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| Maybe this isn't the correct thread for this but last night after working out in the gym I went to the steam room to stretch. I usually go to the dry sauna to stretch but the steam room was amazing. I forgot about how good and easy it is to stretch in a hot AND steamy room.
I think I have an unusual fondness to steam that could easily turn into an "addiction".
My ideal Bikram room would be super steamy (so steamy you can't see yourself in the mirror) and have fresh oxygen pumped into the room so you wouldn't feel so woozy. Maybe I'd shorten the class to 60 minutes, too. Do any wealthy yogis out there want to build this $10,000.00 room? |
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| that sounds so great! that's one thing i miss about the bikram class... the hot room. i've heard you can turn a shower stall into a steam room type thing pretty easily. don't know any details, but i've been thinking about looking into it. maybe too small to stretch in, but great to hang out in for awhile... |
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| nuclear_eggset - 2006-04-06 3:15 PM
I haven't tried Bikram, and won't, because I disapprove of the legal actions he's taken against people in the yoga field.
I'm sorry, but Bikram Yoga is copyrighted. You can't teach "Bikram Yoga" as something different than what it is and not expect to have a problem. Many forms of Yoga are copyrighted, but for some reason only bikram is controversial.
I really don't understand this debate. If I created a Yoga called "Peter's Yoga" and somebody wanted to open a chain of studios teaching Peter's Yoga don't I deserve something? Maybe I should go to the library and copy a bunch of books and start selling them. How is copyrighted Yoga any different? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | Peter Mac - 2006-05-06 3:11 PM
I'm sorry, but Bikram Yoga is copyrighted. You can't teach "Bikram Yoga" as something different than what it is and not expect to have a problem. Many forms of Yoga are copyrighted, but for some reason only bikram is controversial.
What other forms of yoga are copyrighted? |
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| Peter Mac - 2006-05-06 3:11 PM
nuclear_eggset - 2006-04-06 3:15 PM
I haven't tried Bikram, and won't, because I disapprove of the legal actions he's taken against people in the yoga field.
I'm sorry, but Bikram Yoga is copyrighted. You can't teach "Bikram Yoga" as something different than what it is and not expect to have a problem. Many forms of Yoga are copyrighted, but for some reason only bikram is controversial.
Which ones? I really haven't heard of any.
I really don't understand this debate. If I created a Yoga called "Peter's Yoga" and somebody wanted to open a chain of studios teaching Peter's Yoga don't I deserve something? Maybe I should go to the library and copy a bunch of books and start selling them. How is copyrighted Yoga any different?
The difference IMHO is whether or not Bikram is really adding something to yoga, and what his intention is behind starting legal action against some studios. From what I understand about Bikram's yoga, it's akin to taking the works of Shakespear, and putting them in a different font. Not much of an innovation, (if any).
If he's really produced something new, then he deserves to be able to reap the rewards of that innovation. However, the impression I've gotten from previous gossip is that he's really attempting to stifle competition. If this is the case his lawsuits have no merit.
Edited by GreenJello 2006-05-06 4:24 PM
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| Which ones? I really haven't heard of any.
from Yoga Journal:
To some extent, franchising was an inevitable development in the modernization and continuing commercialization of yoga. Founders of other lineages, including Iyengar, Jivamukti, and Kundalini, have copyrighted and trademarked their intellectual property, including names, logos, books, and the like. Still, it is unsettling to many in the yoga community to see legal principles of ownership invoked as they might be for laundry detergent or candy bars. As in yoga practice, the question is one of intent. Sometimes the motive is protection, sometimes it's commercialization, and sometimes it's both. One thing is for sure: Whatever Bikram's reasons, his actions, successful or not, could have a profound effect on the evolution of yoga in the West.
If Iyengar and Kundalini are so holy and perfect ask them to remove their copyrights. I have done Ashtanga, Iyengar, and Kundalini. I like Bikram the best because it suits my personality type the best and gives me the workout I want. I don't think it's fair for people to just pick on bikram when others have copyrighted their material on Yoga as well.
Edited by Peter Mac 2006-05-06 10:00 PM
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| squeaky wheel gets the grease.
people just pick on bikram because he made a big deal about things and sued some people.
not that i'm entirely unsympathetic with ol' bikram, or studio owners who were getting shafted by unofficial bikram studios, or entirely unthankful for the year and a half i practiced...
but he was making a boatload of money anyways.
and bikram licensed yoga generally kicks the crap out of 'hot' yoga...
however, why haven't iyengar, kundalini and jivamukti styles had problems with their copyrights?
i propose a point of view:
bikram yoga is easy to replicate.
yep.
same 26 postures every day.
same dialogue from studio to studio.
i practiced in an unofficial bikram studio, and did some teacher training there.
as i said, bikram licensed studios are generally head and shoulders above, but my studio had some teachers that were head and shoulders above bikram certified teachers i practiced with.
