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yogic diet and fermented foods
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ganesha
Posted 2005-02-24 9:22 AM (#17540)
Subject: yogic diet and fermented foods


Hello everyone,
I have a question concerning the yogic diet: fermented foods are usually considered tamasic and should be avoided; is this true for every type of fermented food? what about organic tempeh or miso (very useful in a vegan diet), or soy sauce?

thank you,
ganesha
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Cyndi
Posted 2005-02-24 10:07 AM (#17548 - in reply to #17540)
Subject: RE: yogic diet and fermented foods



Expert Yogi

Posts: 5098
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC

Hello Ganesh,

Fermented foods cause dampness in the body and should be avoided.  Fermented foods are also high in carbs and are basically sugar.  As for Soy products... the soy products used today are not the same as what was traditionally used in asian cooking, so the rule is to be very careful about these products and their claims and use them very moderately if at all, especially if you are trying to stay away from Tamasic or Rajasic foods.  You have to remember that Miso and Tempeh are used in cultures that rely on these products for protein and B6 and B12, they also don't eat these type foods on a regular basis, and their diets consists of mostly vegetables, grains, legumes, rice and plain tofu.  Soo, fermented foods would be a poor choice say for someone with a high Kapha and Vata dosha..Pitta people can handle these types of foods better because of their cooling effects, but even for this type dosha - everything in moderation.   It's much better to be Sattvic, but when you really have to eat away from home or with someone you are not used to their cooking, (on occasion) at least you have a good foundation. Think about how many people that don't even think about this and then look at their health problems and their future health problems that they are setting up for themselves by not paying attention. Hope that helps.

Cyndi - my husband calls me Laxmi:~)



Edited by Cyndi 2005-02-24 10:15 AM

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Posted 2005-02-24 1:26 PM (#17573 - in reply to #17548)
Subject: RE: yogic diet and fermented foods


Surely the necter of the gods, beer, is not yogically considered a fermented food.
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Cyndi
Posted 2005-02-24 2:01 PM (#17575 - in reply to #17573)
Subject: RE: yogic diet and fermented foods



Expert Yogi

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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC
Yep!! It is Rajasic.  The good news Bruce is that this is not saying you HAVE to stop drinking your favorite beverage...it is a matter of choice.  It is probably worse to give up the beer because you were forced to, rather than being totally done with it and then moving onto higher levels of consciousness.  We all know the examples of what alcohol and effects of it produce - this is one of the major problems in every society now.  Choosing a Sattvic diet and approach to life is a choice, just like doing your Yoga practice.  Everyone is at different levels and subject to change at any given moment.  When a person starts on a spiritual path, your mind and body start changing and you start noticing these connections.  IF, you are lucky, your body will let you know when you no longer need it and you will have time to reverse the effects...if not, - your body will choose for you and by then it could be too late:~)  Knowing in advance is always a plus because rather than reaching the point of no return when you can' t be helped (like a severe case of liver cancer that is irreversible or causes a low quality of life) you can reverse the cause and effect of your indulgences and the aging process - right now!  Which then of course will alter your karma and maybe produce a longer healthier life so that you can enjoy your Savasana:~)

Edited by Cyndi 2005-02-24 2:08 PM
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kulkarnn
Posted 2005-02-24 2:30 PM (#17581 - in reply to #17540)
Subject: RE: yogic diet and fermented foods


Dear Ganesha:
Ideal Diet of a Yogi is only 4 items, all in its Raw and Fresh Form: Tree Ripe Fruits, Certain Vegetables such as Lettuce, Cucumbers, etc., Nuts, and Seeds.

Thus, in ideal diet fermented food does not play any role.

Ayurvedic Diet is NOT an ideal diet for a yogi.

Now, vegetarian diet is next choice.

However, diet is only one factor in the whole deal. So, if one eats miso, it does not mean one would not progress in Yoga, actually one eating miso can also achieve Samadhi state. Of course, eating miso does not give Samadhi state either.

Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org
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Cyndi
Posted 2005-02-24 3:00 PM (#17589 - in reply to #17581)
Subject: RE: yogic diet and fermented foods



Expert Yogi

Posts: 5098
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC

Neel wrote:

Ayurvedic Diet is NOT an ideal diet for a yogi.

and Cyndi responds respectfully:

This is debatable.  Ayurvedic medicine emphasizes that a person must take an active role in his or her own healing process.  Natural remedies that harmonize with the body and promote the body's own healing abilities are central to the ancient practice of Ayurveda.  Having that said....MOST Americans that are practicing Yoga have not even begun to reflect upon this type of statement...in fact, they are still relying on the western influence of medical doctors (in some cases are okay) and have yet to discover the endless possibilities of how to eat properly and the reasons why.  I do believe there are some lineages that do reach certain levels as Yogis and Yoginis, and any types of medicine and even Ayurveda would no longer be necessary for them as they can control their mind to that level and is very rare.  In Tibet, they say there are Dakas and Dakinis that live on air alone. Most of us are still doing our karmic duties and depend on such maladies at this point.

One of the things I find very interesting is that the particular cookbook that I retreived my original post in the other thread about vegetarian vs. meat came from the Shiva Monastery's Cookbook in Kapaa, Hawaii under the direction of Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami.  In this book they use all Ayurvedic principals in their monastery and grow everything on their premesis.  In fact, they promote Ayurvedic principals.



Edited by Cyndi 2005-02-24 3:30 PM
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Lakhesis
Posted 2005-02-25 1:21 AM (#17642 - in reply to #17540)
Subject: RE: yogic diet and fermented foods


In the absolute layrinth of nutritional and health information, its way too easy for all of us to get ridiculously confused about what we should and shouldn't eat.
IMO, it's almost counter-productive that so much info is out there. For the mostpart because its made so many of us lose our intuitive nutritional faculty.
I studied nutrition for 4 years as part of my naturopathic medicine diploma,, and as a result I've followed every diet and eating approach on the planet, probably twice, and ended up far more confused than I was before I studied.
My advice is this: pull away ALL restrictions for a month, and try to get in touch with your intuition. Try the fermented foods and see how they FEEL, rather than read the literature or try to follow the philosophy. Do this with any other food that even crosses your mind. After a while, your body will start telling you what it wants, and you'll feel the after-effects of certain foods not only on your digestion and mood, but in your asana practise and meditation experiences. An example of this relating to this particular thread: I'm as stiff as a board and a bit fuzzy in my asana practise and meditation the morning after a few beers, but something like gin and tonic leaves me as twisty and clear as ever! Similarly, I'm great the morning after a sauerkraut-involving meal or some tempeh, but not so great with yeasty foods.
I truly believe that every body is different and, especially if we're practising asana and meditation, our bodies change on a cellular level by the minute. Sometimes I'm stronger, other times more vulnerable. Some days I need raw foods and juices, others I need lots of lassi and dairy, others I tuck into a big ol' schnitzel and thrive. It's totally dependent on the moment, and what my 'gut' tells me.
One trick I've taught myself that's really lended to my sense of intuition and wellbeing: if I'm planning on eating something, I'll hold a thought or memory of that food in my mind, then quietly ask myself 'Will this be medicine, poison or neutral for me?' After a bit of practise, you'll get it right every time.
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ganesha
Posted 2005-02-25 3:50 AM (#17649 - in reply to #17540)
Subject: fermented foods


Cyndi, Neel, thank you for your reply. As I follow a vegan diet (mostly vegetables, nuts, legumes, rice, tofu and whole pasta - we are in Italy) tempeh and miso could be a good source of B group vitamins but you are right and they certainly are not necessary in a yogic diet.

Lakhesis, what you say is true: we need to rely on our body judgment, but I think that sometimes we have to trust the masters even if we do not understand completely, as our discriminative ability is not always, if ever, perfect. Then you can observe the outcome and decide for yourself.

12 years ago I switchd to a vegetarian diet and the effects were amazing; almost two years ago I started to follow a vegan diet and I was able to experience more mental clarity, so I think it is a good choice. If I eat a bag of french fries with a pint of beer - sorry Bruce, this is just hypothetical - my body yells at me but if I eat a tempeh burger I have no signals, so I think I will just have to trust yogis' advice and see

om shanti,
ganehsa
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ganesha
Posted 2005-02-25 4:09 AM (#17650 - in reply to #17581)
Subject: RE: yogic diet and fermented f


However, diet is only one factor in the whole deal. So, if one eats miso, it does not mean one would not progress in Yoga, actually one eating miso can also achieve Samadhi state. Of course, eating miso does not give Samadhi state either.


