It's not, but so be it. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | What bothers me most about this issue is that it should not be a one size fits all situation. Everyone has different needs and are on different levels in their practice. The fact that most of these teachers are totally NOT intuitive to their students needs and spout out dialogue that doesn't pertain to each individual is frankly irresponsible. I also believe this is the reason why Bikram studios fail so quickly, people loose interest in being tortured. There is a way to present this type of yoga without it being abusive and traumatic. I know this because I learned the practice with a teacher that had the wisdom and understanding to intuitively teach to each individual, without the crap.
We were having this discussion in my regular yoga class today about other forms of yoga, mainly the flow types like Bikram, Ashtanga, the like. What we basically came to was the fact that our class is structured in such a way that you are grounded and are able to FEEL the posture, hold it and get the benefit. Rather than flowing through, barely breathing just to reach the posture, whether you are able to or not. When someone is trapped, all kinds of mental things start coming up. When you take someone's water and ability to urinate or whatever (I've had to go do bowel movements in Bikram in my earlier days...thank god I was allowed to because that came up with me), it creates a disharmony of going way beyond survival, within your mind. I don't believe for one minute that is what Yoga is about. Nor do I believe for one minute that Bikram should be that way either. This ain't the US Army. Besides, the army and the way they do things is terrible and most people that have endured it have mental issues. Of course, we do take ourselves to levels of extremes and discomforts (I'm not saying pain and torture), and that is perfectly fine and what we are trying to achieve. The drill sargeant approach is IMO un-yogic. There is a boundary line that also IMO, is a lost art with teachers, not just yoga teachers, but teachers in general. I just think that some Bikram studios could be more in tuned with their students, rather than trying to play drill sargeants...cause I'm with ya BB on the abuse issue. My definition of abuse is not having any control. Afterall, it is MY yoga practice, not the teachers. I have choices and I also deserve respect. By god, if I need to go poop, pee-pee or get a drink, then I should be able to without question. I'll break the GD door down if I have to,  Oh darn, I just remembered why I do Bikram at home...scratch all that, it'll never happen in a zillion years, although....it just might if I get frisky enough when out of town. I think BB..you and me should go hit that studio in San Antone....together....whew hooo, that would be a fun time, 4-sure!! You could disguise yourself as that cowboy yogi and I'll be the hillbilly yogini from NC...we'll really freak them out and show them our stuff,  |
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| It's interesting how much I hear about yelling and abusive Bikram teachers. I must have been very fortunate, because I haven't encountered that in the 7 different studios I've practiced in so far. I'm extremely sensitive to tone and level of voice, so I know it's not just that I'm thick-skinned. Believe me, I'm not! I began my practice at Bikram Yoga Dallas, which had (and I think still has) the reputation of being the "boot camp studio", which I could never understand. If it truly was I would NOT have continued! So I feel for the people who are having to deal with that.
Keeping the entire class from water just because someone drank when they weren't supposed to?? That's just flat-out wrong. I'd definitely complain about that.
I know teachers seem to harp on the water issue, but I'm also usually a bit tickled at the end of eagle when the teacher says "party time" and the students lunge for their H20 bottles almost as one. I wonder how many of them really need the water and how many of them just do it out of habit and because they can. |
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| In endurance sports, I've had it drilled into me to drink before I'm thirsty. If you wait until you feel thirsty and continue with the exercise, its too late. I don't know if the same applies to a 90 minute Bikram session, but I don't really want to put it to the test. So, when I'm drinking after Eagle, its not because I feel I need it yet. It's more to prevent me from completely draining somewhere down the line. Would the draining actually happen? I don't know and I don't want to find out. I've dehydrated on a bicycle a couple of times. It is one of life's least pleasant experiences, and not one that I care to repeat if at all avoidable.
That said, I also think that people tend to use the water as a crutch. If the teacher encourages you not to drink and you still need to drink, then do it. But there definitely are different levels of need.
Duffy |
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| That is a good point, about drinking before you feel thirsty. If you feel thirsty you have waited too long. When you are exerting yourself in a very hot environment, I see drinking when you want as a good thing. (Even if someone is using it partly as a way to take a break, they are still doing what they need at the moment, which I also see as a good thing - though it's obviously not the Bikram philosophy, but, whatever.)
Remember that Dahn yoga incident where someone died on a hike? People certainly ranted about the lack of water as a bad thing, rather than agreeing it built discipline or whatever. Of course this not nearly the same, but it's a matter of degree. |
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| With my background as an ex-football player and ex-boxer I can contend with a fair amount of crap. Now that I’m older and my focus has changed I have to ask myself if I’m being asked to do something physically abusive. That I won’t do anymore. Fortunately I haven’t had that experience doing Bikram’s but have seen others with significant health issues that have. For example there was guy coming to one of my classes that had a recent back surgery and before that heart surgery. He was in really bad condition and I could see that some of the postures were killing him. He was trying real hard. He eventually dropped out or at least took some time off. To me that wasn’t a good fit for him. In a class of 30 with a timeline to follow there is no way he could get the additional attention that he needed. I don’t believe the studio owner was solely acting on making financial gain. He really felt that he could help this guy but I don’t think Bikram’s is conducive to this kind of individualized instruction.
On the other hand if you are pretty healthy it’s a great practice. We have at least 7 different teachers in my studio and they all have different styles. One, like the person mentioned at the beginning of this thread, is all over the place with the time held in the pose and stuff like that. I view this as added variability. Variability is good for the body and the ego.
As for the water, I don’t drink any during class but I’m old school and use to contend with all day August football practices with no water breaks. That was a long time ago but I never did jump on the water guzzling band wagon. I think we already have a good indicator when it’s time to drink. It’s called thirst and just like getting hungry it comes way before we actually need it. I just find that I’m less distracted without the water. If others want to drink water that’s fine with me but to insist that 90 minutes without water is physically harmful is indicative of a person well ensconced in the comfort zone. Yoga should be, at least to a certain extent, an exercise in staying out of the comfort zone. Bikram’s seems to do well with this and it’s what draws me to it as opposed to the more touchy feely styles although they too have their place.
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| Thanks so much to all the people who have posted - I really appreciate the feedback to my original post. I am much happier now, in classes with different instructors. Happy Bikram |
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| The water drinking thing is interesting. I used to be of the same opinion - hydrate before your body tells you to. But I also like the idea that water can be used as a crutch, and I realized that I was using it just as that - and I actually ended up noticing that I felt more nauseous if I DID drink sips of water between poses.
I now drink two big glasses of water half an hour before class, and have a bottle of water in my bag for afterward. I never crave water during class anymore. It was just a security blanket for me - I am hydrated enough with the two glasses before. (I have even figured out how not to need to blow my nose as well!) Nothing need distract you from your focus. Plus it's way easier to just grab your mat and go when class is over!
Plus some of those balancing poses are pretty tricky if you can feel the water moving around in your belly as you breathe LOL!!
Edited by Polly 2008-04-12 3:55 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
Location: Oregon | Chatoyancy: It's interesting how much I hear about yelling and abusive Bikram teachers. I must have been very fortunate, because I haven't encountered that in the 7 different studios I've practiced in so far.
Me either. I do think the dialogue can be a crutch for teachers if they aren't encouraged to move beyond that. Human nature is to take the easy way out. The focus on fundamentals, set up and repetition works. This style of Yoga and what they stress, not leaving the room, etc. isn't confining. I think it's reasonable, I can hydrate and use the facilities prior to coming. |
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