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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
    
| OK massage folks, here is a question for you. DH has a tough muscle knot in his adductor and is wanting to know if it is possible for him to be doing too much self-massage on it. It has been bothering him for a couple of weeks and he is tired of spending money and trying to find time in his day to have someone else work on it. Should he just massage it several times a day on his own or every other day or??? He is the type to over-do and keep picking at it like a scab  and doesn't want to delay the healing process. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Tourist,
Why don't you just stick a needle on the Ashi (pain) point and be done with it. Seriously, absolutley, Yes, you can overly massage an area to the point where you are aggravating the area and deepening the injury and/or stagnation at that! I definitely would seek an Acupuncturist or you can pay lots of $$ for several visits to a Chiropractor...Acupuncture is much cheaper and more effective.
I'm sure there is much more going on than just a knot. You would need an experienced TCMD to give you that diagnosis though. |
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| Good points, Cyndi.
Tourist, you and your hubby can also try GUA SHA, which is Chinese for sand scrapping. It's easy. You'll need oil. You can mix something like emu oil with a medicated, analgesic oil - whatever your husband prefers. You'll need a gua sha tool.. Originally, the tool has been a water buffalo horn. Don't have a water buffalo horn, you say? Don't worry, you can use a coin, like a 1/2 dollar (something on the big side) or a ceramic soup spoon you find in a Chinese restaurant. Pour the oil mixture onto the part of the body that has the knot and gently but firmly use the coin, soup spoon or even a shell to scrape the skin. You're not trying to scrape layers of skin off; your goal is to bring the stagnant qi and blood to the surface. The knot should dissipate. Your husband will have reddish-purplish marks on the area, especially where the knot was. Try not to break the skin while doing this.
Gua Sha can be done on pretty much any part of the body - neck, in between the shoulder blades, low back. It usually feels good.
After re-reading your original post, you should probably do this on your husband since he's liable to break his skin and gua sha himself to death (not literally).
If this is successful for Mr. Tourist, you might want to invest in an official $10.00 gua sha tool at your local Chinatown herb store or on eBay. I got mine on eBay. But, I also like using a shell. Don't ask me what kind of shell. Just a shell. And if this is really interesting to you, you can always google gua sha for more info. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hey Fifi,
One of the best Chinese souveniers I ever received was a case full of various sized Cups. The kind that comes with a pump so that you can pump the air out of after you place them on the area needed. These are great for at home use and are easy to use as well. If other's reading this don't know, this particular procedure is called Chinese Cupping.
Although, you can also put a flame under an ordinary glass cup to get hot, then immediately place on the area on the body - beginners do not even try this procedure!!  My TCMD taught me this.
Oh well, Gua Sha sounds interesting...I've never tried that before. Cupping is very similar...talk about purple marks though!! |
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| I love cupping, especially on the upper, middle and lower back. I worked for a very successful Chinese lady acupuncturist in SF who had every single patient cupped prior to acupuncture. All of her patients also received a little chi nei tsang (abdominal massage) before acupuncture, too. I think the three "therapies" were her secret to success. Then, moxa, depending on whether a person needed it or not.
Gua sha (gwa sah) works very well for the crunchy, gritty stuff that gets congested in the tissues. Also known as a knot. It might take more than one application, so be patient. Give the skin time to recover- maybe a week inbetween treatments.
Cupping is easy, too, but I'm afraid my instruction over the 'net might not suffice. Actually, you just need to see how it's done one time and you'll get the picture. There is a woman (a licensed acupuncturist) in CA who gives seminars on cupping. It's really cool because she gets into a lot of various conditions and applications. I think her name pops up when you google gua sha because she has maybe the only book written in english on gua sha. How convenient.
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| Dear Tourist:
1. In general, (not always), it is NOT possible for him to over do massaging by himself if he uses his own hands, and not instruments. Because, in general, he shall get tired before it is over for the part being massaged.
2. Massage does NOT heal the body. It only increaes blood circulation giving a temporary relief.
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| kulkarnn - 2006-04-21 4:07 PM
2. Massage does NOT heal the body. It only increaes blood circulation giving a temporary relief.
what does heal the body?
what about techniques such as myofascial release?
or shiatsu even...
are these effective techniques?
