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| One day I was in standing bow and I stretched too far and there was this little popping sound in the back of my leg and I fell out of the pose. Since then, my hamstring has been bothering me - more towards the upper part (sorry, I don't know what the technical names are). At first I rarely noticed it but as time went on it didn't get any better, it's getting worse. I used to be able to lock my knees in hands to feet - can't do that anymore. I used to be able to touch my forehead to my toes in pashimottanasana - now, some days I can barely go down, and when I do come close to touching my forehead to my toes, it is excruciatingly painful. I've talked to my instructor about this and she says to not fear the pain, though don't push too hard, just go to the point where I feel the pain, and be aware of it, observe it. Well, I've been doing that... but my hamstring isn't getting any better! It's been 5 weeks now. I don't really know what I should do. Any suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated! |
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| I'm of the "zero tolerance for *pain*" school, myself. if you tore (well, strained, really, because tore would be an even larger impact in your daily life, not just yoga) your hamstring, you need to *stop* stretching it so much so it can heal - every time you stretch it, you're straining (micro-tearing) it again. I'm not saying to keep it contracted in a sitting position, but actually *stretching* it will delay recovery. (my reference/sources the PT's, dr's, chiro, and yoga teachers I've worked with, my teacher trainings, and the books I've read for my studies.) |
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| I did a similar thing to my hamstring in the same spot about 6 months ago. I took about 10 days off of all exercise and spoke to one of the instructors. She said to do what I can in class and listen to my body; it will tell me what is okay and not okay. I told her I did not want to disrupt class by not doing all of the postures. She told me to stand in the back of the room and do the postures the best I could. If my injury prevented me from doing a particular posture, then don't do it; either stand (in standing set), or kneel, or savasana.
I got the benefit of the rest of my practice and my hamstring eventually healed.
I hope this helps. I know how frustrating it is. Have patience and don't listen to your ego. |
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| The last poster (a new poster!! hi!!) has given you some awesome advice. I think one of the key points is that while you are healing your injury, you cannot listen to your ego. You have to accept that at THIS moment, your postures are not going to be like they were before! Pachimottanasana, for example - you say that when you come close to touching your forehead to your toes, it is excruciating - that means you are going way too far!! Just because you can touch your head to your toes when you are uninjured does not mean you should try to make the same thing happen now... sorry... your body is just going to be different for a few more weeks.
My best guess is that you just need to baby your injury a little more and give it a chance to heal. You can keep going to class and working on other things (like your SPINE! and little things like that), but take it super easy on those forward stretches. Don't worry about "losing" your flexibility. It will come back. I have seen SO many people suffering injuries who had to let go of a lot of depth in their postures, but who ended up coming back better than ever. Injury can even be an opportunity to improve your practice in the long run - when you let go of the depth in the posture, you HAVE to focus on the form more than ever, which can give you some really good insights into how the posture works.
Take care and let us know how it goes!! Don't be scared, but don't hurt yourself either... remember that the number one purpose of the yoga is to heal and improve the body. |
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| I was told by my instructor to "take it easy" on the pulling poses, but I don't quite know what to do instead. I'll ask again today, but I found that hands to feet, standing bow pulling, standing separate leg and the final forehead to knee stretching pose are difficult.
Does anyone have any recommendations on these "pulling" poses as far as modifications go?
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| On Standing Head to Knee, and Standing Separate Leg Stretch, you can try just letting gravity do a gentle stretch for you, instead of pulling on your heels. When you do this, the thing to concentrate on (at least what has been working from me) is to hinge from the hips and try to make the back longer and flatter.
On Standing Bow, I think the only thing may be to go as far as you can until you feel a gentle stretch in your hamstring, and don't push beyond that for a while.
In the final stretch, I think concentrating on hinging from the hip and trying to flatten the back might help you some.
I'm doing all of these with less force than usual, not because of hamstring pain, but because of an aggravated sciatic nerve and some tightness in my left hip that seems to be associated with it. But I think the same adjustments would probably apply to a hamstring problem. When a problem like this comes up, it seems to me that the key difficulty is knowing your limitations, especially when the limitations can change with every class.
Duffy |
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| Well first of all, there are no "modifications" in Bikram yoga, there are just different ways of working on the posture. You'll still be doing the same 26 postures as everyone else. 
Always listen to your teacher, but here are my ideas on how to work on those 4 poses without hurting yourself...
