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| I was wondering about others' experiences in taking bikram. My studio has several teachers, all with different styles. One who never looks/checks alignment, one who will pull and tug you into proper alignment but without explaining and two others who I do not care for at all.
I don't mind a strict teacher or class, but sometimes it gets out of control. The last class I took made me swear I would never come back to another one of these instructor's classes. This teacher has always been inconsistent - some poses are held longer than others, sometimes the teacher will correct alignment, sometimes ignore it all together. The worst part (for me) is that this teacher treats everyone like we are children. If someone picks up a water bottle when not instructed to do so, then we all miss the water break. The poses don't start until everyone is in the pose - so sometimes I will be in pose for 30 seconds before we're told we are on the clock. This kind of behavior sets up a game in the class and we all wait around until the last minute to go into the pose. The teacher will say things like 'the clock isn't starting and it's because of these students, so if you hold a pose too long, blame them, don't blame me.'
It is very inconsistent - we are told 'listen to your body' but when we do, then we get yelled at for not having mental discipline. Ugh! I suppose now I am just venting 
The last time I took this class I left there angry and annoyed - a much different experience that I usually have after Bikram. I am much happier now that I don't attend that particular class.
What have your experiences been? |
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Veteran
Posts: 243
 
| Well, all teachers will have different styles. I have teachers I like better than the others, but at my studio they don't list which teacher is teaching which class, and even if they did, I have to fit classe in where I can, so I can't base my schedule on which teacher is teaching. I try to just let go and follow the flow of the class- hold the pose as long as the teacher says and not think in my head if it's been longer or not (although there are definitely variances- one teacher her timing always seems a bit off and another holds poses always longer on one side than the other. none of them use a watch, so how do they know?!)
I'm not sure what to say about the teacher who waits till everyone is in the position and denies water breaks! I assume she is going for discipline and the flow of everyone doing things at the same time. But it seems very simplistic- beginners are not going to be as easy getting into a pose as more advanced students. I guess if you can avoid that teacher, I would. But if you can't, I would just try to stay focused on yourself and your practice and do what is best for you in the class- ultimately you are in charge of your practice and your body! |
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| There was a teacher at my studio that I did NOT enjoy and I got so angry during some of the poses. She held too long, then had to race through to the end with almost no savasana. I fumed for a couple weeks, and I tried to avoid her.
Then I bought Bikram's cd and did the class at home (not so hot but still great). During one pose he says "Don't let anyone steal your peace. If you let them steal your peace, you're the loser." I really thought about that and realized that if I'm just focused and remain in my own head, allow anything to happen, give into the meditation and do exactly as the teacher says, and trust that I will get whatever lesson I need for the day.
If your teacher holds you longer in one side, maybe you just need that side to be worked harder. If s/he wants to wait until everyone else is in the pose, consider it a challenge and be the first one anyhow. I know my teacher does that - but I don't think she really starts the clock THAT much later, just says she does. If your teacher is using the dialogue properly they should have a good idea of the timing and rhythm.
HOWEVER, if this is really not just a mental challenge and the instructor is consistently upsetting you, this warrants a bit of a chat with the studio owner. Despite "lessons" and "challenges", you should come out of there feeling positive more often than not.
Are all your teachers do the Bikram training in LA (or now in Mexico)? I've seen a distinct difference between those who have and who haven't. |
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| he says "Don't let anyone steal your peace..." I really thought about that and realized that if I'm just focused and remain in my own head...give into the meditation and do exactly as the teacher says, and trust that I will get whatever lesson I need for the day. If your teacher holds you longer in one side, maybe you just need that side to be worked harder.
Hmm...some valuable insights here, but there's a fine line between "trusting you'll get whatever lesson you need" and allowing yourself to be brainwashed and take abuse from someone you are paying to guide you through a practice supposedly beneficial to your body.
