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| Hi Everyone,
This is my first post on this site.
I'm wondering if you all think that limiting a studio to only offering Bikram Yoga tremedously effects the amount of business a studio can bring in.
I've recently gone back through our studio database, and was astonished to see how many students have only come to the studio once, maybe twice. The % of people who have never come back was huge! My first reaction as to why this is the case is obviously the heat. Some people love it, some hate it. I'm wondering if this is the case for other, non-bikram studios. I'm also curious to know if any of you have, or know anyone who has changed their studio from strictly Bikram to one that offers all types of classes, and how that affected business. |
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| Welcome abaord Mells. No doubt you are very correct that heat is a big factor affecting first-timers to return to Bikram. I was a Bikramite for over a year and people I'd convice to give it a try wouldn't go back for that reason. Not only is it 90 minutes out of a day but add the prep, cool off clean up and travel time--it's a considerable hunk out of a workday. Now, in my case, the unfamiliarity also played a factor. It's pretty darn humilitating that first class--lot's of mirrors, being half naked and awkward. Luckily, I have NO self-consciousness so I returned. |
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| Not entirely serious suggestion : Perhaps class one should be tepid, class two, a little hotter, and so on in order to give newbies chance to acclimatize?
Fee
Edited by Orbilia 2005-04-15 11:22 AM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Here we go again.... NOT!! The first Bikram class and Yoga class I ever attended was one that I did not know was a Bikram class. In fact, I was in full dress and even makeup. I wondered why everyone was dressed the way they were but didn't think much about it until I sweated my a$$ off and went home. I thought perhaps the A/C was broken and everyone just liked natural air or something (I'm blonde and we think in simple terms). Anyway, I went back like 4 more times..still never knowing it was Bikram, but I loved the sequence and I was learning it and liking the routine and getting very good results. So, then I took a workshop and it all came together!
Soo, take the signs down, don't call it Bikram, bring down the heat to about 95 degrees, start a 8 week session, raise the temp in small amounts until you reach 100 and keep it there. That is how I prefer to do my Bikram Yoga!!  |
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| Mells, I am not a studio owner, but I know what you’re talking about. I am one of the few people that have attended my studio since it opened 2.5 years ago. I practiced for 2 years before that, so I was pretty well on my way to being a dedicated Bikram student. That being said, I used to see the same thing at my gym and regular aerobics classes that I attended. People got on these health kicks, work out for a few months, and drop off the face of the earth. My friends are guilty of this too. I used to go to the same high impact aerobics class every Saturday morning, and we’d see the same sort of pattern. New faces came to a couple classes, were either too exhausted to come back, or were too lazy. It’s just human nature.
P.S. I can almost guarantee that other styles of yoga studios have the same problem with people not returning, because I was one of those people. I came a couple times to a power yoga class, decided it wasn’t for me, and didn’t return. For $15 a class, you aren’t coming back if you don’t love it.
Edited by Gracie 2005-04-15 11:59 AM
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| I'm one that went to a "hot" power yoga class (though not Bikram) only once and never returned. I didn't enjoy the heat and found I couldn't hold the poses because profuse sweating caused me to slip off the mat, and the instructor offered no assistance whatsoever.
But what REALLY turned me off was the other students . . . they spent a LOT of time (before and during class) yapping about how tiny their butts were, what size jeans they fit into, how perfect they were in every way, arguing about who could do a pose better, etc. It made me so uncomfortable, especially with 190+ lb me slipping off the mat right next to them. I left in tears right in the middle of class and never returned.
So, perhaps the heat is causing the same problem for your new students (slippage) and they might need a little personal assistance? You never know how the other students are behaving around them, either, although I have NEVER been to another class like that so this was probably an isolated case. At any rate, a little compassion and encouragement might go a long way toward easing the humiliation of being unable to keep up the first time. The heat might not be the *true* problem. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Jean,
It is so hard for me to imagine people comparing their bodies and their asana performance. That is so NOT what Yoga is all about. Anyway, my problem is different. I got so tired of listening to how *phsycic* they were and how they were going to change the world- especially where I live, they were the so called "light workers" and were going to change these country people's way of thinking...make it a better place. I just sorda said to myself "yea right"....the only thing I could see was that "they" were in for a rude awakening if they thought they were going to change the world...especially where I live. Anyway, once a girl came up to me and put her hands on the back of my shoulder. I'm not quite sure what she thought she was doing (she called herself a massage healer), but that area was sore for a week and finally when I was able to see my Chinese Doctor, he put several needles there to get rid of my pain. Oh well. I guess this is the life and we do what we have to do. As a practictioner, I would go back to the studios if they could somehow make it a neutral place. Like for instance.... the teachers taking more control over what is being done before, during and after the class - NO Talking is best, and basically just cut the BS and stick to the Yoga practice on a very simple level. As for the heat...well, no way around that except it would be nice if they could make an allowance for the heat and have scheduled classes that aren't so hot, but not cold either...say around 90 - 95% which is usually tolerable for most people. Oh well.... |
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| Don't you find that the people who spend the most time talking about how enlightened they are seem to be the furthest ones from it? 