other styles of yoga, say, iyengar, kundalini, and jivamukti require a deeper understanding of the foundations of yoga, hence, are more difficult to replicate.
you could practice bikram yoga ever day for a year, do the training, and have the resources to teach those 26 postures.
daily practice of other styles for a year will make you realize what a beginner you really are.
their teacher trainings also require longer practice.
consider the styles the veterans on this board practice.
not a whole lot of bikram going on.
and they're all thinking, "hey man, don't drag me into this"
and now i'm the bad guy...
i'm the yoga snob.
bikram gives you the workout you want.
and you deserve to have that for sure.
and i'm not judging you
or anyone.
but its just that, a workout.
i wanted more.
yoga is union.
and in my short time in ashtanga and iyengar styles, i have made gains in all directions that i couldn't have even imagined in bikram yoga.
...
but thats just me.
everyone else has to find their own way.
Edited by dhanurasana 2006-05-06 10:44 PM
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| you could practice bikram yoga ever day for a year, do the training, and have the resources to teach those 26 postures. agreed. I am on my 60th class and have just about memorized the dialogue completely.
daily practice of other styles for a year will make you realize what a beginner you really are. my back is so badly injured that I need all the practice I can get. At first I thought I'll never be able to do camel pose. After only 2 months I was touching my ankles in the back bend. If that trend continues in two more months I'll be touching my head to the floor. I may do Bikram for another year and then feel it gave me what I needed and try other things. For the next year I think I'll pretty much stick with bikram because it's working for me and giving me exactly what I want every day.
i wanted more.
yoga is union.
not to someone with a broken back and shoulder. Yoga is simply a physical therapy exercise to me to regain my balance and strength. If/when I heal enough I can consider other benefits of Yoga. However, for now Yoga is the best physical therapy for my body I've ever found and Bikram is the best of all the Yoga types for my physical therapy needs. We'll revive this thread in a year and see how I feel 
Edited by Peter Mac 2006-05-07 10:53 AM
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| Peter Mac - 2006-05-06 9:58 PM
Which ones? I really haven't heard of any.
from Yoga Journal:
To some extent, franchising was an inevitable development in the modernization and continuing commercialization of yoga. Founders of other lineages, including Iyengar, Jivamukti, and Kundalini, have copyrighted and trademarked their intellectual property, including names, logos, books, and the like.
Everything given as an example seems completely reasonable to me for copyright/trademark protection.
As in yoga practice, the question is one of intent. Sometimes the motive is protection, sometimes it's commercialization, and sometimes it's both.
Which goes right to my previous question, what are the other trademark holders doing with their trademarks/copyrights? Even open source has copyrights, for good reason, they protect people's intellectual investments.
If Iyengar and Kundalini are so holy and perfect ask them to remove their copyrights. I have done Ashtanga, Iyengar, and Kundalini.
Being holy doesn't mean giving people free reign to steal anything they want from you. Quite the opposite, IMHO. A lot of honest people stay honest because the temptation does not present itself.
Once again, I think Bikram gets attacked because he's seen, rightly or wrongly, as misapplying his rights to attack other people. |
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| dude my body was JACKED when i started doing yoga.
bikram ¥oga.
did it help me? sure.
but it also ended up hurting me. (knees, underdeveloped shoulders, hips)
and glossing over a lot of things that i wish i had known about.
i find my rehabilitation to be much more complete (physically and spiritually) in alignment based yoga styles. the going is slower, but i'm glad i'm learning the precise biomechanics of my body. The muscles/connective tissue that has been the most damaged are things i wasn't even aware of in bikram yoga.
keep up the good work, peter. so long as you're getting what you need, don't let any bow-pose punks tell you how to do your yoga.
...
but also have a little faith that i'm not just blowing smoke up your a$$.
also, a lot of your broken back might be in your hips (mine is/was).
thats something you might want to look into.
the mechanics of hips/sacrum/low back are ridiculously complex, and the pull of wonky ligaments in your hips that connect to your sacrum can cause crippling back pain.
and there are so many of those ligaments, its a lot to deal with.
the shoulder girdle can also be a lot to deal with...
best of luck.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
   
| Iyengar is NOT copyrighted. Yoga is yoga - BKS Iyengar. There are certification trademarks that must be earned through practice and testing and paid for, as with any other training (air conditioner repair people have similar marks, I believe). Yoga is not a commodity but teaching standards can and (IMHO) should be certified in some way and have a governing body and ethical guidelines. |
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| dhanurasana - 2006-05-07 5:07 PM
did it help me? sure.
but it also ended up hurting me. (knees, underdeveloped shoulders, hips)
how can bikram hurt you? If you do any yoga pose properly how is it going to hurt you? Bikram uses classical Yoga poses. he didn't create any new ones.
i find my rehabilitation to be much more complete (physically and spiritually) in alignment based yoga styles. the going is slower, but i'm glad i'm learning the precise biomechanics of my body.
where are you learning? I can't find any classes better than bikram...and that's the problem. If someone has a good routine they really need to standardize it and franchise it so everyone benefits from it. When I go to the local gym I seem to get a different flavor of yoga every time. When I find something that really works I never see it again.
