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 Jury Deliberates on MurderModerators: Moderators Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
| Yoga -> Anusara Yoga | Message format |
bigmamma |
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| Hey All, Today is a big day here in the Tucson yoga community. I don't know if this ever made national news but one of my yoga teachers was shot in the head (dead) a while back. The jury goes in today (second jury) to decide on verdict. It's an ugly story. Do a news search under the teacher's name Michael Dojaquez or the accused, Amber Trudell. The events raise numerous issues, of course, one being a question of ethics. I did a search on ethics in the forum and couldn't find anything. Has there been a discussion on this? In couseling we have strict ethical guidelines for relationships with clients (only professional). It is even "against the rules" to allow work trade situations. Any thoughts . . . bigmamma | |||
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| tourist |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 8442      | Wow - what a terrible thing! We have indeed had discussions here on ethics in the past. Big topic. Iyengar teachers are bound by ethical guidelines - I think each national association has its own set of rules but they are probably all very similar. The work exchange rule is interesting. I can see how it would fit in, though. We have found it to be much simpler to pay individuals for work done and they pay for the classes. It just seems to work better and certainly would eliminate some of the "power" issues. It also works in my childcare centre. Teachers whose children attend pay their fees like any other parent - they might get a bit of a discount but otherewise, they get their paycheque and they pay their fees. I'm sure the accountants prefer it that way, too. Tidy. | ||
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| wow! *shock* i was wondering when i came here--what does a murder trial have to do with anusara yoga? oh my goodness! how terribly sad on so many levels! one of the sad things that i've experienced in my own community is the really upsetting abuse that occurs. there are lots of men and women in power struggles, lots of negative and bad behavoir, lots of harmful behavoir: lying, cheating, sexual abuse, coersion, and even cult-like activity (such as intimidation, fear mongering, etc), and of course gossip and back biting. I don't know why, but it seems like the 'normal human stuff' really comes to the fore in yoga communities--maybe it's like this everywhere. i don't know. it is really sad, though. one of the things thta strikes me is what Iyengar says about practicing yoga. In Light on Yoga, He says that yoga is a powerful practice, particularly the practices of the three primary bandhas. Once a practitioner has gained insight into these practices (begun to do them), then they are at a crossroads: they can turn that knowledge and power and thereby their senses inwards to the practice of yoga, or they can use that power and knowledge and thereby their senses to the outward participation in bhoga. He continues to say that a person who is not grounded in the other practices of yoga (such as the abstentions and abservances, prayer and meditation, etc), without a teacher with a solid foundation in these practices to guide that person, that person will likely follow the path of Bhoga--abusing their (particularly sexual) power in a number of ways. this is not to say that, in other communities (such as office work), that people don't have affairs, have fights over marriages, sodomize/rape, and then kill each other. but, that it happens in the yoga community--like occuring in a church--is altogether shocking for many people because yoga is meant to be a practice that moves one away from these hurtful, negative behavoirs into behavoirs that lead to peace, compassion, and enlightenment. in my area, work study is a common practice. there have been few people who have been hurt by this arrangement, to the best of my knowledge, and most people feel the exchange is free. as for relationships with students, this is an altogether touchy issue in my area. in the aerobics world, there's no dating clients. That's just the way it is. But, in the yoga world, people are *really* upset with me. Here's the brief "whole story." I have many aquaintances in the community to own studios or work in a number of locations (studios and gyms). we have a sort of half-hearted teachers group or alliance--where we offer support, help each other out with substitutions, and the like. after a pretty big incident in my area regarding a local teacher who was sexually abusing/assaulting clients in/during classes (bad assisting, mostly), we had a discussion about this very issue. I brought up the issue of the assymmetry of dating clients, to have much of it 'poo-poo-ed' because i'm already married. I simply suggested that if someone wants to date a client (and a client wants to date that person), then they should suggest that the client study with another teacher for a month, and then after that month, if both parties are still interested, then they should date. if a person was a friend or dating before becoming a student--then no problem. But, if the person met in the the student-teacher assymmetry, they should do the 'break' and then get together later. This seems altogether reasonable to me, and in fact until recently, my own husband didn't take my yoga classes because we don't want to show favorites in class or whatever. Many of