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| Hey guys, sorry if this has been covered ....
How many classes do you teach a week (including privates)? Anyone teaching 20+ a week? How do you find it? |
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| here's my current class schedule:
Monday: 8:30 am; 10:30 am; 12:00 pm; 2:00 pm; 5:15 pm; 7:00 pm
Tuesday: 8:00 am; 9:45 am; 12:00 pm; 5:00 pm; 7:15 pm.
Wednesday: 8:30 am; 10:30 am; 12:00 pm; 7:00 pm
Thursday: 7:15 pm
Friday: 8:00 am; 9:30 am; 12:00 pm; 5:00 pm
Saturday: 8:00 am; 10:30 am
I teach one to two workshops a week on saturday afternoons for 3 hours. I also teach occassional private lessons beyond those scheduled weekly. I have a standing, monthly Thai Yoga Massage client too--he's on thursdays. I also have a couple of people who jump in on that action occassionally as well. And i have two more private clients pending.
It's a lot of work, but not terrible. Most people get burned out over 15 classes. I find that if most classes are 1 hour long, then teaching 20-25 is do-able. But, i absolutely MUST take vacations that are not yoga related. And, i cannot work for 7 days straight for any longer than 3 weeks. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | I teach 15 classes per week and see 2-3 private clients but it's not all yoga. I also teach pilates (mat & reformer), spin, and strength. Right now I am actually only teaching 1 yoga class. But here is my schedule:
Mon: 9:30 Spin; 10:30 Pilates Mat; 6:30PM Pilates Mat; 7:30PM Pilates Reformer
Tues: 8:30 Reformer; 9:30 Reformer; 6:30PM Strength
Wed: 9:30 Spin; 10:30 Yoga; 5:30PM Reformer; 6:30PM Reformer; 7:30 Private (Reformer)
Thurs: 9:30 Reformer; 10:30 Reformer; 4:30PM Private (Personal Training)
Fri: 9:30 Spin; 11:00 Private (Reformer)
Sat: 8:30 Pilates Mat
I also sub classes when I can (this week I'm teaching a 6:15AM Spin, a 4:30PM yoga and a 6PM yoga on Fri. in addition to my regular classes) and I don't necessarily see all 3 of my clients every week. This schedule is currently working pretty well for me. I teach at only 2 locations and all of my evening classes/clients are at a location that is only about 3 miles from my house. And I have back to back classes at the same location. That really helps a lot so I'm not wasting a lot of time and energy schlepping.
But the main thing that enables me to teach as much as I do is that I teach multiple formats. No way could I teach 15 yogas or 15 pilates and I sure as hell couldn't teach 15 spins! I'm teaching more reformer classes because that is where I had the biggest opportunity to pick up classes. They're smaller (limited to 6 people) and cost an additional fee for the members (I teach in a gym setting) so they're not held in the regular aerobics studio. |
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| oh, reading jackie's schedule reminded me of something: i don't demonstrate while i teach (continuously). I do demonstrate when absolutely necessary (which is occassionally and specificly throughout class). Most classes, i walk around and give adjustments and individual instruction while calling out postures in the sequence.
So, unlike 15 spin classes, which i think would be impossible, i'm not just doing 20-some-odd yoga classes adding up to hours upon hours of yoga doing-while-i'm-teaching per day. That would turn one into a noodle. One of my teachers used to demonstrate through all of her beginner classes, and she tried to only do those once or twice a day, tops, and advanced classes she would call and adjust without demonstrating. She told me that when she demo-ed and practiced, she didn't have a separate asana practice during the day (her own), but on other days when she didn't demo, she'd do her separate yoga class.
because i rarely/never demo, i have a separate yoga practice. Thanks for your input Jackie, as it does make a difference if you're doing-while-teaching (as in spinning for certain, and sometimes in other modalities like yoga) and if you're just leading-while-teaching as i do. |
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| Right now I have 15 regularly scheduled yoga classes, 2 jiu jitsu classes, a group fitness class and a few privates. I have had weeks where I taught (subbed) over 20 yoga classes. it's difficult. I assume Zoebird teaches all those classes in the same place. I have to go from one studio to another and trek all over the city to teach.
More than 4 classes a day is difficult because you are giving off so much energy and it's draining. Also you have to find time to do your own thing like practice, workout, cook, eat, read, pay bills, do laundry and spend time with loved ones. At some point you have to take into account the theory of diminishing returns. You're getting more money, but losing valuable time that you need for yourself and then you're not able to give enough to your students.
ideally, I would like to have more privates so that I can maximize the amount of money I make per hour. However, I love teaching groups. So more workshops is another way to make more money in the same time. Honestly, I don't know how Zoebird does it. That's a lot of classes!
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| Thanks so much for the replies guys (and zoebird you're still a machine! LOL) that gives me a great idea as to what is possible.
I have an opportunity coming up, 20 classes over 5 days. People are telling me it might be too much but it will all be in the one (freaken amazing) studio in a wonderful location that I will be living close to. So no running round here and there and no organising on my behalf needed.
Oh and when I get tired, I can just pop next door for a maasage! 
I think its a goer ... |
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| actually, my radius from home is about 30 minutes, and i things that are scheduled close together tend to be close to each other (within 15 minutes or 20 minutes).
But, here's how my monday looks:
Rise at 6:30 am and do yoga asana and meditation for 1 hour. 7:30 am to 8:15 am--breakfast, wash, chores. 8:15 am, leave for YMCA (first class) which is 5 minutes drive. Prep for class and begin teaching at 8:30. Class ends at 9:30, and then i walk or do some other form of exercise at the Y until 10:15. I drive to my private client (after quick sponge down at Y) who is 5 minutes from the Y. Begin lesson at 10:30 and proceed until 11:30. Next class is 15 minutes drive from private client, beginning at 12:00. I go to the park near this job site and have lunch (packed). I teach from 12:00-1:00 and then make the 20 minute drive to the 2:00 client. I sit in the park near by and read, meditate, go for a walk, or whatever (about 40 minutes). At 3, i'm finished with my client and i have a snack while i head toward the rock gym: 30 minutes away. I get to the rock gym at 3:30 and often climb until 5, when i walk across the parking lot to my 5:15 class. I teach until 6:15, and then drive to my next class--20 minutes away but 5 minutes from home--at 7:00. I often get to this class early, obviously, so we'll often start around 6:45 and finish at 7:45, when i go home. I get home at 7:50, and then change into my PJs and wash my yoga clothes. I have dinner with my husband (usually soup which i made using a crock pot, salad, and bread). I'll then read or meditate or give my husband a thai massage from 9-10, when we also spend time talking to each other. Bed time is 10.
