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| I was wondering how many of you mix and match yoga styles.
I've been practicing anusara for a while and sometimes I feel bored with all the alignment focus and want a more physical practice.
Lately I've been drawn to practicing ashtanga also but I feel like that would be "cheating" on my anusara practice!
Anyone else feel this way?
Thanks!
Halla |
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| Hi Halla, I have been practicing Ashtanga for many years now. Personally, I love to experiment with postures from the other styles. So does one of my wonderful teachers, who is in his late sixties and has been practicing yoga for over 30 years. So do some of my friends who are yoga teachers... I have been lucky enough to be exposed to different schools of yoga before I came to Ashtanga. For me, a variety of postures creates a craving for more yoga and certainly keeps me interested. Of course, there are always avid supporters of orthodox yoga. My way or else... In my opinion, whatever keeps you interested and motivated in yoga, is good for you. I don't feel guilty when I experiment, since I know that if I am deprived of that, I would grow very bored quite fast. |
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| Halla:
You brought up a very good point. I am only giving my opinion, use it as you like. Your statement depends on the goal of your practice.
If your goal is to reach certain perfection (defined by you, not by me) in a given practice, such as Anusara or whatever, then if you change in the middle, you are cheating. And, you should continue that practice minimum, and then only add other.
If your goal is try variety of things, you will be cheating if you stick to the same thing, and not try other things.
However, to reach a particular understanding of any Yoga thing, you have to do it for a while, NO , you have to do it for a long time.
sa tu deerghakaalanairantaryasatkaaraasevito drudhabhuumiH - Patanjali.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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| Excellently put, Neel. I absolutely agree that a lot does depend on your goals... I would just like to add that I have always looked for a challenge in yoga practice. I love Ashtanga because it gives me just that. Bringing in asanas from other styles adds to the challenge, but I only do it occasionally, when I am in a playful mood.  |
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| I do different programs or sequences of yoga - Ashtanga, Viniyoga, vinyasa/flow, freestyle, restorative...
But there are only a couple of different styles that I have experienced, and they are not really very different at the root, but vary mainly in emphasis. By sytle, I mean my intention to hold myself & move in a certain way while doing the particular sequence of asanas (or whatever) that are used in the program.
Iyengar & Anusara are (not surprisingly) very similar styles, and the one does not contradict the other. So I do all of my yoga in the style of Iyengar/Anusara. Ashtanga has a stronger emphasis on the locks, and I find that being very mindful of the locks helps me with my kidney & pelvic loops.
So I do Hatha Flow in the style of Anusara, and so forth.
Getting back to your question, I recommend the same practice for you - do everything in the Anusara style. As an added bonus, this approach allows you to begin reconciling the individual styles in your own practice - I have learned alot from asking Iyengar and Ashtanga teachers how they think about alignment & the internal balance of forces in various poses, and comparing their answers to the universal principles of alignment.
I suspect that downdog has taught me more about yoga than any other pose (except maybe tadasana), and asking the same question "how do I align my legs/arms/hips" of a good instructor from each "tradition" is very interesting.
Good Hunting :-) |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
    
| Just to clarify - the universal principles of alignment came from BKS Iyengar. Any differences you may come across are simply ways of wording the same principles. Nobody looked at the alignment of the body until long after he made it known how important it is. |
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| Tourist and others:
There is NO doubt that BKS Iyengar brought the alignment and some other principles in a way not brought by anyone else before. Swami Shivananda of Rishikesh himself made this sttement " there has nnever been such poses before, and never will be, you are like Matsyendra (the maker of Matsyendrasana) born again'. Now, I have my own feelings about that style, and I feel much needs to be added to that style for integration. however, I must acknowledge this contribution. And, for that,
I prostrate myself to this sincere Yoga Teacher.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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| This is a good topic! I started out in a beginner's Iyengar class, moved on to a Hatha flow class and have attended Ashtanga classes for 6 months or so... I have a friend who is an Anusara teacher and sometimes I attend his class....
The one thing I've had come up recently is feeling a bit "micromanaged" by my teachers.... though I dropped the Iyengar class a while ago, I still remember that side angle pose is supposed to be super straight... in Hatha, my teacher wants the alignment with a stretch... in Ashtanga, a super stretch - beyond the perfect alignment is desired and in Anusara, alignment is desired along w/ a big stretch and some isometrics.... whew!
I defiinitely understand the quote I occasionally see that basically says "pick your style and stick with it"! |
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| Thanks for all your replies!
