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 Lock the knee!Moderators: Moderators Jump to page : 1 2 Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
| Yoga -> Bikram Yoga | Message format |
Onion5 |
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Wow, I have trouble with this. I just did my 26th class last night and I still cannot lock my knee. I knew I had weak knees (tendons, ligaments, all gone to heck) but it is so frustrating. I am making progress, but it is very, very slow. I so badly want to do the full head to knee pose like everyone else  Does this lock the knee thing apply to other forms of yoga? Is there a "secret" way to progressing faster? I know, I know...I should be patient because it's all about the journey. I also find the last bit of awkward pose impossible. Yes, impossible. I squish my knees together and go all the way down, but getting back up..... NOT happening in the forseeable future. Guess it's the weak knees again darn it. Edited by Onion5 2006-06-16 11:35 AM | |||
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| Onion5 |
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Bruce - 2006-06-16 9:32 AM Oh Dorthy, you're not in Kansas anymore but you are indeed in Neverneverland--sucked into the heady lure of the first month of Bikram. However, you should be very proud that you are beginning to ask questions and are thinking critically. Let me point out that you ask these questions here rather than of your Bikram instructors. I'm thinking they can't give you proper answers other than keep doing it. OK, enough overview--locking the knee applies to NOTHING in life--much less yoga. The secret way to progressing faster is to attend classes other than Bikram. And phase 3 of awkward pose is possible but don't you feel like a fool doing it? I look in that mirror and think this is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. OK kiddo, I'm sure this helps you not one iota and I wasn't going to comment but I couldn't help it. It wasn't until I left the Bikram studio that I began to learn about yoga; however, if it were NOT for Bikram, I'd never have begun the journey. I have asked the instructor(s) about it, and they are helpful...reassuring me that it will happen for me if I just keep at it. I was just wondering about other people's experiences with this particular one. I do believe that one day I will move on to another type of yoga, to broaden my horizons so to speak, but for now, Bikram is doing a great job of kicking my arse, and that is the utmost reason I signed up for it anyways. I think I will definitely love all other yoga types as well....when the time comes to move on. Thanks  | |||
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| *Fifi* |
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| Cyndi |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 5098   Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I like the term, "Straighten the leg", it seems to jive with my anatomy better and with a gentle ease. Locking my knee is really not an option....even though I naturally have a tendency to do it, OUCH, | ||
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| tourist |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 8442    | Dorothy - continuing to "jsut do it more" in Bikram tradition will either cure you or kill you in terms of knee health. Go back inthe Bikram threads and read EVERYTHING about the knee. There is a lot - a whole lot. Here is what I get my students to do - sit on the floor with your legs out in front. Put your hands on your quads and engage your quads by lifting the kneecap toward you. Do NOT lift your heels off the floor or push the back of your knee into the floor - I don't care what Racquel Welch said in her book, it is not ok for your knees to do that  Practice that then report back | ||
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| yogabrian |
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| JackieCat |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 418 Location: New York | |||
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| SCThornley |
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| kulkarnn |
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| bipinjoshi |
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Onion5 - 2006-06-16 10:35 AM Wow, I have trouble with this. I just did my 26th class last night and I still cannot lock my knee. I knew I had weak knees (tendons, ligaments, all gone to heck) but it is so frustrating. I am making progress, but it is very, very slow. I so badly want to do the full head to knee pose like everyone else Does this lock the knee thing apply to other forms of yoga? Is there a "secret" way to progressing faster? I know, I know...I should be patient because it's all about the journey. I also find the last bit of awkward pose impossible. Yes, impossible. I squish my knees together and go all the way down, but getting back up..... NOT happening in the forseeable future. Guess it's the weak knees again darn it. Many people feel that benifits can be obtained only after attaining the final pose. Actually when you try to go in some pose those efforts themselves gives you a lot of benifits. Let it take its own time, do not force just because others are able to do that and one day you will be able to do that even better than others  | |||
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| Nick |
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 Location: London, England | Hi all, Fifi gives good advice in locking the knee. There is too much advice in yoga circles on emphasizing quadriceps contraction to obtain a straight leg. I have a theory that in yoga this leads to imbalance between the quads and the hamstrings, which then eventually leads to hamstring/knee injuries-espiecially as many people have dysfunctional hamstrings anyway, perhaps we should concentrate on these muscles to get them back to normal, rather than working on the quads? And what is a straight leg? Many yogis exhibit a tendency to hyper-extend the knee-get someone to take a picture of you from the side in padottansana and watch if the side of the knee is behind the ankle-you are hyper-extending your knees and potentially ruining the knee joints and destroying your hamstring function. So what is a straight leg? A straight leg means that you can draw a line from the greater trochanter, which then passes over the side of the knee joint, which then passes just anterior to the lateral malleolus on the outside of the ankle-best way to test this is to get a plumb-bob and hang it so that the weight is touching the floor just in front of the malleolus, and then seeing if the remaining two points are on the line-you will have to get somebody to let you know, because every time you look, you will lose alignment. Hyper-mobile knee students are always surprised when you tell them their knee isn't actually straight-and they get a bit grumpy, because it means that they have been damaging themselves, and also, that having a straight leg means they have to start activating the knee (thanks Fifi ). This is tricky because many in the yoga community applaud hyper-mobility-if you want to impress with your yoga positions, go to a dodgy lab somewhere and get them to inject you with lots of relaxin and other hormones which make your connective tissue looser-if yoga ever becomes an olympic sport, I would make a guess that these hormones and drugs like them will be the yogi's drug of choice In order to combat this train of thought, it is important that we seek not greater flexibility, but instead search for better posture-the two are often not compatible-another piece of news that yoga students often find a bit dismaying ( I give hyper-mobile students a hard time, to try to make up for the ego-boosting effects of being told how good they are at yoga ) Take care Nick | ||