the yoga teachers became very upset. Some are single, some met their SOs through this relationship and "it turned out fine." and yet, in light of glaring evidences where things "didn't turn out fine" (such as rodney yee's case, our local case, the indiscretions of baron baptiste, among others, not to mention our local situation, etc), it seemed obvious that we should sort of 'loosely adopt' and also advertise that these were our ethical guidelines to ensure the physical, emotional, and sexual safety of our clientele. A lot of mothers are entrusting their teen-aged daughters to many of our male teachers, teachers who have a reputation of 'bad assists' and 'indiscretions.' To me, this is *particularly* dangerous because young women have different boundaries and may not use or be aware of their ability to use their voice because of the power assymmetry! So, i'm basicly considered "uncool" and "staunch and frigid" to name the words that i can type when i was in this little frey. Yoga Alliance has started to develop ethical guidelines that they want their teaching schools to teach and follow (agree to) as well as their individual registered teachers to agree to. What is interesting (though i'm not certain if it has changed) is that i haven't seen any 'due process' if a person is 'brought up' for ethics violations. For example, had the teacher mentioned in this post stream been a RYT through YA, he would have had to agree to the ethics agreement. Say that the young woman, instead of killing him, had brought before the community her accusations of sexual abuse/assault. Then, that was reported to the YA--what would happen to him? what would happen to his registry? thus far, i havent' noticed a 'due process' for bringing up people on these ethical violations. If it was 'just pulled' without any sort of process, then that would be unfair--any person could simply claim "hey, zoebird was smoking pot during class, that breaks the ethics, pull her thingy!" so, that's a lot of power. If there is a process, then it could be determined what is what--perhaps waiting on the legal case or perhaps just taking that evidence under advisement and making a decision from there. There is a way to do things though that balances the power a bit. But then, others would say "who cares?" I think the difficulty is that in many ways, things are self policing and that often doesn't work anyway. I mean, there is plenty of evidence that many teachers and schools have done things that were at the very least 'not nice' and in some cases highly unethical--and yet they still have thousands of clients, new clients every day, a good reputation--and certainly they're not worried about Iyengar's or the YA's ethical guidelines or having their registrations and associations pulled. Here's an article that's related, speaking about 'sex scandals' as well as other 'power trips' in the business: http://yoga.krishna.org/Articles/2002/10/031.html. some of us may have already read this, the article is a bit old (couple of years or more). yeah, so, i rambled. but, i am so sorry that the yoga community in your area had to live through this. it is so tragic on so many levels! | |||
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| anya sharvani |
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| this is awful on so many levels. I don't know if YA ethics standards will ever work because there is no real threat if they are not followed. i mean, really, so what if they pull you registraton? you can get certified through any school and do they check if your registration or cert was pulled? no. and would the average person on the street know the difference or know to ask? personally, one minute i think the entire fitness(yoga included because of the class/teacher similarites)industry needs to have better standards and certs and the next minute i worry about who will be setting those standards. *sigh* That was a good article you linked, zoebird. | |||
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| well, that's really part of the issue. i mean, i don't think that Rodney Yee is worried about loosing any credibility. I mean, he's still one of the most widely known, top selling yogis on the market (books, videos, workshops, his own studio, etc). Here, he's been involved in a sex scandal, and 'oh it's much ado about nothing' and most people just ignore it. men and women from all over have stories of teachers doing any number of inappropriate things to them--big name teachers. And yet, people still flock to these teachers, even knowing this information. Obviously, those teachers have *something* to offer, but you're right about 'who cares' and 'what would happen if.' most people don't know that i'm certified or registered, they don't know what it means anyway, and they seem to not really care either way. newbies, particularly, don't even know what to look for in a teacher, don't even know what's possible in a teacher. They don't know what to ask for. They assume--hey, this person teaches at my gym, a wellness studio, or a yoga studio--s/he must know what s/he is doing, s/he must be an ethical person. . .etc. so, there's an issue there. | |||
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| anya sharvani |
