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| I recently went to a new massage therapist/yoga instructor and have since quit going because.....
After I proudly told her I did Bikram Yoga everyday she said....Wow, that's intense. All that heat will deplete your chi (?) and it's basically the McDonalds of Yoga.
Why do some people have such a negative opinion of Bikram Yoga? It's the best thing I ever did for myself. Isn't all Yoga good?
I hope I don't regret starting this thread. 
Edited by gainup 2005-04-11 11:54 PM
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| Everybody seems to have an opinion on Bikram yoga--some from what they've read and heard and some from personal experience. Kinda like cars I think. Ever mention to somebody in passing that you're thinking of buying a car? Ach du lieber! Then you hear all about it--"Don't get a Ford--I had a friend who..." or "Get a Chevy--never had any problems with mine..." You'll probably get similar reactions on other types of yoga, not just Bikram. I started out practicing Bikram having not heard anything bad about it. Seemed it was something I would enjoy and there was no chanting, insense or other "freakiness" associated with it. After a year though, through personal experience, I don't practice it anymore. However, I won't tell you NOT to--you enjoy it so go for it. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 338
 
| I would ask her about her experience iwth Bikram. It is really irritating for people to criticize
something they have only heard about. do you feel your chi is depleted? Tell her your experience.
I have had similar doubts inspired by information ( particularly from this board) but its important for everyone to decide for themselves. Some of the criticisms mentioned by people on this board speak of a lack of understanding of posture on the part of Bikram instructors. Do you feel that your instructor corrects alignment mistakes that you are making? That seems to be the major valid criticism of some Bikram classes in my mind.
Otherwise stay hydrated and pay attention to how you feel. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hey GoGirl,
Well, I'm not a Bikram Basher. I love Bikram and the practice. If you read between the lines on the board, actually, the teacher who gets bashed the most is usually the BEST!! Why do you ask?? Because, the teacher that is hated the most is the one who has hit a nerve and a place where MOST people refuse to visit. Enlightenment ain't easy and is sometimes painful when we take a close look at it, its like peeling an onion, layers and layers of BS to get to the core. I think Bikram falls into the category of being disliked and bashed - bigtime. I think its also funny that Americans have the "give it to me nice and easy" attitude and think that in order to be a Yoga teacher that you have to meet a certain criteria that reminds you of Sunday School or Bible Study Class. I also feel that some "other" yoga type instructors from India had a way of presenting Yoga to these other types of people and is the way they have accepted their Yoga practice to be - which is okay....However, it is also okay for Bikram too...even his lawsuit and copyright is correct, afterall this is America and he is operating his business. Now, where do we find the mutual respect so that everybody is happy?? I could criticize some of the Iyengar people that I know, but what's the point. Look at it this way, we Bikramites are just stronger, we can take the heat..after all Bikram means Famous and we KNOW what happens to famous people now don't we, LOL!! It comes with the territory  |
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| Gainup:
A blanket statement that your chi(qi/prana) is depleted by the practice of the Bikram method is nonsense. If you feel good, energized, at peace and all the other good things that come with the practice of yoga then your pranic flow is what it is supposed to be.
Bikram's yoga method is based on the solid, respected lineage of Bishnu Ghosh and Paramahamsa Yogananda. The heat is of course his "innovation" and the sequence his creation. Unfortunately it is diffficult to separate the man from the method so some people like to trash the yoga along with the man. Of couse, Bikram hasn't helped himself either by some of his outrageous statements and his criticisms of other yoga styles. Not that he cares, which is what gets his critics even madder.
If Bikram method works for you, care a hoot about what others think.
Cyndi, it's good to know Bikram has an ardent supporter in his copyright enforcement crusade. When Bishnu Ghosh sent a young Bikram to teach and spread the message of yoga, I don't think that his instructions included the need to create a franchising empire. I would think a fleet of Rolls royces and Bentleys would suffice. When Paramahamsa Yogananda came to the US in the early 1900's with the theory and technique of Kriya yoga, his instructions were free.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | HotYogi - 2005-04-12 11:49 AM
Cyndi, it's good to know Bikram has an ardent supporter in his copyright enforcement crusade. When Bishnu Ghosh sent a young Bikram to teach and spread the message of yoga, I don't think that his instructions included the need to create a franchising empire. I would think a fleet of Rolls royces and Bentleys would suffice. When Paramahamsa Yogananda came to the US in the early 1900's with the theory and technique of Kriya yoga, his instructions were free.
