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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
  
Location: A Blue State | Many religions seem to spend a great deal of time on the subject
of sexuality and reproduction. Rules about birth control, fornication,
and even the admissibility of particular sexual practices are occasionally
prescribed by the leaders of religious groups.
What does yoga have say about this subject? We have the general principle
of continence, or bramacharya, which instructs us not to wallow in sexual desire
or to be guided by it. Does yoga go further?
I have been particularly distressed over the years by some religions that
tell you not to use birth control (and certainly not to have abortions) while
at the same time handing out starchy and unrealistic dictates about never
having sex except when married and, even then, only for the particular purpose
of procreation.
Am I lost, or is it absolutely normal to engage in sex for purposes other than
making a baby? Can we take seriously any religion that tells us otherwise?
Edited by Bay Guy 2005-04-08 11:05 PM
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| Dear Bay Guy:
Jee you are talking a big topic. But, let me at least start somewhere.
Sex which is supposed to culminate in Intercourse is definitely meant for procreation. Because that is the only way procreation occurs in the nature, except modern methods which are not the natural means. So, procreation is definite.
Now, during the course of intercourse, and also all the processes leading towards it, certain physical and mental processes go on. They are mostly pleasing to the mind. That is pleasure is definite.
When this pleasure is given all the importance, and sex is assumed as a means of pleasure, it causes a problem. To give another example, eating food definitely gives pleasure. But, when one eats only or mainly for pleasure it causes problems.
Now, additionally, when sexual tendency is brought under one's control, it gives power. brahmacharyaad veeryalaabhah... Shree Patanjali. This power can be further used for meditation and spiritual practice.
The last paragraph applies only the Human Beings. And, also the one previous to it.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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| Ive been thinking about this lately as well. I can see all sides and POV. And, I have my own as well, but not so clearly defined.. This is a big question.
Well, above all, no matter what your take, I think it must be done balanced. I think when one goes out looking for it, searching and 'needing' to fullfill it to feel satisfied (porn, promiscuity, etc) then this is bad and harmful. Harmful to the mind, the body (STD's, etc) harmful to relationship (temptation, desire) and much more. But, if sex is balanced in the life and doesnt run or control a person, then it has a place.
Im interested to see wheat others have to say. |
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| Being some kind of human myself, please let me say something on that topic. Sex is, quite honestly, not a major factor in the relationship of Mrs Afroyogi and me. We've got enough other problems and pleasures much more important than that. But although we decided for many reasons not to have kids, we like to have sex nevertheless. So in our case it's purely for the pleasure factor, not procreation. I don't want anyone to interfere with that, giving us guilty feelings or trying to forbid it. That's only one of the many issues I have with the catholic church. They want to mess with me, so I take the freedom just not to care about anything the pope and his gang are trying to dictate our lifestyle. They can go straight to hell!  See, hell wasn't my invention, so I'm not in any danger to end up there, am I?  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
 
| >>certain physical and mental processes go on. They are mostly pleasing to the mind. That is pleasure is definite.
When this pleasure is given all the importance, and sex is assumed as a means of pleasure, it causes a problem. <<
I think this is an important distinction between the "yogic" philosophy and the more repressive "western" (for lack of a better description) philosophy. The west seems to set up impossible standards of conduct and ladle out guilt in massive doses for every misstep where the east assumes people will act in normal, human ways and suggest that we all just try to behave ourselves most of the time. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
I've often thought of it as a process of controlling people.
First you set up the impossible standards, then when people
fail to meet them, you control the administration of absolution.
Pretty good way to make buck, no?
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| And, also standards set by those who themselves do not meet them, and even go to the extent of child abuse.
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| Great subject !!
I believe that one of the most important, if not _the_ most important aspect of sex is that it tends to unify two people. Many people have completely lost track of that in a world of ultra-casual sex.
Sure, sex is a pretty good way to make babies, and sex is almost as much fun a yoga (hey, I'm not 45 any more :-), but I think that in a marriage, or other monogamous & committed relationship, it is this unitive property of sex that is the most wonderful and the most powerfully life-changing.
And it is because of this unitive property that I think that casual sex is so destructive to the human spirit. To me it is a tragedy when someone shares themself sexually - one of their deepest intimacies - with a stranger. Because the union happens, and when you tear yourselves apart, there is great sadness, a sadness made worse by the breaking of the sexual union.
