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| Here's a link to an asana gallery that has some wonderful photos that I think many people in these forums would enjoy.
http://yoga108.com/foto-eng.htm
Hope you find them as inspiring and beautiful as I do.  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
  
Location: A Blue State |
Hi ---
I think that these are outtakes from Andrey Sidersky's group in Ukraine.
There's more here.
http://www.freediveyogaphoto.com/ |
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| Wow! Itchy, those are so awesome! I am in awe with how flexible these people are. What an inspiration. |
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| i love practicing in nature and these photos really reminded me of that. i may have to do some outdoor yoga this weekend!!!
thanks for the inspiration! |
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| Those are amazing photos. Thanks for the link, ItchyT. Figures they're Russian; do they put something in the water over there or what? I suppose some people are natural-born athletes. On that note, I'd like to ask ya'll about range of motion and how much is too much? Is there such a thing as too much? I'm under the impression that too much isn't so good - dancers, for example, have legendary hip problems due to overuse and a weird range of motion. Ortho docs, chiropractors and even stretching books all pretty much say that too much of a ROM in any joint creates instability. I realize ortho docs, chiros (well, some) and stretching books don't know much about yoga. And yoga isn't simply stretching. I have this fear of "going too far" and injuring myself during any yoga class I take, especially Bikram. Can someone set me straight, please? Fifi |
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| FiFi,
That is a great question and one that is a big part of my everyday. Joint instability is real and can range from great flexibility all the way to disability with countless shades in between. There are many reasons for joint instability such as injury, genetics, and others. I have a genetic disorder called Ehlers Danlos Syndrome type 3 (benign hypermobility syndrome). People with this collagen disorder often have joints that dislocate and sublux easily and often. They also make up a good percentage of contortionists out there. Obviously, this COULD be a good thing in the case of successful contortionists, but unfortunately it often leads to early onset osteoarthritis (as in my case). Some people have this condition so badly (not me thank goodness) that it is difficult to get through life. For example, even swimming in a pool, the force of the water would dislocate their ankle or shoulder and for some people this is very painful.
In my case, I am not especially flexible. I have a mild case. My joints go slightly 'out' often and is painful. I would not practice anything with stretching in my hips as a child because it hurt so badly! I finally got diagnosed in my mid thirties after osteoarthritis started ginking up my routine. It is such a gift for me to understand the problem now. My doctors say that I should NOT do yoga because I don't want to make the joints extra stretchy or more unstable. Personally I disagree. Now I realize the problem and I need yoga everyday to get everything back where it belongs. The docs used to tell me, no yoga and take this vioxx and now they tell me vioxx will kill me. It's a good things I traded my vioxx in on a yoga mat a while ago. I think with my mild condition, that with good common sense, I am working to maintain my ROM from the arthritis while strengthening the supporting muscles around the joints to keep those buggers in place...to me that means a lot of stability.
Sorry this is so long. I hope it helped. |
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| adendum;
I guess one thing I hope to portray is that if you went to a yoga class and I was there, you would never notice me. I am Miss average yoga. 'Joint instability' or 'hypermobility' does not neccessarily mean 'super bendy'...sorry guys... (also there are times that it does). This can occur in one joint, a couple of joints or in all of them (like people who can peel their thumb back and lay it against the forearm). Just be careful if you have a serious case of the noisy joints AND you have a lot of pain with it, this can be an issue. It is hugely overlooked in Western medicine. |
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| Your post was very interesting, Flipcat. Thanks for that. What kind of yoga do you practice, if you don't mind me asking? I think ROM is important, too. And, I think both sides, Eastern and Western philosophies, have both good and bad advice regarding health. Vioxx was just plain evil. I bet Celebrex is next! Anyway, back to joints and ligaments...weight-bearing exercises must help with stability by keeping the muscles nice and strong, no? Wait, I just looked up Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome in my Merck Manual (one thing positive from Merck) and it said that even GI tissues can be affected. Wow. I'd be interested in hearing more about your experience living with EDS. (I'm an acupuncturist and I work for a chiro at a pain clinic, hence the interest). Fifi
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| Then you and I should become friends! 