Dear Hot Yogi,
How in the heck would you know what Bishnu Ghosh would feel about about Bikram?? Have you ever asked him?? I personally feel that Bishnu Ghosh would be rather pleased that Bikram has influenced soo many American and Other's lives. Perhaps this is Bikram's reward..it is really none of our business. Just because Yogananda had his method and it was free, why do feel Bikram should do the same??? That is my point in my previous statement about how everyone has this idea about what Yoga should be. It is so ridiculous. Besides, it is not that I am an ardent supporter of Bikram per se, it is that I am an ardent supporter of ANYONE and the LAWS concerning operating a Corporation in America. Since I have my own Corporation I understand the value of the legalities, Bikram has that right too! I actually respect his smart business sense. I think if half the people operating a YOGA business had some basic business knowledge, they wouldn't be complaining about being poor and not making any money or a living...that goes for Bikrams and Non-Bikram type yoga studios. |
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| Cyndi - 2005-04-12 9:15 AM
Because, the teacher that is hated the most is the one who has hit a nerve and a place where MOST people refuse to visit. Enlightenment ain't easy and is sometimes painful when we take a close look at it, its like peeling an onion, layers and layers of BS to get to the core.
Cyndi : I liked what you had to say. What is the nerve that Bikram hits that peope refuse to see? |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | innerline - 2005-04-12 12:45 PM
Cyndi - 2005-04-12 9:15 AM
Because, the teacher that is hated the most is the one who has hit a nerve and a place where MOST people refuse to visit. Enlightenment ain't easy and is sometimes painful when we take a close look at it, its like peeling an onion, layers and layers of BS to get to the core.
Cyndi : I liked what you had to say. What is the nerve that Bikram hits that peope refuse to see?
The *nerve* that I referred to can be lots of things and every person has a different nerve if you will. The main nerve I am referring to is the EGO Nerve, which is one that we all have to face, sooner or later if we want to be successful. The Ego comes in many forms, if you have a conflict that hasn't been resolved, things like your judgements (about right or wrong doing) and conflicts about past, present or future events..that is your Ego not allowing you live in the present moment. Bikram challenges us in that regard in so many ways. I get challenged just by hanging out with Tibetans and Nepalis people and their different culture. Look at how many people judge Bikram and want to dictate his style of yoga...I think its funny as H&*l that some of the criticizers cannot grasp this concept, but yet, they go around acting like they are so good and spiritual at their yoga practice that they learned from other yoga teachers that were not like Bikram...like there is no difference. This is America and we are treading on new soil where yoga is concerned...and who says you can't practice the way Bikram has taught and who in their right mind can sit and say Bikram is wrong??? Based on what?? The life and teachings in India?? If I wanted that, I would go to India. If I want spirituality, I don't have to go to India, there are plenty of temples and Ashrams here in the USA. Well, we are not in India, we are in America and this is the American life and Bikram is teaching an American audience. Like, Get over it already. |
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| Cyndi - 2005-04-12 11:00 AM
Look at how many people judge Bikram and want to dictate his style of yoga...I think its funny as H&*l that some of the criticizers cannot grasp this concept, but yet, they go around acting like they are so good and spiritual at their yoga practice that they learned from other yoga teachers that were not like Bikram...like there is no difference. This is America and we are treading on new soil where yoga is concerned...and who says you can't practice the way Bikram has taught and who in their right mind can sit and say Bikram is wrong??? Based on what?? The life and teachings in India?? .
Cyndi: When you say "criticizers cannot grasp this concept" I do not know what concept you mean. I am confused by this whole statement, "that they learned from other yoga teachers that were not like Bikram...like there is no difference". When you say "Based on what??" I can think of alot of things to base a reflection, judgement, or concept on, whether it is the truth is a whole other thing. Are you upset people have the right to make their own judgement. Do you judge ,judging?
