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| I just started doing handstand in my class and my teacher warned against "yoga wrists" coming from all pressure being placed on the heel of the hand. I can't quite seem to distribute the weight evenly throughout my whole hand, and am worried about this proverbial yoga wrist. Has anyone aquired this ailment on their yoga journey, or had experience warding it off? Any advice for my handstand dilemma? |
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| Hand Stand isn't the only asana where you need to be careful of this. Down Dog, Plank, table etc. all involve the wrists. Hand Stand isn't the time to start working on alignment of the wrists, but to utilize what you've learned through other asanas. I've found Down Dog in particular is great for working with wrists and hands.
BTW since we're talking about hand stand I did get up into it once at home the other day. No luck since then, but at least now I know that I can.  |
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| Hi
Headstand should be learned with great care. first one should practice against a wall as mentioned in Iyengar's 'Light on Yoga'.
There is no need to concentrate on the pressure that is applied with your hands. Just concentrate on your balance and remember that only the good support from your hands you can excel in the posture.
just try very slowly and learn yourself following the important instructions given by your instructors :)
Edited by sateesh 2005-03-25 7:13 AM
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| Actually shateesh, I am all set with head stand, it is hand stand that I am concerned about now, but that is good head stand advice. I am actually starting my hand stand at the wall and under the supervision of a teacher.
CCG, congrats on your hand stand! It can be very thrilling. Perhaps I could use plank, down dog, up dog, and cobra to build the stregnth and focus I need to not have all the weight on the heel of my hand.
I have also had a yoga teacher that did not do these poses with open palms, but on a fist (except for down dog), in order to save her already sensitive wrists. Ever seen anyone do this? Would this affect the integrity of the pose?
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| Side Plank is a pose that seems to really help strengthen my wrists. |
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Expert Yogi
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| Jordan - keep working in all the poses that support the body weight on the hands, especially in down dog. You need to concentrate on pressing the "roots of the fingers" (the bottom knuckle, just at the top of the palm) into the floor, especially the thumb and forefinger. If you learn that well in down dog before you start working on handstands, it shouldn't be a problem. Also, don't use a spongey, soft mat or carpet to practice on if you can help it. The wrists will sink and get over stretched. This is one reason we need to get a good strong foundation of basic poses before moving onto more advanced poses. Overdoing early on can result in long lasting problems that stay with you for years. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Tourist is right about problems that can linger, especially various kinds of
tendonitis that can be slow to heal. And down dog is a very good (and safe)
place to start working on wrist and shoulder alignment before going to balances
that put more weight on those joints.
For handstand, I'd actually suggest something different for the fingers -- keep them
very active. Bend the knuckles so that only the finger tips and heel of the palm are
carrying much weight. The intermediate knuckles are more sensitive to injury if they are
repeatedly pressed against a hard surface because you have a tendon there that will be
compressed between bone and floor (I am speaking from personal experience...OUCH!).
You'll also have more leverage for holding your balance (once your feet are off the wall)
if you put the weight on the two ends of the hand rather than in the middle
someplace (i.e, a longer lever arm).
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| There is also the issue of lifting the little arch between the thumb pad and the pad at the very base of the baby finger side of the hand (at the base of the palm above the wrist - jeeze - where is my anatomy colouring book when I need it?!  ) OK- Gray's online calls it the transcarpal ligament area. That has to lift. It is just like the shoulders pressing down while the neck vertebrae lift off the mat/floor in shoulderstand. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
This is the spot where the life line runs, isn't it?
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| Wow, this is all great advice, thank you all so much. With all of these actions combined I really feel much more of a lift out of the hands than the sort of dead weight I was putting on the heel of the palm before in shoulder stand. I think the key is really to strengthen more, but hopefully I wont be doing damage in the stegthening process now.
That was a good analogy to lifting of grounding the shoulders and lifting up of the vertabrae and neck. Silly body and its congruencies. |
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| The way this really clicked home for me, was to think of people who can hold their hand up and only bend the very first knuckle of their fingers. Kind of looks weird!
However, if you think of bending just the finger pads, ie that knuckle, into the floor and keeping a slight hollow in your hands, this gives you the lift and play to balance in handstand. I think of them as tree-frog fingers.
This whole action will do great things for any asana that involves your hands on the floor! Purvotanasana is huge for handstand hands, because it stretches tight wrists. Work your fingers and you'll feel your entire arm activate!
Good luck. Get off the heel -- carpal tunnel awaits those who hang on on that cushy part of their hands!
