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| The teacher knew I had injuries. I was told to keep doing it the yoga. What was I a whimp? When I tried to skip the postures that bothered it I was that I was not to skip any postures. So I had to stop going to that teacher also. I'm responding to the comment that you should tell the teacher you are injured. I think people should be careful listening to those bikram teachers. I still think he's going to sued big time some day.
Edited by designaire 2005-06-22 5:58 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | You know, I think we got the point Designaire. What do you want to do, sit here and discuss the negative aspect of Bikram and the studios? Are you looking for someone to indulge in your negativity with you?? Are you looking for Revenge??? Perhaps you should go sue him yourself, then come back and let us know what happened. So, you had a bad teacher...drop it...let it go...move on, breathe, do some yoga. Try to have a nice day,  |
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| I want the teachers to ease up and let people in the classes with injuries without making them worse or making new injuries or humilating them. Not everybody is in their 20's anymore and some injuries can become permanent. To realized that people you shouldn't be pushing through pain and forcing postures. |
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Expert Yogi
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| I get annoyed when people don't tell me about injuries, I also get annoyed when people DO tell me then insist they can do the poses anyway. I spend a lot of time and energy learning good modifications and finding ways to help students benefit from yoga without injuring themselves. I think the important distinction to make here is that the teacher was clearly the problem, not the yoga. Designaire, I hope you find a teacher that works for you so you can continue to get the benefits of yoga. |
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| I agree with both Tourist & Cyndi. It is a shame that you had bad experiences. However, there are bad teachers everywhere -- not just Bikram. I have experienced teachers who could potentially hurt their students in pretty much every studio I've gone to, not just one method.
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| It just seems like the Bikram system teaches you to push until it hurts. When I saw Bikram on 60 minutes I just thought he was being a jurk and I can see it in his teachers.I feel like I can hardly go to any of them. They all seem the same with their arrogant attitute. I've been frustrated with this for quite a few years. I'm trying to work out some injuries and I have to avoid half the Bikram teachers. Thanks for your input. Maybe it just helped to get it out there. |
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| Sounds like you should abandon the Bikram system. It obviously does not work for you. Trying to convince a whole sect of the yoga market that what they are doing is bad is going to cause you nothing but strife and mental anquish. You will never change their minds or convert them to your way of thinking. Believe me I have tried! So chalk it up to a learning experience! Do not go back and find a new practice. Sounds like a good time to move on from the tramatic event and get into other practices.
Edited by yogabrian 2005-06-22 8:47 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Maybe try Iyengar yoga?--- Those teachers would never behave the way
the folks you are describing acted. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Thanks Bay Guy, I couldn't have said it better my little Iyengar self  Of course there are probably bad Iyengar teachers out there and there are certainly some who people find too "strict" or whatever. I have heard stories.... But not every teacher is for everyone. I have known people who couldn't stand my teacher and, knowing both of them, I can see why. They simply clash and always will.
I suppose the best solution for designaire, assuming Bikram is the method of choice, is to "do a Cyndi" and set up to practice at home. Or, as someone said, find someone who teaches "hot" yoga and go there. |
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| designaire - 2005-06-22 8:26 PM
It just seems like the Bikram system teaches you to push until it hurts.
I agree with what others have said here. Move onto another style. If you're that uncomfortable with Bikram's system there's no reason to contiue. One of the great things about yoga is the great variety of styles available to you. |
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| CG: Exactly. I teach Bikram and would not hesitate to tell a student to try another type of yoga if Bikram is not a "fit".
