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| i've read that this focus on the self is sort of a Western phenomenon, the individual, the ego, and from what i understand, the self and the ego identity is not all that important.
I find that the self/god awareness stuff just sort of inflates egos, which i believe is missing the intended mark.
How is Yoga (and I'm assuming that it is) different in India?
I've never been to India.
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| Dear SCT: Please clarify your question. I think you are talking about the idea that 'We are self and we are God in the ultimatum'. |
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| no question
how are things in India? |
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| Are you saying that in Western Country, self identy and ego are important, and NOT so in India? |
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| No, I don't know what things are like in India, that's why i ask.
Egocentrism and individuality is pretty rampant in the United States.
I personally find this to be a hinderance for overall development.
Edited by SCThornley 2006-05-16 1:59 PM
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| I have actually had some people tell me that many hinuds here - in the west have become like the 'sunday christians'. They go to the temple for show, not for the message being conveyed. Not that EVERYONE is like that - but many who come here get sucked into that way of thinking and behaving.
Is it like that in India Neel? |
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| shnen - 2006-05-16 3:11 PM
I have actually had some people tell me that many hinuds here - in the west have become like the 'sunday christians'. They go to the temple for show, not for the message being conveyed. Not that EVERYONE is like that - but many who come here get sucked into that way of thinking and behaving.
Is it like that in India Neel?
this concept you share really did sour me on organized religion...
i was brought up in the church, and even was a deacon on my 18th birthday, but of course that meant i got exposed to the business of the building, which for me was much different than the spiritual teachings i'd learned, you know-decisions about funding need to be made.
we rented the church to another congregation who had been run out of North Carolina (we found this out later) and of course there was trouble.....and man!! I just found it so shocking that folks in organized religion were so 'falible', so 'human', so not like the images in the classic texts...yeah, i was naive, it made me sad, but i got over it.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | shnen - 2006-05-16 3:11 PM
I have actually had some people tell me that many hinuds here - in the west have become like the 'sunday christians'. They go to the temple for show, not for the message being conveyed. Not that EVERYONE is like that - but many who come here get sucked into that way of thinking and behaving.
Is it like that in India Neel?
Shen,
Actually, there are lots of Indians that go to the temple, not really to show, but to be "proudy" and some use their money to throw around to the temples as if they were really important and then treat others as if they are peons. They think the more money they give that Laxmi will bless them with even more. This happens in every culture, and I going to be very frank and say that this is the type of behavior comes from people who have just recently come into some type of "boon" of prosperity and wealth...this is how they act, because they've never had anything before and is a show of EGO and Pride. This is typical HUMAN behavior - period. Not just in India, but everywhere. Right now it is happening in Asia because the area has gone from being basically poor to prosperous due to the fair trading and outsourcing that has taken place over the years. If you ask me, I think it is going to ruin these countries and there will be nothing authentic left.
At the temple I go to, there are all kinds of people like this. Some are very rude and cruel to the priests and it drives me nuts watching their behavior. The priests are so kind and sweet, and really don't deserve this nonsense. This one head priest told one of our friends who was so frustrated with a lady who's husband is on the board. He told our friend not to worry about this BS (yes he said these exact words), to just do God's work, don't pay attention to these people and everything will be okay. This was so profound.
Going to a temple is not about receiving messages, it is about receiving blessings, which pave the way for good karma so that we can enlighten ourselves and be done with this earth. Our job is to not be attached to this world and the things going on here, it is about helping and assisting one another, doing our work and community involvment, whatever that may be for the individual. It is not the same as attending sunday school in America, it is totally different. I feel great, refreshed and joyful when I go to the temple...I feel like crap and no energy when I go to church.
In India and Nepal, most people are traditional Hindu's, therefore, they have such a richness about them that makes it so unique and more condusive and complete for a human life, IMO. I'm so fortunate to have a husband like Satyam and his family, they are so dear to me. They are everything I've always wished for in my own family and the closeness is so incredible, compared to this western culture. In fact, my family has learned so much from mine and Sam's relationship, that it has given a new meaning to our lives. So, yes, in India it is a different way of life, it is an extremely rich culture.