Hands to feet: make sure your upper body is relaxed flat on your thighs to begin, and then as you lift your hips up, see if you can concentrate on the release in your lower back and get your spine to lengthen out as much as possible. Don't pull too hard - use gravity. The lengthening of the spine after the first backward bend is possibly even more important than the stretch in the hamstrings.
Standing bow: don't go too deep. Check out your FORM instead. Leg straight, not cocked off to one side? Standing knee locked? Right shoulder releasing back to get two shoulders in one line? Left shoulder touching with the chin? (Assuming this is the first side...) Etc. etc. This could be a GREAT opportunity to really improve the structure of the posture, especially in the upper body, so that once your hamstring heals and you get your depth back, it will be a better pose!
Standing separate leg: yup, relax. Let gravity do the work. Suck your stomach in and lengthen your spine. In the advanced class, this pose is done with the hands behind the back in prayer position, no pulling at all. Picture that! It is actually harder, but still good for you. And you will SO appreciate that arm strength once you get back to pulling!
Final forehead to knee: focus on the forehead to knee!! Bend your knee as much as you need to and work that compression. Suck in your stomach, bring it as far away from your thigh as possible, and round your back. Just think of it as the sequel to rabbit pose. (Or the prequel to tomorrow's standing head to knee.)
Final stretching: lock the knees, and then REALLY lock the knees. NO air between the knees and the floor. That contraction on the top of your legs is ultimately what protects your hamstrings from injury. Maybe check out your feet, too - make sure they are really flexed, and also that they are flat to the mirror, which means little toes in line with big toes - they always want to come forward. Then just focus on making your spine long and flat. Just like hands to feet, you can use your stomach to find more length in your lower back. Come forward but don't PULL - stop before it hurts, and keep working those quads like there's no tomorrow!
In general, remember that when it comes to protecting the hamstrings, your quads are your best friends! in other words... (yes... I have to say it... ) Lock The Knees!  |
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Member
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| Thanks for all the replies guys.
I've realized that for the past 5-6 weeks, I've been trying to achieve the depth I used to achieve in the poses, ignoring the injury and pushing through the pain. I used to do a lot of competitive running and I would hear so much "ignore pain, pain is weakness leaving the body, suck it up and always push your hardest" stuff along those lines. I guess I've been subconsciously applying that to my yoga practice and now I realize it's not the right way of thinking. Though my biggest mistake, was equivilizing the pain of challenging oneself and the pain of injury - while it's great to push through challenge, it can be harmful to push through injury.
So now, I'm just going to take it easy for the next week or two and really pay attention to the process of going into the poses, rather than just focusing on one specific endpoint. Here's what I focus on in the most affected poses:
hands to feet: really concentrating on my grip - forearms touching legs, elbows behind knees, no gaps
standing head to knee: I can get my head to my knee on one side. on the troublesome side, I just kick out a little without locking the kicking leg.
the one where you pull your forehead to the floor, legs apart: I take this one very slowly.
pashimottanasana - I concentrate more on my spine because right now, my hamstrings will not let me go down very far at all. |
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Expert Yogi
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| After this length of time, you may find that a good massage therapist can help break up some of the scar tissue and help your hamstring heal. |
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| I'm sorry but aren't you the same person that was touching their head to their toes last month?
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Member
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| hnia - 2008-09-11 10:43 AM
I'm sorry but aren't you the same person that was touching their head to their toes last month?
back in July, yeah. Before the injury of the hamstring.
Edited by lifeisgood 2008-09-11 11:35 AM
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| There's a post on here somewhere about someone who did the same and it resulted in a injury down the road. I hope you are seeing the relationship between pushing so far and injuries.
Massage, drugs and at least a week off. I would mentally prepare myself for a long road of recovery. It doesn't mean that you would be able to practice but you won't be touching your head to your toes for a long time. Those attachment injuries are unfair...
All the best,
hnia |
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| I'm actually a bit confuddled by dancingj's advice on "final stretch" (pachimottanasana & janu sirsasana?)
the quads are antagonists to the hamstrings. contracting the quads causes the hamstrings to stretch. yes, you can do it statically, but locking the knee puts *more* tension on the hamstring at the connection to the tibia and fibula, particularly the semimembranosus that connects to the most posterior position on the tibia. A slight bend to the knee allows the hamstrings to be under less tension (whether a bend is needed, and how much of a bend is needed, is entirely dependent on the resting length of any individual's hamstrings). The quads don't serve to "protect" the hamstring when the hamstring is not under the influence of gravity, which would be true any time the knee is locked - standing or sitting. (If the leg is weight bearing, and the knee is bending, the hamstrings and quads do work together to protect each other, depending on the direction of motion, hamstrings helping the quads if coming to standing, quads helping the hamstrings if coming to a squat.)