Tuesday is a bit different, of course. I rise at the same time, and breakfast and wash between 7:30 and 7:45. I drive 5 minutes to my private client, and teach him from 8-9. i then drive 30 minutes to the studio where i teach class from 9:45 until 11:15. I arrive at that studio at 9:30 and prepare the room and spend 10 of those 15 minutes in meditation. The last 5 minutes before class are spent checking people in--it seems that no one comes early. When class ends, i see everyone out and do business related to the studio (planning, etc), until 11:30. I then drive 5 minutes to the near-by Quaker meetinghouse where i have lunch (packed) with my husband who works across the street (11:35-12:00). At 12, my clients arrive and i teach class from 12 until 12:45. I spend the last 15 minutes there meditating in the main room of the meeting house. From there, i have the afternoon free, and i generally will do more yoga work--reading, studying, planning, writing, or working on my video as i am now--after i've driven home for 30 minutes or so. before 5, i have a light dinner. At 5, i drive 5 minutes to my client and teach him until 6 (today was cancelled due to illness, thus i'm here writing this post). After this, i usually go to the Y which is 10 minutes from my client, and spend time walking the track or swimming. I wash and then teach at 7:15 until 8:15, and then spend time with my friend/student until 9--often doing yoga, teaching him various alignments and adjustments, giving him new postures to work on, or whatever else. I come home, watch the show Scrubs with my husband, and then we hang out until 10 (we only watch the first scrubs, because bedtime is at ten).
YOu get the idea, right? And this doesn't include work for the rock gym (roughly ten hours a week for my free membership) either. I usually work weekends for them. it's easy work though.  and, i get more time to climb. ON saturday, bed time is at 11 so i get up at 7.
I do more driving than i'd like. In the future, i hope to root most of my classes in a central location--notably my house, with a few classes within 10 minutes drive or less. If i were all in one location, it would certainly be easier, particularly if that location was close to home (so that going home would be easier). I once taught the majority of my classes at one location that was 30 minutes from home, so i never wanted to come home and come back later. you see, i would teach Am and then teach PM and have that huge gap. But i wouldn't want to drive 30 minutes home and stay home for two hours to drive 30 minutes back. It wasn't good for me.
Part of the stamina that i have comes from the fact that i do a lot of work to energeticly seal myself and thai yoga massage--among other modalities--actually becomes a method of supercharging my own energy. It's valuable to me. Also, I do take a lot of time off. Sunday, i rarely do anything related to yoga unless i absolutely must--and i rarely must. I absolutely refuse to work on sunday--except this month where we're working on the video. I will not teach or sub a class on sunday. And thursday is 'mostly off' which is great for me. I only have one class, later in the day, and it's only 5 minutes from home. Easy peasy.
I also think it's imperative to have vacations that are not yoga related. My husband and i take two weekend vacations a year. That may be staying at home and taking day hikes in the local part or it may mean going to a camp site (rented cabin for a weekend at a near-by beach-side camp site is $10 total, two nites, in the off season of early spring and late fall, when we go) for the weekend. We also strive to take two, week-long trips of some sort, usually hiking/camping trips with friends. Usually, one of those is with friends, and one we'll stay home and just 'be' and do nothing or do day-trip stuff.
This year, i'm taking 3-4 weeks for scandenavia, 1 weekend to LA, and one weekend to TX. So, it's not as spread out as i'd like. But, it's absolutely imperative to take non-yoga vacations on a regular basis. this helps reduce burn out and makes you feel human. |
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Honestly, I don't know how Zoebird does it. That's a lot of classes!
I wonder that quite a bit myself.
zoebird - 2006-02-07 7:08 PM
Part of the stamina that i have comes from the fact that i do a lot of work to energeticly seal myself
How do you do that? Closest I've ever seen to something like this is the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentegram. Never really got it to work well for me, but I was also pretty distracted when I was trying it. A bit like trying to raise a tent in a huricane perhaps.
BTW, I also notice that you pack your lunch. Anything interesting, or just the usual sandwiches, etc.
But, it's absolutely imperative to take non-yoga vacations on a regular basis. this helps reduce burn out and makes you feel human.
Last couple of vacations I had, I stopped my practice completely. I originally had intended to keep it up, so as to not lose any momentum, but I found it was better to just let the whole thing drop for a bit. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | Zoe has a good point about the doing vs. demonstrating. I am able to comfortably teach as many classes as I do b/c 7 out of 15 are reformer classes in which I occasionally demonstrate an exercise but spend 95% of the time coaching and correcting. I do the exercises/postures with the class in my other classes (spending more time walking aroung/correcting in yoga and mat pilates than in strength or spin. I get off my bike if someone needs something in spin, but I ride hard with the class most of the time.) It's a good balance for me. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
 
Location: A Blue State | That's such a lot of time teaching, all of you! My own work is ~24/7, but
a lot it can be done off of the computer or alone and at odd times -- as a result,
I can limit the time I am face-to-face with people to something like M-F
and something like 9-5....more or less, there's a lot of leakage from that box.
For me, what would be hard about teaching yoga is not so much the schedules
you've described as the potential repetition of it. Do you find that you are teaching
the same thing again and again, or can you vary and evolve it enough to keep it
interesting? And do your students stick with it and absorb what you are teaching them?
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| I am currently teaching 22 regular classes and 10 privates a week with the occasional workshop every other month and I work 7 days a week. I think teaching by dialoge and not demonstrating all the time is the only way I can do it.
Here is my average week.