Please clarify your statements.
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| Hi GoGirl,
Thanks for your input. She doesn't teach Bikram and I didn't really get into it about why she doesn't like it, except to say the heat depleates your chi. I can't say if she has or hasen't done Bikram, she does teach other types of yoga.
My teacher on the other hand is fabulous. I went on my own, but she has kept me there. She keeps your motivated, helps a lot with the poses (which I love) and really enjoys her students. She has spent a lot of time with me after class working on postures. We have another teacher part time who is also wonderful.
All the perspectives are interesting on this forum and I enjoy reading all of them. I really feel my Chi is doing just fine. |
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| Interesting logic. Does that mean Pres. Bush is the best US president since he gets bashed all the time? He must be hitting nerves left and right.
Anyhoo, interesting initial comment regarding qi (sorry I'm used to spelling it that way). According to my Oriental Medicine (acupuncture) teachers you can potentially damage your qi by talking about your job or work while eating. Of course you can damage or drain your energy with Bikram yoga. I think if you're doing Bikram regularly you're basically an athlete and you should treat yourself like an athlete. Take extra vitamins, eat well, get to bed at a decent hour and sleep for 7 - 9 hours (that would be nice, huh!). FYI - too much work, sex, booze/pot/OTC drugs can drain your energy. So can worrying too much. I think doing Bikram is the least of anyone's problems. Feel better now? fifi, O.M.D. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | innerline - 2005-04-12 2:10 PM
Cyndi: When you say "criticizers cannot grasp this concept" I do not know what concept you mean. I am confused by this whole statement, "that they learned from other yoga teachers that were not like Bikram...like there is no difference". When you say "Based on what??" I can think of alot of things to base a reflection, judgement, or concept on, whether it is the truth is a whole other thing. Are you upset people have the right to make their own judgement. Do you judge ,judging?
Please clarify your statements.
Innerline,
The concept I was referring to was the concept of being different people, different styles, different period and the basic concept that everyone is entitled to be who they are, including Bikram. I feel that most of the people that criticize Bikram are ones that have or had major CONFLICTS and JUDGEMENTS about Bikram and how *they* think a teacher should be, and because they want to dominate and run the show thinking they know better intellectually due to reading or learning someone else's style or whatever..this is the nonsense I'm talking about.
A good example..Just because you learned alignment from Iyengar, doesn't mean Bikram's method is wrong and it doesn't mean alignment is proper for every body. I really don't like it at all when a teacher comes along in class and tries to correct my alignment by pushing me into the asana further or pushing me further than I want to go...I don't think they know my body well enough to make that decision...however, when I am shown how to do the asana's and have read the material, I align myself and if I need help from a teacher, I will ask for it. I don't need an expert Iyengar person to tell me what is wrong with me, I am in touch with my body and if I've gotten this far in my practice, I should know what I need to do to get into the asana properly. and I KNOW how to ask for help when I need it. I use my own intellect and understanding from what I've learned because that is what practicing Yoga is all about...you WILL get to a point where you can figure this out yourself, I am at that point. After reading this forum, I doubt I will ever step foot in an American Yoga Studio ever again...because this is not what I want from my practice and I think the American Yoga teachers OVER analyze everything...too much information. I guess I am more comfortable with a Hindu Guru, because this has never been a problem for me when it comes from an authentic source or I don't mean to offend, but American Yoga teachers really don't understand me. I have this same problem when it comes to dealing with Tibetans regarding Buddhism or Chinese Doctors regarding TCM - I will NEVER let an American touch me with a needle.
As for President Bush...well, I wasn't referring to Presidents or Government Leaders...I was referring to a Yoga Master/Teacher - BIG difference...wouldn't even put it in the same category or on the same level.