There may be Bikram teachers who "push" you to go deeper but it is always up to you to determine whether you are ready or not. I'm not saying there aren't bad teachers, but people have to take responsibility for themselves, too. Part of yoga, IMO, is learning to trust yourself & listen to your inner voice. If your inner voice says "not today", then heed it. Even Bikram says that. I specifically remember in TT him saying that if he tells you to do something and you don't want to, ignore him and listen to yourself. Why do I remember this so well? Because my last memory of his class is him telling me, specifically, to go deeper in Utkatasana. He told me 10 times & I ignored him each time. I knew what my edge was for that day and I honored it. I did the same thing with John Friend. |
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| BG and Tourist,
Unfortunetly evenm the iyengar crowd has their bad teachers, I know of a couple of senior teachers in my area who have injured more then a few people through extemely harsh adjustments and regularlly belittle students. No style I think if safe from it. Bad teaching is bad teaching. People are human after all. |
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| I have basically given Bikram yoga up. I do mostly Ashtanga and Iyengar and sometimes Bikram once a week when nothing is bothering me. I used to do Bikram a lot, like 4 times a week and even considered the teachers training. However, my hips got stretched crooked when I did Standing separate leg stretching pose. One side got really flexible and the side didn't. I even had my head on the floor that way. I started to have pain in the back of my leg all the time then I realized I had stretched my hip totally crooked and lost my flexiblity on my left side even when I did Head to Knee with Stretching on the left side. That was over 5 years ago and now I struggle with it all the time in all yogas. I had a bunch of physical therapy for it. Sometimes I go to bikram and try to skip that posture but get a bunch of crap from teachers about skipping postures. I found one teacher I can go to at one studio. When I saw the Bikram interview on 60 minutes it got me mad all over again just listening to him and his arrogance. Thanks for listening. |
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| designaire - 2005-06-23 10:13 AM
I have basically given Bikram yoga up.
Really? Still practicing occasionally. Still talking an awful lot about it. Still holding on to what sounds like resentment and anger. What part of your Bikram Yoga experience have you actually given up?
(Sorry, feeling sassy tonight. I usually do better at biting my tongue.)
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| I've given up most of it however, I suppose the injury that never got better reminds me of it.
Edited by designaire 2005-06-24 9:48 AM
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| There's something reassuring about this Bikram thread in that you can always count on it being a great place to see the Bikram crowd showing their fangs. |
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| We wouldn't have to if others would not find the need to bash the method. It is a terrible feeling to see people discounting something that has helped me personally get my life back. I believe that everyone can find a fitness strategy and lifestyle that fits for them....whatever it happens to be but I would never trash something that someone feels personally invested in. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | tinyone - 2005-06-22 1:59 PM
We wouldn't have to if others would not find the need to bash the method. It is a terrible feeling to see people discounting something that has helped me personally get my life back. I believe that everyone can find a fitness strategy and lifestyle that fits for them....whatever it happens to be but I would never trash something that someone feels personally invested in.
Yeah, I can sympathize with that feeling. Bikram yoga has its high points and its low ones,
and the high points were very helpful to me at one time. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| tiny - I just want to ask this question - if it is ok for you to tell us the benefits of your Bikram experience, is it not also ok for someone to tell us their less positive experience? If we don't acknowledge the difficulties people have had (in any aspect or style of yoga) we are not going to be helpful to anyone.
Not only that but the board would be boring as he!! Post # 1 - "I love Bikram yoga," Post #2 "me too," Post #3 " I love Iyengar yoga," Post #4 "me to!"    (It is nearly 11 pm here...I am getting punchy...and silly...nite-nite!) |
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| I am all for opinions but sometimes they are not presented as just that. When one states that "Bikram is about pushing til it hurts", without qualifying such as opinions anywhere in the post, many readers could be misled or discouraged. And for the record, I have never told anyone on here about my specific experiences with Bikram. Forgive me for being sensitive about matters of objectivity...it is the anthropologist in me. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| It is sooo true that many people have negative experiences with Bikram teachers. They scream, they are rigid etc. etc. I have found them, in general, to be very understanding people who actually have helped me to let go of expectations that I had. Every discipline has its TYPE A's. Maybe Oakland has all the great teachers. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| It helps to take most message board posts with a grain of salt and understand that some people don't think to include "in my experience" or "it seems that" before they post their own opinions. In my experience ( ), that often doesn't help anyway as readers skim past those qualifiers, especially when it is a subject they are passionate about.