More generally, I stayed out of the discussion for a while, because this seems to be a Bikram/rest-of-the-yoga-world difference. (Ok, I exaggerate, but I do so out of frustration for the students in these classes.) Do Bikram teachers not get instruction on practical anatomy? Telling someone who's pulled a muscle to "not fear the pain" and to keep doing a regular practice is ... insane. If that person were a PT or fitness instructor, they'd have their license pulled. Understanding the physiology and mechanics behind what is being instructed and the basic risks that the students are under is just a part of the job, and ignoring that is incredibly disrespectful, and harmful. (Talk about ignoring ahimsa!) It's not "new" in the field of sports medicine that strained muscles should not continue to be stretched until they are healed. (Moved through a painless range of motion - preferably passively - and stretched are two very different things, and it's a teacher's job, IF their instruction has caused injury and confusion, to clarify this.) Telling someone to continue injuring themselves...? Is it any wonder I'm frustrated with what I hear coming out of Bikram yoga studios and students? (I would, otherwise, be interested in seeing what it's all about.) I'm not going to place all the blame on the teacher directly - some people don't have the opportunity in their lives to learn about this independently. But the teacher's been through a training program, and it's the responsibility of the training program to produce SAFE teachers. /sigh
(sorry for the rant, but please, to the bikram trainers - teach your teachers something about functional anatomy and likely injuries and how to deal with them in physiologically safe ways?!?)
lifeisgood - I hope your new approach bears some fruit - the idea of a massage to help with the scar tissue from repeated aggravations to the muscle over the past month and a half is probably going to be very useful. it can affect scar tissue in a way that yoga cannot. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Oh Tiffany - you have opened the box that must never be opened!  Prepare for the onslaught of "Bikram is so 'real' yoga and you people are un-yogic" flames.....  |
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| /hangshead
I don't mean to do that.
I can see the value in all kinds of yoga - even something that can be fairly different than what I would normally practice.
I was talking about this thread with my husband. There are lots of minor differences I have with Bikram yoga, some sequencing disagreements, some instruction disagreements, some alignment disagreements - but I'm no "yoga expert" to say what is clearly right/wrong about all of these things, and there's value to having these differences. I'm GLAD that there is Bikram yoga out there for students who really need that type of structure and approach to help them - mind and body.
But it's going to be hard to convince me that a teacher training that fails to cover "don't tell your students to keep stretching a strained muscle; in fact, tell them to stop stretching it until it's healed" is doing the right thing by their students.
Edited by nucleareggset 2008-09-11 7:32 PM
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| tourist - sheesh, don't underestimate us! i've been practicing bikram long enough to know that while there are tons of awesome bikram teachers, there are also plenty who don't know what the heck they are doing. i think many of those people are the ones who don't have sufficient guidance AFTER they leave training, because the training is not what is used to be - it is much less complete than it could be - so new teachers (ALL teachers!) need to really keep learning once they start teaching.
ok, hi tiffany! (tiffany is your real name?) i personally have known good bikram teachers, AMAZING teachers, and not-so-hot teachers, but i don't know any of them who would tell someone to push into the pain of an injured muscle. i totally agree with you - that is crazy talk, and goes against common sense! unfortunately - yoga teachers are people just like everyone else, and it's totally possible for people with ZERO common sense to go thru training and get certificates. bikram attracts really cool people, but also quite a few nutjobs...
as for the bit about the hamstrings and the quads in final stretch - FIRST, i am NOT a teacher, so i try to qualify everything technical i put out as "this is just my personal opinion" or "this is what i would try doing." but i learned that idea from one of my teachers who taught other types of yoga for 15 years before he became a bikram instructor. he would mainly focus on the quads in the standing separate leg stretching pose, which does go with gravity. he taught that contracting the quads in that posture would prevent the hamstrings from overstretching. you're probably right that contracting the quads in the final stretching does not effect the hamstrings in the same way. i don't quite know how that works, with gravity vs against gravity, but i figured that any chance to practice strengthening those quads would be helpful for the next day's standing postures. considering how flexible our poster is (head to toes before injury), i guessed that this could also be a nice safe way for her to work on developing her strength in the posture, instead of going for the flexibility and overstretching. if any of this sounds incorrect to you, please let me know, because i do want to teach someday and these discussions are great learning opportunities for me!! |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Oh Juliana - I was just having a bit of fun. But I will fan the flames a bit here and say that as far as the Bikram teacher training not being "what it used to be" I have been led to believe that the full training has always consisted of doing the sequence and learning the "dialog" and nothing else. And from what I have heard, all of the "good" teachers who know how to handle injuries, include modifications etc., have been trained in other styles as well. I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong on that. We have heard many, many times here about people being told to push through pain, that they were "releasing toxins," not injured etc. so this is not idle talk. It really does happen - a lot.
