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| I am on a private, closed list of Catholics and somone was chatting about weight loss for Yoga, the video and how great it is. at least 3 of us have it as it was cheap on one spirit a while back. I think its a good beginner tape.
Anyway, someone said, Oh, dont do yoga, the word yogi is a god in that practice and he is satan. Whoa! Now i studied religions in anthropology grad school a while back and dont like this kind of talk.
So what do you think? I am not a very good student of yoga, but i bet this is false, isn't it?
Please direct me to some links that might tactfully address this. I dont want to get into a shouting match with these folks and unsub the list, but this seems narrow minded nad ignorant.
Moonmoma  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Moonmama,
What do you think, in your heart???
If you want to learn about yoga philosophies, go back and do a search on this forum and read some of our discussions about Christians practicing Yoga and the other topics we have discussed related to Christianity and Yoga.
Besides, you answered your own question when you said you didn't like this kind of talk. If that is true and you really don't like it, you shouldn't waste your time hanging around those kinds of people and that kind of talk...probably best to unsub...you will never be able to win an argument with these kinds of people and its not worth trying.
Anyway, the yoga practice is a very personal one. If you are going to practice yoga and practice it correctly, then you will have to rely on your own mind, not someone else's. Practicing Yoga for weight loss from a video is like going on a binge diet. But, if you are fortunate, your practice may end up being a stepping stone for you, possibly leading you into something greater later on. Best wishes and good luck to you.
Cyndi
Edited by Cyndi 2006-01-11 7:16 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
  
| Wow - sounds like those catholics have turned a bit toward the holy-roller fundamentalist side... I have had devout catholics in my class and we have devout catholics on this board. None of them have concerns about yoga. Yes, it can be (but doesn't have to be) a spiritual practice. But yogis have been telling us forever that it is NOT a religion and that we can be better participants in our own relgion through the practice of yoga. I'll leave the rest of the explaining to others  Enjoy your yoga! |
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Thanks for your response. You may have misunderstood me when I mentioned that I own that video Yoga for weight loss. I do, but not to lose weight but becasue it was nearly free from one spirit a few years ago when i wanted a video with the sun salutation on it. I'm really still a novice, but have been practicing yoga under various teachers since about 2000. I'm really thin. In fact, I just gained some weight and it was a great source of rejoicing for me. I have celiac disease and have had lots of health problems due to this including weight loss, so I'm not looking to lose wiehgt. 
I am looking for some help addressing these statements that are being given out as fact. I would really appreciate it if anyone can direct me to a source. I want to stay on this list where this discusson began, but if i am going, I am going out with a bang!  |
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| Yoga means union, derived from the root word 'yuj' which means to join, yoke, to concentrate ones attention on. This union can be taken as union with god. A Yogi is one who seeks after union with god (Ishwara). Patanjali describes yoga as the stilling of the fluctuations of the mind.
Does any of this sound satanic?
Personally I don't believe in satan, I suppose the closest thing to satan in yoga philosophy that I know of is Avidya (Ignorance). In the Yoga sutras of Patanjali there isn't any mention of Satan or demons. Yoga is very much an inner journey and one needs to listen very quietly to their head and their heart. One needs to discriminate truth from falsehood to open into a wider more embracing truth.
Even if there is a god called Yogi one can practice yoga and not be worshipping satan. Yoga is between yourself and God. Personally I agree with cyndi, I wouldn't bother arguing with this person.
Perhaps Neel can direct you to the answers you seek. |
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| So I am trying very hard to not to feel the way I feel toward the person who made this statement about yogi being another term for Satan. I can't pity her ignorance. I only see judgement in the statements she made. This is the problem for me: me judging her judging me.  |
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| Allow yourself to feel the way you do but examine why her statements bother you. Does it bring up doubt in your mind about yoga? Are you afraid that she could be right and that you have inadvertantly been worshipping the devil and that you may have to give up something which brings you great relief? If you are secure in your convictions then her opinions should not affect your state of mind. I have found myself many a times bothered by anothers opinion but know at the root of my discontent is an issue I haven't faced within and it is usually doubt about my own beliefs. |
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| No, it bothers me because I think she judges me to be less holy than she since I practice yoga and she isso sure it is a path to Satan. |
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| You know in your heart what is the truth, you needn't convince another of it. No matter what 'evidence' you amount I suspect she will still stand by her convictions. So inform her if you feel you must but don't be too attached to the result.