I definitely see the benefit with sticking with one practice and I'd love to be able to be sure about my choice.
However, I find when I practice anusara, because of all the emphasis on alignment, I'm thinking constantly about what body part is where and how I can improve.
For me it leaves little room to celebrate the divine which is why I started practicing yoga in the first place.
With ashtanga, I get out of my head more and feel that my practice is more spiritually driven.
The downside of practicing ashtanga (for me) is I seem to always aquire annoying injuries.
If you are trying to connect with the divine, or however you would like to put it, than doesn't worrying so much about alignment take you farther from that goal?
Or is the point to learn the alignment so well that you eventually stop thinking about it?
Will the obsessing ever end??
Namaste |
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| halla:
Now you asked the real question. Alignment is Divine if you want the alignment for health reasons or asthetic reasons. If you do not care about the alignment for these reasons, you should not associate with them. Whether you need it for the health reasons, you shall see in my last paragraph later.
Now, Ashtanga is NOT divine for the reasons you gave. That is just an excuse because you do not seem to like an alignment. If it is injurious, you must not do. Because, anything injurious can not be divine.
Next, as for divininty Alighment and Ashtanga are Identical, there is NO speical thing in Ashtanga which should give divinity, I mean.
Now, when you want to celebrate divinity, it brings you to ONLY one thing. That is Meditation of some kind. You can do it using Chanting, Kirtan, Focusing, Visualization, Sound, or whatever. When you start doing it, you shall know whether the health problem is an obstacle such as posture, breathing, pain, etc. If this obstacle causes problem, you must address it. And, without any doubt, Alignment will be a pat of the problem, thus making the Alignment a necessary element towrds divinity. In the words of the Sage Patanjali:
sthirasukham asanam, tato dvandvanabhighatah, tasmin sati shvasaprashvasayor,,,,, etc.
Best Luck
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org
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Expert Yogi
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| Halla - when you continue to work with alignment, it does start to move into the back ground in a way. Eventually you know to lift your kneecaps (or whatever loopy spiral they call it in Anusara) without being told. Your kneecaps will stay aware without having to be "micro managed" (good term!) The trick is to ultimately bring that awareness level to the entire body and then begin moving inward through the deeper sheaths of the body and find the "mystical message" of the pose. In fact, there comes a place where there is a lot less thinking and a lot of just "being" but at first it can be a lot of thinking, I agree. I often tell new students to not think about what I say and then try to make their body do it via instructions from the brain. Just listen and do.
One trouble with flow of any kind, especially for beginners is that they think they are getting "out of their head" but are really getting out of their BODY and going to that happy, floaty place thinking it is meditation. It is not. And then you get injured. If you love flow, and I understand the appeal, it is a really good idea to learn your alignment very very well.
Neel, I think you might be surprised to hear BKS now. My teachers come back from India with all sorts of info about the vayus, bahiranga sadhana, antaranga sadhana, antaratma sadhana, etc. Of course, this is not taught to beginners but the teachings seem to be moving to another level. Perhaps we in the west are finally ready for them! |
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| Dear Tourish:
Thanks for sharing. I am glad of what is happening. Actually, I meet BKS each year at least once as he used to be my neighbours for years, and I go to do Pranam each time I go to Pune. I also closely know his family including his divine late wife who used to call me for lunches.
To your delight, I have a picture of Geeta Iyengar and Prashant when they were small kids, where my father is teaching them Mathematics as a tutor.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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| Neel and Tourist, thank you both for your insight!!
Your responses made me realize that what I was in search for was indeed that "happy floaty place"!
And that I'm trying to avoid the work and I'm probably also trying to escape from what is or from myself.
You guys hit the nail on the head.
More to ponder.