>>I have never told anyone on here about my specific experiences with Bikram<< tiny one
>>something that has helped me personally get my life back.<< tiny one
I don't mean to be picky but you can see from your own posts that it is difficult to not show our personal opinions and be completely objective all the time. And who would want that anyway? it is difficult when people come on the board to get things off their chest before we know them well but sometimes that is the way it happens. If we get all snotty and push them away, they will not be able to join the group and pariticpate more fully later on. Plus it always sounds and feels a little childish to me when someone posts the "you're so negative, we don't like that" stuff. |
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| tinyone - 2005-06-25 2:29 AM
I am all for opinions but sometimes they are not presented as just that. When one states that "Bikram is about pushing til it hurts", without qualifying such as opinions anywhere in the post, many readers could be misled or discouraged.
Actually Bikram's copyrighted dialog is quite often "about pushing til it hurts". For instance, in backbending he says "Your back should hurt like hell". In his half-moon dialog it's "Come down and push, come down and push, and push, and push." Bikram's favorite sound bite to the press is "I sell pain" and he refers to his studio as "Bikram's torture chamber." With all of that as background I think its easy to expect that a reasonable person would believe its about pushing and pain.
I love bikram yoga and have been practicing 3-5 times a week for nearly 10 years. I also practice Iyengar, Ashtanga, Baptiste, and occasionally Kundalini. However, the only board I visit is this one because it is so funny how firmly attached many Bikramites are to the idea that their way is the only way. I get a mixture of laughter and sadness when I see how criticism of that is often met with dismissive, derisive, and downright mean comments from those that appear to be the biggest Bikram supporters (yes, this means you Cyndi and ebenjen). I think you can lay all of the "blame" for this at the feet of Bikram himself. For years he has spoken negatively about other types of yoga to the students at his 9-week teacher training/indoctrination course. His term for ashtanga yoga is "hippie yoga", his term for Iyengar yoga is "furniture yoga". His "my way is the only way" message is constant so it is not surprising that many of his teachers reiterate that.
The problem is that Bikram's message has not changed in 30 years. When he was first starting in the early 70's there was far less information about yoga in the US. Today however, students can read about yoga and take classes anywhere, anytime, and in any style. With all that information, it makes anyone who says my way is the only way seem like they are either out of touch, naive, or a just a shameless self promoter. |
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| I did make it very clear that I was speaking about "me personally" in my post. I am a fan of individuals participating in any movement, technique, method or style. I am a retired dancer; I think activity is important. No one strategy got me where I am in life and I never speak in absolutes. I have just been trained in my life to always qualify all of my opinions in order to respect the feelings of others and to best give objective advice. Passion is good, I agree, it drives me in my causes. I just am always careful to claim opinions as I wouldn't want to sway anyone young or underinformed away from any potential help (no matter what method it is).
Edited by tinyone 2005-06-25 2:40 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I don't think I was being mean and malicious...Yogalicious... I have never said Bikram is the only way or whatever..I'm the last person to ever say that! Sometimes I speak bluntly and to the point..and just because I don't sugar coat my practice, does not mean that I am a mean spirited person. Life is bitter and sweet..so is Yoga. I've said this before, Yoga is like a two-edged sword. I support Bikram because it is a system that works. As for the other types of Yoga, I think their great too! Actually, for me to do an Iyengar class is like a torture chamber, because of some the alignment issues and not doing it in a warm room is uncomfortable for me. I think its wonderful that others can. It would be nice if everyone acted like *real* yogis and respected everyone's practice, which is what the bottom line is. It's also about finding your way and what works best with your anatomy. As for the original poster on this thread...I only saw someone who wanted to piss, moan and complain!
My Indian husband thinks this is crazy...his comments were that the Yogis respect each other in all the ashrams, whatever type of *yoga* they are doing. So, why is it in America there is such a problem with this??? I guess this is really what they mean by "Stillborn Yoga" in America.
Oh well, I think everyone needs to de-sensitize themselves and quit being so dam* serious about every little thing...after all we are trying to lighten ourselves, not bog ourselves down with petty BS. |
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bikram bad teachers.