My mom used to run a church of "new age wackos" that would carry on and on about spirit and peace and light, yet their actions did not reflect any intentions of the sort! I find any kind of spiritual bullying rather repellant. I feel most spiritual when I am able to shut up and be quiet, patient, and accepting of people no matter what path they are on. Now if I can just learn to be open-hearted when the bullies get my hackles up!! 
I hope I do not offend anyone who is into new age or metaphysics . . . these are perfectly nice belief systems that I have no problem with. I had problems with my mom's church buddies. New age or not, they were flat out wackos. |
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| mells,
Not really knowing your market in the area there could be a number of reasons why member retention is suffering. True the heat could be an issue for some, but if you look at the vast amount of Bikram studio's around the country, most of them do well(unless there are studio too close to each other). If you start to offer different yoga stlyes at your studio, you leave yourself open to major liability from Bikram as he does not his yoga system to be taught in non-bikram only schools.
After going through your website, as studio owner myself the first thing that struck me was the amount you are pricing at. Once again not really knowing your area, you may be priced correctly, however the economy in most area of the country is not what it was 5 years ago. The most gyms are offering yoga for less then the yoga schools. I would think about lower the rates for awhile until member retention improves. Remember you can always raise your prices later. Hope this helps!
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| Thanks everyone! It's nice to hear outsiders perspectives on this.
Unfortunately, lowering the prices is out of the question. If I told everyone reading this what our expenses were you would all fall off your chairs!! Of course in an ideal world all yoga would be free, so that in order to get what we love and need from a yoga class we wouldn't have to then think about how we can afford to get it! But, the reality is we are just outside of Manhattan and our costs are reflective of that.
I was actually just forwarded an interesting web-site pertaining to this topic. http://www.lifestylebiz.org There is a link on the site for a yoga studio survey, and they say they are going to compare studio's around the country. I'm not sure how or when we get to see the results, but regardless, it's nice to see the yoga community taking action on this topic.
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| I agree with Brian about the liability. Bikram is a registered trademark. So if you hold yourself out as a Bikram studio that means you have taken his training and are certified by him and teach his style of yoga. It also connotes that you are one of his franchisees. He does not allow his franchisees to teach other styles of yoga in his Bikram studios much less change his prescribed series of poses. If you are not a licensed franchisee, I suggest you change the name to Hot Yoga so as not to get sued.
Additionally, offering other yoga styles in a Hot Yoga studio has it's draw backs. Most hot yoga studios are carpeted, have mirrors on the walls and smell bad. I don't like practicing yoga under those conditions so I wouldn't return to a yoga studio with mirrors and carpeting that smells.
If you have space to have another room then offering other styles may benefit your business.
So much of capturing return business is ethereal. It isn't necessarily the heat. You might have to consider offering an incentive to beginner's: new students - unlimited first week for $20; buy a month pass and get 20% off; get 3 classes for the price of 2; sign up 3 friends and get a free month of yoga, etc. Sometimes the problem is in the atmosphere. It might be the desk people aren't friendly. It might be that you charge too much for towels It might be there isn't good parking. The showers. The lockers. Bad feng shui. Maybe your town ain't ready for yoga.
You might have to put a suggestion box in your lobby to get feedback. Send out a simple internet survey to people on your email list. See what the students are saying.
That being said, Bikram is really popular. Most Bikram studios are successful. It also seems that they have more overhead due to the costs of heat and hot water and towes/laundry and (if you are a real bikram studio) franchise fees. Other studios don't often have heat blasting all the time, showers or towels, or franchise fees--just mats, blocks & straps. Keeps the costs down.
On another note, I think most studios take about 2 years to gain a steady clientelle. If you haven't reached your second birthday, then be patient. If you have been around more than 2 years, then I suggest you get someone to come in and look at your busines with a more objective view and help you figure out how to turn more of a profit.
Best of luck.