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Thanks so much everyone for your replies. Mr. Tourist has had quite a few accupuncture treatments in the past and has never found them helpful (or at least says he has never felt they helped more than other treatments done for the same problem) so he is not a big believer at present. The coin treatment sounds promising although since this is the inner thigh, that is going to be some tender skin! I actually remember learning about that a long time ago in my ECE (early childhood education) training because we have a large Asian population here on the west coast and we needed to know not to report child abuse if we saw the marks on their bodies. Funny how you pick up bits of information in life, eh? I have astonishingly easy access to ostrich oil - there is a farm just down the street - will it work as well as emu oil?  And yes, we also have a busy, bustling Chinatown so I can probably get the "real thing" if I need it. Sounds like a handy tool to have.
Mostly I have to get this guy to class. He is so inflexible, he got this "injury" from bending down to get a sock out of a laundry basket I confess to being an enabler - since I am short, I do the low work and he reaches stuff off high shelves for me in return. I tried to give him some poses to stretch out the adductor but his hamstrings and hips are so tight he really couldn't get into the pose far enough to get the area stretched. *sigh* Maybe a little hot oil and scraping will give him some incentive! |
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| Glenda, the down low enabler.... |
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| ha ha ha, good one, Green Jello!
Yes, the adductor is in a very tender place. I tell everyone Iyengar is true physical therapy. I hope you're able to get him to class! |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Well, we did a little gua sah and it was pretty easy to make a nice big mark! He tried some on a knotty place in my back and it felt like it had been massaged for half an hour after only a very short time of working on it. I'll let you know what he says about it later - he's still asleep  |
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| is there any chance mr. tourist is on any asthma meds, or other meds? some of them have the unpleasant side effect of *very* tight muscles. advair does this to me, though I do need it at times for my asthma. last time I was on it for longer than four months, it was the outer portion of the quadricep, this time, it appears to be the levator dorsii. my massage therapist worked on it last night, and it felt like she was dragging rocks through my upper back/neck. just thought i'd mention it. |
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| dhanurasana: what does heal the body?what about techniques such as myofascial release?
or shiatsu even...are these effective techniques?
===> Body heals ONLY because it is automatic natural tendency of the body to heal. The only thing required for healing is: a) removal of any obstacles to healing - for example: If your abdomen is healing and it is wrapped with a tight belt as many corporate workers do, that belt should be loosened. b) sufficient rest should be given to that part: for example if your back is paining, a means to NOT use the back should be employed. c) in some cases a missing nutrient is to be provided to that body part. For example one with an insufficiently healing skin is missing Sunshine, it should be provided. and lastly, d) if the person is not utilizing that part, it should be utilized within limits. For example, one with unhealthy legs is not using the legs, they should go for a walk.
Any external means, which comes under the title of Therapy whether it is Yoga, Accupuncture/pressure, Massage (Ayurvedic, Mechanical, etc.), Heat, etc. etc. give ONLY Temporary Relief and NO healing.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| NE - really? Yes, he is on asthma meds, but he has always had very tight muscles so I don't think there has been a change. Do you know which component of the Advair was the culprit? We will definitely look into that! Thank you so much.
Neel - I have to say that such therapies as massage, accupuncture etc. help create conditions where the body can heal itself. Even if you just do gentle, comforting "spa" massage, it relaxes the body so the body has more energy for healing itself. For conditions like low back pain where the SI joints are out of place and consequently the muscles have gone into spasms and knots, rest alone does not work, partly because the body cannot effectly "rest" when it is in extreme pain. Manipulation and treatments of a variety of means allow the body to heal by creating the conditions for rest to happen.