Yes, this is certainly true. I know there are (very few) real yogis that occasionally eat meat. Maybe they are beyond karmic laws, who knows

And Thushara said:
"What you eat cannot purify your mind
but is there greed behind your choice of eating?
If yes, the mind that eats is not pure - be your choice vegetarian or not."

I agree with the second half, but I think that what you eat can help to purify your mind.

om shanti,
ganesha
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Star
Posted 2005-02-25 7:38 AM (#17655 - in reply to #17589)
Subject: RE: yogic diet and fermented f


Dear Cyndi,

Im new to Yoga , and Im new here., I have been searching for a forum which I could get some useful guidelines about a change in my life style. And I’m happy that I found this

I see the problem of most of the people here are the over weight problem., But my problem is I’m too thin and Im not comfortable with it at all, Im a vegetarian too..

Do you think I should change my diet?
Do you think I can have a nice figure by doing yoga?

I see that you have an excellent knowledge in Healthy dietary habits., So I would like to get some advise from you for my problems.

Your advice/comments are really appreciated


Edited by Star 2005-02-25 7:45 AM
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Cyndi
Posted 2005-02-25 9:17 AM (#17664 - in reply to #17655)
Subject: RE: yogic diet and fermented f



Expert Yogi

Posts: 5098
5000252525
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC

Well, Thank you Star...I appreciate your comments...they are very welcomed:~)

First of all I would like to say that any time you change your diet to alter yourself, its better to be very knowlegeable about what you are doing first, that way you can't hurt yourself and you must be ready to accept the changes.  I say *ready* and *accept* - major key words here - because you will go through changes. 

Having that said, I believe that in order to do this you need to start with someone you can totally trust to guide you through the initial steps.  I chose a Traditional Chinese MD from Bejing to help me get started.  She was available to me all the time for my questions, she also would balance my body when those changes would take place and my body's reactions - sometimes it was good and sometimes it could be a little freaky.  I did it this way for over 5 years.  Then I moved on to another male Chinese MD that specializes in women's problems and my experience and body has gone much deeper.  As for the diet part, I have gotten to the point where I don't need much guidance in that department, I rely mostly on an TCMD for balance in the field of Acupunture and proper herbal formulas to take if I even need them at all - I mostly do Acupunture now like for when I took a posture too far and upset my balance.  I've been doing this type of lifestyle for over 10 years now and I am very pleased with my results.  I used common sense and I trusted the person guiding me through it.  That was very critical to my healing.  The other critical point here is that I did NOT mix western medicine with Chinese herbs.  You must discuss everything with the person you choose to help you.  If you choose someone to guide you through - you must use common sense and find someone with quality and knowledge and experience...not someone who is just learning ancient healing methods..like I would NEVER go to an American who is new to treating people using Eastern methods - check them out totally before you choose someone.  Always remember, its okay to fire someone if you don't like the results are uncomfortable with what is happening.

Now, my Yoga experience.  My TCMD loves Yoga.  He thinks what I am doing is very good for me.  He says my body has changed in the shape and I feel it too!  My entire body is toned up and I feel so much stronger now.  I got similar results with Tai Qi/Qi Gong, but not nearly the results from yoga.  It's a different thing. I do mostly the Bikram method - because I like it and the heat.  Last night I started to get a headache..well, after doing a few little things like standing in a hot shower, I fell asleep and no more headache.  3 yrs ago I could not say that when I was going through some difficult stressful times.  So it works.  I say stick with Yoga, it doesn't matter whether you are overweight or underweight, the results can be achieved no matter where you are and always remember - Yoga is a Process!!

Some good reading is "The Tao of Healthy Eating" by Bob Flaws and Healing with Whole Foods: Asian Traditions and Modern Nutrition by Paul Pitchford.  These 2 books can answer all your questions. 

Hope this helps and Best Wishes and Good Luck with your practice.  Feel free to ask me any questions you like..I'll be happy to share my experience...but the real work is all up to you.  Have a great day:~)



Edited by Cyndi 2005-02-25 9:27 AM
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Star
Posted 2005-02-25 11:28 AM (#17685 - in reply to #17664)
Subject: RE: yogic diet and fermented f


Thanks Cyndi., To tell u the truth, this is the most useful advice Ive got (so far). I wish if you could write more.
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