Namaste |
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| Great posts. I have one physical body, there is one earth. There are many forms of yoga done in relationship to the earth and all the subtle fields. Alignment is about getting into balance with the earth so there is a deepening of experience into the subtle. Teachers can help you see what you might not be able to see and give tips in alignment. It gets less technical and complicated as practice unfolds. The feeling and sensing in the postures start to give a clearer picture of alignment than the general guide lines in class. Everybody has a unique binding of forces and fields. A unique structure and function. There are general rules of alignment that go for everyone then there are ones that are paticular to the person. I try and lead students to better relationship of core (being) in the physical body to the core of the earth. Core to core balance with passive and active elements makes the physical part of yoga easy and all that is whats left is the deepening and relization. Were we get into trouble are the idealizations of alignment. Students can take these in, and try to match the picture in there bodies making for a over active experience. It takes alot of energy to match internal pictures. I tell beginners to keep working on alignment at and at some point it becomes second nature because it just feels right and lighter. A movement into what is most natural to our being. The last trick in alignment is made by you personally by being honest in what you feel and following your bodies intuition. As a rolfer I have not found a form of yoga that was gifted in alignment. A gifted teacher of alignment is made by the person who put the energy into it and was only helped by a certain form of yoga school. By their seeing they know alignment and not an idealized image of alignment. I had worked very diligently in the most technical field on alignment (Structural integration) and found it well well worth the time to study. Hatha yoga and alignment go hand in hand. Ida Rolf started the field of Rolfing because of the many short comings of hatha yoga. She saw and she saw that as Hatha yoga was being done at the time, it was not even close to the alignments she new. I can attest to this since I can see miss alignments from a long distance in the millameters. With out her work I don't think I would have gained this ability. Not that I try to get students this accurate but it is what my sight beholds. I believe the more people work on seeing and alignment that a clearer picture of balanced relationships (Subtle and physical) will be able to be easily expressed and thus experienced. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Neel, what a gift to have the Iyengars as neighbours when you were growing up. When I read what Guruji has written about his late wife, I can feel the true depth of their relationship. I have had the opportunity to meet and be taught by Geeta and she is a remarkable woman and teacher. I think it is important to me as a student that they have lived as householders, with the problems and pressures that daily life in the real world presents us with. Geeta spoke on her birthday about how she sometimes had a practice that is "up and down" and not always as much as she wished and everyone can understand that. It is not like they live in a cave and tell us we must do 8 hours of tapas and 10 hours of asana and pranayama per day and only eat grass! 
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Expert Yogi
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| Halla - we are ever so good at trying to escape. Here I am on the computer talking yoga instead of doing! I also recently discoverd that, in downward dog (a pose that I used to hate but thought I had learned to love) I am always looking out between my right arm and foot. I asked myself "why are you looking there?" and the answer was "to find a way out of this pose!" so now there is another level of working in good old dog pose for me. And when that is done, another will present itself, I am sure. That's yoga! |
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| Mkotya? What is "orthodox yoga?" Never heard of it, myself.
Tourist, John Friend and co. would pull their hair out to read you saying Iyengar created the Loops and Sprials. Although there is a difference in languaging that is slight in some ways, the "package" is very different. I contend that given JF's Iyengar background, it makes it easy to move from one school to the other, though.
As far as moving from one practice to another? Eh. Halla, if you're still focusing on all the alignment details, it tells me (as an Ansuara and ashtanga teacher) that you do not yet have these important details in your muscle memory. What Tourist described about your knee caps is just that. When it happens all by itself, it's ingrained. At that point, consider trying an Intro to Ashtanga. Remember that Intro to Ashtanga is NOT Intro to Yoga, so your Anusara training will do well by you as you move through more faster-paced practices. Does your studio offer any kind of introductory flow or vinyasa classes? Doing them at an Anusara school helps you combine the breath, alignment and movement in an alignment-based enviornment.
I take and teach Anusara, but my practice is Ashtanga. Learn what it is you want out of each different type of practice, decide what doesn't serve you and embrace them all. They're all yoga. Just different.
Christine |
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| Although there is a difference in languaging that is slight in some ways, the "package" is very different.<<
I'll second that one!  |
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| I for one am grateful that I can go to different yoga styles.
Fortunately My first teacher loved power yoga, but later went on to found a studio that includes Anusara instruction as well. Her attention to alignment and details to avoid injury really helped me when I was introduced to a true Ashtanga instructor. I would have been so dead had I started in an Ashtanga class wher the instructor simply calls out Plank, Up Dog, Down Dog, Etc. I learn by seeing, hearing and doing. That's also why I'm glad I didn't start with Bikram. Students cannot model poses as well as an experienced teacher.
Right now I go to several instructors schooled in ashtanga/power yoga, one anusuara instructor who holds static poses a long time, and a Hatha teacher who uses a light, flowing gentle yoga style. I find all of them to be wonderful workouts in their own way. I also use a monthly Bikram class. Bikram is starting to grow on me, and I love what the heat does to my stretches.
I say that if you can enjoy different styles for variety, go for it.