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zoebird - 2005-07-18 2:31 PM well, that's really part of the issue. i mean, i don't think that Rodney Yee is worried about loosing any credibility. I mean, he's still one of the most widely known, top selling yogis on the market (books, videos, workshops, his own studio, etc). Here, he's been involved in a sex scandal, and 'oh it's much ado about nothing' and most people just ignore it. men and women from all over have stories of teachers doing any number of inappropriate things to them--big name teachers. And yet, people still flock to these teachers, even knowing this information. Obviously, those teachers have *something* to offer, but you're right about 'who cares' and 'what would happen if.' most people don't know that i'm certified or registered, they don't know what it means anyway, and they seem to not really care either way. newbies, particularly, don't even know what to look for in a teacher, don't even know what's possible in a teacher. They don't know what to ask for. They assume--hey, this person teaches at my gym, a wellness studio, or a yoga studio--s/he must know what s/he is doing, s/he must be an ethical person. . .etc. so, there's an issue there. mabye instead of a code of ethics we need a "what to look for in a yoga teacher"code and post it on every website of every YA approved school/teacher. why not? at least people would be aware then. I know a teacher who regularly uses her yoga class to further her own personal agenda of how she thinks people should think. (and it's not about a yogic lifestyle) most of her students will not take another teachers class and never have. anyway, what could one do in this situation? she not being ethical but it's borderline. what would you do? | |||
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| bigmamma |
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| Quick update: Amber Trudell was convicted of murdering her yoga teacher. The jury said that is was "easy to convict her" and that they were not convinced of her story. I don't know, no offense here but I think that yoga may attract many students who have been or are psychologically or spiritually wounded. The teacher is in a position of power and influence that can easily be abused. I'm with you, Zoebird, for a more strict code of ethics. All it takes is one unstable person. . . Of course, my view is skewed, because all of my clients would be unstable or mentally ill. | |||
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| easternsun |
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| teachers should not date students. ever. period. wait, ask me what i really think!  as preciously suggested, if one feels there is the potential for a relationship with a student, the student should switch to another teacher. some students do come into yoga wounded and look to the teacher as a spiritual guide or even a therapist. i am not suggesting that most teachers will cross professional or ethical borders with their students. i am not even suggesting yoga teachers function as therapists. i just think that any mess can be avoided by adopting a strict no dating students policy. my mind keeps going back to the yamas and niyamas. maybe it doesnt clearly state "dont shag your students!" but i am pretty sure it is in there on more than one level  | |||
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| i think it might be covered under "brahmacharya." but, lets unpack that a bit. brahmacharya is most traditionally associated with celebacy. now, i've seen this rather broadly defined in the tradition depending upon one's station. for example, if one is single and monastic, it means celebacy as we westerners understand it (no sex with anyone). if one is a householder, it means celebacy outside the marriage (no extra marital affairs). this is how yoga teachers who are married can have children and still be considered practicing brahmacharya. if one is single and wants to be a householder, celebacy means both of the above--while single, no sex, once married, sex only with one's partner. in our modern era and in our western minds, while we basicly agree with that assessment, but we also like the idea of sexual freedom (without marriage). so, our concept of brahmacharya is now broadly defined as 'sexual ethics' which is a mixture of psychology, traditional ideas of brahmacharya, and what we consider 'practical application.' by this, if a person is in a relationship and both parties feel it is appropriate to have sex--regardless of marriage--then it's appropriate as long as both consent and there's no harming each other. i think that both of these concepts work, and particularly the first, but in the second any individual is able to twist their wrong behavoir into 'it was consentual' and say, then, that 'it's ok.' simply because it was consentual doesn't necessarily mean it's ok, particularly if the original relationship is assymetrical and--as said above--one party is particularly needy, vulnerable, or wounded. I certainly think it's an appropriate statement to say that many wounded people come to yoga. i know many such people, and i've had many approach me looking for 'spiritual guidence' who are not-too-happy when i tell them that i am not a therapist, that i don't do spiritual councelling, etc, and i refer them to yoga teachers who are also psychologists or to churches or other spiritual groups. I also find that many young men in my group (my age) use yoga to their advantage--they find an attractive woman, unhappy in her marriage and in love with yoga and then display their 'yoga compassion and wisdom' to start an affair (much like the case above). It's pretty messy, but these young men tell me that 'it's consentual' and 'it's what she wants' and, as bikram said in the article i posted 'sometimes it's better to just have sex with someone so that they're happy, etc.' to me, these things are 'not