Mon-Fri 7-8 am usually a private at either time
Mon-Fri 9 am Yoga
Mon,Wed, Fri 10:30 usually a private
Wed Fri 2-3 pm privates at both hours
Mon-Fri 4:30, 6 PM Yoga
Mon-Fri 7:15 pm
Sat- Sun 10 am Yoga
Sat-Sun 12 privates
Sun: Kung fu class
The thing that really saps my energy is not the teaching(I really love to teach yoga!), but all the rest of the stuff that goes into owning your own studio. The paperwork, the cleaning, dealing with banks, marketing, (did I say paperwork?)yada-yada. Can really kill your teaching buzz!
I think what keeps me going is my practice. I really value to 1-2 hours in the middle of the day that is mine to study my craft. I think I would go insane if I could not practice. |
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| I was up over twenty until this month. For me, this is too much. I think if my classes were only an hour long it would have been a lot easier...something I learned for next round! I had trouble keeping up with the paperwork and all the inquries for classes. I cant sell yoga and I think that people want to be talked into it.
I have yet to figure out a bookkeeping system that I like. I like the professional look of computerized bookkeeping but really prefer to do it all manually. How do you all keep your books? |
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| twisti - 2006-02-08 7:42 AM
I have an opportunity coming up, 20 classes over 5 days. People are telling me it might be too much but it will all be in the one (freaken amazing) studio in a wonderful location that I will be living close to. So no running round here and there and no organising on my behalf needed.
I think its a goer ...
Let me know where you will be in case I need to pop over for a visa run/yoga class |
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| zoebird - 2006-02-07 7:08 PM
Part of the stamina that i have comes from the fact that i do a lot of work to energeticly seal myself
How do you do that?
Well, it's a number of factors. First, i get enough sleep and i consume a lot of nutritional foods. This keeps my body functioning well. Second, I take plenty of time to meditation and other restorative activities. For me, prayer and meditation are deeply restorative activities--restoring my spirit. Sometimes, scriptural study can be that, but sometimes it is also a challenge, so it really depends upon the day. Third, i do a lot of energy work on myself. Through asana practice, pranayama, and even modified thai massage that i can do on myself, i'm able to balance out my energy body. Part of this comes from my philosophy and perspective of energy. Most people see things as positive and negative energy (as in good and bad) rather than in the concept of magnetic polarity. This can affect how they see energy in general, and how they percieve their own energy. Beyond this, i see all energy as inherently beneficial--i'm either giving too much out or blocking my own flow of energy. By doing energy work on myself, i'm able to give out the right/necessary amount and also free myself from energetic blocks. This allows my energy to flow freely. Also related to this, i see energy as constantly flowing through my body/mind/spirit--from earth to sky and from sky to earth. It's not my energy and outter energy, but just energy, and there's always enough for everything that is and everything that needs to be done all of the time. I just have to be present and aware of it. A class cannot take 'too much' energy nor does it ever require more energy than i can provide. When i find a class or individual to be a bit vampiric, i take a step back, evaluate whether or not i'm the right teacher in that circumstance, and then find the appropriate energy to proceed--either to find the person another teacher or to teach the person myself.
I also notice that you pack your lunch. Anything interesting, or just the usual sandwiches, etc.
Breakfast for me is traditionally a smoothie (mixed berries, aloe juice, ice, opt coconut oil, and some sort of nut cream) or an apple or pear, a hard-boiled egg or piece of raw cheese, and some nuts (raw). I pack a snack (which is similar to the second breakfast mentioned or it's veggies and nut-butter). I also pack other pieces of loose fruit. Lunch is typically a salad of some sort--with home made dressing on the side. sometimes, i make a 'wrap.' I have afternoon snacks of fruit or raw veggies (usually at home), and typically dinner is soup, veggies or salad, and bread (sprouted, whole grain) with butter.
I mostly carry around a lot of things that are easy to carry too, just in case it's a particularly 'hungry' day: fruit, nuts and seeds and dried fruit (home-made trail mix), cut veggies, and then my regular lunch stuff. And of course, water. lots and lots of water. I drink a lot of water.
Twice a week, i have lunch 'out' at my friend's restaurant. He makes me a quesadilla. It's a whole wheat tortilla with cheese, fresh chopped peppers and onions, fresh guacamole and sliced avocado. I usually have their home-brew/mix of tea (which is really great) with lime. I may also indulge in corn chips and very mild tomato, black bean salsa. That's iffy. depends upon how hungry i am. It costs $12 per week for these two meals. But, i love my friend, so i go more for the company.
I found it was better to just let the whole thing drop for a bit.
it can be very good. It can often refresh the student for the practice when they come home too.
for teachers, though, there's a tendency to want a yoga vacation because so much of our yoga lives are spent teaching and practicing independently, and taking a class or going on a retreat really is a treat. Also, many of us spend any vacation time that we can spare taking continuing education retreats. These become 'working vacations'--and i know from my own mentality when taking classes with a teacher, that sometimes my mind flips into teacher mode, thinking "hey, this is a great sequence" or 'I really have to remember that so that i can share it with my students" rather than just 'being a student.' While these types of educational experiences are important (and i often recommend to teachers that they strive to take 40 or so hours of continuing education a year), they are an aspect of 'work' or 'career' and like people working as 'professionals' any time spent in continuing ed for that professional is considered time 'at work' whether or not the individual is doing work required for the company. Do you get my meaning? anyway, continuing ed is important. But, vacation is also, and a vacation away from yoga (entirely) can be a great rest that recharges the teacher for work when s/he returns. |
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| BG:
You ask a lot of great, and interesting, and important questions. So, i'll try to answer them. *fingers crossed*
For me, what would be hard about teaching yoga is not so much the schedules
you've described as the potential repetition of it. Do you find that you are teaching
the same thing again and again, or can you vary and evolve it enough to keep it
interesting?
Because i generally teach all-levels classes, there are many things that i do 'again and again'--but i have a reason for it. I teach a lot of alignment, a lot of vinyasa transitional alignment, and so i focus a great deal on the details of poses. It takes time to gain the requisite strength and balance to learn even some of the most basic poses, and if i have brand-new-beginners in my class, there is a focus on the fundamentals--sometimes heavily modified versions of poses to help balance out the new bodies so that they can get to learning the fundamental postures of the practices that i teach.