If you want to learn about yoga philosophy here in the west, Swami Jyotrimayananda has a yoga journal magazine that is published monthly. It's only $2 an issue, which is so cheap compared to the priceless information that is in it. In fact, I get excited to see it in my mailbox. It is very good. He speaks really good and clear to westerners. You can find him at http://www.yrf.org/ You would enjoy reading his articles and his web site too.
Edited by Cyndi 2006-05-16 5:57 PM
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| Cyndi - 2006-05-16 5:52 PM
This happens in every culture, and I going to be very frank and say that this is the type of behavior comes from people who have just recently come into some type of "boon" of prosperity and wealth...this is how they act, because they've never had anything before and is a show of EGO and Pride. This is typical HUMAN behavior - period. Not just in India, but everywhere. Right now it is happening in Asia because the area has gone from being basically poor to prosperous due to the fair trading and outsourcing that has taken place over the years. If you ask me, I think it is going to ruin these countries and there will be nothing authentic left.
oh, look at that.....
and would you believe my brother in law works for Accenture, used to be a part of Authur Anderson before they split off, this company is responsible for a lot of the outsourcing that is ending up in India.
He flies to India a lot, to meet with his people managers in India.
The people in India are willing to work for a fraction of what the folks in the USA are. Their cost of living and standard of living is much different, and the labor situation in India is much different than it is here in the states.
He also set up a lot of the Verizon work in the Phillipines. Man, you want to see some sadness, you should see how they live in Manilla.
A verizon worker in the USA would make $60,000/year, but in the Phillipines $18,000 will buy you the best educated that country has to offer. And on paper, they are better educated than the american.
Well anyway back to ego/self realization/god realization
I wonder, do they have labor unions in India?
Probably not, but maybe someone who knows could tell me. |
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| Snhen: I have actually had some people tell me that many hinuds here - in the west have become like the 'sunday christians'. They go to the temple for show, not for the message being conveyed. Not that EVERYONE is like that - but many who come here get sucked into that way of thinking and behaving.
Is it like that in India Neel? And, SCT: Are there labor unions in India? ETC.
===> The Indians who came to USA did NOT at all come for anything related to Spirituality. There is NOTHING in USA which can add to spirituality in India that Indians need to find in USA. However, they come for a) better material lifestyle such as houses, roads, libraries, and so on. b) studying a particular type in Higher Learning centers such as Harward, CalTech, MIT, etc. (The Institute I studied called IIT, is more difficult to get admission today than getting in MIT. But, MIT is in USA and at the same time gives better lifestyle) c) curiosity to live in a foreign place with better life style and multicultural setup.ETC.
But, common to all these is better life style associated with dollar value. Now, after they come here and satisfy their wish, they find that they are missing a) cultural programs b) social company c) at least minimum intro to Indian cultural, spiritual values for their children. They also experience this truely and even get scared that they may loose this. They also suffer psychologically from this.
Now, what they did is they built temples which provide mainly socio cultural platform where they perform functions of art, dance, music, social get togethers, weddings, thread ceremonies, birthdays, naming ceremonies, etc. And, all these functions in India have spiritual side to it which is performed in these temples in addition to festivities.
Also, some are truely interested in Spirituality. But, they are mostly interested in keepig culture for their children. So, they have inherited the concept of Sunday School, idea of Services, etc from Western settings, and they follow this in the same way. This includes the Stupidest idea of asking for donation at the beginning of service and then announcing the names of the donors alongwith the amounts they donated.
Lastly, in India NO such thing exists. In India, temples are open most of the day. People come and go and they worship the deity without sometimes priests knowing it. The concept of priest in India is a person who keeps the deities and the temple surrounding clean, and chants to keep the sound vibrations, etc. Donation box is kept, but there is NO pressure to give donation. This is the general condition, and there are millions of small temples in India, possibly billions. I am not talking about exceptions, but only general idea.
