|
|
| Howdy, hoping someone can provide some insight into preventing knee issues:
I used to practice Vinyasa yoga, but my IT band got really tight and my knees started bugging me when I bike (my other passion), so for that and many other reasons I stopped Vinyasa altogether... I've been practicing Bikram now for almost 3 months and LOVE it, but recently I have started feeling those same twinges in my knees.
Tree and spine twist are the ones that really get me, but I have a hard time bending my knee in sitting head to knee pose as well (been sticking my foot into my thigh in tree helps, as does keeping my leg straight in the other two).
Could this be my IT band again? I've been taking great care to put equal pressure on both sides of my feet during the balance series, but I suspect that the problem might be coming from there. Am I hyperextending my knees? I was really paranoid about that when I first started, but none of my instructors have pointed it out to me recently. Or maybe it was from overly stretchy ankles in tree done the way Bikram intended, or somehow tweaking my knees in Eagle pose? All of the above have been suggested to me...
Are there any kinds of IT band stretches, or other possible solutions I ought to try on for size? Should I take up rolling on my physical therapy roll (approx 6" in diameter) again? I'm going easy any time I feel anything out-of-the-ordinary, but I'd like to be able to bring my foot back up to my hip socket so I can get back to tree/toe stands/spine twist, etc. This time I have no intention of walking (or biking) away from my practice altogether, as it's the highlight of my days... but I also don't want to do myself any permanent damage. Thanks for any insights! |
|
| |
|
| Hope somebody can pass on some insight Elizabeth. I've had patella problems in the past from years of jogging. I quit that last August when I started Bikram and haven't had any recurrence of the pains. That's about as close as I can come to your situation.
Used to bike when I lived in Europe--had a lovely Motobecane with a front tire that would explode regularly leaving me in a heap on the side of the road--sold it and bout a Harley--try that--VERY easy on the knees  |
|
| |
|
| I'm sure Christine will have more to say about this (she's really good!) but I will say this: If you have knee problems, past or present, you should not be attempting toe stand. I know of some students who have had knee problems and once they backed off toe stand, seemed to be OK.
If your weight distribution on your feet is OK (and maybe double check to make sure you're not overcompensating by rolling too much inward), check your foot alignment in the standing poses. The feet should be straight (second toe pointing straight ahead) and stay straight. In Utkatasana, or Awkward pose, don't worry so much about depth as you do form -- make sure your feet and your knees are not going outward or inward. You should not feel any pain in the knees during Awkward; if you do, come up a little. Garurasana (Eagle) should actually help stretch the IT band but it can be uncomfortable if you're having problems from the other poses.
As far as hyperextending the knee, when you're locking your knee think of contracting the quadricep muscle & lifting the kneecap rather than pushing the knee back. If you've had issues with hyperextension in the past, you'll need to be especially mindful of this during the the standing poses and also the final seated leg stretches. For example, when they say pull on your toes until your heel comes up off the floor, ah, maybe not so much? The leg should not bow.
For Tree, Janusirasana, & Spine Twisting, keep modifying the foot position until your knees improve.
I would say, yes, do your IT band stretches, maybe use a tennis ball for possible trigger points along the band as well. Also, a good massage therapist may be able to work on those a little for you. IT band stretches can be found on the web and I believe Yoga Journal may be of some assistance as well.
Be kind to yourself. Bikram says, "You can **** with the gods, but don't **** with your knees!" He's so eloquent . . .  |
|
| |
|
| Thanks for the ideas... I'm not even close to straightening my leg on the floor stretches, so it's certainly not that! And I've got all the instructors at my studio paying close attention to anything I might be doing that could be exacerbating my knee pain, and they all say I'm doing the poses exactly as they're supposed to be done. So I don't think I'm out of alignment with my feet or during awkward either. It's something about being type A, especially a hurting one... I'm even more anal about the poses now than I was before! And I'm not going near toe stands anymore, much fun as I was having. Nope nope nope.
I was actually cruising around the web looking for IT band stretches before I found yoga.com last night, so I'm well-armed (er, legged?) there. Great Bikram quote! Thanks again. |
|
| |
|
| Here's another Bikran quote: "Straighten that $*&^$%& knee!" (True) I can't do it either AND here's the note I sent Bikram today:
Dear Yogi Bikram,
>
>I hate to bother you with this but I've asked my sympathetic outstanding
>female Bikram teachers here in San Antonio, TX, posted on Yoga web bulletin
>boards, and talked to other male students but am not getting a fix.
>Basically, it's my genitals getting in the way and hurting during eagle,
>cobra, floor bow and full locust.
>
>Initially it wan't bad because I couldn't due many of the asanas well but
>I've been practicing for nearly 7 months now 3-4 times per week and as I've
>progressed this has become more of a problem. I've tried many varieties of
>shorts and supporters to no avail. It is often so uncomfortable that waves
>of nausea set in and I have to leave the room and I'm sore for hours after.
>
>I know it's kind of funny but I'm getting discouraged--how the heck do you
>get around this?
>
>Respectfully,
>R. Bruce McKinney
Bikes2Yoga - 2004-03-01 5:37 PM
Thanks for the ideas... I'm not even close to straightening my leg on the floor stretches, so it's certainly not that! And I've got all the instructors at my studio paying close attention to anything I might be doing that could be exacerbating my knee pain, and they all say I'm doing the poses exactly as they're supposed to be done. So I don't think I'm out of alignment with my feet or during awkward either. It's something about being type A, especially a hurting one... I'm even more anal about the poses now than I was before! And I'm not going near toe stands anymore, much fun as I was having. Nope nope nope.