Keith
Edited by YogaGuy 2005-04-15 3:40 PM
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| BTW, Mells, welcome to the board!
I visited your website. I think you guys are charging too much. In NYC, as a new student, I can take a week of unlimited Bikram for $20. Drop-ins are between $16-20. Most studios charge $1-$2 for mat rental except the Bikram studio I went to that tried to charge me $5 for a mat rental. I threatened to leave and she let me have it for free.
Maybe you're the only show in town so people will pay that, but I don't know any yogis that would pay that much. I suspect that has a lot to do with it. I know a few fancy places that charge $25 per class but they are also spas that have amazing facilities and pamper you and/or teachers that are nationally known and really worth the money.
For example Exhale Spa charges a lot for a drop in, but you are in a really nice spa and you feel pampered when you're there even if you're just coming for a yoga class. And Dharma Mittra finally raised the prices of his classes, but he's a true master. Taking class with him is a privilege.
I'm not sure how you justify those prices to your students... Not criticizing. I'm just pointing out the fact that you charge more. |
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| Yogaguy,
Just to be clear...there is no bikram franchise, there are no franchise fees. While Bikram has been talking about this franchise to the press and others for more than 4 years, there is no formal franchise. What it is is just a loose affiliation of studios that agree to not teach anything other than bikram yoga in order to get the privilege of being listed on Bikram's website. There is no ongoing marketing support, education, or other support that these studios get from Bikram. From my knowledge of Bikram and his organization, it is unlikely that they will ever get it together enough to create any sort of relevant franchise. |
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| YogaGuy - 2005-04-15 3:39 PM
That being said, Bikram is really popular. Most Bikram studios are successful. It also seems that they have more overhead due to the costs of heat and hot water and towes/laundry and (if you are a real bikram studio) franchise fees.
I know this isn't the topic of the thread but I have to pipe in here. To my knowledge, there are currently no franchise fees being collected by Bikram. I say this as an "official" Bikram Yoga studio.
To get back on topic: As YogaGuy points out, there are a lot of factors that affect retention. Running a yoga studio as a business isn't much different from running any other kind of business. Any kind of hot yoga studio will likely have higher expenses and that's why they tend to be more costly than some other styles. In my limited experience (2+ years as a studio owner) the two factors that are most important to keep under control are rent and teacher fees, with rent being the most important. I was lucky that I had someone with a lot of experience talk me out of signing a lease which I thought was pretty good but actually would have probably killed my business plan within two years. What I've been learning is that *any* kind of new business takes an extreme amount of hard work, dedication and patience to become successful. The financials are only one aspect of a successful business, albeit one that can make or break you faster than anything else.
When setting my prices I looked at a lot of Bikram studio web sites and I have to agree that the Larchmont studio has the highest prices I've ever seen. Still, location (more specifically your target market) is the ultimate arbiter of that. If the prices are in line with other similar businesses in the area and if the people you want to attract can afford it then that may not be the problem. I see it as the nature of the yoga/fitness business that a lot more people will sample the wares, so to speak, or even dabble with it for a month or two and then move on to something else (or nothing) than will stick with it for any length of time. My perspective is that the business model requires those people as much as the long-term committers in order to stay open.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
  
| Hi Mells - A non-Bikram studio I am involved with recently did the same data base check and found the same thing. I think the number was well over 70 percent who either do one class or one session and never come back. I imagine it is the same with other recreational activities because I see very few people from, for example, my original ballroom dancing class. There are almost as many reasons as there are people dropping out - I have had students come up to me in the grocery store and say they would love to come back but they can't afford it or are back at school or their mother got sick or whatever. Over a longer period though, some will come back. My teacher has been teaching in my area for over 20 years and she says she does see faces from "way back when" reappearing after long breaks.
As for the heat - well, that is just the way it is! My dental hygenist says she just thinks about germs all day and the idea of all that sweat on the carpet just made her cringe We have one dance class that we won't return to because the floor is horrible. We love the teacher, love the class but hate the floor. I doubt if we could convince her to leave that studio anymore than you could convince your regular students that it might be nice to try a cool session from time to time  The best advice we have had after looking at the stats is to concentrate on your long term students. If they are happy, they are your biggest assets as far as keeping the studio going and for bringing in word-of-mouth business. Good luck!
Oh - and look at the statistics page for this forum - see how many signed in and only posted once!