I also am glad that Bikram is there. I have suggested to some of my students who love heat to give it a try - not everyone, but some. And we have lots of students who came to us after a Bikram class or two because they didn't like the heat, the sequence or whatever. In my area we don't have people coming to us because they don't like the Bikram teachers as far as I know which is nice. They seem to be genuinely nice people. |
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| Defensive, me??? Just a little protective maybe... I know you're cool...
The old-school teacher training was actually really different. I'm talking about WAY back in the beginning, 10 or 15 years ago. I think the first official training was in '94 or '95, and the dialogue did not even exist yet. (Unofficially, Bikram authorized people to teacher much sooner than that, but it was basically all verbal contracts along the lines of "boss! you go show these people now!") Even tho the dialogue is such a HUGE deal now, it is a relatively new invention. Not sure when it was written but I think it was in the 2000's. I know a few teachers who went to training in the first years and it was completely different. Much smaller, for one thing - there were maybe 20 or 30 people in the first one group. No dialogue. In those trainings, the teachers were personally taught by Bikram how to read bodies, how to tell what an individual body is capable of, when to correct, when not to correct, how to adjust for injuries or handicaps... all the good stuff!! You can tell when you're taking class with an old-school teacher. They might not know the dialogue at ALL but they REALLY know their stuff. Then the empire started to grow, trainings got huge and busy, and things changed a lot. So now training is what it is - a 9 week dialogue-learning machine.
That was off-topic but I thought it might interest you!! I think it is so interesting and weird how the training has evolved... I wish I could go back and go to one of the first ones... (too bad I was like 10 at the time) |
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| Thank you for your suggestions. Although I do no welcome injury, I think that practicing yoga with physical limitations - be they temporary or permanent - helps with the mental aspect of the practice. I'm not talking about pushing myself through pain, but knowing when to back off, yet still continue, is important.
Your suggestions have been helpful. Here's what I've taken:
Hands to Feet- I still put my belly on my thighs, forehead on my shins and gently ease my legs back. I focus on rolling forward on the balls of my feet and no having so much weight in my heels. I have not been locking my legs and pulling forward as that seems to cause a burning sensation in my hamstring.
Standing Bow- thank you for the suggestion of practicing my form! I am now focused on hips square to the mirror and level to the floor, knee directly behind my hip, shoulder directly in line with my knee. I gently lower my body down and hold it, but do not push it.
Standing Separate Leg Stretching - Hands under heels, I really exaggerate my leaning forward - pretending that I'm hinged at the hips and folding my body down. I lock out my legs, but I do not pull.
For all of you out there that *don't* have this issue. I didn' know it was a hamstring until I read <a href="http://www.yogajournal.com/for_teachers/985"> this article </a> on Yoga Journal. I thought it was a glute issue because it's the upper part of the hamstring. I would advise everyone to lock out their legs and to roll forward on the foot for any forward bending postures.
Is it a good thing that I hurt my leg? It's caused me to go back to basics and focus on my foundations vs. pushing through the postures to see what I can do. This is my issue and nothing to do with the practice. |
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Member
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| Hi -- I'm going through the same kind of thing right now. I just started Bikram classes a couple of weeks ago, have had about 8 classes so far. After last night's class, I have my first case of something uncomfortable going on at the top of my left hamstring. I'm not sure if I tweaked something, pushed too far in something, or if it's just an alignment issue working itself out. When I bend forward over the left leg, I get resistance much earlier than I'm used to. Kind of a tenderness, not a sharp pain. So I wouldn't think anything would be "torn".
How can one tell whether it's an aggravated sciatic nerve or pulled/strained hamstring?