I was actually cruising around the web looking for IT band stretches before I found yoga.com last night, so I'm well-armed (er, legged?) there. Great Bikram quote! Thanks again. |
|
| |
|
| I'm not certain why you think it's standing poses tightening an ITB band. Biking also works the satorius muscle (inside of the knee) which crosses over to attach at the greater torchanter, which might mimic ITB to you, but it has extremely little to do with yoga.
Try this:
Recline on the floor, feet pressing into the baseboard.
Flex both feet strongly.
Put your right hand under your lower back. Feel the curve? Keep it. That means you might not bring the other (right) leg straight up, but that's OK.
Now lift the right leg up (keeping the curve) and put a belt round the ball of the right foot, holding it in the left hand. Flex the again.
Keeping your right shoulder as close to the ground as you can and pushing the left foot into the basboard in that flexed position, bring the right foot across your body to let it fall over to the left.
Keep your shin parallel to the floor, flex your feet. Now turn your foot in the hip socket to make the toes turn as much as you can towards the ceiling. (The left/baseboard foot should still be extremely active, leg straight, foot pressing into the baseboard, toes still pointing up.) Turning your right toe up elongates the right side and gives you a better outward spirial.
Stick your butt out to reestablish the now-lost lumbar curve. Draw your abs in and up. Gently lift the right foot up towards your left ear, foot still actively flexed. Push out through the heel.
Are you breathing?
Lift the foot back up to the center, pull it in a tiny bit to release the muscles in the groin and lower the foot down. Rest. One side of your body might feel longer than the other now.
This is one of the most intense ITB stretches you can do. Since you're tight, this shouldn't be done with long holdings, but rather repeated, shorter ones to prevent your muscles from clenching. Go in, in/exhale 5, even breaths and come out.
If it's your ITB, this will be an extreme screamer.
I think, though, that you are clenching your toes and ankles. Try lifting your toes in standing poses and putting a little more weight on the ball of your big toe. This forces you to 1) engage your leg muscles, 2) put a miniscule bend into the knee to allieviate hyperextension, and 3) uses your leg muscles more wisely.
Pain in the knee usually stems from using the feet improperly. It might translate into the opposite hip, which in turn will translate into the opposite shoulder. I'm really wondering if your satorious is overdeveloped from biking (type A issue), which might be pulling your patella over. This would start to feel painful when you actually stretch the ITB and it starts trying to pull the patella back where it belongs. Anything going on in the hips or lower back?
Christine |
|
| |
|
| Hi Christine,
thanks for your thorough reply. You said "I'm not certain why you think it's standing poses tightening an ITB band. Biking also works the satorius muscle (inside of the knee) which crosses over to attach at the greater torchanter, which might mimic ITB to you, but it has extremely little to do with yoga."
Really I have no idea what's going on, not being a PT and not knowing the names of all the bits and pieces involved (hence my reliance on online discussion boards ). All I know is that when I was practicing Vinyasa regularly, I had bad enough problems with my knee (only when I got on my bike after practicing a while) that I did go to a PT, and the verdict was tight IT band... lots of stretches to do, and the roller. When I was biking a whole lot, and no yoga at all, I never had knee problems. It's only since I started practicing yoga that there have been knee issues, which I take to either mean that I was never stretchy enough to know I had knee problems before, or that it's the way I'm practicing yoga that's giving me the problems.
For the last three months, I have been doing a lot of sitting on my office chair, hardly any biking at all except for 10 minutes to and from class every day, and Bikram class every other or every day. So it could be something completely different than whatever I had before; I have no clue at all. Just some pains in the middle of my knee (closer to , especially when I do those things I outlined in my first post in this thread. I'm afraid to even go on a long bike ride!
I tried your stretch; I'm feeling it mostly in the area right below my knee, on the outside, not above my knee, and I can hardly turn my toes toward the ceiling at all. Not sure what this means... doing it wrong, it's not my IT band, I'm not really human but some sort of alien ... ???  When I do the stretch pictured on this site: http://www.drbackman.com/it-band-stretch.htm it feels AMAZING, and like I'm really hitting something good. How would I be able to tell if it's a sartorius issue? I have no idea how to check.
As for feet, I can't see how we can have a good discussion about it without resorting to web cams (besides, I don't have one). I was definitely told that part of my IT band issue back in the day was due to super flexible ankles. As I said, I'm really very conscious about how I'm weighting my feet, and our instructors often have us picking up our toes to check, and I've got lots of weight in the front ball (I was being so anal about that for a while that I strained my hamstring and realized I'd better back off a bit, duh).
Stuff going on in the hips and lower back? Like what? I have much less flexibility in my lower back than most, due I think to some childhood injury... nothing in my hips that I know about, but I haven't been thinking about it either.
Thanks for your ideas, and don't feel compelled to keep responding if it seems like this is way beyond the scope of something to cover in an online discussion! I realize that at some point I'm going to have to suck it up and see a professional in person, but I'm so broke the idea of getting the bill makes me shudder... |
|
| |
Tight IT band-->Knee issues?