Namaste |
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| It's my feelings of unworthiness cropping up. At least at this stage of my life I can finally recognize what it is and face it. |
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| Monmona:
You caring for her statement or judgement will make sense only if: a) you respect her more than yourself OR b) you think she knows better than you.
If a) and b) are not true, you should NOT care for her statement. You still should listen to her, while not caring about her.
There is a rain in Virginia today. Do you care about it?
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| At best yoga will bring you into a deeper union with the divine. At the worst it's another science which will give you a better level of health: mental, physical, and spiritual. If there is a devil I'm sure he curses yoga will all his might, since it seems to make everybody happy.
What you're dealing with here is fear, uncertainty, and doubt. If it was just me I'd ignore the person, and not get drawn into a discussion. If you think that there are additional people who will be mislead by this person's bigotry you might try pointing out a couple of simple facts. You should be aware that you are NOT going to persuade the other person, and should concentrate on keeping the other people interested.
Yoga means union is a big one. I'd also point out that one of the Niyamas (or 5 internal restrains) is loving devotion to a god. Unfortunately Patanjali really doesn't specify which one, but Christianity definitely fits. So in order to practice yoga you must have devotion to god. Not the sort of thing that Satan would push.
Finally, the peace, clarity, and happiness I get out of yoga I've been often promised, but never found in any church. I'll take results over theology any day of the week. |
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| admittedly, i wrote some great posts on this exact topic in one in this forum. should be right around or under this thread--something about 'my abuelos. . .'--i don't know if i'm spelling it right.
but, as far as the vatican is concerned, ti's ok to practice yoga. yoga is a spiritual discipline--like prayer or meditation--that can be used by any religion/religious tradition. |
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| I've never heard the Satan one before! 
But...some people are threatened by the relationship between yoga and Hinduism. Personally, I'm of the opinion that Yoga and Hinduism derive from the same (Vedic) philosophy - but practicing yoga does not make you a Hindu. You'd have to practice Hinduism for that. However, being a yogi (or at least a sadhaka) gives me a greater appreciation of Hinduism. So, I understand why people are threatened, but I don't agree with it. All spiritual practices should lead to the same goal. It's not a matter of which approach is right, just which one is right for YOU. |
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| i've been waiting to weigh in on this one...
but...
i think that yoga actually does make you satan. look at the facts:
since starting yoga practice i have acquired horns, a tail, and several pitchforks. my skin color has turned to a bright red, and several rows of sharp fangs have grown in.
...
in all seriousness, though, anybody saying that is probably ill-informed, bound by dogmatic assurances, fearful of new ideas, or all of the above.
like everyone has said, yoga will enhance your spirituality if you let it, regardless of what spirituality that may be.
and if leads you to satanism, more power to you.
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| The tendency of yoga is to move you toward union with the divine. Yoga does not tell us what the divine is, so if you practice yoga (without for example taking up Hinduism, which you need not do), then you will move toward union with the divine as you understand it. So if you are Catholic, yoga will help you move toward union with God.
It is possible that the practice of yoga will lead you to explore or even change your understanding of the divine, as walking through the woods alone, or visiting a third-world country, or other powerful experiences will sometimes lead a person to explore or change his views. Any halfway-decent religion (and Catholicism is at least halfway decent  ) will give you support and direction in exploring your views about the divine. Avoiding yoga because it might make you Hindu is like avoiding a walk in the woods because it might make you a Druid. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Let's not forget which culture Yoga originated from....and which culture 100% supports and has a clear understanding of what Yoga is and the meaning of it. Whereas, Catholism, Christianity and others are going to have some conflicting ideas about it. Hindu itself is NOT a religion, and neither is Buddhism...it is a way of life.
Yes, Yoga does direct you to the Divine. There is only one Divine. It is the Ultimate Truth...Brahma. Did I say that right?? Not Brahmin, Brahma, 
Edited by Cyndi 2006-01-12 6:40 PM
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| dhanurasana - 2006-01-12 4:47 PM
and if leads you to satanism, more power to you.