Similarly, it can take years to master even the most basic posture. Most students are happy to have repitition--and repitition is important. I make sure that most classes include some of the same postures class to class, though occassionally i'll skip some postures in favor of others depending upon the classes' individual needs. I have some classes that are more advanced/experienced students; i have other classes that are predominently beginners; i have some classes that are in between; and private clients also vary widely.
I find that repitition is important to give the student the necessary openings and muscle balance to move into new postures. We might work our way toward posture X, but because the majority of the class has tightnesses 1, 2, and 3, we're going to work the following 17 modifications of these 5 postures so that we can work toward that one pose--which we'll work in modified versions for a few classes before we begin to open into the newly introduced posture.
Because i work with vinyasa, as well, and i work with a variety of students many of whom may have tightnesses 1, 2, and 3, and others in the same classes may have tightness 2, 3, and 7, and still others having 7, 3, and 1, i find that it is incredibly helpful to move the classes through 'known' postures in different ways, through 'grasped' modifications from different starting points or from different 'known postures' so that they can begin to access certain details of the postures that may not have been gained through straight repitition of the same sequence.
Every one of my classes is different, though, not just in asana, but also in focus for the class on various more esoteric levels. Some classes may be ready for more of an explaination of energy work in postural alignment. Others may have a distinct need for certain spiritual encouragements where i can bring in certain teachings or inspirational readings. Others may have a great desire for energy clearing work through asana and pranayama. So, the focus may change depending upon the class not only in the postures taught, and the sequences given, but also in the more esoteric elements depending upon who is present for the class.
As an example, i taught a level 2 class at the Y last nite. Level 2 students are required to 'test in' by passing my sun salutation and chaturanga test. If they're not basicly adept at these poses, it's level 1 for them. No one complains about this. We work a good number of various sequences, and we're focusing right now on the energy body--the basics of the charka system and energetic movement in individual asanas, vinyasa sequences, and pranayama practices. We also do meditations on the charkas or specific chants for the chakras that we work/ed.
But, yesterday was particularly special. My monday, am Y student (level 1), lost her mother on sunday nite and was unable to come to class on tuesday. Her husband also takes me monday am class and asked if she could come for a 'make up' of the class on tuesday. I told her that the level 1 was taught by another teacher (my apprentice), but that she would be more than welcome to attend. Situation being what it was for her, she and her sister arrived 30 minutes late for the level 1 class, but did the closing sequence with them. My apprentice did not know of her situation, but of course welcomed her into his class.
I taught the level 2 directly after, and i invited them to come into the class after we'd finished the sun salutation portion of the class (the first 10 minutes or so). I gave them the signal to come in, and they took the class. Surprisingly, the class itself began to focus on resting in the spirit--a concept widely practiced by catholics during the adoration of the eucharist (i did not know that they were catholic), and also a practice done by quakers when someone they knew was in specific need. It seemed that the class (that is, individual students in the class), felt the deep need of these two sisters in our class, and were deeply loving toward them, offering encouragement and smiles throughout the class whenever they struggled or faultered in movement, or breath--or even just in a bit of grief creeping out--and i also directed the class toward this sense of moving from deep peace, anticipating the movement of the spirit, and i spent a good deal of time singing various songs to the divine mother, whenever we were in a restorative posture.
After class, everyone felt deeply restored (or so they said), even though the class was challenging from an asana perspective. It was certainly a level 2 class, but not beyond the reach of the sisters, as i gave many modifications and the students around the sisters gave them a great deal of support and encouragement to do things modified, not the least of which was my apprentice himself, who positioned himself near them where he could do the modified poses with them--which he did out of his own generosity. I hadn't known that the songs that came to my heart for these two ladies were what the class itself deeply needed too, and that the women felt quite comforted, as it turned out that one of the songs that i sang, their mother used to sing to them while preparing them for bed. And they, as she passed, sang it to her.
This didn't take any extraordinary work or energy, but simply listening to my own heart and doing what came out from beyond that. People felt deeply moved by the practice as a whole--even though we did warrior I or triangle pose like we always did. One student commented "this class felt like church on christmas eve" and others agreed. I felt gratified that there was peace in the practice, and deeply blessed to have been the conduit for that for so many (as the class had 15 or so people in it).
The two sisters are preparing for the funeral now, and have decided to have their mother's song sung at the service--something they hadn't considered before, but remembering how precious it was to them from that class. They said "we really needed this" and felt embraced by a much larger community.
So, i've never really had the problem of classes 'going stale' or becoming to repetitive--because there is so much to share from even one thing, even if it's just 'Om'-ing over and over. There's just so much depth to that, ways to explore it and practice it, that you can never grow tired, you can only grow lazy i guess. And of course, i'm occassionally lazy--particularly when i'm right before a yoga-free vacation.
And do your students stick with it and absorb what you are teaching them?
To the best of my knowledge, yes. My students are strikingly loyal. I often encourage them to try different teachers, to take workshops with 'big name teachers' who come into town and what not. And they always come back to class with their criticisms and comments and experiences and share with me. I've had many students for as long as i've lived in this area, and they always consider the practice fresh, challenging, and engaging--or so they tell me. New students really stick with it too--it's often weird to me to realize, oh my goodness, she's been my student for 3 years! he's been with me for 4! and so on.
do they absorb what i'm teaching them? this is a hard question to answer. From an asana perspective, i'd say the answer is yes. As we work on alignment, on sequencing theory, largely thruogh repitition, they do begin to get it. For some postures, it comes quickly, and less so for other postures, depending upon where the individual started out on their path--their body awareness, their fitness and health, injuries and so on. For the more esoteric stuff, it often takes more repitition--but most students start to 'feel it' or 'get it' once they've been practicing two or three years, as they have a firm grasp of the language of the physical body, and begin to move into the more subtle realms of the energy body, perhaps finally grasping the bandhas from an energetic standpoint rather than an anatomical one. The anatomical may have been achieved in a few months or a year or so, but then the esoteric will click after that. Usually, i spend a lot of time repeating the basics of both the anatomical descriptions and the energetic, and those in the class who are ready for whichever one will 'get it' and often share when they get it as well.