Similarly, I think that the sexual union increases the strength of marriage, which I think is the ideal state for people. Many forces tend to tear our marriages apart, and the physical sharing of love, with the deeper spiritual and emotional union that occurs at the same time, is one of the few and precious things that help us stand fast with one another.
Is this an aspect of sex that is taught in Eastern religions or philosophies?
Cheers....
Edited by elson 2005-04-22 2:34 AM
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| YES.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | I guess that there's a whole range of sex that goes between "casual" sex and
sex in marriage. For example: my wife and I had sex before we were married.
Often.  And it wasn't casual at all.
At the same time, I've never cheated on my wife, in 20 years, and I don't suppose that
I ever will. Having a fling on the side would just bring a lot of complications that far
outweigh a few minutes of fun. If I instead simply make friends with other women,
I can still enjoy their company and I can even talk to my wife about them. Nothing shameful,
no sneaking around, no need to worry about sex at all.
To add to Stefan's comment, sex is certainly not the basis of my relationship with my wife.
It's more like something we can do when the spirit moves us. Or we can just talk about
whatever we want to talk about....it's just a different way to interact.
Yogic philosophy tells us not to wallow in sex, either within marriage or outside of it. It is
another area in which we can overindulge and form attachments that simply bind us
to our kleshas. Who said it --- "In all things, moderation" ... ?
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| Hello,
In general, in yoga and also in tantra, the idea is not to be in favour of sex or against it, but to be beyond it. In most religions the priests are against sex and when you are against something, you cannot be beyond it. A true brahmacari shouldn't be condemning sex all the time, and shouldn't really be disgusted by it - aversion is just another manifestation of attachment. As such, in most other religions the idea is that you should be disgusted by sex, lust, etc... but in yoga philosophy you should just be unconcerned about it.
The other difference is that brahmacari is prescribed for a yogi but not for everyone. There is a huge difference because someone who meditates, all things equal, will find it much much easier to be celibate naturally. Proper abstinence without supression actually becomes a possible reality for someone who is engaging in contemplative activity, whereas for other people its close to impossible.
For normal householder it seems to be generally acknowledged by the social standards that sexual desire is a good thing (kama is also a goal in life in the wider tradition) as long as it improves peace and hapiness in the house and lessens the chance of adultery. This in fact would be the purpose of a text such as the Kamasutra, not something to do with spirituality but to make the household function better. People can behave much more ethically when they don't have millions of repressed desires,
Regards. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | So much good sense in that:
"aversion is just another manifestation of attachment" ... sums up prudishness pretty well, no?
"People can behave much more ethically when they don't have millions of repressed desires"
...something they should inscribe in the Halls of Congress.... |
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| Bay Guy - 2005-04-23 9:33 PM
Who said it --- "In all things, moderation" ... ?
Or better yet, "even moderation needs to be done in moderation."
unfortunately, I really dont have a view on this, I guess im more like, if someone wants to go screw up their lives by whoring themselves on friday nights, then fine its their choice, and their reprecussions, of course this gets messy if a child is made *ahem* "One night of pleasure, NINE MONTHS of pain." SO even in that regards the whole karmic wheel is spinning. ::shruggs:: i dunno, ask me again when i feel more thoughtful.... |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | Sideshow, I'm going to stretch a bit and draw some conclusions from your post:
* you are male
* you are not a parent
If you had had a baby yourself, you wouldn't speak of "nine months of pain".
Having seen my wife through the birth of our children, having held her hand
while she was in labour, and having held our children immediately upon their
birth, I can tell you that your characterization of childbirth is lost in space.
And, if you had kids, you would know that the first nine months is just the easy
part. There are another 20 years that follow, and they can be more than a bit
difficult -- especially in comparison to pregnancy.
All I'll say about the word "whoring" is that it's a typical male attack on women
who exert control of their own sexuality.... |
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| BG,
Did you tell your wife that you called the first 9 months the easy part?
I agree with your general point, but after my wife spent 32 hours in labor with the first one and a c-section with the second one, I don't make the mistake of calling it easy  .
Then again, getting my 5 year old to eat vegetables makes Vrschikasana look easy!
(no, I can't really do vrschikasana)
And I agree with you about the absurd view of sex that most mainstream religions espouse. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | Mitch --- If your kid is only five, you just wait until they get to middle school!  |
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| I can't even think about middle school. He's starting kindergarden in September and I can't believe it's already time for "big boy" school. |
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Yoga and Sexuality