===> Yes, there are labor unions in India and they are still acive. I pray the greediness of capitalistic mentality does not enter Indian or any other society which has reduced the average person's life to that of educated slavery. I am sure we can all overcome this by taking care of ourselves, by working not more than 4 to 6 hours a day, by doing Yoga more than 1 hour a day, not eating junk food, using car minimum, and living in the smallest possible house and eating the highest quality food, and sleeping at least 8 hours a day. ETC.
Peace. |
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| Hi,
From what I understand, many Eastern cultures (regardless of religion or no religion) are less focused on "individual rights" and more on the "common good". "Ego", however, as we understand it, remains a problem pretty much everywhere. Just the belief that there is this solid, unchanging "me" is bound to cause suffering. Yoga practice is different. One of the psychiatrists at the hospital where I work was from India and he told me,"There's no 'put your right foot behind the left side of your neck, then lift your hips upward off the mat.'" He said one teacher had them practice just Savasana for 3 months straight, came in and looked at them and said, "No, not relaxed enough. Three more months for you." Also, teacher training is different. You would live at your ashram 24/7 in most cases.
All religions, philosophies, practices have people who are very serious and others who just perform rituals in a rote manner. Everything is what you make it.
Om Shanti. |
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| kulkarnn - 2006-05-17 10:36 PM===> Yes, there are labor unions in India and they are still acive. I pray the greediness of capitalistic mentality does not enter Indian or any other society which has reduced the average person's life to that of educated slavery. I am sure we can all overcome this by taking care of ourselves, by working not more than 4 to 6 hours a day, by doing Yoga more than 1 hour a day, not eating junk food, using car minimum, and living in the smallest possible house and eating the highest quality food, and sleeping at least 8 hours a day. ETC.
Peace.
I wish that this could be the way,
but educated slavery is the BEST description of how things are that I've heard in a long time
thanks, Neel Kulkarni |
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| Susi - 2006-05-18 12:57 AM
"Ego", however, as we understand it, remains a problem pretty much everywhere. Just the belief that there is this solid, unchanging "me" is bound to cause suffering.
yes, I concur
and I'm feeling that self-realization may be misunderstood in the United States, but this i don't know, because i'm not in others' minds
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| Thanks dear SCT: I know it well. Because, I myself was an educated slave for 20 years! Who knows slavery better than a slave! |
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| kulkarnn - 2006-05-18 9:42 AM
Thanks dear SCT: I know it well. Because, I myself was an educated slave for 20 years! Who knows slavery better than a slave!
I affectionately call it
wage slavery
but your explanation rings just as true  |
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| I guess people just want to believe a place exists where everyone is spiritual - you are right Neel - not everyone has spiritual motivation...
Lets all run away and buy an island and be spiritual! ;) |
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| shnen - 2006-05-18 10:32 AM
I guess people just want to believe a place exists where everyone is spiritual - you are right Neel - not everyone has spiritual motivation...
Lets all run away and buy an island and be spiritual! ;)
when i was in 7th grade i dreamed of this
but
then i read 'lord of the flies' |
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This includes the Stupidest idea of asking for donation at the beginning of service and then announcing the names of the donors alongwith the amounts they donated.
I agree. I've been to a number of churches when I was (much) younger, and they strongly encourage donations, but also completely anonymous donations, or in envelopes so you had no idea what the other guy had given. Anything else is NOT christian, since Jesus made a huge point of pointing out how people's means effects the real size of their giving. In other words it's much harder for a poor person to give $100, than a rich one to give $10000. |
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| "There's no 'put your right foot behind the left side of your neck, then lift your hips upward off the mat.'" He said one teacher had them practice just Savasana for 3 months straight, came in and looked at them and said, "No, not relaxed enough. Three more months for you."
Hi Susi, thanks, that was funny! Savasana is my favorite.
Bella |
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self?