So, i guess the short answer is "yes." |
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| zoebird - 2006-02-08 4:14 PM
zoebird - 2006-02-07 7:08 PM
Part of the stamina that i have comes from the fact that i do a lot of work to energeticly seal myself
How do you do that?
Well, it's a number of factors.
I don't think this answered the question. First you mention ways to increase your energy, which is good. Second, you mention ways to deal with conflict, which is also good. Finally you recommend dealing with the energy in the present situation, and doing meditation. This is problematic, since opening yourself up via these approaches also opens you up for attack.
I would also advise you to rethink your current strategy of pulling away from people. Done with a lack of tact, this can be more of an attack. Retreating also not always an option, since you may have to deal with the person or situation again in the future. Anyway, none of this really addresses the issue of "sealing" yourself energetically. If you can't or won't answer this question, I understand.
I also notice that you pack your lunch. Anything interesting, or just the usual sandwiches, etc.
Sounds pretty good. The thing I really notice about your selections is that you're very aware of exactly what you're eating. I think I need to work on this some more. Thanks.
I found it was better to just let the whole thing drop for a bit.
it can be very good. It can often refresh the student for the practice when they come home too.
I was also vacationing with my folks, and didn't want to deal with the funkiness of any conflict or interest they might express in my "weird eastern stuff". Little bit too disruptive of my practice, so I figured not doing it was easier than dealing with whatever they put into the mix.
for teachers, though, there's a tendency to want a yoga vacation because so much of our yoga lives are spent teaching and practicing independently, and taking a class or going on a retreat really is a treat.
Understandably so.
Do you get my meaning? anyway, continuing ed is important. But, vacation is also, and a vacation away from yoga (entirely) can be a great rest that recharges the teacher for work when s/he returns.
Sure, you want to avoid a busman's holiday. This is also the reason why I switch my schedule around, and don't do the traditional six days a week. To easy to get burnt out. |
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| This is problematic, since opening yourself up via these approaches also opens you up for attack.
attack from whom or what? i generally don't feel attacked when i do these things, though growth has it's challenges. but, i guess i'm so comfortable with those challenges (and expect them), that i don't consider it problematic or something that should concern me. The same equanimity that i have in meditation can be maintained through the growth process.
also, each of these is a way of 'sealing off' the energy that i have. Or, perhaps it was misstated initally. at a certain level, if you mind where energy is going and coming from, where it's over flowing and blocked, and allow it to flow freely and naturally through the whole system (mind/body/spirit), you'll always have enough to do the job that needs to be done, the work that needs to be done.
I would also advise you to rethink your current strategy of pulling away from people. Done with a lack of tact, this can be more of an attack. Retreating also not always an option, since you may have to deal with the person or situation again in the future.
this can only be done through contemplation. It is obvious to me that while i may come highly recommended or a student may come to me for this or that reason (or through recommendation), that the student 'isn't for me' nor 'i for them.' There's never any animosity when i decide to forgo a job or a client, as i always explain my reasons for it (including energetic/time constraints), and i always provide them with a couple of other options--other teachers to call and consider. I always contact those teachers first, discuss the client's needs, and ask them if they want to work with this person. If they agree, then i pass on their numbers. When i see these students in public or in other venues, i ask about their practice, whether or not they 'clicked' with one of those teachers--and i also follow up with those teachers.
At this stage in the game for me--getting jobs--i can be picky. I have more offers than i can actually fill, and some employers (whether independent clients OR studios, gyms, or wellness centers) want me to give far more than i can or want to. It is appropriate for me to not take any job offered, and it is appropriate for me to weigh which jobs i want and which i don't. Generally speaking, when i decide to forgo a job--say i've already started teaching at the facility--i'll teach there for 4-8 weeks to give it a try, and then give at least two weeks notice and a list of other potential teachers to try instead of me. When i'm working with a private client, i explain why i cannot work with them, and how another teacher may be better. I bring the teachers to the next few lessons (as most people buy a 6-week package from me to begin with), and then they choose which teacher they prefer as i will not be teaching them.
I was also vacationing with my folks, and didn't want to deal with the funkiness of any conflict or interest they might express in my "weird eastern stuff". Little bit too disruptive of my practice, so I figured not doing it was easier than dealing with whatever they put into the mix.
likely so. fortunately, this is not a problem in my family, and often they encourage me (and go with me) to try classes in other locations. I took one yoga class in seattle, for instance. it was a good class, but i shouldn't have taken it. It put me back in 'work mode' and it was so nice--until then and after then--to be completely away from work and work issues.
This is also the reason why I switch my schedule around, and don't do the traditional six days a week. To easy to get burnt out.
yes, it is--no matter what you're doing. I think one has to be mindful of whether or not they're over working or if they are getting 'burnt out'--no matter what the work or activity is. We need times to rest, times to retreat, and perhaps a new schedule or way of doing things. these can be very, very beneficial to us--no matter what we're moving around. |
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| zoebird - 2006-02-09 9:50 AM
This is problematic, since opening yourself up via these approaches also opens you up for attack.
attack from whom or what? i generally don't feel attacked when i do these things, though growth has it's challenges. but, i guess i'm so comfortable with those challenges (and expect them ), that i don't consider it problematic or something that should concern me. The same equanimity that i have in meditation can be maintained through the growth process.
Actually I wasn't thinking about during the process, but afterwards. During the process it can get annoying sometimes, between the knocks at the door, and the phone ringing. One of the local teachers got so irritated by it that he sent out a letter to all his friends explaining that they were not to contact him at time X because he would be meditating. I also think this is the reason why a lot of meditators are urged to do it during hours that most people are asleep. While there's a certain quietness that's present when everybody else is asleep, there's also less chance of getting a phone call. 
There's also a certain point at which you just become overly sensitive. You become to aware of all the things going on that you really can't deal with. You see all the petty dramas going on internally, and with your folks, and with all the people you know. Maybe this is what you're refering to as growing pains, maybe not. Maybe it's a matter of out psyching myself.
