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| OK Yoginis--I'm leaving for practice now and am running all the guidance discussed today through my little mind--ready to apply it in about an hour and will report back. |
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| Oh YogaDancer,
I'm one of those people who have lower back problems. If I don't squeeze my butt during camel, I get a crick in my back (ouch!) Should I really not squeeze? |
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| Lordy--I'm quoting myself now! Well practice was the WORST ever! I was working so hard trying to remember what to do and trying to get the bod to do I fell over too many times. Teacher Carolasked what was up--I told her I'm trying to learn how to be better and gave her the details of talking to ya'll. She tried to hel me into some of the asanas to no avail--poor thing--doing half tortise (poorly) and she's standing on my back--STILL no forhead to the floor (she only weighs 100lbs.). Nuts!
Bruce - 2004-03-17 3:21 PM
OK Yoginis--I'm leaving for practice now and am running all the guidance discussed today through my little mind--ready to apply it in about an hour and will report back. |
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| Tibard, tuck your tailbone down instead. Pull in your tummy to do that, instead.
It takes practice but it will work.
Give 'er a try!
Christine |
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| Christine --
Just thought I'd let you know -- I've heard very senior Bikram instructors emphasize relaxing the belly in backward bending in order to be able to breathe. I'm not sure where that comes from as I never heard Bikram say it. I think this is an example of why he is so adamant about sticking to the dialogue. |
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| RE: belly in back bending
you can't pull the belly in while back bending, why would you want to?
back bending is about opening the front of the body-
you have to relax the belly in back bending.
this is probably why these "very senior teachers" are saying it.
bikram isn't saying it because he might be busy reminding you of his
'atom bomb' carrying Speedo.
there is so much more than the 'dialogue'-
if you never get out of it and study other yoga theories you are shorting yourself.
even reading about 'the sacred 26' in any other books besides bikram's can be very beneficial to students and teachers of bikram yoga alike.
blesings.
dee
My Cats' Mom - 2004-03-20 7:55 AM
Christine --
Just thought I'd let you know -- I've heard very senior Bikram instructors emphasize relaxing the belly in backward bending in order to be able to breathe. I'm not sure where that comes from as I never heard Bikram say it. I think this is an example of why he is so adamant about sticking to the dialogue. |
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| hi-
Christine we disagree about this- for a couple of reasons.
i think there is definitely a need for squeezing in yoga practice.
muscles are protaganistic and antagonistic- the 'work' of one relaxes the other. buttocks and belly are the example i speak of here in camel.
bikram yoga is basic isometric exercise.
80% these bikramites are beginners to yoga. most of them come with little or no body awareness. trying to get them into their little toe while in this camel posture at this time in the class seems a little far-fetched. getting past vertigo is step one for most.
i have also found most people sink deeply into their shoulders and hips in camel. i am a strong believer that this buttock security supporting the usually weak low back and the weaker abs allows the student to lift their chest (there i go with the chest lifting again) and access the elusive middle back.
re: squeezing and blocking energy
these locks/blocks to energy are a classic way to manipulate subtle energy...
we use bhandas/locks to concentrate prana into various chakras.
squeezing is good!
i'm a believer!
dee |
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| My personal experience with squeezing the buttocks (ah, me squeezing my own isometrically, that is  ) is that too much squeezing puts too much pressure on the SI joint. This is not something I decided on my own -- it was discussed in a Yoga Journal article a year or so ago. Students of mine (and another instructor) who have been practicing Bikram and are experiencing lower back pain have noticed a drop in the pain when they unclench that butt a little. Clenching the glutes, I've noticed, has a tendency to cause the knees to come apart and the thighs to rotate out.
Maybe we're all talking about a different type of squeezing?
Namaste |
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| LOL on the Speedo comment, Darla.
Just for the record, I do practice and study other types of yoga and do go outside of the dialogue. At the same time, I remember getting glimpses of Bikram's genius at training and believe that sometimes, there are reasons he does not say one thing or another. |
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| We'll have to agree to disagree on the butt squeezing, Darla. I and most every other tradition will, that is. Squeezing is a fitness world thing.
Bandhas, as in the muladara chakra's bandha, is the perineum and no where near accessed by squeezing the butt. It does biomechanically jam up the tailbone, whether you choose to think so. It's one of the reasons the legs in backbends do an inner rotation or spiral, which is to make room for the tailbone to move between the pelvic bones.
As far as squeezing the tummy in any backbend? I agree. It's rather counter productive and counter intuitive. The abs want to be long and lean. Again, unclenching the butt cheeks gives the pelvis and tailbone room to move. Lifting the chest in a backbend, no matter which way you're facing, is really important for opening the shoulders, too.
Christine
Who just came from a class focusing totally on Backbends. My nemisis.
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YIKES!!! SPIRALS?
this explains a great deal. yes, the anusara theories are quite different than bikrams.
we offer anusara at my studio and the teacher is amazing. he's one of the more popular ones we have... but i confess spirals and loops in anusara leave me as frustrated as algebra! my anusara knowledge is Teeny Tiny- so you got me there.
seriously- i know butt squeezing is not any sort of bhanda- i was simply matching them up as ways to hold energy. and commenting that holding energy is desirable in some situations.
Blessings!
Dee |
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| "Well, lemme tell 'ya," she said, hand on hip, waving finger in the air. "Clenching the butt isn't holding energy, it's putting muscles into a state of tension. There is no balancing action in that, now is there? Hmmmmm....? We don't want that, now do we? Hmmmmm?"