brahmacharya.' but then, no one listens to me on this matter anyway! LOL as to the other situation, i find that it's not common for teachers to say 'don't go to other places.' whether it's for their own personal agenda or way of thinking or if it's for profit, it's still problematic. the flip side of it is the intimidation of other teachers. I've met teachers who say 'don't practice at that studio' or 'don't go to that teacher' point blank in classes--only come here, only take from my teachers, etc. usually, it's for money issues. in cases where a student freely chooses to go to another studio or teacher, and then comes back to the original studio/teacher and talks to friends about his/her experience, the head teacher (who has this policy) hears about it. This teacher will then call the other teacher/studio and harass them about 'stealing clients' and so on. i'm not sure how one, exactly, 'steals' a client--since people can freely choose where and with whom they want to practice. anyway, being in that mess is crazy. i've been accused of this many times. with it comes a lot of harassment. daily phone calls and messages telling me that i'm 'unethical' that i'm 'stealing' that i'm not yogic. going public about it with statements in classrooms about practicing with me, how unethical i am, etc. this, of course, is illegal as slander and as harassment--which means that i get to threaten with lawsuits to cease the behavoir. usually the threat works and people will back off. But, it has happened more than once when people take lessons or workshops from me, and then return to their 'home' studio. i find it quite strange. as to the cult-like behavoir of that one teacher, i'm not sure what one can do. according to many of my students, people know what's going on. For example, they knew that i was asked to leave a studio because i blew the whistle on inappropriate sexual behavoir by one teacher as well as because i found my own voice as a teacher. they also knew that the teacher was then harassing me and accusing me of stealing clients. Many students left that teacher at that time, going to other studios and avoiding me as well as the other teacher. Many students say that they know or understand that some teachers are just too whacky too--and will avoid them. but, i don't think a newbie to the community knows to do this. . .or knows that these dangers are here too. what to do? what to do. . . | |||
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| anya sharvani |
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| I don't think it is off base to say that most people emotionally or spiritually wounded come to yoga. at the very least, most of the practitioners i know were "seeking" something. the bit about bikram thinking it is better to sleep with someone who is threating to kill herself absolutley shocked me! did calling her family or a prevention hotline escape him? Grrr. this behavior goes on everywhere-just look a the price of malpractice insurance.our worst nightmare: one day the stuff will really hit the fan and the state will step in and regulate us, so we better start regulating ourselves. the problem is who should set the standards? this is the downside of popularity. | |||
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| i think that that's exactly what yoga alliance is striving to do. first, to set basic standards for training (so the state won't regulate it) and second to set basic standards of professional ethics. the problem is that there's no real 'governing body' and it is elective. certain schools have their own 'governing bodies' like iyengar--where you join their association. i think that they can strip you of your certification, but that doesn't mean tht you can't go out and say 'I've taught for this long, i've taken this training' when someone asks about certification. the criticisms about yoga alliance are many--as you asked, who should be the one to decide. in short, a large and diverse body of yogins should be the ones to decide, and i think that YA has tried to assemble that. The largest fear is that the standards will become too narrow; the greatest benefit is that if we can demonstrate that we can regulate ourselves (like aerobics instructors), then we'll likely be left alone by the state. if not, we'll probably go the way of massage therapists and direct-entry midwives--with the increased costs and all that too. There are benefits, but there are also draw backs. | |||
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| designaire |
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zoebird - 2005-07-18 11:19 AM after a pretty big incident in my area regarding a local teacher who was sexually abusing/assaulting clients in/during classes (bad assisting, mostly), we had a discussion about this very issue. I brought up the issue of the assymmetry of dating clients, to have much of it 'poo-poo-ed' because i'm already married. Since you're from the PA area what incident were you referring (sexually abusing/assaulting clients in class) to, I have a feeling I know who it is but was curious if I was correct. Or maybe you don't want to say...too much gossip. I'm asking because there was a teacher I should have confronted about something in that area but never did. I just left the studio. I've had regrets about not having said something at the time. I was hoping it was resolved in some way. Edited by designaire 2005-07-20 10:36 AM | |||
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| you're welcome to pm me about it. | |||
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