To give an example, my father has a problem with watching TV, particular political shows that just serve to get him fired up. If he didn't watch those shows he wouldn't spend all his time getting po'ed. In other words, his expanded awareness of things going on around him is more harmful than not knowing.
To give another example, it can become very painful to deal with some people once you're aware of the underlying issues they're dealing with. I went to a party a while ago, and was introduced to a "nice" lady. After having spoken with her for about a minute my intuition was telling me that she had some pretty major issues. (I was able to confirm this be speaking with a friend of mine who had gone out with her for a several months) It's hard to see that, and not get sucked into the drama, and pulled down by it.
To give a third example, I usually know what's going on in people's relationships after having spoken with them for a few minutes in person. It's just incredibly obvious from their body language, diction, and things I can't explain. And then what do you do? My friend Matt got divorced a while back, but I knew what was likely to happen after having met his wife for the first time at the wedding..... Ugly ugly ugly.
Anyway, you can see this by the fact that a lot of meditators go through a period where everything is an irritation, up to and including the pressure of air on their skin. St. John of the Cross talks about everything getting burned off as dross by the process, so that all your old stuff just seems completely gross and disgusting. Things that once seemed fine, are exposed in the bright light of a greater purity to be sick and diseased.
While all these changes are going on, we're still in the world, and forced to deal with it. In my case I still have to go to work, and attempt to earn a pay check.
There's also the issue that meditation helps to concentrate attention. Most people need attention at some level, and the better/more attention they can get the better. So by meditation you increase your ability to give people what they want. Once people figure this out, they tend to attempt to pull you into a variety of games, since they know the pay-off will be much better. So in this regard meditation also provokes attacks.
also, each of these is a way of 'sealing off' the energy that i have. Or, perhaps it was misstated initally.
Maybe, I think your answers were very good, but not what I was expecting.
this can only be done through contemplation. It is obvious to me that while i may come highly recommended or a student may come to me for this or that reason (or through recommendation), that the student 'isn't for me' nor 'i for them.' There's never any animosity when i decide to forgo a job or a client, as i always explain my reasons for it (including energetic/time constraints), and i always provide them with a couple of other options--other teachers to call and consider.
As long as you're explaining yourself there shouldn't be a problem, though sometimes even this is a bit surprising for some people. This is where tact comes in.
Going back to the lady I was talking about in the earlier example. I spoke with her briefly at the beginning of the party, and she spent the rest of the night following me around. I was trying to be polite, but avoid her at the same time, and it just wasn't working. OTOH, speaking with her in front of all those people probably would have caused her some embarashment, and been a bit of an overreaction.
Edited by GreenJello 2006-02-09 10:49 AM
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| Well h&ll ~ I was going to explore meditation a little more in depth, but if it's going to make me over sensitive, screw that. I'll stick to being blissfully oblivious. |
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| During the process it can get annoying sometimes, between the knocks at the door, and the phone ringing.
i spend most of my day alone, without phones ringing or people coming to my door. i have few friends, most of whom work while i'm meditating. I do most of my meditating in the afternoon, away from the phone (i'll actually disconnect it), and if i hear a doorbell or knock (from a delivery person), then i simply embrace it as part of the practice as well, as i would the sound of a crow. Perhaps this comes from thich naht hanh's recommendations.
There's also a certain point at which you just become overly sensitive. You become to aware of all the things going on that you really can't deal with. You see all the petty dramas going on internally, and with your folks, and with all the people you know. Maybe this is what you're refering to as growing pains, maybe not. Maybe it's a matter of out psyching myself.
not necessarily, but it does happen. usually the unguided meditator will become overly sensitive or have other problems. but, it's not necessarily going to happen.
also, i rely very heavily on the concept of the serenity prayer. change what i can; accept what i can't. buddhism focuses a lot on accepting what is, while still engaging and working to better it--coming from a point of equanimity about it. so, it's about personal, psychological boundaries. and, meditation provides mental clarity for this.
St. John of the Cross talks about everything getting burned off as dross by the process, so that all your old stuff just seems completely gross and disgusting. Things that once seemed fine, are exposed in the bright light of a greater purity to be sick and diseased.
i don't know if this is irritating though. what it shows me, when things are brought to light, is where my work lies, and then i set about to make changes. I start with small changes, and i rely on both contemplation and meditation to provide clarity in the changes that i need to make. the meditation and contemplation are part of the purification process. not only do they point out what needs to be changed/done, but they also provide clarity on how to do it effectively.
i also have patience with myself. Much of what i do that isn't good, that is 'sick and diseased'--i don't necessarily know about intitially. That is, i may behave this way or that because of psychological trauma, or social issues, or what have you. when these things become obviously problematic to me, i forgive myself for being ignorant, and set to the work of fixing it. There's no need to fixate or be irritated by the fact that i was or am problematic. Simply, i need to make changes and make ammends for having been problematic once i move on.
It's kinda like catholic confession. We go in and say 'these are the things that i've done wrong, the things that i'm struggling with." and then the priest provides us with prayers and works as pennance so that we can figure out how to 'go forth and sin no more' which is stated at the end of the absolution. The idea is, once we know that something is a sin--or a problem for us--that we work through why, how, and when we do it, and then strive to find new ways to approach things and behave.
Guilt, irritation, all of that isn't necessary. Recognizing that it happens, that it's where i was/were, and that i'm now in the process of changing is enough. For me, this comes out of meditation techniques as well. In some techniques, they say "if you find yoruself daydreaming during meditation, recognize it as a day dream, without judgement, and then let it pass." and/or 'if you find yourself thinking during meditation, acknowledge the thought, and let the thoughts pass through your mind like clouds in the sky." To me, in a sense, recognizing the 'sick' things that i am or do is something that i can do without judgement. I do not judge clouds moving through the sky, nor thoughts moving thruogh my mind in meditation, so why would i so harshly judge myself for being human, errant, and making mistakes? particularly now, when it doesn't serve me to do so, because i have other work to do--that is, the work of moving away form those attachments and behavoirs into more positive ones.