Actually I've always considered Satanism a really interesting religion for idiots. Let face it, first you have to buy into the whole Christian view of the universe and how everything works. Then you have to throw in your support for the side that going to LOSE! Anyway, I'm pretty sure most of it is all about getting fat, ugly, white guys laid. (And pushing 'Eavy Metal!)
For anybody who's really interested in the subject Isaac Bonewits had some run ins with the Satanists. He was a member of the church for a while before they threw him out for causing trouble. Gee, what a recommendation, I got thrown out of the Satanic Church. I guess that's like being kicked out of Metallica for being too rough and violent.
In all seriousness Isaac Bonewits is a pretty cool guy, and the only person to get a PhD in Thaumaturgy. (That's magic to us lay people's)
http://www.neopagan.net/ |
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| Hrmmmm.....I really want to weigh in on this, im just not sure where to start exactly.....
I could i guess start by telling you to search through the forums and find alot of posts by Zoebird, since she really really REALLY knows her stuff on this.
You have to find the answers that are right for you, and you alone, after all its only your path in life that will be judged, when its just you and whichever god you need to come to terms with in your next or after life.
This person you are looking at having an argument with seems to go by the tried and true approach of organized "christianity", which is instil fear in anyone that doesnt go along with their close minded ideas of what worship should be. You will not win an argument, no matter what facts you attempt to share, they will be taken out of context or dismantled and discredited because it wont fall in line with the belief of this person.
This is why I personally dont like the idea of orginized religion. On the same note, I try to be fairly open minded with people who are believers in orginized religion - I go by the dont judge a person until you have walked in their shoes idea.
Its also a matter of power behind the belief or ideals - if you practice yoga with an open mind and with the knowledge of it bringing closer to your trueself, then you are in turn finding yourself closer to god...or gods.
If you put a bad meaning or evil insinuation into this ( or anything relly for that matter ) then it will in turn be that way for you....or rather the person that is of this belief. Just because they believe one thing, doesnt mean if it doesnt feel like a truthful belief in your heart of hearts it applies to you.
You may want to kindly point out, that in its very basic and truest form prayer is really nothing more than meditation (im going out on a limb here: But the use of a rosary for "prayer" is quite a parallel to the use of mala beads for meditaton). Fundamentally thats what yoga is, it just makes use of your mind body and breath - basically your entire self.
If this person wants to apply an evil context to the yoga practice, then let her, dont let her push your buttons, because that is really what she is trying to do...just ignore it and tactfully show that yoga has brought you a spiritual peace that allows you to deal with this person's hostility.
I suppose I could go on.....but...I think i have said enough...hope all these replies help. |
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| Hey GJ. When you speak of satanism are you talking of the Anton LeVey ( sp? ) version, like the satanic bible and church of satan and the like? From the stuff I have studied and read ( including the satanic bible ) many years back, this "religion" really has nothing to do with satan.
Other than that, in complete blasphemous form....I really dont get these hardcore christians that say they dont believe in satan...i mean, thats a huge part of the bible and christian foundation - so by saying you dont believe in satan, you cant really say that you believe in god. This is just my opinion, but really you cant have an acceptance of one piece without the acceptance of the other existing....i see it very much liek yin and yang.
Anyways, thats all from me...sorry for going a bit OT... |
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| sideshow - 2006-01-13 5:18 PM
Hey GJ. When you speak of satanism are you talking of the Anton LeVey ( sp? ) version, like the satanic bible and church of satan and the like? From the stuff I have studied and read ( including the satanic bible ) many years back, this "religion" really has nothing to do with satan.
Yup, dem cats, out in cali. Berkerley to be exact.
Other than that, in complete blasphemous form....I really dont get these hardcore christians that say they dont believe in satan...i mean, thats a huge part of the bible and christian foundation - so by saying you dont believe in satan, you cant really say that you believe in god. This is just my opinion, but really you cant have an acceptance of one piece without the acceptance of the other existing....i see it very much liek yin and yang.
Anyways, thats all from me...sorry for going a bit OT...