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| Nick |
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Location: London, England | Hi all, Why is there so many posts about knee problems at the moement? is there a rogue yoga organization going around, or is everyone attempting to do lotus for the first time? Nick | ||
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| tourist |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 8442 | |||
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| blissgirl |
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| Hi everyone- Is there some sort of reason (according to Bikram) to lock the knees? I think its bad for you and he was just drunk one day and came up with it. But does he give any explaination (benefits or something)? Bella | |||
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| tourist |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 8442 | blissgirl - well, "back in the day" such as the ancient 1960's, that is the way it was done, I think. There wasn't as much known about exercise theory, at least by the general public. It was just a lot of "more is better" and if you could stretch "more" than me, that was better. I would like to think that Bikram did not set out to deliberately injure people any more than the people who insisted on bouncing to stretch did. I just wish they would change with the times and instruct their teachers how to give this direction more safely.  | ||
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| blissgirl |
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| Ahhh, thanks tourist! That makes a lot of sense. Funny how we get so used to certain things, that we don't even realize what were doing to ourselves. Hmmm, so what am I doing unconsciously now that I need to bring into the light? Bella | |||
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| Onion5 |
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blissgirl - 2006-06-18 7:37 AM Hi everyone- Is there some sort of reason (according to Bikram) to lock the knees? I think its bad for you and he was just drunk one day and came up with it. But does he give any explaination (benefits or something)? Bella LOL! Good one! I asked the instructor after class to explain HOW to lock the knee since I was having such issue with it and she demonstrated and told me it has nothing to do with hyperextending, which I thought it did because they always say "push the knee back"... apparently that is just if your knee is bent. Who knew!? And the whole idea is to make your leg solid so you don't injure yourself doing the rest of the posture. I tend to hyperextend my knees normally, so trying to do the standing head to knee pose (I can hardly do the first step), my standing knee kept trying to bend backwards and I'd fall out. I think some teachers are just better at explaining these things. I've asked this question before of another teacher and I didn't get any direction....just "keep trying"...oh well, now I know. | |||
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| tourist |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 8442 | Onion5 - 2006-06-19 12:20 PM I think some teachers are just better at explaining these things. I've asked this question before of another teacher and I didn't get any direction....just "keep trying"...oh well, now I know. The truth is, some teachers (not just Bikram teachers) just don't know this stuff. I don't think it is disrespectful of the style (and I KNOW someone will correct me if I am wrong!  ) to say that basic Bikram training does not address issues such as this. So unless the teacher has had some other sort of training, they will not be able to teach it because they have not been taught it. It is not in the script. | ||
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| JackieCat |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 418 Location: New York | tourist - 2006-06-19 7:23 PM Onion5 - 2006-06-19 12:20 PM I think some teachers are just better at explaining these things. I've asked this question before of another teacher and I didn't get any direction....just "keep trying"...oh well, now I know. The truth is, some teachers (not just Bikram teachers) just don't know this stuff. I don't think it is disrespectful of the style (and I KNOW someone will correct me if I am wrong! ) to say that basic Bikram training does not address issues such as this. So unless the teacher has had some other sort of training, they will not be able to teach it because they have not been taught it. It is not in the script.Tourist, you're 100% right about this . . . they absolutely don't address issues such as this at Bikram TT. It's all about memorizing and reciting the "dialogue" verbatim. I never got the impression that anyone gave a crap if we understood what it meant or not, least of all Bikram himself. | ||
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| Onion5 |
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tourist - 2006-06-19 4:23 PM Onion5 - 2006-06-19 12:20 PM I think some teachers are just better at explaining these things. I've asked this question before of another teacher and I didn't get any direction....just "keep trying"...oh well, now I know. The truth is, some teachers (not just Bikram teachers) just don't know this stuff. I don't think it is disrespectful of the style (and I KNOW someone will correct me if I am wrong! ) to say that basic Bikram training does not address issues such as this. So unless the teacher has had some other sort of training, they will not be able to teach it because they have not been taught it. It is not in the script.Don't they get taught proper technique? How are they able to see if you are doing something wrong? I know they all have a dialogue, but every teacher I've had has been different. I thought it was just to get the timing right instead of couting 60 seconds. Listening sure makes those seconds tick by a lot faster. How do you know if a yoga teacher is any good? I often wonder this, if I am ever to try other types of yoga, what sort of credentials should the person have? Where do they learn? I really don't have a clue about this stuff. | |||
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| Nick |
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Location: London, England | Hi all, Inj my opinion, there is not a yoga teaching course in the world where people get taught 'the script.' i have heard yoga teachers from every kind of yoga say the most outrageous things anatomically. On this websiite i have had teachers tell me that it is ok to put weight on the head in headstand, just becuase that is what they have been told to do so-this is not allowing yoga to evolve, so that it is stuck in an age of misinformation, where we do not question theyoga organizations of which we are a part. I think that there is several reasons for this, and none of them are commendable. it is unfair to single out bikram for special treatment-often, the types of yoga that offer perfect alignment are actually designed to give the human race bad posture. Cast not the first stone Nick | ||
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| tourist |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 8442 | Nick - really, it is true. Bikram's teacher "training" is 100% learning to recite the official Bikram script and not deviate from it. That's it. Nothing else. I didn't believe it either until we had so many ex-teachers tell us about their training. The only deviation from the script that is technically allowed in a Bikram class seems to be telling people to work harder and push themselves more. We can save the headstand debate for another day, but I still can't see how you can ever get to niralamba sirsasana without spending a lot of time in salamba sirsasana...  | ||
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| johnb838 |
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