I also don't know of anyone in our modern world (or the "modern" worlds of one hundred, two hundred or more years ago) who has the opportunity to have complete physical rest every time they injure themselves. I once knew someone who worked for an alternative practitioner. The practitioner was a great believer in self care and not using western medicine when what was needed was alterntive care and rest. The employee had a severe condition that she treated with alternative methods but she still needed one or two days "rest" each month. The high-minded and "caring" alternative practitioner fired her. If you can't get proper rest in that circumstance, you sure are not going to get it in the corporate world or any other mainstream job. |
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| I am not certain, you'll want to check the PI for advair, but I think it's the serevent component that has that particular side effect. it's rare (<2% of the study population reported it, and I think it was only in the post-release adverse effects, my allergist didn't believe me at first), but it's the sort of tight (chronic shortening) that is horrible and won't really relax for a few weeks then tighten again, but just stays short. it's hard to describe that kind of muscle soreness, because it's very similar to just not being flexible (like my ankle was when it came out of a six-week cast), but goes one step further in being abnormally tight. for me, it's only if I've been on the advair for too long (a number of months), and does go away in a few weeks (four to eight) with some stretching/exercise after I stop the meds. |
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| You hit the nail on the head, T. REST. None of us get enough of it on a regular basis. In the "olden days" people would "summer" in the country. Ahhhhh, wouldn't that be awesome! Or go for a month-long hot spring soak somewhere in Italy.
I suppose the very rich still "summer" and rest.
Anyway, I hope everyone is healed quickly and completely. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Fifi - most of the people who "summered" in the country, also wintered there - and worked their butts off! I try hard not to have an overly romantic idea of how life was in the "good old days" ....maybe it is because I am old enough to remember some of them |
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| No, I'm talking way before you and I were born - and only the wealthy class at that. The privliged few who had an even wealthier spinster aunt with a large estate in the country (I'm thinking of all the olde British movies I've seen). It sounds like camp; hunting, walking, horse back riding....cocktails at 5!
How did we get on this topic?
Oh, by the way, ostrich oil is perfect to use. Do you keep a tube of traumeel in the house? You can mix the ostrich oil and traumeel together for gua sha. |
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| Tourist wrote:Neel - I have to say that such therapies as massage, accupuncture etc. help create conditions where the body can heal itself. Even if you just do gentle, comforting "spa" massage, it relaxes the body so the body has more energy for healing itself. For conditions like low back pain where the SI joints are out of place and consequently the muscles have gone into spasms and knots, rest alone does not work, partly because the body cannot effectly "rest" when it is in extreme pain. Manipulation and treatments of a variety of means allow the body to heal by creating the conditions for rest to happen.
I also don't know of anyone in our modern world (or the "modern" worlds of one hundred, two hundred or more years ago) who has the opportunity to have complete physical rest every time they injure themselves. I once knew someone who worked for an alternative practitioner. The practitioner was a great believer in self care and not using western medicine when what was needed was alterntive care and rest. The employee had a severe condition that she treated with alternative methods but she still needed one or two days "rest" each month. The high-minded and "caring" alternative practitioner fired her. If you can't get proper rest in that circumstance, you sure are not going to get it in the corporate world or any other mainstream job.
===> Dear Sister Tourist: When an external agent is applied to the body, it is the body which reacts to the agent. The agent is inert such as warm water, or oil, etc. The body reacts to counteract that agent when the agent is not normal need. For example, when a mango is eaten, the body reacts in one way to digest the mango and use it for body. When, a black coffee is drunk, the body reacts in another way to throw the coffee out. In the later case, an energy is felt, but the energy is NOT from coffee as misunderstood. The feeling is NOT due to creation of energy, but to the wastage of energy to throw coffee.
Exactly same thing happens with massage. When massage is taken, the body reacts to the NON-normal (actually abnormal) agent and that creates feeling of relaxation/energy/warmth/blood-circulation, etc. It also creates a temporary relief, which is better than any chemical or other therapies. However, that energy is already within the system, and it wastes it to react to massage. It does NOT heal the body.
Whether one can take rest in the corporate world, or whether one should take it in the corporate world, and whether one should find alternative or rebel, etc., these are all personal issues. They do not violate the law of healing. All healing takes place only in the rest of that part.
When a person takes massage, that does not do any difference to healing. The person has to take the same or actually more amount of rest to heal.
I am not guessing. I know it for sure more than the fact. Also, all other agents such as Chemical, etc. are extremely injurious to health, though they may not cause immediate death. In fact people take them only because of the fact that :
" They do not cause immediate death, but give immediate relief".
And, one therapy does not work, and therefore a persons seeks another one, and then another one. After getting confused, a person feels: there is another therapy which might do the trick. Or, all therapies are necessary, and they are different for different people, et. etc.
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How much is too much?
