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| Just something I have been wondering about. In LOY it is recommended that sirsasana and its variations be done first before other asanas becaue it is difficult to balanace when the body is tired. However in the astanga primary series sirsasana comes near the end of the finishing sequence. I am finding that by the time I get to it I am so tired I can barely hold it for 5 breaths, whereas if I do sirsasana by itself I can hold it for over a minute quite easily. What does everyone think of this ? |
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| That's a great question. Both Iyengar and Sivananda systems start with Sirsasana as the opening asana while in the Ashtanga system it is the concluding asana.
In his book Yoga Mala, Pattabhi Jois warns one with dire consequences if Sirsasana is not done in the end as part of the finishing sequence. He even takes a dig at Iyengar for prescribing Sirsasana as the opening asana.
It would be great to know the views of the experienced yogis and yoginis in the forum.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
    
| In fact Sirsasana is sometimes but not always done at the beginning of an Iyengar practice. However Sarvangasana and/or other shoulderstand poses do always come after Sirsasana. Headstand is considered to be heating and shoulderstand etc. are considered cooling for the body, especially the nervous system. The Iyengar philosophy says that it is best to end a practice in a satvic, calm state and such aspects of shoulderstand as the holding of the jalandara bandha help contain the energy within the body. I would love to hear the reasons behind putting sirsasana last in a practice. |
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| bomperpig:
This is what I think about this:
a) Do shirsasana, NO, any other asana, when you are NOT tired for doing that asana.
b) Whether you do it in the beginning or in the middle or at the end, or whenever, see whether you are tired. If you are tired even to start it, do not do it. If you can start, then do it, and when you are tired, come down.
c) This applies to Whatever Yoga Style you follow. There should never be any style which violates the above two rules, otherwise, it is NOT a Yoga At All.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | tourist - 2005-03-22 8:00 PM
In fact Sirsasana is sometimes but not always done at the beginning of an Iyengar practice. However Sarvangasana and/or other shoulderstand poses do always come after Sirsasana. Headstand is considered to be heating and shoulderstand etc. are considered cooling for the body, especially the nervous system. The Iyengar philosophy says that it is best to end a practice in a satvic, calm state and such aspects of shoulderstand as the holding of the jalandara bandha help contain the energy within the body. I would love to hear the reasons behind putting sirsasana last in a practice.
It's interesting to add that Iyengar put Sarvangasana immediately after Sirsasana in LOY
sequences, with both coming *first* in the practice. Today's thinking, as Glenda notes, is
that Sarvangasana should come at the end. I've practiced both ways, following LOY or not.
Doing headstand cycle followed by shoulderstand cycle amounts to about 50 minutes in
inversion, after which I find that I am RATHER mellow. If shoulderstand is moved to the end
of the series, it is indeed cooling. And the time after headstand cycle can still be quite
vigorous (good for balances, twists, backbends or whatever). I don't put shouldstand
early in a practice unless I intend the practice to be deeply calming.
I've also done the ashtanga sequencing (often). There's a major difference that hasn't been
mentioned yet, which is that one holds headstand for maybe 25 breaths in primary series
and shoulderstand for something similar. Headstand variations are not done, and the
shoulderstand variations are short. I love doing both poses at the end of ashtanga practice
and in that setting they are both calming. Not much time is spent in headstand in comparison
to Iyengar practice, so the fact that one's arms and abs may be tired after ashtanga has
little effect on the ability to do headstand. It would be very different to do 20 minutes of
headstand and variations after a vinyasa practice.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Yes, the main thing is, as I pointed out in another thread, is that you know WHY you are doing a sequence. As teachers, one thing to keep in mind is that we might want to teach Sirsasana early in a class for students who are very new to the pose so they are fresh, then in the middle of the class if you want to work on the actions and effects of the pose and can come nearer the end if students are very experienced. One of my teachers said (possibly quoting someone else, my note taking skills are terrible) that each pose has its own purpose in a practice/class, a purpose for helping in another pose plus a purpose in the whole of the practice. Getting a handle on all of those ideas is a big task.  |
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| We do sirsasana, if we do it at all, always towards the end of class. For I'm in a beginner's class it's probably meant by our teacher as a special treat for the more advanced and daring people when we have some time left to play around and get silly.  I rather like it that way. After more than an hour of focused and sometimes bland asana practice it's a nice opportunity to try out something new and get wild. Like a bedtime sweets. 
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| Bay Guy - 2005-03-22 11:04 PM
tourist - 2005-03-22 8:00 PM Not much time is spent in headstand in comparison
to Iyengar practice, so the fact that one's arms and abs may be tired after ashtanga has
little effect on the ability to do headstand.
Well I have another question. I actually uses my upper arms a lot and also my abs in sirsasana to get the balance and alignment right, although lately I am getting more confident in putting more of my body weight on my head. I think this explains why I am too tired to hold the pose for a long period at the end of the astanga practice. So my new question is : what should be the weight distribution in sirsasana ? In LOY it says the whole weight of the body should be borne on the head alone and not on the forearms and hands. But in David Swenson's astanga practice manual he suggested that sirsasana may truly be considered an arm balance because this i where the vast majority of the weight is distributed. Or is that just advice for beginners ? Or shall I throw the books away and stop thinking too much about it all ?
And thank you Neel, I will remember your two pieces of advice always. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | That's kind of a puzzle. I've put the weight in both places at times,
but I prefer to carry it all using my spine and head. The arms are just stabilizers.
But occassionally I will use the arms to lift my head off of the floor in headstand
(e.g., to adjust the position of my head or to lift into a forearm balance).
Putting some force into the arms can help to align the upper back, bringing the
shoulderblades toward the ribs, and preventing too much mid-back kyphosis or
lumbar lordosis. So if you are working on your vertical alignment in headstand,
the arms have a big role to play in setting a straight foundation.
I think that putting *all* the weight into the arms is mainly a beginner approach
to help protect the neck. Until you are very comfortable balancing in headstand,
it's probably better not to ask the neck to carry all the weight. Use the arms strongly.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Putting some force into the arms can help to align the upper back, bringing the
shoulderblades toward the ribs, and preventing too much mid-back kyphosis or
lumbar lordosis. So if you are working on your vertical alignment in headstand,
the arms have a big role to play in setting a straight foundation.
I think that putting *all* the weight into the arms is mainly a beginner approach
to help protect the neck. Until you are very comfortable balancing in headstand,
it's probably better not to ask the neck to carry all the weight. Use the arms strongly.
Absolutely right. We are all technically "beginners" working towards progressively more difficult postures so would eventually do a niralamba (unsupported) headstand but for now, we need to a very good salamba (supported) pose. The work of the arms to get the lift of the shoulders and all the other things we do in salamba sirsasana will undoubtedly come in handy on the magical day we go "hands free"  |
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| Thanks guys that was very helpful  |
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sirsasana