While all these changes are going on, we're still in the world, and forced to deal with it. In my case I still have to go to work, and attempt to earn a pay check.
well, to quote old st paul, 'be in the world, and not of it.' I have to go to work too; i also earn a pay check. I'm not beyond bills or having relationships and recognizing that there's a lot of area in my world where i have personal work to get done. But, these changes are part of this world i live in. They're nto separate at all, they're integrated. This might be why it doesn't cause me a great problem.
When i recognize that something needs to be dealt with, i often recognize that it is something that floods into every area of my life. Not only my personal life/interior life, but also my relationships with friends and family, my work relationships, my client relationships, and perhaps even my perspective of all of these things as well. It may also impact the larger community, and even my international community (such as the issue of the danish cartoons). the changes i make may have more direct impact in one area than another, but it's going to affect all areas--and it's going to do so positively. If i'm improving, then everything else around me improves as well.
For me, meditation is a touchstone for clarity in my life, a place of peace and a place where i can practice the equanimity necessary to move through the world in mindfulness, to do everything from that balanced, peaceful, mindful space. I haven't mastered it by a long shot. but, i feel that it is very helpful to me, so i do it often. |
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Well h&ll ~ I was going to explore meditation a little more in depth, but if it's going to make me over sensitive, screw that. I'll stick to being blissfully oblivious.
You can do that, I think it depends on how you want to deal with the sh!t. You can either see it coming, and prepare, or get smacked full in the face w/o warning. Ignorance is NOT strength, despite what Orwell would have you believe.
In the case of the girl at the party, I saved myself a world of hurt. Actually she wasn't the only one I had problems with, there were a couple others who I had just an intution about where they were coming from. Unfortunately, it bothers me when all I have is intution, because it's very subjective. It's hard enough being objective, dealing with you own situation is 100x worse. However, I later had confirmation of the things I had intuted.
zoebird - 2006-02-09 11:34 AM
During the process it can get annoying sometimes, between the knocks at the door, and the phone ringing.
i spend most of my day alone, without phones ringing or people coming to my door. i have few friends, most of whom work while i'm meditating. I do most of my meditating in the afternoon, away from the phone (i'll actually disconnect it ), and if i hear a doorbell or knock (from a delivery person ), then i simply embrace it as part of the practice as well, as i would the sound of a crow. Perhaps this comes from thich naht hanh's recommendations.
I have few problems with it as well, though I do have one friend who was particulary good at calling at the wrong time. I think I'm attempting to point to a more general problem, though maybe dealing directly with the details might be a better approach.
There's also a certain point at which you just become overly sensitive. You become to aware of all the things going on that you really can't deal with. You see all the petty dramas going on internally, and with your folks, and with all the people you know. Maybe this is what you're refering to as growing pains, maybe not. Maybe it's a matter of out psyching myself.
not necessarily, but it does happen. usually the unguided meditator will become overly sensitive or have other problems. but, it's not necessarily going to happen.
Maybe, maybe not. Part of the reason I started going to class and visiting the site was to compare notes. FWIW, I'm not really sure what you mean by unguided. I've yet to speak with anybody who could go beyond the simple exoteric explainations of meditation, for a variety of reasons. Maybe I need to keep looking.
St. John of the Cross talks about everything getting burned off as dross by the process, so that all your old stuff just seems completely gross and disgusting. Things that once seemed fine, are exposed in the bright light of a greater purity to be sick and diseased.
i don't know if this is irritating though. what it shows me, when things are brought to light, is where my work lies, and then i set about to make changes. I start with small changes, and i rely on both contemplation and meditation to provide clarity in the changes that i need to make. the meditation and contemplation are part of the purification process. not only do they point out what needs to be changed/done, but they also provide clarity on how to do it effectively.
Okay, maybe I'm getting into a variety of value traps, where I think I HAVE to do something and I don't. In this case, were I feel trapped, it's harder to deal with the awareness of the problem, than when I don't have this awareness. I think this is part of the reason why so many people are ignorant, it's partially willed because they don't know how to deal with the situation.
Guilt, irritation, all of that isn't necessary. Recognizing that it happens, that it's where i was/were, and that i'm now in the process of changing is enough. For me, this comes out of meditation techniques as well. In some techniques, they say "if you find yoruself daydreaming during meditation, recognize it as a day dream, without judgement, and then let it pass." and/or 'if you find yourself thinking during meditation, acknowledge the thought, and let the thoughts pass through your mind like clouds in the sky." To me, in a sense, recognizing the 'sick' things that i am or do is something that i can do without judgement. I do not judge clouds moving through the sky, nor thoughts moving thruogh my mind in meditation, so why would i so harshly judge myself for being human, errant, and making mistakes? particularly now, when it doesn't serve me to do so, because i have other work to do--that is, the work of moving away form those attachments and behavoirs into more positive ones.
Agreed, this is something I've gotten out of it too.
For me, meditation is a touchstone for clarity in my life, a place of peace and a place where i can practice the equanimity necessary to move through the world in mindfulness, to do everything from that balanced, peaceful, mindful space. I haven't mastered it by a long shot. but, i feel that it is very helpful to me, so i do it often.
I agree, particular about the helpful part, please don't feel I'm saying that meditation is bad. I've got a personal practice that I feel is strong, or at least consistent , but what I'm dealing with here are the pitfalls.
I've heard WAY too many new-age gurus give a lot of airy-fairy advice, without really dealing with the drawbacks and problems also associated with it. This might be because they haven't progressed much beyond the beginner stage, or maybe they're regugitating all the things they've heard. Maybe they just want to encourage people to do it, and don't want to discourage them before they get started (hi Kabu!). It doesn't sell that many books to tell people that meditation is hard, or going to cause problems, or make some things worse. Maybe I'm more willing to talk about the darkness because I don't have to sell any books, or I'm just more comfortable being negative. As an engineer, my first question is "What is this going to cost me?", "What are the trade-offs" |
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| I think I'm attempting to point to a more general problem, though maybe dealing directly with the details might be a better approach.
i don't know what the 'general problem' you're refering to is.