We are all more vulnerable doing physically, mentally and emotionally challenging yoga in a hot room. That goes for first timers and people who have been practicing for years. We owe it to ourselves to be vigilant that we're safely playing with that edge between transcending our comfort zones and protecting our bodies. It's could be a good exercise in strength-building and mental focus to hold the poses a little longer than usual. The repetitiveness of Bikram's series allows for infinite variations that safely challenge us beyond complacency.
But Bikram's whole "stealing your peace" bit irritates me, how he'll publicly berate students at TT and then glibly say, "Why are you letting me steal your peace?" That's a great mantra for talking yourself out of road rage during a traffic jam, or keeping yourself from yelling at your kids. But I'm thoroughly unimpressed when the person who is supposedly imparting all this wisdom is, in the same breath, practicing a sort of verbal violence toward his pupils that is antithetical to the essence of yoga.
I get nervous when the boundaries between trusted instructor and "powertripping egomaniac" are too blurry. Discipline and focus should be taught in class; it should be stressed that students "try" not to leave the room, or "try" to sip water between postures, and imperfections in the system should be regarded with an attitude of patience, not punishment. The OP's example seems to cross the line into an abuse of power. And NOBODY knows whether or not you "need longer on one side" better than yourself. |
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| wow Libragirl! Thanks so much  - you put into words exactly what I was thinking and with much more eloquence. There is also something that has always struck me about the 'don't let me steal your peace' attitude as it can seem like you are giving free reign to an abuser and taking on the responsibility of both parties in the situation instead of just your own....and giving a free pass to someone whose behavior is just not ok... under ANY circumstances. |
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| house...thank you. I was a bit nervous stating an opinion that could be construed as anti-bikram on this forum I'm glad there's at least one person out there I didn't offend!
But it is something I feel strongly about. As someone who used to teach, I was so careful about always trying to put my students' best interests at the forefront of my intentions. That's not to say I was perfect by any means, just that I always endeavored to teach from a spirit of humility and compassion. Even in my little yoga classes that had 10 or 12 people, where I was teaching intro, or basic vinyasa, I was hyper-aware of people who seemed to really "need" the yoga (mentally, spiritually, or physically), and who, for whatever set of circumstances they found themselves in, were more open (which leads to susceptibility) to the teachings of another. Sometimes there's that pedestal effect, and when a student bestows that level of trust onto the wrong person, it can be really harmful.
Luckily, the Bikram studio in my town only employs kindhearted teachers. They vary in their adherence to the dialogue, or to their overall emphasis on "discipline" vs. "fun," but never once have I felt that they would shame someone into holding a pose for longer than they should, or punish a whole class because someone needed water. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
  
| libragirl - you still might get comments about your "negative" attitude. People seem to come out of the woodwork any time anyone makes a less than 100% supportive of Bikram statement. From now on I'll just tell them not to let the posts "steal their peace."  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Some people might view it as "stealing your peace", but, it's really not about that. It's about training your mind and how much you can deal with. It's asking you to dig deep within your soul. The yoga path is NOT a bed of roses - there is a place that is very deep within us that is covered up. It's like an un-peeled onion. When you start peeling it away, it burns.
Sooo, whatever little thing that Bikram or any other teacher is doing to you, is simply a test of your skills and abilities. You should make yourself "light" and take it with a grain of salt. Then again, its also a choice..if you don't like it, your choice is to leave and get out. You can decide on how much pain you want to endure. I try to take as much as possible, because.....when LIFE throws these things at us....sometimes it happens so swiftly we don't have too many choices. Un-expected emotional issues that come up, dealing with difficult people and so many other LIFE things can be quite intense. I do believe Yoga (I'm not just referring to Asana's) if practiced correctly, can teach us some really good skills and lesson the intensity. It's really a good thing,  |
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| You can learn a lot about yourself by how you react to people. If your always questioning or being angry with your yoga teacher it sounds like you have some issues to deal with. Having the class go your way or having the teacher accomodate your individual taste is not the goal of yoga. Different teachers have different styles. How flexible are you to accomodate all their styles/personalities?