Well.... My understanding is that the place of Satan has grown as the position of God as all power ful, and all good had become more and more predomininant. At that point you are correct, they needed somebody to balance out their all loving God, and take the blame for all the problems. Satan's a pretty minor player in the Old Testament, and not much of one in the New Testament either, at least until you get to Revelations. |
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Veteran
Posts: 258
| Yoga widens the mind. And real "satans" have always been afraid of openminded people...
Kristi |
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| Hello Moonmama :-)
If you want to know what the Catholic Church thinks about Yoga, cruise over to the Vatican web site (www.vatican.va) & use the search engine to search for "yoga" in the encyclicals. Especially interesting is "PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR CULTURE
PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR INTERRELIGIOUS DIALOGUE
JESUS CHRIST, THE BEARER OF THE WATER OF LIFE
A Christian reflection on the “New Age” "
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html
A good point to note is that the current Holy Father was for many years the chief doctrine-keeper of the Church, so he is very religiously conservative. In short, the Holy Father is not too keen on yoga.
*
Many religious go through a stage where they are eager to know and do God's will, and are trying to discover it. This is oddly similar to the Zen stage where trees aren't trees and rocks aren't rocks. In this stage, the religious are very careful to avoid things that are displeasing to God. But at this point, they usually have more good intentions than good sense, and they impose restrictions on themselves which God does not command. Like dancing or drinking or whatever.
Hopefully, as they mature, they will become more educated in their religion, and drop the restrictions that are just man's wisdom.
For many Protestants, yoga practice is like this. Much of the philosophy and worldview of yoga philosophy is contrary to what a Christian believes (zoe's comments notwithstanding :-). For example, the whole concept of the "divine" ass opposed to the personal God fo the bible.
So the immature Christian may stay away from yoga because of its association with eastern religions. But as he grows in the faith, a christian begins to see that he does not have to agree with yoga philosophy to practice yoga. He does not have to chant sanskrit prayers to those who are not God. And so on.
It is like Paul's teachings about the weaker brother - if your brother can not buy the cheap meat in the pagan temple because of his conscience, then he should refrain. But if you understand that meat is meat, even if it has been offered to gods, then you can eat the cheap meat with a good conscience.
Likewise, I practice asana and breathwork, and in philosophy sessions, I state my views along with the others, and we all get along rather well :-). It is more than lawful for me to be there, it is even a chance to peak well of _my_ God, and to occasionally share the glory and beauty of Him who I serve.
And it's a good workout :-). |
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| Moonmoma
No, it bothers me because I think she judges me to be less holy than she since I practice yoga and she isso sure it is a path to Satan.
Someone somewhere will always feel comfortable (and I daresay even enjoy) judging you...for whatever reason. It makes them feel better about themselves.
I've learned to let it go. I understand it's more about them and their insecurities than it is about me. It's a shame some are so limited and fearful, but I don't bother getting caught up in it. As long as they don't try to physically prevent me from doing something I wish to do, I ignore them.
I'm a Catholic who practices Yoga ~ it's not a big deal. If all you're looking for is a cool workout, Yoga is great. You don't need to go any deeper if you don't want to. And if you did decide to go a little deeper, Yoga need not conflict with any of your beliefs. If anything, it'll probably make you a better, happier Catholic.
Welcome! |
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| *my 2 cents*
Since doing yoga for about 7 years now, and recently becoming a teacher, my parents are super religous (Pentecostal) and they think I have completely moved into the dark side.
Being raised with an extreme Christian upbringing (I had never heard 'secular' music till I was 12), I can say that Christians are afraid of whatever may make them even inately question their religion, they are afraid of what could crumble their perfect empire. So anything from any different area is "satanic", even tho Hinduism is one of the most beaurtiful ways of living I have studied.
Many people do this on a daily basis anyway, not only with religion - they don't understand something so they either make fun of it - or make it bad and outcast it.
I highly recommend the book "the Pagan Christ" by Tom Harpur.
He used to be an anglican priest, and he did some very amazing research on the origins of christainism. It is not a bash against the faith, it is quite an amazing read. |
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Yoga/Yogi=Satan?!