Edited by MrD 2005-01-26 7:11 PM
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Expert Yogi
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| Hey Christine - good to see you. No, I just meant that BKS established the principles. Friend and co. learned the principles from BKS but choose to use other words to describe the same actions, which is fair enough. I am presuming here that JF has not changed any of the alignments? No dropping knee caps or hunching shoulderblades in Anusara, I hope... |
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| YogaDancer - 2005-01-26 3:36 PM
Mkotya? What is "orthodox yoga?" Never heard of it, myself.
Christine
It was a figure of speech, Christine. I meant that some teachers require students to conform to strict guidelines (defined by either the teacher himself/herself or the specific school/teacher they are following) while practicing yoga, such as precise sequence with no deviations. Sometimes these teachers or schools get so strict that even the smallest details (e.g. hands together in a prayer or only index fingers extended) cannot be altered by the students.
Edited by mkotya 2005-01-26 9:36 PM
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| When a student is in a class, then
Teacher is the teacher and Student is a student. That means student should try his/her bestt to do what is instructed. If it is impossible, it should be informed to the teacher.
Now, when it is felt that TEacher is telling wrong, the student should leave the place.
Neel Kulkarni
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| Here we go again, Neel.
"should" is a really evil word.
While I support your sentiments about leaving a class if the teacher is teaching "wrong," I question what "wrong" is.
I had someone from here email me privately. He'd taken 2 yoga classes so far in his entire life. He was telling me the teacher was bad and asking me what he should do. I was forced to ask him what the heck he thought he knew, and on what basis was he making this judgement? What did he have against which he could compare this teacher? What did HE know about yoga?
So this judgement is not one I support. Particularly with so many newbies browsing this board. If it feels like it hurts, SPEAK UP and stop. Learn the difference between unused muscles complaining and actual PAIN. There are so many ways and methods to teach the same poses, also learn the difference between wrong and different. You might not like the particular version being taught, but ask yourself why? Is it because it's harder? So you don't try ... why?
If you're an experienced yogi (and I do mean more than 1 year and hopefully more than one yoga tradition experience), and you're qualified to decide this teacher is uneducated/dangerous/untrained/nasty? Then quietly leave and find someone else.
But if you're just bored? IMHO, you're not working hard enough with what's going on. I hate chit-chat, but I do learn when I just focus on the actual physical instruction. In Halla's case, she needs this stuff in her muscles before she moves on. Why not set herself up to practice yoga safely?
anyway.
I agree and disagree with your post.
Christine |
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| YogaDancer - 2005-01-27 11:23 AM
I had someone from here email me privately. He'd taken 2 yoga classes so far in his entire life. He was telling me the teacher was bad and asking me what he should do. I was forced to ask him what the heck he thought he knew, and on what basis was he making this judgement? What did he have against which he could compare this teacher? What did HE know about yoga?
If you're an experienced yogi (and I do mean more than 1 year and hopefully more than one yoga tradition experience), and you're qualified to decide this teacher is uneducated/dangerous/untrained/nasty? Then quietly leave and find someone else.
Christine
Christine, two things here:
1) Just because a person did not take any yoga classes, doesn't mean they know nothing about yoga. I, for one, studied eastern philosophy and religion long before I took my first yoga class. It is Ok to question this person's reasons for disliking the teacher, but who are you to judge what this person who emailed you knows or doesn't know about yoga?
2) You don't have to be experienced in yoga to know that what a person is teaching may be totally wrong. My very first yoga class was taught by a student of a cult leader (the latter had since committed suicide). I didn't need to practice yoga for years to know that POWER, MONEY, etc. had absolutely nothing to do with Buddhism this person was teaching! At that time, I may not have had a lot of experience with yoga, but darn, I *WAS* qualified to say that the teacher was full of you know what! And if I didn't walked away, God only knows where I would have been now! |
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| I should perhaps have shared more of the converation than I did, but I wanted to maintain at least a semblance of privacy.
Let it suffice to say that although your points are well taken, absolutely, the conversation of which I was part made it very clear this person didn't know their ears from their elbows and was not qualified to make judgement calls about an asana teacher.
Since I asked what type of yoga this person was taking, and he had no time for that hoo-ha involving philosophy, history, etc., that element didn't really enter into our conversation or his judgement of this teacher.
I won't go into more detail, since for some reason he didn't want this on the boards. I try to direct people to post so all can comment or learn, but get the hint, he didn't.
Ah well. I maintain that most are not qualified to judge a yoga teacher's qualifications, which is why we end up with so many dangerous teachers entering the market place. And why outfits like YogaFit, etc., are making so much money.
But that's another rant, isn't it?
Christine |
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