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| Hi everyone,
I wanted to open a discussion about Virasana...it is a posture that I really don't like as I find it hard on my knees. I am very aware that the knees should be kept 'square on' as the joint can be damaged otherwise....it is fine if I just sit on my heels but once I go towards taking the feet apart, moving the calf muscles out of the way and sitting between the feet (padding/blocks in use!!) I can really feel it on my knees. I was talking to one of my students who is a physiotherapist and she said it is a bit of a dodgy posture for the knees if they are allowed to twist....all very well for the experienced 'body aware' yogi but dangerous for beginners... There is a part of me that thinks..."Virasana, what's the point?"  |
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| My 6 year old daughter sits like this at dinner ~ on a hard, kitchen chair no less. I look at her and think, "How does she DO that for so long?!"  |
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| I see alot of kids sitting like that, too and have a vague recollection of sitting in it myself a LONG time ago. But it seems that about the time we move to chairs that we abandon sitting like that "for fun" or we sit "indian-style"...I even remember in elementary school being TOLD to sit "indian-style". I have friend who doesn't do any yoga, but naturally sits on the floor easily in virasana. I asked him about it and he shrugged it off as "i've always sat this way." He somehow never "unlearned."
You know thinking about it "Indian-style" is not a very politcally correct term, is it? Is it even still called that?
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| My daughter who is in kindergarten apparently learned it as sitting:
"criss cross applesauce"
now isnt that precious? even more precious when she came home that day asking everyone to sit that way. |
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| I think it is still called "indian style" regardless of it's political correctness - it's one of the last vestiges of bygone days...Though I'm sure it will be embroiled in controversy one of these days....
Virasana can be uncomfotable, but I've never felt it in the knees. For me it's more in the ankles and tops of the feet. OUCH! |
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| virasana is not "Indian style".
virasana is "hero's pose"
http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/490_1.cfm
Indian style is "easy pose" though i don't know the Sanskrit.
BTW- "Indian Style" sweet ones is not un-PC.
the "Indian" is not the American Indian- but the Indians from India.
i say in class sometimes,
sit in what we call "Indian Style" and what the Indians call "easy Pose".
peace.
dee |
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| "Easy Pose" or "Indian" style is called sukhasana in sanskrit. sukh means happiness.
It is a gentle hip opener though.
Yeah, I agree. Virasana can be a killer. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
    
| Loli - the only answer is to sit higher - more blocks or blankets until your body is ready to go deeper. do NOT force it, as I'm sure you already don't, but I mean REALLY don't  I sat in virasana but with feet pointed out to the sides as a child and now have the wonky knees to show for it. If kids sit in virasana a lot it is important for them to give sukhasana equal time to balance out the hip rotation. |
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| A variation I used to do with my prenatal students was to have them do virasana while straddling a bolster like a saddle. Tried it myself and it was surprisingly relaxing and comforting! After a while, as knees become more mobile, this starts to feel like no stretch at all, so you remove the bolster and start working downward a little more each time.
I agree with using a blanket or pillow and not pushing too far before you're ready. The knee is a delicate thing, be nice to it! My problem with getting down to the floor is not so much knee flexibility but the "thunder thighs" in the way. 
BTW, many of my older students also have knee pain in Easy Pose. Usually we only do it at the beginning and end of class, to center the mind and focus. So, I just have them extend one or both legs until they can sit tall with comfort. The knee is not the focus of that practice, so the last thing I want is for them to be distracted by pain there while trying to center and relax. |
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| Tourist:
Any tips for moving from virasana to supta virasana - reclining hero (also called supta vajrasana - fixed firm pose in Bikram's lineage)?
I find the transition from sitting on my heels to sitting between them difficult. The block works but was wondering if there is a better way of doing it as I am quite comfortable in virasana.
Thanks. |
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| I can sit in easy pose and lotus all day long. However, virasana kills me. I was trying to sit for like 5 minutes everyday which watching TV (with lots of blankets of course) just to try and add some variety. I haven't been doing it lately. Its harder on my knees than hips it seems...but they are all connected, right??