Christine |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| I have a friend who can do that thing of bending the top joint of her finger. It is creepy and cool at the same time  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
I can do that with some fingers... used to be able to do all of them, but things change... |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| I have a coffee mug that says "Over 50 everything that does hurt, doesn't work." Not that I am implying Bay Guy, that you are over 50 and I myself am faaar from that age... I have an older husband  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
It will be a while b/f I hit 50. I have been wondering, 'though, about yoga
and aging. One older yogi that I have done some workshops with has developed
trouble with a hip (or knee) joint, which is clearly keeping him from some of
the dramatic asanas that he used to do. It was really very informative to me
to observe how he was adapting to this problem and the rigors of age. He can
still do some very extraordinary things, and he's adjusted around the limitations
of that joint. His teaching seems to have evolved toward a more philosophical
bent (although he was never short on that) and he is emphasizing pranayama
more.
You see, we spend most of the first 3 decades of life being taught how to be
adults, but we're on our own when it comes to learning how to grow old.
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| hmmm..i kinda get some pain in the wrists whenever i do the patient crane and also the side plank--i guess i'm putting too much pressure on the base of my palm.
thanks for the suggestions--any more will be welcome..
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| One teacher of mine combines the advice of Bay Guy & tourist, using downdog as a strengthening pose. We start in all-fours with a slight "tiger paw" orientation of the hands, bringing the weight into the knuckles, fingertips, & perimeter of the hand, & lifting up the center of the hand & creating the arch at the wrist. Then we work to lift up the back of the hand until it is inline with the arm. This is a great strengthener.
Then, after the wrists are stronger, we try to move forward into a tall downdog, trying to leave enough room under the center of the wrist-arch of the hand, to slide a finger in. This exercise is definitely done on a mat, since it moves almost all of the weight forward in the hand. I also want to emphasize that this is an exercise, not a variation to practice all of the time :-).
Also, before oding the handstand, you might want to make sure that the wrist is well warmed up by a preparatory sequence of dogs & such that use the wrists, but in a less strong way. I tend to be pretty warm by the time I get to headstands, & doing crane or a variation before handstand seems to be a good "finishing touch" to the wrist warmup process.
Finally, don't worry about the dreaded "yoga wrists." It is normal for the wrists to be a little sore when first building them up to advanced poses. Same for everything else, at least in my 50yo body :-). It comes & then it goes :-).
Finally, if you feel that you have stressed or injured your wrist (or anything else) during practice, try to ice the wrist that evening. Three cycles of 20mins on & 20 mins off works well for most folks. Try to do two sets of this a day for a couple of days, until the injury is less.
Personally, I use the salicylate-containing creams (Aspercreme, etal) on sore muscles/tendons/joints. It seems to work well for pain relief, and the localized anti-inflammatory effect seems to hasten healing. Just what I think is my experience :-). |
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| Thanks for the advice on the yoga wrists. So of my beginners are complaining of the upper body soreness in down dog. I am trying to work with with in cow and cat with correct form for upper body as well as the spine.
Thanks for the tips with the hands in plank and down dog. That will help me to help my class to strengthen in these poses.
Namate2
Edited by namaste2 2005-05-18 8:31 AM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | So now here are two more hand questions:
* Fingers spread far apart or kept together?
* Should the metacarpal-interphalangeal joints be pressed into the floor?
I've had different advice from different teachers on both points.
Thinking strictly of handstand, my own experience has been that the fingers
should be spread but not stretched and that the MCIP joints should not be pressed.
For the spreading, I find that keeping the fingers tight reduces my control and that
overspreading also reduces it. In all cases, the heel of the hand needs to be wide open.
For the MCIP joints, repeated pressure is irritating to the tendons of the fingers.
I prefer to keep the whole weight on the finger tips and the heel of the hand.
Since opinions seem to differ on this, I'd be really interested in reading what other
folks think.
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| Bay Guy :-)
John Friend likes "tiger paws," which shifts the weight forward, more onto the knuckles of the hand. I end up feeling weight on the perimeter of the hand, except for the arch of the wrist, and weight on the fingers.
I _think_ that concentrating on spreading the fingers wider than they want to go is extra work, in the Iyengar sense, but I've once again launched into my vast sea of ignorance :-).
The tiger paw thing raises the arch of the wrist, so that you could slide a pencil under the center of the wrist when in downdog. What I hear you recommending is that the whole heel (arch of the wrist?) be weight bearing. Is that right? What is your thinking on that?