Edited by tourist 2005-04-15 7:06 PM
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| Just another thought. For me the teachers are a major issue and completely effects which classes I go. I tried Bikram a few times 3 years ago - had the super aggressive type teachers and I felt like I was in an aerobics class. Gave it up pretty quick. Tried another studio last year and it was completely different. They list who teaches which classes and I have a favorite one I always look out for. I go once or twice a week regularly. My studio also offers "hot yoga" where they add in some other poses. How they get away with it, I don't know, but I really prefer those to the straight Bikram. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | I've seen both the high turn-over aspects and the dedicated students.
A typical class where I used to do Bikram was about 30% regulars and
the rest 1 to 10 class types. What keeps people coming is the ambience
and their chemistry with the teachers. Some folks will tune out a substandard
studio environment because they click with the general atmosphere... most
folks, really. Nothing drives students out faster than a bad teacher.
When I was doing daily Bikram practice, I wound up seeing every teacher
working at the place. The differences were enormous. The best one (who happened
to be the owner) had an incredible gift of speech and energy. People just
loved her classes -- I certainly did. There was another teacher there who clearly
hated teaching and was just in it for business opportunity...that teacher drove
students away in large numbers. Some of them told me hair-raising stories
about this teacher's nasty remarks and attitudes, and I saw some of it myself.
Most teachers had up and down days, but some averaged higher than others.
Some loved yoga, some just had a job. Some were better with older students,
some were best for little college boys (sorry sorry... I'm thinking of one birdbrain
in particular who couldn't teach but would sit there with rapt attention while this
20 year old guy authoritatively told her how the world went round). Some teachers
liked helping people, and some just wanted to be in charge of a group for 1.5 hours.
C'est la vie, non?
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| mells,
Listen if you really want to talk and bounce ideas, studio owner to studio owner, you can PM me or choose which ever form of communication is better for you. I would be more then happy to be a sounding board and try to help you. You can also reach me through my website. check my profile for more info.
Brian |
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| Hi Mells -
Welcome to the forum and it's nice to see a fellow NYer here. I know your area very well for I have family there. Also, I am a yoga teacher who has been doing the metro NY yoga circuit for some times now.
The only Bikram studios that are NOT in the red are NYC simply b/c of the volume. The studios in the city have classes around the clock and there are so many dancers and performing arts people that live and work in the locations. They have a niche market.
People want variety. They don't want only one kind of yoga. Whether it's a stay at home Mom or a working person hopping off the train.. They want a schedule that fits into their lives. They are not going to pay the kind of fees your studio is charging when they can go to the Equinox and get it all in a one stop shop for $100-$125 a month..
Also I have heard that people are tired of a certain gentleman who teaches at your studio and who works at the front desk who talks about how "bikram is the only yoga, etc." Here is another scenario that someone I know experienced at your studio: Upon filling out personal information form where the new yoga student disclosed he has taken Bikram before. The staff asked where, and became angry that they were taking Bikram classes north of you that is no longer a Bikram studio.. A paying customer should not be brow beaten for taking yoga classes elsewhere nor do people want to hear a business bad mouth another business. I know people that walked into your stuido and turned right around. People just don't want to hear that kind of stuff. People don't want all those hard-core rules and do not want to be singled out in class. Let a woman take her hand-bag into class and she should not be yelled at for doing it.. People should not be ridiculed for wearing green b/c Bikram does not like green. Sure there are commom etiquette rules that should be mandatory (ie: must turn their cell phones off).. If someone wants to use a hand towel for a grip, let them!! Those full-on hard-core Bikram rules just won't fly in your town.
Like many others who posted above, I suggest offering this mix: gentle yoga classes, vinyasa, ashtanga and pre-natal. Offer a super-hot class, and another not-so-hot bikram class. Keep the vinyasa classes at 80 degrees so they can work up a sweat. Something else that works nicely is during peak hours offer a hot-vinyasa (90 degrees) followed by a Bikram sequence type class.. That attracts the back-to-back customers.. The ones who can't there 5 days a week. I am calling a spade a spade and won't beat around the bush -- many of the people in your town want a work-out. They are calorie counters so by offering ashtanga and vinyasa and allowing them to combine the hot yoga-- they will see more changes in their bodies... That in turn willl keep people walking in the door.. Gentle classes attract older people, and people who are scared off by the more challenging classes.
Get a nice person at the front desk. A person who does not have any kind of aggenda and who LOVES all kinds of yoga. One who knows how to talk to both the stay-at-home moms who just relocated out of the city and one who knows how to talk to the stressed out commuter who works long hours.
Hope this helps. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. I wish you the best of luck!
