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| Hi,
I am a male in my mid 40s. I currently do weight training 2-3 times per week, and reality-based martial arts 2-3 times per week. I rest a day in between workouts (and weight train a muscle group only once per week). I normally have two full rest days per week.
I have a 'bad' back, and my muscles seem to 'pull' very easily. I have to be very careful, or I will pull my back muscles and not be able to do anything for weeks.
I have below average body fat and a good amount of muscle.
My questions are:
1). Can I do a stretching/flexibility routine in my condition and actually become significantly flexible? [I understand that each person has individual circumstances, but I wondered if there were examples of people in bad shape (back problems...) and non-flexible who became extremely flexible in their older years.]
I would like to be able to bend over and touch my forehead to my upper legs. If I try to bend over much now, my back will 'go out' and into spasms and pain.
I do a warm up before I do weights and simple stretching afterwards, and I do a warmup and stretch before martial arts. However, it's obviously not doing the trick.
2). Is there a routine that I can do to stretch and obtain flexibility that can be done in a reasonable amount of time at home? If so, please point me to specific instructions... I'm looking for expert information, as I don't have the time to read many books right now... [Also, how long would it take me (on average) to become significantly flexible, if I followed the plan accordingly?]
3). I've read that it is not good to stretch muscles prior to a weight training routine, rather to do so afterwards is better. What is your understand on this point?
Thank you very much. I look forward to your helpful replies.
JC
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| Hi JC,
You sound a lot like me. At 47, I'm a lifter and a habitual runner as well, both of which cause tight muscles. Shoulders and hamstrings, yikes. I'm not an expert by any means but I can offer some encouragment at least, and maybe a reality check. I could just barely touch the top of my arches with the tips of my fingers when I started yoga practice a couple years ago. Now I can place my palms flat on the floor in a forward bend. That's certainly a significant improvement but it wasn't attained casually. I practice 3-5 times a week, one or two of which are in class with a good teacher. My non-class sessions are part of my regular workout, e.g. pre running or post lifting. It's an investment in time but it has made vast improvements in my overall well being. My posture is better, my shoulders have opened up, my back is stronger and more balanced, not to mention lowered stress levels. I think you'll not really find a magic bullet here but maybe that's not actually what you need. Yoga is a practice, meaning it's something you need to work into your routine. Start slow and work your way up, just as you do in your lifting practice. Try not to be too goal oriented...easy to say ;-). It's a road you travel rather than a destination. Changes will be incremental but the long term effects will become evident in time. The main thing is to make a start and stick to it. I'd suggest taking a few classes and get a solid introduction to the practice. Regular classes may be something you'll want to continue but even if you don't do that, a few classes will show you the way forward and give you a jump start. Just as in lifting, technique is important. Tough to get that without some expert guidance. Books can be a good suppliment but will only take you so far. There's another thread here somewhere regarding useful books that you might want to look over.
Kevin |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
    
| JC - my initial reaction when I read posts like yours is to want to suggest you look into Pilates rather than yoga. It may fit into your workout routine better than yoga might. OTOH, the previous poster has given you some good insight about how yoga could help, assuming you find a knowledgable teacher. Let us know how it works out for you! |
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| Now now, Glenda dear, you are not maybe trying to drive people away from yoga in order to keep it a secret of our little elitist society, are you? 
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| Elitist society? How the He11 could that be Stefan--you and I are in it! You know what Groucho Marx said: "I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members."
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
|  Well, I am just in a bit of a "mood" about yoga being a workout, I think. Yes, I realize that many people start with that mindset and move on to a fuller understanding of yoga but maybe if what people want is a set of exercises, we should send them to someone who thinks that way... Seems we have had a lot of requests for "prescriptive" yoga. "Give me 5 poses that will make me stronger/faster/more flexible/lose weight/etc. etc. etc."  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
No, I'm with you Glenda. Every now and then these discussions about
whether yoga is "cardio" "strengthio" "flexio" "dietio" "antichristio" and so on
seem to me to be missing the point. Yoga is what it is. It doesn't have
to be equivalent to or better or worse than something else.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Yeah - the "get fit for spring" gang seems to be even bigger than the new year's resolution group was this year. A good crop! |
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| jc05 - 2005-03-27 2:28 PM
1). Can I do a stretching/flexibility routine in my condition and actually become significantly flexible? [I understand that each person has individual circumstances, but I wondered if there were examples of people in bad shape (back problems...) and non-flexible who became extremely flexible in their older years.]
jc, I am a 45 year old woman with a fourth degree black belt. I had scoliosis and didn't even know it until my back gave out on me when I was about 41. Severe back pain and constant back "crises" forced me to retire from martial arts. On the advice of friends, I started doing Power Yoga once a week last June. It was really hard on my joints, so this past December I moved to Bikram.
After a year when I spent 4,000 dollars on different back remedies because my back went out three separate times (and each time caused me to spend a week lying flat on the floor), yoga gave me a lot of relief, even Power Yoga, which was pretty hard on my knees.
My return to flexibility has been extremely slow, partly because I was so fearful of doing anything at all. But since starting yoga, my back has never gone out, though I am still troubled with chronic (rather than acute) back pain.
I try to do Bikram five times a week (started with three times a week). I can say that my flexibility has improved. I cannot say I have made huge, tremendous gains in flexibility, but I would expect that such gains will take at least a year or two of regular, consistent practice.
However, I have started practicing my basic kicks again (just 4 sets of ten, once a week). I have become at least that flexible.