Thanks!! |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | The arch at the base of the palm is one of the things I'm wondering about.
You certainly the pads to either side of it carrying most of the weight, and you
want to avoid compressing the area since so many tendons pass through it.
As I mentioned, I've gotten conflicting advice on spreading the fingers, so
I usually go with what gives me the most control and the least sense of
strain or compression.
Down dog is often used to teach hand position, and several people have mentioned
it to me as a comparison for handstand. I'm not quite sure of that comparison, however,
since handstand loads the fingers and base of the hand more vertically and much more
heavily. The fingertips have to do more work in handstand to provide stabilizing torque
(if you are not practicing at the wall).
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| Bay Guy, you're correct about overspreading the hands and finger working. At least in my experience.
"Tiger Paw" isn't necessarily what JF says, at least as far as I've heard, but his teachers have picked up on it. He'll say "work the fingers" more frequently.
This does not mean pressing the knuckles down. For many, this actually hyperextendes the finger joints. If you think of those hyper mobile people who can just bend their first finger joint? It's more that. "Tree frog" would be a closer descriptive.
Spread the hands comfortably, working the finger pads. The base knuckles should be firmly planted, but not over-pressed (if you can lift the fingers you're over pressing the heel of the hand and possibly those knuckles.) If you can work that first finger pad, including that of the thumb, you'll note a hollowing in the palm of the hand.
If you're feeling weight in the sides of the hand, you're rolling out and not working the thumb. Typical of people with tight shoulders (I'm here to tell 'ya!)
You're comparison to the handstand hands is a better idea of what someone should be doing in down dog or other weight bearing asana such as Vasisthasana and other arm balances. Purvotanasana is another, believe it or not. 
Hope this helps a bit? |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| The Iyengar perspective on the finger thing is that if we tell people to spread the fingers comfortably. they don't spread them at all - heck, when I tell them to spread them well, half the time they don't do it! The arch of the wrist actually does have to lift up, the outer edges of the palm should all be working with the inner palm soft and pliable like (so I am told) the centre of a mountain goat's hoof. Each segment of the finger also needs to work but not in a hard way or as Christine says, so that the fingers actually bend backward (ick! that still give me the creeps!) Focusing on the base knuckle of the index finger and thumb is the best way to get students to start focusing on the right action and avoid injury and/or pain. The more subtle adjustments come when the basics have been learned. BKS could probably tell us which way theskiin of the hand should move and the correct colour and temperature of the fingernails. When I get into these kind of details in a pose I am extremely grateful he spent 70 years of his life (so far) figuring this stuff out so we don't have to reinvent the wheel - or th dog, for that matter! |
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| I think by the time to you get to down dog it's too late. You're just compensating for the damage you did in chattaranga and upward dog. And since 99% of your bodyweight in down dog is behind the hands you are going to have more weight in the heel of the hand no matter what you do. Of course, that is why it is easier to move the fingers and knuckles when in downdog. It's much harder to make the adjustments when you plank forward and the weight really is in the hands. You have to have to hands set before and during the rest of the vinyasa.
I'm not saying you shouldn't work on all the details given above. It's all very excellent advice. However, be mindful of the transitions into plank, chattaranga and upward dog. That's where the weight really shifts into the hands and the wrists take a beating.
Back to the original topic. Handstands are the best test for proper wrist and hand placement. Your hands are now your feet and have to support and balance you. Therefore proper alignment and adequate strength are absolutely a PRErequisite. Don't cut corners when it comes to alignment and strength in this regard.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Until you have strength in the wrist flexors, there will be no handstanding away
from the wall, even if you can hold it at the wall without trouble. Those fingers
are busy busy busy in handstand. Your whole level arm for holding the balance is
between fingertips and heel.
Since Guruji has been mentioned several times here, I'm going to refer to the
younger version of Guruji found in Light on Yoga. (This is a good time to
run and grab your copy). Look at how active his fingers are in the various
arm balances. See Plate 394 (Dwi Pada Sirsasana), 399 (Kasyapasana),
402-3 (Viswamitrasana), 409 (Bakasana), 419 (Kukkutasana), and 359 (Adho Mukha
Vrksasana). These are fully bent fingers. The MCIP joints are extended, and the
interphalangeal joints are flexed strongly. I don't think that the older Guruji has
changed this (although the highly extended lumbar spine in 359 is an obvious no-no).
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yoga wrists
