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| i do also make a statement before i teach a class--if there are new people present--that i do give hands-on adjustments and that if you don't want to be touched, please let me know. So, at a certain point, i then function from the assumption that unless they say otherwise, they consent to the touch because i made the announcement.
also, i have to admit that many of my clients are thrilled that i give adjustments. many of them come from teachers or studios where the teacher either stood at the front of the classroom and did the poses or sat in the front of the class room and called the poses. they said that they never knew if they were doing the posture properly, and they never got to know the teacher and make that relationship that we have. Once they started with me, they felt more confident in their postures and were more easily able to enter into the pose--because like what tourist said, it's really about making muscle memory.
and of course, i always use lots of methods such as demonstration, explaination, directional pointing, etc.
but, in light of this post stream, i gave myself a personal challenge to assist as little as possible during a class--or to only use light assists (two adn three finger adjustments). I find that light assists were just as informative as 'heavy' assists, and i only did 'heavy' assists when asked. it worked out fine. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | YogaGuy - 2005-11-26 10:22 PM
booga - 2005-11-26 4:57 PM
I personally have worked with a myriad of clients over many, many years - and in yoga - there is never a reason to touch anyone. Never.
I find blanket statements like this rather unhelpful. It presupposes that touching is somehow bad. It speaks more to your own issues and biases, Booga. You are entitled to your opinions, but taking a hard stance against touching people seems shortsighted.
Your right YogaGuy. Once on this forum I talked about how I hated being touched...but not for the same reasons, sexually or whatever that you guys are talking about. There are times I simply don't want an adjustment in certain poses that I KNOW are going to send me to the edge that maybe I'm not ready for yet and I already KNOW it before the teacher comes near me. I have no problems whispering my concerns to an instructor if she tries to take me further than I KNOW I am NOT ready to go to, but thankfully, my instructor is very intuitive to my needs and hasn't failed me yet. Sometimes I have voiced a concern and she lightly approaches me and that's even better when she senses my need and gently pushes me instead. Overall, I welcome the teacher to touch me...especially in half-tortoise, like please put your foot on my A$$ to hold it down so it will touch my heels, 
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| Yeah, it's an old thread but I'm just catching up and feeling oddly like replying to things today. I'm just blown away by some of the descriptions of "adjustments" from people on this site. I've seen them in this thread and many other threads and I'm always stunned. Sure, everyone has a different opinion on this but to my thinking at the very most I can envision situations where an instructor would place a finger on a student to demonstrate the proper direction of rotation. Beyond that, it's not only uncalled for but it goes against what yoga is supposed to be in my opinion. To cite the example in the original post Mishoga was in rajakapotasana and her hips were not all the way on the floor. An instructor may point that out, could even place a finger on the side of her hip and try to show her the direction of rotation if it appeard that Mishoga was confused, but that's about the end of it. Anything else comes not from "yoga", which is, if I recall, binding the body, mind and spirit. It comes from a desire for attainment or success. If this instructor had succeeded in getting her hips all the way down then she would have felt successful. It was a selfish, egotistical act and it's way too common in yoga classes. It becomes all about what can be done rather than what can be experienced. I've read other posts of instructors pushing or pulling people not to correct alignment but to deepen a pose. When the body is ready to go further it will! Take something simple such as Baddha Konasana. If a student's legs don't go all the way down then they are not ready. Pushing them down, as has been described in another thread, accomplishes nothing. The instructor has passed along no wisdom and the student has gained nothing. If a student's legs are down in Baddha Konasana, or hips in Rajakapotasana, through outside assistance then I'm sorry, that student is NOT in that pose. They are merely pretending and all that they are learning is that violence against their own body is acceptable if it brings about a false sense of attainment. Asanas are not attained, they are mastered over time, and that process is full of experiences and discoveries. No amount of weight on someone's hips will bring about mastery. This is the same thinking that I have read on here from time to time that says that if a student is physically able to perform a pose correctly then it's ok. I think I read that thought process in a thread about teaching new students Bakasana, with the thinking being that some can get into it right away and it gives them a sense of accomplishment. Simply getting one's physical body into a prescribed position does not accomplish anything, and promoting a sense of accomplishment for balancing on one's hands without really understanding the intricacies of balances, of breathing and expanding in them, shortchanges the student. But I'm in full ramble now and it's probably best to stop typing. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
  
| Yes Steven I think adjustments are a big question. I have had some quite intense adjustments from VERY experienced teachers that brought me into a full pose (bound maricyasana III for example) that I will likely never fully achieve on my own. I appreciated them though, not for any sense of accomplishment but for giving me the experience fo the pose and giving my body the sense memory that can be stored just in case I get there one day. I do not do adjustments like that myself and neither do my teachers who have 30 years of experience but not because we feel they are "wrong." We just aren't qualified or skillful enough to do them. I do some adjustments however, that are much more than a point in the right direction. I will put my foot on a thigh to hold it down while the student lifts the other leg for supta padangustasana. I don't push it down, but stabilise it so they understand the pose better or can go more deeply into their own range of motion. So that might seem extreme to some but I feel it is both safe and helpful. OTOH, the gentle, one finger "move here" adjustment is wonderful because then, if it is done well and the student really is able to do the action, then it is all their own work and there is indeed more of a feeling of accomplishment  |
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| Well said, Steven. Very thoughtful. |
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| Like I have said before there are different kinds of adjustments. Some are subtle, like the finger touch. Some are deep like the Marichyasana C/D adjustments. Personally, I like both adjustments. I equate it to Thai Massage. Some deep adjustments just feel awesome. Although, I think everything has a time and place. You can get a lot out of thai massage, regular massage, partner stretches and deep adjustments. You have to be open to it. The fact is that you can't do everything yourself. You can learn a lot and do certain things that are just impossible by yourself, if you have help.