Anyway, I really don't want to be sucked into this conversation much longer and this is really about all I have to say on the matter. As far as judging, judging...No, just an observation. Judging in my definition means to judge and then hold it in. I simply make an observation and then let it go. I guess it's hard to tell when it's in writing huh?? Cya later,
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| sorry to hear that, Cyndi...all of the Chinese, Japanese and Korean OMDs/acupuncturists licensed in the US (at least CA and NV) consider themselves to be Americans. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
 
| >>I don't need an expert Iyengar person to tell me what is wrong with me,.........I guess I am more comfortable with a Hindu Guru,<<
Just for the record - BKS Iyengar is a "Hindu guru" and he WOULD adjust your pose, whether you asked him to or not. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | tourist - 2005-04-12 11:42 PM
>>I don't need an expert Iyengar person to tell me what is wrong with me,.........I guess I am more comfortable with a Hindu Guru,<<
Just for the record - BKS Iyengar is a "Hindu guru" and he WOULD adjust your pose, whether you asked him to or not.
See, this is exactly what I am talking about with Americans...anything someone says you nitpick everything to DEATH!! You do the same thing with your teachers...I shutter to think what would happen if Mr. Iyengar was caught in the news with something you didn't like or did something you felt was bad..he would be on your *list* too. I give up. For the record, if Mr. Iyengar was to adjust my pose, I would not mind at all, I would be honored. It's the American teachers that I don't want to touch me..period. Especially the ones who think they are physic and know my physical body..are really full of BS!!
Edited by Cyndi 2005-04-13 7:26 AM
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| Cyndi - 2005-04-13 7:26 AM
See, this is exactly what I am talking about with Americans...anything someone says you nitpick everything to DEATH!! You do the same thing with your teachers...
Now this American is going to nitpick. YOU yourself are American, no? Your statement makes a clear delineation of the "us" and the "them" and the differences that you wrote of in an earlier post. I thought yoga was about eliminating some of that. Of course, we're all at different places in our practice, and that may be where you are right now. (And no, I'm not saying that I am 'better" or more advanced - lord knows I have my areas to work on). Just found it interesting that for all the talk about being accepting and one with it all that you would work so hard to set yourself apart.
Oh, and by the way, Tourist is Canadian. Are they nitpickers too? |
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| HotYogi - 2005-04-12 11:49 AM
Cyndi, it's good to know Bikram has an ardent supporter in his copyright enforcement crusade. When Bishnu Ghosh sent a young Bikram to teach and spread the message of yoga, I don't think that his instructions included the need to create a franchising empire. I would think a fleet of Rolls royces and Bentleys would suffice. When Paramahamsa Yogananda came to the US in the early 1900's with the theory and technique of Kriya yoga, his instructions were free.
I've heard Bikram say that he made a promise to Bishnu Ghosh to teach yoga to as many people in the world as possible. I think it's hardly arguable that Bikram is creating one of the most widely know "brands" of yoga in the world.
As for the "fleet of Rolls royces"... While it's probably true that Bikram makes a lot of money from his studio and teacher training program, many people are unaware that he also owns a luxury car business. I don't know specifics but I believe it's an auto repair shop that specializes in rare and luxury vehicles. Frankly, I take his many public statements about his car fetish in the same light as the "two megaton atomic balls" statements, neither of which offend my sensibilities, and neither of which has anything to do with the yoga he teaches (aside from helping to attract attention for the business of it).
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| Bikram is such a larger than life character that provokes strong opinions that his yoga gets a reputation. I've never done Bikram yoga, but know poeple that have and love it. Personally, I won't touch anything with Bikram's name on it. I read the article in Mother Jones and was exremely turned off by his blatant arrogrance. I put him in the same category as all those flashy TV-evangelists selling religion. He's pretty much the opposite of what I look for in yoga. However, my boyfriend LOVED the article. He'd actually break his "no-yoga" rule for the chance to the take a class with him because he "respected the man's style."
