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Questions about Ashtanga???
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YogaGuy
Posted 2004-11-15 1:01 PM (#12226)
Subject: Questions about Ashtanga???


How many series are there?

Who created these series? Was it Sri K Pattabhi Jois? Did he used to practice all of them?

Can anybody actually do all these series? Besides Sharath?

This was briefly touched on in Ashtanga NY (a great documentary). However, I was wondering if there were any books or videos that showed all the series. Most only cover the primary. There are a couple videos of second and third series, but after that the information dwindles.

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Bay Guy
Posted 2004-11-15 1:19 PM (#12228 - in reply to #12226)
Subject: RE: Questions about Ashtanga???



Expert Yogi

Posts: 2479
2000100100100100252525
Location: A Blue State		There are currently six series: primary, second, third..., sixth. However, before
1989, there were only four: primary, second, Advanced A, and Advanced B. The
A and B series were split in half at that time, resulting in six series.
This I learned directly from David Williams, who learned the four original series
from Jois in the early 1970's.

There is a video produced by David Swenson that shows the ORIGINAL four
series exactly as Williams learned them (and taught them to Swenson). I haven't
seen this video, but Williams told me that was the best way to learn the
whole Ashtanga system.

There's a book by Matthew Sweeney (recommended to me by our Christine) which
has today's version of the first four series (viz, doesn't include Advanced B...Williams
confirms that.)

There's also a listing of the names of the advanced A & B asanas in an appendix
to "The Yoga Tradiation of Mysore Palace", but it isn't that helpful since there are
no pictures to go with the names.
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YogaGuy
Posted 2004-11-15 2:46 PM (#12233 - in reply to #12228)
Subject: RE: Questions about Ashtanga???


Bay Guy - 2004-11-15 1:19 PM

There are currently six series: primary, second, third..., sixth. However, before
1989, there were only four: primary, second, Advanced A, and Advanced B. The
A and B series were split in half at that time, resulting in six series.
This I learned directly from David Williams, who learned the four original series
from Jois in the early 1970's.




Thanks, but...

Um, I am still a little lost. I have David Swenson's Primary, Secondary and Third Series DVDs. I have seen the Advanced A & B series DVD and will get that at some point. That's 5.

Is the first half of the Advanced A, what is now called the Third series? Where did that come from?

Where do you get 6?

I'll look for that book. Who decided to split up the series and why?
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Bay Guy
Posted 2004-11-15 3:03 PM (#12235 - in reply to #12233)
Subject: RE: Questions about Ashtanga???



Expert Yogi

Posts: 2479
2000100100100100252525
Location: A Blue State
It's like this:

Primary & Secondary = Primary and Secondary
Advanced A (pre 89) = Third and Fourth series (now)
Advanced B (pre 89) = Fifth and Sixth series (now)

Was 4 series ===> Is 6 series
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YogaGuy
Posted 2004-11-15 4:35 PM (#12242 - in reply to #12226)
Subject: RE: Questions about Ashtanga???


Thanks

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YogaGuy
Posted 2004-11-15 6:12 PM (#12244 - in reply to #12226)
Subject: RE: Questions about Ashtanga???


Another question:

In the documentary Ashtanga NY. They said that Sharath is the only one that is able to approach doing all 6 series. That seems like a bit of a stretch. If Matthew Sweeney has a book demonstrating all the photos and Swenson and Freeman and a lot of others all do advanced A & B series, then Sharath is not the only living person that can do all the ashtanga series, correct?

Or am I missing something...again?

Like I said before I had only counted 5 series, and was sort of mystified by this idea that there was another (6th) series out there that only one person in the world can do. Glad to know that that is not necessarily the case. Started wondering if there was a big yoga conspiracy.





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Bay Guy
Posted 2004-11-15 7:53 PM (#12249 - in reply to #12244)
Subject: RE: Questions about Ashtanga???



Expert Yogi

Posts: 2479
2000100100100100252525
Location: A Blue State		I'm not so sure about that claim. David Williams was the only one
practicing all six series at one point, but he doesn't do the whole lot
anymore. I don't know about Matthew Sweeney's full practice, although
he has been photographed in the first four series. I haven't heard about
Freeman's practice, although the photos of him in the Yoga Journal's
Coffee Table Book suggest that he'd be capable of all six, and I do
know that Swenson used to do all six (don't know about now).