But I tried what you tried: stretching exercises between sets and before and after class to stay flexible and it didn't work for me. Each Bikram class is 90 minutes long, and that's as long as it takes. I have faced the facts: I am now middle aged, and flexibility will be a challenge, so doing yoga will now take up a significant amount of my training time, and I will add on martial arts, and eventually weight lifting (Lord willing), as my flexibility continues to improve. But I realize that the diligent practice of yoga from now on will be the core of my training. And it looks like daily sessions will be 90 minutes.
I miss the glory days of leaping, turning in the air, and smashing into a heavy bag. But after so many troubles with my back and three years of doing almost no exercise, I am glad to do yoga and make these first steps towards recovering the practice and discipline of martial arts that has always been a big part of my life. The fancy kicks will probably never be a part of my trainign again, but after so much inactivity, even those basic kicks feel pretty good!
Best wishes to you. I think you can get flexibility, but you will have to set realistic goals and be patient.
Jeri |
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Expert Yogi
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| Jeri - isn't it amazing how our bodies can carry us for 40 years without giving clues to the odd things like curved backs etc.? I have a student right now in his late teens/early 20s who has what looks to me to be a huge scoliosis but it so far hasn't given him a moment of trouble. And yet others with seemingly small problems have nothing but trouble. I have very small bunions on my feet but they KILL if I wear the wrong shoes - even flats. Others have positively deformed feet and have no pain. The longer I practice and especially teach, the more wonderment I have for the capacity of the human body! A couple of resources for you - Back Care Basics by Mary Pullig Schatz is a VERY good book that is helpful for all kinds of back issues. There is also a DVD (yes, I am suggesting a DVD! They can supplement a good program done in class) that I can't find on this site but it is specifically geared to scoliosis and it is advertised in the mainstream yoga mags. I have heard it is very good as well.
BTW Jeri - congrats on the healthier back! 
Edited by tourist 2005-03-29 10:24 AM
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| JC
Yoga teaches us several things. Two very important things are patience and balance. If you really want to become more flexible you can do so if you practice regularly and are very patient. If you want a quick fix, you will get frustrated or injured.
Balance is another thing to think about. In the real world being strong is not enough, it needs to be balanced with flexibility. A pitcher needs flexible shoulders to increase his range of motion. With a greater ROM he can exert a force on the ball for a longer period of time thus increasing the speed of the pitch. Working one body part at a time is a recipe for imbalance as well it teaches you to favor certain parts and work them harder and not work other parts as much. If you start to view the body as one piece, as a whole you start to connect different parts and how they all work together.
I also have a bad back and I see how it effects every part of my life...not just my back. I am constantly taking stock of my feet, my shoulders, my hips, my abs, my neck and figuring out how they all have a part to play in rehabing my back.
So my advice finally is to get yourself into a yoga class and start working your whole body in balance, slowly and patiently.
Also consider doing deadlifts and overhead squats to strengthen your whole body and back. |
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| Everyone makes excellent points here!
Something else to consider, is that a regular yoga practice trains your body to recognize and do other activities with better posture and alignment. Perhaps your back would not go out so easily if you were able to use your yoga knowledge to alter your stance when doing all the other things you enjoy.
But, to enjoy the benefits you must make the investment. If you only do one pose per day for 5 minutes, you will get the benefits of one 5-minute pose. To get the effects you desire will require more time and energy, so you will have to decide whether you're ready to commit that. Yoga really isn't a "quick fix." But the fact that it's still around after 5,000 years must mean it's working for somebody! |
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| tourist - 2005-03-29 10:23 AM
A couple of resources for you - Back Care Basics by Mary Pullig Schatz is a VERY good book that is helpful for all kinds of back issues. There is also a DVD (yes, I am suggesting a DVD! They can supplement a good program done in class ) that I can't find on this site but it is specifically geared to scoliosis and it is advertised in the mainstream yoga mags. I have heard it is very good as well.
BTW Jeri - congrats on the healthier back!
Thanks tourist! I appreciate the heads up. I will add the book/DVD to my wish list. I appreciate the tip, and the congratulations. I really want to return to the martial arts, even at a reduced level of practice.
Best wishes,
Jeri |
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Expert Yogi
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| >>overhead squats<<
I'm sure this isn't what it sounds like but it made me laugh anyway I think we are back to virasana in sirsasana! Or maybe malasana in sirsasana  |
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| tourist - 2005-03-29 7:58 PM
>>overhead squats<<
I'm sure this isn't what it sounds like but it made me laugh anyway I think we are back to virasana in sirsasana! Or maybe malasana in sirsasana
The Squat:
You stand with feet shoulder width apart and bend your knees until your butt is by your ankles (Yes bend your knees past 90 degrees and your thighs below parallel!!!!) then stand back up that's an "Air Squat". You can increase the difficulty by adding weight. You can use a barbell resting across the back of your shoulders "back squats". Hold the barbell across the front of the shoulders "front squats." You can hold the barbell overhead "overhead squats."
Squats are consider by many in the strength community (not to be confused with the bodybuilding community) to be the king of all exercises.
Overhead squats require a lot of flexibility in the hips, back and shoulders. They are a killer for the abs as well. Imagine utkatasana with a loaded barbell in your hands. Being able to stabalize a heavy weight overhead while you do your squats will make you extremely strong. It requires you to use all your focus and attention and use every part of your body. An excellent article on the Overhead Squat: http://danjohn.org/overhead.html
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> 40 & want to become flexible