I have some kind of preexisting condition (I've never gone to a chiro about it) where if I tilt my pelvis a certain way on the left side, I feel kind of a clicking around my sacrum, hipbone area; not a painful thing, although I have been concerned about it progressing to that point... I'd guess it may stem from some unfortunate postural habits I have, like sitting on top of a foot when sitting down in chairs, slumping, etc. (btw I'm a woman, late 40s) I've had Bikram's book, 1st edition, for years, have practiced on and off over the years, on my own, no heat, usually half series, lots of cheating. Have taken some ashtanga classes in the past. There's a great studio for that style in my area, but too far to go to regularly, when I'd try to develop a home practice, it usually wasn't too long before I'd tweak something. Luckily, I finally tried out the Bikram studio that's been in my area for a few years, and IS close enough to go to regularly, which is what I plan to do.
Sorry, got off track there... my first post. Any other advice other than, back off where needed, continue practicing?
-Edie |
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| hamsandwich - your last post makes me happy. obviously i'm not happy that you are in PAIN, but i like how you learning from it...
edie - hello, welcome to the forum!! cool to have you with us! now i'm not an expert by any means, but i think that a little bit of tightness or soreness can be a totally normal part of the process, especially during your first month of classes! it would be a little bit weird if you had just started going to classes and DIDN'T feel any changes in your body. my personal rule of thumb is that I don't really "worry" about things like that unless they persist for a few days, and then i try to trace them back to something specific in my practice. with more experience i think you start to figure out exactly how the different postures affect your different muscles, and then you can use the postures to target the kinks in different body parts.
mmm... sorry that this is a really generic kind of reply... that's the best i can do since i really don't know your body or your practice. but i think you already SAID it - don't do anything that gets you into pain (the whole point of the yoga is to get you OUT of pain) and keep up with your practice! definitely will be good for your alignment and your posture.  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| edie - it could just be your sacro-illiac joint clicking in and out of place. Mine has done that for years. The backbending poses you do in Bikram where you lift up from the floor can be very helpful for strengthening that area. Of course, I could be way off here as I don't know you and can't see you. But my sense is that if it doesn't cause pain, you should be fine. |
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| That sounds like a good guess, that'd be one of my first guesses also. I've usually had some clicking, popping, going on, though not painful, down in that low back, hip area, when I flex or twist down in the hip/pelvis area. It seems to happen more in the evening than in the morning. Maybe when things are less compressed, from sleeping all night, there's more space there, less clicking. Although, now that I've been doing this yoga for a couple of weeks, it seems like there's more of that going on, at any time. Things loosening up, I guess.
But I was also curious about the other question -- which stemmed from Duffy's post above, I'm not sure how to tell if something is a sciatic nerve issue, or hamstring issue. |
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| Some things are pretty clear indicators of sciatic issues: Numbness for no obvious reason in the lower legs or maybe even the feet. Shooting pains stemming from the hip/lower back going down the leg. Pain while just sitting, doing nothing to the muscle or joint itself. And the pain starts (at least for me) deep in the hip, right at the sacroiliac.
With high hamstring pain, I think you might get some of the sitting pain, but I don't tend to have pain from a pulled muscle when the muscle is resting. The first two symptoms should not be an issue at all.
Some people who know more about anatomy than me should be able to speak more clearly on this, but I hope this helps.
Duffy |
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| Don't know if this will help or confuse more, but... Last winter, my right hamstring wasn't stretching right, meaning I didn't feel the belly of the muscle lengthen when I'd be folding over my leg in parsvottanasana, for example. Instead, I felt a pulling sensation at the very top of the muscle where it attached to the sitbone, so I knew it was an injury in the making. Plus, I had pulled that hamstring several years ago, so I knew what that felt like.
Fast forward two months, I'm working strength and proper alignment very diligently in that leg, and the muscle is beginning to respond. Yet... now when I sit in the car driving, I start having pains from that very same right sit bone radiate out to the hip, down my thigh, across the top of the knee, even down my shin at times. Several weeks of this blasted discomfort, and I finally go see a orthopedist who tells me I've got sciatica. My hamstring issue, however, had healed.
So what to do? The following week, I happen to attend a yoga therapeutics workshop for teachers, specifically for the lower body. In that workshop I learn an manual adjustment which can be self-performed, specifically for hamstring issues, AND THAT HEALS MY SCIATICA. What is it? Basically the same strength and alignment principles I was practicing previously which "healed" the hamstring pull, but is much more effective since you literally grab the meat of the muscle and put it where it's supposed to be.
So yeah, ever since that workshop, no pain AT ALL while sitting.
So is it sciatica? Is is a hamstring issue? Answer is probably YES to both.
Oh, the adjustment pose? Ardha hanumanasana. We heal the hamstrings by working the hamstrings, that's what the teacher taught us. Amazing.
Good luck. |
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hamstring bothering me