Remember its only your ego that reacts. If you cant maintain your inner peace because you disagree with a yoga teacher you have a long way to go in understanding why you do yoga. Yoga is not an ego trip.
Remember the world is merely a mirror of your own inner state.
Edited by Ram 2008-04-07 11:34 AM
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| I so often agree with Sister Cyndi's yogic outlook, and even when I disagree I see the wisdom she exhibits. But when it comes to public yoga teachers here in the west, I disagree in that as customers, we must stand for no abuse. Additionally, a teacher offering services in a public, commercial domain needs to understand this or face the resultant financial consequences. Again, I see Cyndi's outlook as a sensible training opportunity. However, I get enough of life's crap on a daily basis that I must deal with--I will not pay for it to be heaped upon me. |
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| Bruce - 2008-04-07 11:54 AM
I so often agree with Sister Cyndi's yogic outlook, and even when I disagree I see the wisdom she exhibits. But when it comes to public yoga teachers here in the west, I disagree in that as customers, we must stand for no abuse. Additionally, a teacher offering services in a public, commercial domain needs to understand this or face the resultant financial consequences. Again, I see Cyndi's outlook as a sensible training opportunity. However, I get enough of life's crap on a daily basis that I must deal with--I will not pay for it to be heaped upon me.
It's easy to agree that one should not put up with "abuse". Howerver with the coddling victim mentality we have in our society I think anything construed as a teacher trying to impart some dicipline on a class would be viewed as "abuse". It's my opinion (here is my ego) that people on the whole are far to weak to accept someone trying to give them a little dicipline. |
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| Don't think a person wanting to learn asana is paying for a too often ill-trained and educated instructor's concept of discipline...especially a bikramite instructor. |
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| i think a lot of the examples in the OP are really not 'abuse' so much as teaching style differences. i am cool with this sort of thing, honestly. it doesn't mean i'll go back and pay for it if i do not find the differences valuable to me, but it also doesn't mean that if i want a class and that person 'happens' to be teaching (subbing for example) that i'm going to walk out.
and as a teacher, i 'get' that i'm not the teacher for everyone and that people will leave and go to other places. and, i've had people leave because i was subbing. i don't take that personally either.
as for the issue of "abuse," it is something i question quite a bit. it's not usually 'in the classroom' situations that cause this. and there is a question about what we want to or are able to 'endure.' for me, i'm learning to endure another's discomfort without having to pick it up and own it. it's been interesting. |
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| I have experienced abusive Bikram, Iyengar and other teachers. A certain percentage of the population will become abusive when given any power over others. People who do yoga are NOT less egotistical or in any way more moral, ethical or enlightened than the population at large. In fact, many people do yoga to be more self centered rather than to center their self. Yoga is a tool that we can use for self-discovery or to aggrandize our own ego. The choice is yours, but without awareness, you cannot even see the choice. |
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| jimg - 2008-04-07 4:46 PM
I have experienced abusive Bikram, Iyengar and other teachers. A certain percentage of the population will become abusive when given any power over others. People who do yoga are NOT less egotistical or in any way more moral, ethical or enlightened than the population at large. In fact, many people do yoga to be more self centered rather than to center their self. Yoga is a tool that we can use for self-discovery or to aggrandize our own ego. The choice is yours, but without awareness, you cannot even see the choice.
It brings up the point of spiritual ego. Its the transfer of ego from one mode to the another.Just because one discovers (as you point out) yoga does not suddenly make one "spiritual". It's no different then the baseball or rock star. Same big ego same arrogance. Its not until the ego is purified or transcended does one have the ability to live through the SELF (your awareness). |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| We also have to remember that we should walk away from situations that are harmful or toxic to us. Somebody quote the sutra for me, please? |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | tourist - 2008-04-07 6:47 PM
We also have to remember that we should walk away from situations that are harmful or toxic to us. Somebody quote the sutra for me, please?