I'm sure that other yogis can do all the poses in the six series, but I
don't know whether they do it as Ashtanga yoga. For that matter, you
don't have to be a brand-name yogi to be doing all that yoga. There
are probably people we never heard of who do all six series.
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itchytummy
Posted 2004-11-16 1:59 AM (#12270 - in reply to #12249)
Subject: RE: Questions about Ashtanga???


Whatever the case, I've seen pictures of Sharath doing postures from the 6th series and it's pretty amazing. Some of the poses he does I haven't seen before or I don't even begin to know what to call. So far, from the few pictures that I've seen, I think he can put Cirque du Soleil performers to shame.
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YogaGuy
Posted 2004-11-16 12:27 PM (#12285 - in reply to #12249)
Subject: RE: Questions about Ashtanga???


Bay Guy - 2004-11-15 7:53 PM

I'm not so sure about that claim. David Williams was the only one
practicing all six series at one point, but he doesn't do the whole lot
anymore. I don't know about Matthew Sweeney's full practice, although
he has been photographed in the first four series. I haven't heard about
Freeman's practice, although the photos of him in the Yoga Journal's
Coffee Table Book suggest that he'd be capable of all six, and I do
know that Swenson used to do all six (don't know about now).

I'm sure that other yogis can do all the poses in the six series, but I
don't know whether they do it as Ashtanga yoga. For that matter, you
don't have to be a brand-name yogi to be doing all that yoga. There
are probably people we never heard of who do all six series.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I thought the claim was a little dubious. Seems more realistic that there are at least a few people out there that can do all 6 series.

And there are certainly people both famous and obscure that can do all or many of those poses whether or not they practice ashtanga. That's something I always assumed anyway, since I've seen Dharma Mittra and others that just blow my mind.

Thanks again for all the info.
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kittikat
Posted 2004-12-05 10:09 AM (#13221 - in reply to #12226)
Subject: RE: Questions about Ashtanga???

YogaGuy - 2004-11-15 1:01 PM



Who created these series? Was it Sri K Pattabhi Jois? Did he used to practice all of them?



Read a really interesting article about who started the Astanga series in youga journal. Can't remember all of it, but I think it was aimed at athletic folk who wouldn't be interested in a steady approach to yoga. It lured them in with incredible looking postures,and then tuned them into yoga philosophy without them realising it.

Much the same as what happened with me then!

Kat
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Belandrew
Posted 2004-12-07 6:17 PM (#13331 - in reply to #12226)
Subject: RE: Questions about Ashtanga??


Supposedly David Swenson described them as, "First series, very important. Second series, somewhat important. Third series, only for demonstration."

That agrees with most things I've experienced. The parts that are considered fundamentals are the parts that most affect your ability. That's why they're taught first and practiced forever. Of course, the later ones are still darn cool looking
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Bay Guy
Posted 2004-12-07 6:50 PM (#13340 - in reply to #13331)
Subject: RE: Questions about Ashtanga??



Expert Yogi

Posts: 2479
2000100100100100252525
Location: A Blue State		Weeeeellllll.... The third series is the one that starts the serious arm balances,
by which I mean the ones you get into from Sirsasana II (tripod headstand).
It also has more of the deep backbends and the more fun parts of the
Eka Pada Sirsasana cyle (one leg behind the head cycle). It's also got stuff like
Vasistasana and Viswamitrasana that fit really well into a vinyasa practice.

I think that 3rd series postures are actually important, at least if you have gotten
to the point that second series poses aren't that demanding for you (make an
exception for Scorpion, which is a legitimate "deep back bend", and for Dwi Pada
Sirsasana, since it challenges most people).
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YogaDancer
Posted 2004-12-08 9:52 AM (#13373 - in reply to #13340)
Subject: RE: Questions about Ashtanga??


I think if you take a look at the individual asana, vs. those linked and named "xx Series" you'll find there are many yogin out there practicing these asana. However, linking them in the way Ashtanga does, with the vinyasa system? Most yogin require more than the breaths alloted to get in and out of these asana. And in my experience (watching, that is), the more advanced one becomes in the series, the more breaths taken. It becomes a question of regularity and balance. Why hurry?

As for what's important and what's demonstration? I think that's rather irrelevent. Although, you could keep in mind that many ancient texts dictate what the Sivanandans practice: that there are Twelve Major Asana. What does that make everything else?

C.
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