That said, I don't think it matters what style of yoga you do. Only that you found what makes you feel happy doing.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Cyndi - Yoga IS uncomfortable, it is about challenging your perceptions and being flexible in body AND mind. This process continues as long as we draw breath. It does not stop when we feel we have learned "enough" and are at a more enlightened place in our lives. There are a few things we can figure out fully and stay with for the rest of our lives but they unfortunately seem to moslty be in the realm of making a perfect cup of tea or getting enough discipline to practic regularly or get our taxes done on time EVERY year. The rest of life is too messy and too unpredicatble for that. Once you get into the realm of ideas and attitudes, getting stuck in one mindset and refusing to consider alternatives, even for a moment to consider another's point of view, you are closing yourself off to growth.
And by the way, I am not the kind of person who would purposely provoke and irritate someone just to get a reaction for my own entertainment. I've seen that done and I find it is cruel and immature. OTOH, sometimes it is just so d@mn EASY it is irresistable!  |
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| Cyndi:
Your post reminds me of the Donna Chang episode of Seinfeld where George's mom is really psyched and pumped up because she is getting sage advice from a Confuscious spouting Donna Chang as she believes she is Chinese. She even talks George's mom from leaving his dad. When she meets her finally and finds out she is all blonde and WASPy, she says "You're not Chinese, now this changes everything" and the divorce is back on.
If everything else being the same but if Bikram were American, would you still follow his method. Incidentally. some of the most innovative and self aware yoga teachers are right here in the US who have spent years training in India but are not caught up in the gender/caste politics of India. |
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| Cyndi: What ever you resist persists. Step in dodie, dodie sticks to you. Resist BS and BS sticks to you. |
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| HotYogi,
I liked your Seinfeld analogy, I actually define my life by Seinfeld episodes. Is that a bad thing? |
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| Gracie:
Look deep into the Seinfeld Show and ye shall find the meaning of life.
I agree with you, there's probably a hilarious episode corresponding to a a lot of routine real-life situations.
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| gainup - 2005-04-12 3:07 PM
Hi GoGirl,
Thanks for your input. She doesn't teach Bikram and I didn't really get into it about why she doesn't like it, except to say the heat depleates your chi. I can't say if she has or hasen't done Bikram, she does teach other types of yoga.
My teacher on the other hand is fabulous. I went on my own, but she has kept me there. She keeps your motivated, helps a lot with the poses (which I love) and really enjoys her students. She has spent a lot of time with me after class working on postures. We have another teacher part time who is also wonderful.
All the perspectives are interesting on this forum and I enjoy reading all of them. I really feel my Chi is doing just fine.
I'm really glad you have the experience of having excellent Bikram teachers. After reading Bikram's beginning yoga book I'm convinced that he absolutely loves to knock people out of complacency. He actually relishes being controversal. He should be taken a little less seriously.
It apparently is the nature of the Bikram beast. I went to an Anusara workshop this weekend, did we debate about Anusara yoga vs Iyengar or Ashtanga? No. Any debate was about Bikram. Sometimes about the man, but since this group is so positive about yoga. it was more about the limited number of poses and working out in that blasted heat. 
Edited by MrD 2005-04-13 8:02 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 338
| Cindy,
Are you American. I have noticed a decidedly unamerican bias in your postings. Without much provocation you will go on a rant defending bikram, the man. I really don't give a #### about Bikram the man.
However, my yoga practice is VERY important to me. I need all the help I can get. I like Bikram
classes and generally I have found the instructors to be caring people who try and help me to deepen my practice. I wonder if more knowledge of mechanics(body) would be helpful to some instructors. I don't know if Iyenger teachers have more knowledge, but it has been mentioned on this board that other yoga strles focus on alignment. This matters when you have a special
condition or when you develop an injury. I am glad you are so intuitive regarding your body. Most of us are not, we go to class to have someone who knows MORE help us. Also, its hard to see yourself in yoga poses ( even with a mirror). When someone makes a criticism of Bikram
I feel like there is probably a grain of truth in it. I think, for example, that somones chi is probably fine after Bikram, but I have been wasted and almost sick after a "too hot" class.
Hydration is important and sometimes, leaving hte class is important.
Unfortunately just because its Bikram doesn't mean its good.... or bad.
anyway.... that's my two cents. |
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Bikram thrashing