Yes, that is true...BUT.....that's all I can say, |
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| Bruce - 2008-04-07 1:02 PM
Don't think a person wanting to learn asana is paying for a too often ill-trained and educated instructor's concept of discipline...especially a bikramite instructor.
yes.. thank you. asana - YES. someone else's concept of discipline - NO, THANKS. |
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| Here's my feeling. Teachers, even "Bikram certified" ones, are only human. Not all of them are going to be good at their job. it would be great if they were all stellar and knew exactly what they were doing, but there are always going to be a few floating around who go through the motions but are not effective. I am ALL about discipline and a little tough love, but if you think that a particular teacher is going beyond what is useful and just power-tripping, that's a totally valid complaint. Sounds like you already found the solution - just don't go to that teacher's class anymore!!
If an instructor really is not doing a good job teaching the asanas, this hopefully will become apparent through a drop in class attendance anyway, and then the studio owners can take a look at what's going on.
I've had very good experiences with all the teachers in my area - they are all very different from each other, BUT they all understand what they're trying to accomplish: they're trying to help people improve their lives by teaching yoga, and they have respect for all their students. There's a big difference between a strict teacher who clearly respects you and is trying to help you, and a strict teacher who's just having fun bossing people around because she saw someone else teach that way once. |
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| Sounds like you already found the solution - just don't go to that teacher's class anymore!!
True enough, but many Bikram studios (like the one where I practice) don't really have a set schedule, so you pretty much don't know who you're going to get until you show up. There are teachers to tend to teach in the mornings, others in the evenings, but those are just general trends. Thankfully, I like all the teachers at my studio...some more than others, but there's nobody who, upon showing up and seeing they were my instructor that day, I would be disappointed to get, or skittish about. But if a studio doesn't advertise a teaching schedule ahead of time, it becomes very difficult for students to "voice" who their preferences are, short of turning around and walking out when you see that teacher. Many people would not wish to take that option, since they'd be worried about building bad rapport.
In a case where you suspect a teacher is abusing his/her power, I think the only reasonable thing to do is to see about either anonymously voicing this feedback (my studio has a comment box), or seeing if you can set up a time with the studio owner. If I were the owner, I would definitely want to know that even one or two people felt this way about a teacher I was employing. Then again, the owners could perpetuate this sort of "authoritative" energy, in which case I doubt anything would be done. |
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| I haven't responded yet, as I haven't done Bikram - the closest I've come to the style is Baptise, for the somewhat heated room and the relatively set series, albeit there's still variation in that.
But from my experience hiking (a somewhat similarly stressful situation on the body on hot days when climbing elevation under load, particularly), telling people they can't have water *is* abuse. It doesn't matter that it's only a 90 minute stretch, it doesn't matter that people are supposed to hydrate before hand; in those conditions, de-hydration can come on very quickly. Ironically, one of the first things dehydration under those conditions will do is alter your ability to make decisions, so you'd be less likely to listen to your body and come out of a pose you were being berated to keep. |
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| unless someone is drinking water to avoid the practice.
i've had this situation before in heated and non-heated classes.
of course, i have to notice it as a problem first, and then from there, take care of it in a consistent and caring manner. typically, i'll say "are you drinking because you are thirsty, or are you drinking to avoid doing something else?"
more recently and related, i've noticed a lot of students fidget too, when they get to mountain pose. so, i've started to point out the fidgeting, and then i started to say "move into mountain and hold the pose without fidgeting or movement" and then i say "ok, now fidget" after they've been in mt for about 20 seconds. and then i say "ok, back to mt" so they don't fidget too much.
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| lol, I like that "now fidget". I may borrow that someday soon. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| When I see fidgeting I remind them that the pose is also named samasthiti - standing still.  |
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| Sometimes I'll encouraging rocking sideways, forward, and back then stillness.
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Teaching Styles