I am a yogamutt. I am still experimenting when and where I can and trying to keep an open mind to find the style/teacher combo that feels best to me. I seem to be drawn to the more athletic varieties like power, vinyasa, and ashtanga...(but that does not neccessarily mean that is what is best for me). It does seem that moving in and out of poses and the flowing cadence of these styles gives me the more opportunity to get things put back in place.
If you really want to frighten yourself, check out this website; http://how.to/contort for the contortionist's handbook. This was written by a young girl with EDS. I would be interested to see how she feels in her thirties. 
BTW, are you as surprised as I am that Celebrex is still actively advertising? |
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| flipcat - 2004-11-29 3:00 PM
If you really want to frighten yourself, check out this website; http://how.to/contort for the contortionist's handbook. This was written by a young girl with EDS. I would be interested to see how she feels in her thirties.
I just checked out that link. Some of the moves look like very extreme yoga poses, but some of the others I wonder as to how healthy they are for the internal organs or the body in general. The section on shoulder dislocation is scary. Why would anyone want to dislocate anything?  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | The photos are scary bad, but the site is interesting anyway. As I read through it,
I was thinking "I do that one, I do that one, I do that one too" but then I got to
some of the backbends that make Ganda Bherundasana look tame. And the author
starts talking about "folding vertebrae" Some of the splits are out there too.
And the part about controlled shoulder dislocations? No, not for me.
My doctor did a spinal stretching measurement on me recently. In this one,
he marks two points on my back (I think it's the sacrum and the first lumbar
vertebra) and then has me do a forward bend to measure the change in length.
I bent forward, as I often do, and looked at him from behind my legs. He was,
shall we say, surprised, and it led us into a discussion of contortionists. His view
was that some contortionists are setting themselves up for aneurisms later in
life because they are weakened the support that their blood vessels need. He generally
not namby pamby about such things, so I think his opinion had a factual basis.
At some point, I guess, you can backbend too much.
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| Some of them are scary :-( |
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| Looking at the pictures and reading some of the text of the contortion site makes me think that the contortionist't mentality is sort of like that of the Victorian corsetry train of thought. "Let's squish this internal organ or move and possibly break that rib to get a certain look." |
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| Eeeeeewwwww on the contortionists photos.  Just what happens to contortionists after they retire from Cirque de Solei? Aneurysms or arthritis? How awful...Fi |
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| Flipcat, I have a student with that same disorder. Doctors have removed and doubled tendons and connective tissue in efforts to make her shoulders, etc., more stable. All stupid, debilitating and ineffective surgery. She is so hyper mobile that childbirth (twice for some crazy reason) almost ruined her pelvis. Where most women become more mobile from the hormone relaxin, combine that with her disorder? I'm not certain how they got her back together.
I have a several contortonists' photos on my site, too. I tend to choose those that don't look, oh, shall we say "damaging?" People have been doing this for centuries, just like yoga. We still don't have conclusive evidence that it will result in longer lives, osteoarthritis, stroke, etc., but then we don't have evidence that it won't. After all, Sivananda yogin live to be over 100 years old, but those schools that focus on form and alignment don't yet have 100 years upon which to reflect.
I just know that it looks pretty darned painful! |
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| FlipCat,
With EDS, which poses, if any, cause discomfort/pain? Take chattarunga (sp?) for example. What does that do to your shoulder? That's a pose that fatigues me easily and I end up cheating by using other muscles (in not such a good way) and I get really sore (in not such a good way). So, if your muscles fatigue and you end up compensating with other muscles does that endanger you to automatic subluxations? What about locking your knee if you do Bikram yoga? Are strengthening poses the best for you? I hope you don't feel interrogated; I am truly interested in learning more about EDS. Thanks ~ Fifi |
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| FlipCat,
With EDS, which poses, if any, cause discomfort/pain? Take chattarunga (sp?) for example. What does that do to your shoulder? That's a pose that fatigues me easily and I end up cheating by using other muscles (in not such a good way) and I get really sore (in not such a good way). So, if your muscles fatigue and you end up compensating with other muscles does that endanger you to automatic subluxations? What about locking your knee if you do Bikram yoga? Are strengthening poses the best for you? I hope you don't feel interrogated; I am truly interested in learning more about EDS. Thanks ~ Fifi |
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Link to Asana Gallery