I've always called it "indian style" and I am sure I always will. I wasn't sure what the origins of it were and there are so many other really unPC things I said or called things as a child that I've realized are totally offensive. I was just checking! |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Hot Yogi - we Iyengis use height for supta virasana until the flexibility is there to sit between the feet. Sometimes you need a LOT of height - many blocks and bolsters, maybe even a chair. I often joke that some students have to run to the town hall for a building permit The thing is - we don't just do the pose with a few props as humanly possible - well, sometimes we do but there is so much more to the pose than being able to gut it out and be proud of "accomplishing" it. We look at the legs - are they in a safe position for the knees? At the abdomen - is it puffing out? Is the lower back contracted or is the sacrum elongating and the tailbone in? Is the torso long and resting back? What is the breath doing? Is there even any purpose doing the pose if one can't breath freely and softly?
If you are comofrtable in virasana with one block, try reclining and see what happens. Go slowly and tuck your tailbone as you recline. If you have a huge arch in your back, it is not supta virasana, just a weird ustrasana, if you see what I mean. I like to practice by leaning back onto the seat of my couch. It is nice and high and I can work on getting my legs right and lengthening my lumbar area. Some day in some lifetime I'll get it  |
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| Thanks for all your replies....
sukhasana is 'easy posture' isn't it?
The physio brought up the subject of children sitting in virasana-esque positions...usually with the feet splayed out and actually slowly damaging the knees...
I guess my feeling with regards to Virasana (won't even attempt supta virasana yet!)really is that I am concerned when I teach it to people(and it is seen as 'suitable' for beginners by the org. I am teacher training with) that if they get it wrong, and don't listen to my instructions about knees, or indeed are not 'body aware' enought to realise what it means to have your knees straight on, that they can be doing damage to themselves. I always go around the class to check people's postures, but with the best will in the world, someone may just twist their knees awkwardly and hurt themselves. I found, when I taught it, some people listened and used blocks between feet etc, and were aware of keeping their knees/feet in alignment, but a couple of people went straight into it, not wanting any props and thinking that they were 'doing it' even though they were out of alignment....needless to say I brought the whole class out of it pretty quickly, tried again slowly but the same people made the same mistake and I decided to move on to something else....I guess I feel a bit like Bruce does about Savasana....why bother?  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| loli - start EVERYONE on blocks, take a look and then allow some to remove some of the height. |
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| Tourist:
Thanks for your Iyengar inspired insight. Yup, so that's what I was doing, a "weird ustrasana". Since I have a very flexible back but tight hamstrings and hips (sound familiar?), I guess I was cheating in the pose. I will try it with the tucked tail bone. The degree of difficulty just went "up".
Speaking of ustrasana, I believe in the Iyengar tradition it is practiced with the knees and thighs together while others recommend a 6-8 inch distance between the knees. Any thoughts?
Thanks |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| HotYogi - we start with knees apart and stay at that for quite awhile then move to the full pose when the student is more advanced. And we work that way as advanced students to learn more about the pose and how to go deeper and work around our obstacles. And we've all got 'em!  |
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| My problem with virasana is not in my knees or quads, but in the tops of my feet and front of my ankles -- this is where I feel the stretch. I keep practicing it while sitting on blocks, but I can't hold it for too long because my feet start to become numb. Are there any other asanas that are good for stretching the tops of the feet? Is this an uncommon problem? |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Amy - roll up small towels and place them under your ankles. It will make a world of difference. |
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| when i first started doing virasana the anger i felt for my teacher was intense! i could not sit without pain in my knees. eventually, with a lot of practice that pain went away and then the ankle pain started. ouch! proceed with caution is the best thing i can say.
i wish my teacher at the time had suggested props as i would have been all over them!
this pose still troubles me. i can now sit between my heels. i sit for about ten breaths with my hands in chin mudra, then inhale my hands fingers interlaced straight over my head (this really helps to bring the butt down to the floor t the point where i feel it is solid)....then the trouble starts as i bring my palms to my soles and bend forward. i still cannot get my head all the way to my knees. i stop when i feel the buttocks start to raise up. oh well, i keep practicing. frustrating to say the least!
i suppose the point loli, is that the challenge is there and learning to do this asana safely and with integrity will help you with other challenges on and off the mat.
my killer knee pain pose is Ardha Baddha Padmottanasana - i have to proceed with serious caution on this one!
i wish i had taken better care of my knees and i really wish that i didnt love high (HIGH!) heels so much! |
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| easternsun - 2005-05-05 12:25 AM
i suppose the point loli, is that the challenge is there and learning to do this asana safely and with integrity will help you with other challenges on and off the mat.
You're right.....I will persevere....Thanks Easternsun....and I will make sure I have a stack load of blocks to hand next time I teach this to a class....Thanks Tourist! |
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virasana...hard on knees