Best regards,
Daniela
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| Sorry, my bad about the franchise info. I assumed from the things I had read that Bikram had formal agreements with the Bikram studios.
What I have read was that Bikram controls who can be listed on the official website. He enforces his trademarks and copyrights in his poses (which I think is lame BTW). So that if you are not following his guidelines, then he will sue you for trademark and/or copyright infringement and will pull you off the offcial site.
Regardless of the cause of action he uses, the results are the same. You spend a lot of money to fight him and eventually have to change the name of your studiio and get dragged through the muck for a while.
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| One more thing -
More and more BIG gyms are coming into your area and have plans to keep building.
The Big 3 are -- Equinox, Crunch and LA Fitness.. LA Fitness and Equinox are expanding rapidly and choose locations where they can pull people from many towns, as opposed to targeting one village.. Charter memberships are super cheap... Equinox is opening in Mamoroneck... Every Equinox that is being built has beautiful yoga studio that is only used for yoga. Before another one one pops up, take a look at their schedules.. What are they offering/at what times, and what can you do (rates, incentives) to ensure retention..Can you offer more classes on the weekends to counter your competition? Can you convert a small room for on-site childcare? I know it's more $$ but it may pay-off.
Whatever it is you choose to do -- advertise in the local pennysaver b/c you need to get the word out.. |
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| Daniella that's some great advice! There's nothing like the truth!! Seriously, if you don't have a nice person to greet people at the desk, than people aren't going to pass through the door. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | Hmmm . . . I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but I have attended classes at Mells' studio (and I know lots of other people who have as well) and have never experienced or heard of any of the sort of behavior you've described. I've found it to be a very "user friendly" studio, with pleasant front desk staff, and a definite un-dogmatic vibe. I know that neither Mells nor her partners would behave in the ways that you've described, and I can't imagine they would knowingly employ anyone who would.
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| YogaGuy - 2005-04-16 2:52 PM
Sorry, my bad about the franchise info. I assumed from the things I had read that Bikram had formal agreements with the Bikram studios.
What I have read was that Bikram controls who can be listed on the official website. He enforces his trademarks and copyrights in his poses (which I think is lame BTW). So that if you are not following his guidelines, then he will sue you for trademark and/or copyright infringement and will pull you off the offcial site.
Regardless of the cause of action he uses, the results are the same. You spend a lot of money to fight him and eventually have to change the name of your studiio and get dragged through the muck for a while.
While there have been a lot of articles published about Bikram and the franchise situation the majority of it is speculation. The contract I have with Bikram is very simple (one page) and contains very reasonable terms regarding my obligations to Bikram. It also was given to me at the beginning of the teacher training program so that I knew what I would be agreeing to before ever becoming certified.
Who else would determine what (or who) gets on Bikram's web site but Bikram?
Anyone with a trademark or copyright on anything would be expected to want them enforced, no? Otherwise, what would be the point? I wonder if what you meant to say was that the very idea of applying a copyright to an asana sequence is lame, and not the enforcement of such, once it has been granted. If so, I don't have an opinion about that at the moment.
You don't have to spend any money fighting Bikram unless you want to. The easiest thing to do to avoid litigation is to stop using his name and trademarks (Bikram Yoga, Bikram Method Yoga, etc.). Many of the people fighting Bikram do so because they believe that the fact that they paid for certification should give them the right to use his name in perpetuity, which is a naive position. If you accept his authority to certifity you in the first place then it is only logical that you should accept his right to revoke it, particularly for reasons that are outlined in the contract that all Bikram studios enter into.
What most of his detractors seem unwilling to acknowledge is that Bikram has created a very successful yoga brand and therefore he ought to have some method of controlling who gets to ride on his coattails. Isn't it odd that the studios who want to disaccociate from Bikram the man want to continue to use his name in their marketing materials?
As a Bikram studio owner, I owe much to Bikram for creating the brand and allowing me to have access to it. That calls for a certain amount of loyalty on my part and I'm happy to give it. Part of that means respecting the brand identity that he created and not changing the method because a brand isn't a brand without consistency. If I walk into a Bikram Yoga studio I expect to attend a Bikram Yoga class and not somebody else's variation. I know the very concept of a standardized yoga is outrageous and offensive to many people but I don't really care about that because it works so well for me just the way it is.
If you want to teach Bikram Yoga then do it his way. If not, then don't. It's very simple (or ought to be).
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
$22 for a Bikram class??? Does that include the towel service and some water?
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Studio Owners...