Anyway, Spiral is Anusara and Rotation is Iyengar. Different language for the same thing. "Take the inner, upper thighs back" is an Ashtanga teacher with a background in both. so 'ya see... .
The rotations aren't that difficult if you just stop and decide you're learning something like, Oh, say, French? It's a totally different way to use the body. It lines you up anatomically so you actually move more freely, vs. clenching and pushing through something. Just the little you've written here tells me this is totally a mental block on your part, not a lack of ability or visualization.
Ironically, if you do that inner thigh thing, lift the side body, and go back from the upper spine (rhomboid area), keeping your chin on your chest until THE last second? (Anusara "skull loop) you'll find yourself sliding into the pose.
For all of you to try:
Kneel, facing the wall close enough that your thighs are against it. Now do Ustrasana. Don't let your thighs leave the wall and naturally in this position you cannot push your hips forward.
Whole 'nother can of worms! 
Christine |
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| OK - regarding the stomach thing.
When I go to do a back bend, I put my hips in dog tilt, getting hips over knees. Then I tuck my tailbone down ever so slightly. Then I fill out my chest & back and start to lift the chest before bending backward. The combination of these actions causes my stomach to come in some, not relax.
Comments?
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| Confusion:
Please look at Dog tilt here, (Step II) and here and tell me what you're talking about?
It sounds like you're dropping back into a gymnastics (or Ashtanga) style drop-back, but the term "dog tilt" doesn't fit. Not even in Bikram. Can you find a picture of what you mean, so I can understand what you're talking about better? I think it's a question of languaging.
Christine
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| Oh - I see some confusion here.
I said to draw in the tummy to tuck the tailbone. That action done gently elongates the spine a little and fills out the lower back, preventing the vertebrae from squinching.
Pulling in the stomach, as in sucking it in, or holding it tightly? No. If you just tuck your tailbone, you'll find the complimentary action there is an elongation of the abs, albeit gentle. So drawing the abs in and up softly efore backending can make a huge difference.
Still, squeezing the butt gives the tailbone no place to go and will cause the lower back to crunch, sometimes painfully. Sometimes it's only after you come out that you feel the ache.
The Anusara feeling is that when you backbend, if done correctly, will not demand you counter stretch immediately after. You should feel simply as though you'd bent down forward and up, although it was actually backwards. I don't know many who feel this way, and I'm not one of them. But that is the idea and I think it explains how one should aim to do a backbend gently.
Christine |
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| Sorry -
By "dog tilt" I just mean to lift the hips a little to get some curve in the lower back. When I stand, I have a tendency to push my hips a little forward of my knees and turn my feet out. So, I'm always bringing the feet back together and pushing my hips back a little, into what I call "dog tilt".
I don't pull the belly in tightly or suck it in, it just draws in from the other actions, I think. |
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| You know what? I am totally done with bikram. Done. I'm so frustrated. This time it was "dandayamana-Janushirasana" that got me. I think I'll just practice some other kind of yoga and come back to bikram in a year or so. But there are a few poses that I will never try again.
Vero |
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| vero - 2004-03-18 8:42 PM
You know what? I am totally done with bikram. Done. I'm so frustrated. This time it was "dandayamana-Janushirasana" that got me. I think I'll just practice some other kind of yoga and come back to bikram in a year or so. But there are a few poses that I will never try again.
Vero
Vero
Tell us what happened, why have you forsaken Bikram??
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| Woo hoo I've been there and especially on dandayamana-janushirasana; usually just stand there with a bent leg. When I try to straighten the other, nothing happens, leg won't go out cause my arms are too short and can't bend forward enough to get 'em longer.So I consider myself a success just being able to stand still on one leg for the four tries.
vero - 2004-03-18 7:42 PM
You know what? I am totally done with bikram. Done. I'm so frustrated. This time it was "dandayamana-Janushirasana" that got me. I think I'll just practice some other kind of yoga and come back to bikram in a year or so. But there are a few poses that I will never try again.
Vero |
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| People don't get that the standing leg is the most important element. It's the foundation. And not "like concrete" but strongly engaged, toes lifted if possible, without hyperextending the knee. Once your foundation is set, the rest will come. I swear!
Vero? I'm glad you're not giving up yoga, just looking to try something is. A pose is a pose is a pose. It's what we do with it that counts. When our attitude and frustration reject it? Time to try something else and go at it differently.
I won't be around today. Off to a WONDERFUL teacher training weekend with Betsey Downing. You guys have a great day and strong practices!
Christine |
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| Enjoy Christine! (Oh no...she's left us alone for the weekend..let's talk about her now...) |
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| C'mon Vero - tell us more.  |
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| Well, remember my pulled hammstring? It turns out that was kind of a blessing in disguise. Once that was healed I was able to straighten my leg and, POW!! my back kind of poped and I've been out of commision for a week. Feeling much better now, but no more "dandayamana-Janushirasana" for me. I feel better about it now that I vented 
Vero |
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| Vero - sorry to hear of your pains. Try to take it slow and easy. Be a tortoise like me - slow but sure and you will improve over time. Hang in there and none of this  |
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| Ooooooooo...I understand why you're leaving Bikram, I'm so sorry about your injury. Please check in with us from time to time to let us know how you're healing. Be well.... |
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Still sore after Bikram