Why limit yourself and your experience? |
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| Touching is such a contentious issue.
Someone who feels anxious about being touched is not likely to announce it- issues! Likewise, teachers expose themselves to false allegations.
As a male teacher I avoid touching female yogis becasue anywhere can be construed as intimate; likewise, as a gay person, I avoid touching male yogis too because anywhere can be construed as intimate- go figure! LOL
I assume no one likes being touched and guide them indirectly;- eg if in plough-" straighten your legs till they touch my hands; pull your shoulders back until you feel my hands etc ...
I had a client I knew fairly well, but when I touched between her scapula she literally bolted out of her skin! Fortunately it was a forward bend so no harm was done but i learnt everyone has different "space issues." I also announce to my classes that if they require assistance/adjustment to call me. that also give me an idea of who welcomes further assistance.
RE: your original session where the teacher forced and hurt you. I learnt that mistake twice from one of my teachers. now I just say NO! and I teach my classes to say NO! too. Nobody understands your body better than you do, likewise, there is no such thing as a perfect posture that allows anyone to force you into.
We learn. |
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| My two teachers have very differing approaches.
My Sivananda tutor (male) is almost entirely verbal in his corrections. Very occassionally he will ask a student if they would appreciate adjustment. If yes, there's a finger-tip prod. He'll often get one of his more experienced students to demo at the front of class in order to point out areas of weakness/strength to the rest of us.
My Iyengar teacher is more frequent and deeper with her adjustments. She'll gently use hands or feet to get you right. We also do more partner yoga in my Iyengar class such as mirroring downward facing dog in order to encourage each others heels down. She'll often use a strap or block to adjust. Blocks can be very useful in flattening hips for example as that touch could be a very intimate one for some, but with a block between you and the tutor, it's maybe not so contentious? She also uses students to demo, sometimes getting them to wear their belt to emphasise where lines should be straight.
Personally, I prefer my Iyengar teacher's approach as I feel I've learnt more about my own spatial awareness with her in a few short weeks than I have done in ages in my Sivananda class and I know I need pushing sometimes as I lack courage in certain asanas. It seems to be showing on my body too as my inner thighs have tightened a lot during this set of classes (we've been focusssing on the correct leg and hip work for standing poses, particularly triangle). I can see that some would have issues though as her verbal observations and touching are a lot more intimate (in the good sense).
I find I get more out of my Sivananda class spiritually however as we do breath work, chanting, and deep relaxation to a much greater extent and the vinyasa sequences work my heart more.
I intend to find a weekend class in the New Year to explore learning from different tutors/traditions further. Any tips on what features of the class description I should look for given that I'm looking for something restorative to balance Monday night's Iyengar alignment 'torture' and Wednesday night's Sivananda' exhausting vinyasa :-) ?
Fee
Edited by Orbilia 2005-12-19 9:58 AM
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| YogaGuy, you are full of wisdom! Made for excellent reading and food for thought.
I find "sometimes" i limit myself in poses to how far i think i can go (muscle memory) and here comes teacher and skillfully gently puts me deeper than my mental limits were allowing me. in other words he/she can see i can go deeper, where i could not see. this is the importance of adjustments. on the same token, sometimes teacher comes round and says "uhh maybe not today" when i am trying to put the left leg behind the head and its still not happening (sheesh!! when???)
the first yoga studio i used to go to - the owner/manager was a practicioner but not a teacher. whenever "my" teacher was absent i would frown and she'd be like "it's not about the teacher, it's about the yoga" and so ok that made sense at the time. but now, i know it is all about the teacher i'm vibing with. maybe not in misha's case but i find that often the management doesnt necessarily have the yoga experience that the teacher does especially at a spa or gym or even a studio given that their main focus is outside of "the yoga." so this translates into a focus on nurturing the "client" (i prefer student) rather than nurturing the teacher. then what develops is, because i have become close friends with some of my teachers i know this, an antagonistic relationship between teacher/manager due to manager/client relationship. when it should be all about teacher/student. maybe not in the case of injury related things but many of the "complaints" - i also worked behind the desk at a studio - are quite petty. oh the teacher didnt do headstand, oh the class was too hard, too easy, too many people, not enough people. all that translates to management pressure to the teacher.. do this, do that.
when i was a new student, i thought an "injury" was something that only happened when one was in a car accident. i think sometimes experienced teachers may expect maybe too much from students in the sense of communication. in fact the less i said and faster i was in and out of there the better for me at that time.
anyway this has been a great topic.. ciao |
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Very upset with a teacher
