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Question 3: Awkward Pose
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delania
Posted 2008-04-28 10:33 AM (#106741)
Subject: Question 3: Awkward Pose


Awkward pose feels exactly as the name implies: awkward. I have a very hard time putting the weight on my heels in the first set, and a very hard time getting onto my toes in the second. But my question stems from what happens immediatetly after the posture is over: my feet HURT. Really hurt. I read another post where replies suggested that you should go onto the balls of your feet, not your toes. I tried this and my feet still hurt. Are they just building in strength? Am I doing something incorrectly? Is this common?
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ajb
Posted 2008-04-29 10:20 AM (#106757 - in reply to #106741)
Subject: RE: Question 3: Awkward Pose


Hmmmm, how long have you been practicing? If you just started, your feet may hurt since they aren't used to it. Where does it hurt? Your toes? The heel? My advice to you would be, if it "really hurts", take it easy with this posture. Slight discomfort, ok. Really hurting, hold back a little. That's just my opinion. Also, ask your instructor and/or studio director to take a look at you doing Awkward after class. Then they'll see how you are doing it and give you some suggestions. And yes, the pose is just that - Awkward. "Rib cage visible in the mirror." I've been practicing for almost 2 yrs and my rib cage, in my opinion, is not visible & and coming up after the 3rd part, I still struggle coming up with a straight back. It just takes time. Ease into and out of the postue if you feel pain and you should definitely be able to talk to teachers before or after class. Good luck!
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Duffy Pratt
Posted 2008-04-29 1:37 PM (#106764 - in reply to #106741)
Subject: RE: Question 3: Awkward Pose


Before anyone here can help you, I think you have to be much more specific about how your feet hurt.

Also, awkward pose is one of the poses that really blurs the distinction between discomfort, pain, and injury. When I'm doing awkward pose well, my thighs quiver, my knees might start to shake (especially in second part), my shoulders start screaming at me. In short, it HURTS. If it didn't hurt, at my current strength, then I would be doing it wrong. OTOH, this is the sort of pain that I'm very familiar with, and I know that it won't lead to any serious injury.

There's no way I can know if the same is true about your feet hurting. It's surprising, however, that you say they hurt afterward. Is it a pain that only starts afterward, or does it start during the posture and continue after you come out?

Duffy
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Waterwatch
Posted 2008-04-29 6:07 PM (#106777 - in reply to #106741)
Subject: RE: Question 3: Awkward Pose


Hi Delania!

Is it pain you feel or a pins and needles type numbness? For the first few months I would get that numb type pain/discomfort in my toes after both Awkward and Eagle pose. It rarely happens now, if at all.

Now that I've reminded myself about it, watch it happen tomorrow

It aint' called Awkward for nothing!

Good Luck with your practice.

Barb

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nucleareggset
Posted 2008-04-29 7:01 PM (#106778 - in reply to #106741)
Subject: RE: Question 3: Awkward Pose


so, I don't do bikram, but I'm in teacher training, and find the anatomical process of all this fascinating, so I did a little experimenting on it. I already know that the metatarsal joints in my feet (which form the balls of the feet) are delicate for me - I can't roll over from up dog to down dog, for instance, but it's more of an issue of too much dorsiflexion, and in awkward, you're in plantar flexion.

all that said... here's what my experimenting with the pose in my own body and looking at my anatomy books tells me...

1) that's a lot of weight to be put on a joint in a degree of flexion it is not ordinarily designed to support that much weight statically in. the formation of all the rest of the bones of the foot can help distribute it, but you've rotated the metatarsal heads (where they connect to the phalanges - toes) a lot, and are not using the primary load bearing surfaces. I wonder if congenital minor changes in shape that don't affect the dynamic movement of walking could affect the static nature of this pose.

2) there is little making contact with the ground, and what is making contact with the ground is highly mobile. (there are a lot of joints in the foot that can move in a lot of ways that you're putting all your weight on.) that mobility in the metatarsals and tarsals, and joints specifically meant to invert and evert your foot, means that you need to have very strong ankle muscles to support this action. the ligaments in the ankle - particularly the lateral (outside) ligaments - isn't going to hold the joint in place for you, you have to use muscular strength to do it.

3) if I'm understanding my anatomy correctly, some of the same muscles that plantarflex the ankle (the position it's in for awkward pose) also invert the foot, which - when weight bearing - would cause the ankle to fall outward (those not so strong lateral ankle ligaments come into play here). additionally, the other muscles that plantarflex the ankle (the calf muscle and soleus) are involved in flexing the knee, so they are pulling from both ends. it seems to me that, as these muscle groups attach on multiple sites, a balance in strength across even a single muscle is vital for maintaining balance across the foot where it touches the floor in this pose, so that there is no collapsing through the ankle or arches.

4) continuing up the body, the thigh muscles may be at play, making the work of the leg muscles in balancing on the foot and lifting the arches and ankles harder. if the lateral and medial portions of the quads aren't used in balance, in their job in counterbalancing the hamstrings and preventing us from sinking down into gravity, they could add torque to the knee that can transfer down to the ankle. even more directly, the sartorius itself, which flexes the knee, is an external rotator of the thigh, and would have to be counterbalanced by internal rotators.

5) still in the thigh, the different portions of the hamstrings, which are a large part of the flexion of the knee while holding the pose, connect on both of the lower leg bones, which means that an imbalance of strength in the hamstrings could also torque the thigh (then lower leg, then ankle, then foot).

6) and moving up to the pelvis, the slight flexion of the hips means that some of the muscles that can act as adductors (like the tensor fascia latae) come into play significantly, which means they have to be counterbalanced by the adductors of the thigh to prevent the knees from bowing outwards (again, having an affect all the way down to the feet).

so... other than being a fascinating and useful exercise for me... how does this help your feet not hurt so much in awkward pose? well... do you have stable arches normally? if not, you need to build up the muscular strength to do them. do you have the bone structure to support that much weight on your metatarsal joints? try to figure out if it's bone pain or some other form of pain. is the rest of your pose balanced? if you can't WELL balance the muscle actions in the first form (weight in the heels), then I wouldn't start working on bringing your ankles off the ground, and once you do, I'd work on bringing your ankles off the ground slowly. but make sure that you have balanced muscle action first.

(I'm making a big assumption here that you're not talking about something that is actually cutting off circulation - and hence when you resume standing, circulation has resumed - or a nerve issue. if you have other reasons, including past injuries, that your feet could have structural/physiologic issues, talk to your doctor as well as talking to your teacher - which I'm sure you're already going to do ;) - to see if there is something at play there that may be an issue.)
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Posted 2008-04-29 10:16 PM (#106786 - in reply to #106741)
Subject: RE: Question 3: Awkward Pose


Might be building strength. I also wonder whether you might be clenching with your feet. In the first part, the feet should be RELAXED on the floor. (They are maybe the only part of you body that CAN relax in that postition!) If you clench your arches in an attempt to keep your balance, that might give you some serious cramping.
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delania
Posted 2008-04-30 7:10 AM (#106806 - in reply to #106786)
Subject: RE: Question 3: Awkward Pose


I did some experimenting in class last night and I realized that the pain actual begins in the first posture (hands to feet), when you are bent over and pulling on your heels. The pain is not a numbness but a soreness of the muscles, particularly in my arches. I've noticed that other people in the class, particularly beginners also have a tendency to move their feet in discomfort after finishing awkward posture. I'm going to guess that my feet are just not used to the stretching and are not very strong.
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