Maybe, maybe not. Part of the reason I started going to class and visiting the site was to compare notes. FWIW, I'm not really sure what you mean by unguided. I've yet to speak with anybody who could go beyond the simple exoteric explainations of meditation, for a variety of reasons. Maybe I need to keep looking.
without an experienced teacher. i don't necessarily mean guided through the meditation, but with a person who has more experience with meditation that you do, who understands what comes up and when and how and why, and can help guide the student toward healthy behavoirs in regards to what comes up.
I think this is part of the reason why so many people are ignorant, it's partially willed because they don't know how to deal with the situation.
i agree that people often choose to be willfully ignorant of any number of situations. i do it too--avoiding certain information as long as i can. It can be difficult to have the faith to recognize that you don't necessarily have to know how to deal with something, but that knowing about it--for now--is enough, and then as you begin to understand it, come to terms with it, the path will be obvious from there. But, it certainly takes an element of faith--faith in your own ability to survive whatever is coming.
that meditation is hard, or going to cause problems, or make some things worse. Maybe I'm more willing to talk about the darkness because I don't have to sell any books, or I'm just more comfortable being negative. As an engineer, my first question is "What is this going to cost me?", "What are the trade-offs"
i see it in this way. meditation won't make things worse, but it isn't an easy fix or an easy path. it certainly has difficulties and i admit that. All growth has difficulties, and one's perspective on this process has a great bearing on whether or not this is 'getting worse' or actually 'getting better.'
i like to use examples from the physical, because it makes sense. as a kid, my father broke his nose many times playing football, and he would always straighten it out with his hands, put tape over it, and head back into the game. years later, he had bone spurs, growths, and polyps in his nose, making it difficult to breath and bringing about incredible snoring that kept both he and my mother awake at nite. his ear, nose, and throat doctor recommended surgery to fix his nose (having noticed the many breaks) and removing the spurs, growths, and polyps.
My father went in for surgery and they removed whatever they could and BROKE his nose. They had to break it to reset it properly, to make sure it would heal well. Sometimes, things have to get 'worse' before they get better. But once he recovered from the process--which didn't take terribly long--he was able to breathe better and has no real problems, and his nose looks good. So, it works out, right?
This, to me, is a great example of injury. Say we have a psychic or psychological injury. As a child, i suffered a trauma. As a result of that trauma, i started behaving in these particular, negative (or less productive or less healthy) behavoiral patterns. Over many years, i prepetuated these patterns causing a recurrent problem. I couldn't figure out 'why this keeps happening to me.' So, i go to the psychologist and she helps me uncover the childhood trauma and my response to it--the pattern of relating that kept causing, or caused in part, the recurrent problem. I have to face this original problem and heal it properly, learning to understand what happened, embrace it in a sense, work through it, and learn new patterns of behavoir. All of this is hard work, and things seem to get much WORSE before they get much better.
But, i don't necessarily see it as 'worse' so much as 'what is necessary' and 'par for the course' and a natural part of this process of growth. A lot of it IS undoing what we have done in the past--whether it was breaking a nose and resetting it ourselves or putting a certain behavoiral pattern in place in response to the trauma. Things do get more difficult, more challenging, but the end result--if you keep moving through the process--is the peace of understanding and having a better situation than where you started.
It certainly takes a certain level of faith, when the going gets tough--like when the nose is rebroken in surgery or the psychologist uncovers the trauma that was long-burried--you can survive that and it will give you a better situation once you've come through it.
So to me, this is a natural part of meditation. I expect it. You meditate, things are going to be uncovered. Those things are not necessarily going to be pleasant. But, you'll work through them and be better on the other end. And, it's not impossible to work through, nor is it necessary "bad" or "terrible" ro even a "dark side." it's just part of the healing process. Sometimes, to reset a bone properly, you have to break it again and go through the healing process. To clear and infection, you often have to lance the boil and then use an ointment. To heal from a psychological/behavoiral problem, you have to go back to the trauma, understand it, heal from it, and make different behavoiral decisions.
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| zoebird - 2006-02-09 1:24 PM
I think I'm attempting to point to a more general problem, though maybe dealing directly with the details might be a better approach.
i don't know what the 'general problem' you're refering to is.
And I don't know how to communicate it. Let me think about it some.
i see it in this way. meditation won't make things worse, but it isn't an easy fix or an easy path. it certainly has difficulties and i admit that. All growth has difficulties, and one's perspective on this process has a great bearing on whether or not this is 'getting worse' or actually 'getting better.'
Okay, I'll agree with you on this. You do know what I mean when I talk about the airy-fairy nonsense right?
This, to me, is a great example of injury. Say we have a psychic or psychological injury. As a child, i suffered a trauma. As a result of that trauma, i started behaving in these particular, negative (or less productive or less healthy) behavoiral patterns. Over many years, i prepetuated these patterns causing a recurrent problem. I couldn't figure out 'why this keeps happening to me.' So, i go to the psychologist and she helps me uncover the childhood trauma and my response to it--the pattern of relating that kept causing, or caused in part, the recurrent problem. I have to face this original problem and heal it properly, learning to understand what happened, embrace it in a sense, work through it, and learn new patterns of behavoir. All of this is hard work, and things seem to get much WORSE before they get much better.
Which might be what I need to do, is find a decent psychologist.
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| You do know what I mean when I talk about the airy-fairy nonsense right?
yes.
Which might be what I need to do, is find a decent psychologist.
i highly value my time spent in councelling (two years in college) and wouldn't hesitate to return if i felt overwhelmed with a particular issue and had very little skill to help resolve it. I highly recommend it for most people, as it teaches very valuable skills and provides a safe environment for exploring various aspects of our emotional and behavoiral lives. |
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| GreenJello -
You can do that, I think it depends on how you want to deal with the sh!t. You can either see it coming, and prepare, or get smacked full in the face w/o warning. Ignorance is NOT strength, despite what Orwell would have you believe.
Can't there be a happy medium though? Maybe a place where you can be comfortable and open with people but still spot "crazy" (or "difficult" or whatever adjective you want to give a person) soon enough to avoid it. |
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how many classes a week?