Edited by Peter Mac 2006-05-07 6:01 PM
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| Peter Mac - 2006-05-07 6:00 PM
dhanurasana - 2006-05-07 5:07 PM
did it help me? sure.
but it also ended up hurting me. (knees, underdeveloped shoulders, hips)
how can bikram hurt you? If you do any yoga pose properly how is it going to hurt you? Bikram uses classical Yoga poses. he didn't create any new ones.
Bikram uses a fixed sequence. Thus overtime some parts of the body get overwork, others underworked. This will happen with anybody or anything that doesn't vary their sequence, which is why I don't do the primary series every day.
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| properly is the key word.
working super deep in postures you don't have the body intelligence to go super deep into can really screw up your body when practiced every day. twice.
i'll admit, i had pretty subpar instruction: my hips got pulled way out of alignment in standing splits, my knees got pushed too far in janu sirsasana annnnd i didn't do any inversions.
its certainly possible to not hurt yourself doing bikram yoga, and i'm injury prone to begin with.
BUT
your body is like a combination lock. there are layers upon layers of muscles and tendons that are just waiting to yield to your consciousness. but you won't unlock them by doing the exact same thing every day. there is very precise rotation of muscles and connective tissue required to fully realize your range of motion. its easy to just stretch along a couple lines: i was super flexible from bikram yoga, but only in a couple places. in iyengar yoga, i've taken many steps back in in flexibility, but now upon realizing more and more of my body, i'm becoming more flexible again, and moving with more of my body.
i don't think that standardization and franchising are things that will benefit everyone. look at what its done to our society! every body is different, and has different needs. are there some things that are more universally beneficial? certainly. but if someone has, say, broken shoulders, bikram yoga isn't really doing a lot for that. you need to explore the entire shoulder structure and surrounding musculature.
i'm studying at the local iyengar studio. you said that you had practiced iyengar style before, but for how long? it takes a little while to get used to the system and props and such, and healing takes time regardless of the modality. it is far from gym yoga, which i would not recommend to someone with your sincere interest.
you certainly don't need to quit bikram yoga if you like it and it works for you,
but there might be some other poses that you could like, and could work for you...
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| dhanurasana - 2006-05-07 4:27 PM
your body is like a combination lock. there are layers upon layers of muscles and tendons that are just waiting to yield to your consciousness. but you won't unlock them by doing the exact same thing every day. there is very precise rotation of muscles and connective tissue required to fully realize your range of motion. its easy to just stretch along a couple lines.
Exactly!  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | GreenJello - 2006-05-07 7:09 PM Peter Mac - 2006-05-07 6:00 PM dhanurasana - 2006-05-07 5:07 PM did it help me? sure. but it also ended up hurting me. (knees, underdeveloped shoulders, hips) how can bikram hurt you? If you do any yoga pose properly how is it going to hurt you? Bikram uses classical Yoga poses. he didn't create any new ones. Bikram uses a fixed sequence. Thus overtime some parts of the body get overwork, others underworked. This will happen with anybody or anything that doesn't vary their sequence, which is why I don't do the primary series every day. Yup! |
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| I do wish there were several variations of bikram like bikram A, bikram B, bikram C. I would like to do a few other things. I like side planks. I like the warrior series. I like the sun salutation series. I like the heat and the dialogue, but a few variations of bikram would be well received in my book. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| PM - the key is "properly" and there is a certain amount of controversy in the general yoga community about how properly a pose can be performed with the type of instruction received in a Bikram class. ...how is that for diplomacy?  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Notice I'm keeping my mouth shut here,
Cyndi - Who just signed up for an intensive 6-week Bikram Training Class for Summer....which includes an extensive focus on alignment with my awesome Yoga Instructor!!!
Edited by Cyndi 2006-05-08 10:01 AM
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| i was wondering when you were gonna chime in there, cyndi.
i would wager that you don't fit the profile of the "average" bikramite.
what with all your experience with gurus and masters and such...
that sounds like a pretty intense intensive.
i have faith in one with your intensity, though.
an intensive with extensive focus!
what fun!
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Peter Mac - 2006-05-07 9:22 PM
I do wish there were several variations of bikram like bikram A, bikram B, bikram C. I would like to do a few other things. I like side planks. I like the warrior series. I like the sun salutation series. I like the heat and the dialogue, but a few variations of bikram would be well received in my book.
Sorry I didn't read this carefully enough first time around. Sounds like you are starting to think about going down the "other yoga" path Or "drinking the Kool Aid" as they say |
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Addicted to Bikram
