YogiSource.com my account | view cart | customer service
 Search:    
Welcome to the new Yoga.com Forums home!
For future visits, link to "http://www.YogiSource.com/forums".
Make a new bookmark.
Tell your friends so they can find us and you!

Coming soon ... exciting new changes for our website, now at YogiSource.com.

Search | Statistics | User Listing View All Forums
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )



Christian conflict
Moderators: Moderators

Jump to page : 1 2
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Yoga -> Philosophy and ReligionMessage format
 
crystalclear
Posted 2006-06-23 12:23 PM (#56688)
Subject: Christian conflict


I'm looking for other Christ followers who also do Dahn yoga. I love many of the benefits of my training (ie. physical health, taking quiet times more (being still), "watching" and making more conscious choices etc.). The intestinal breathing exercises have improved my health, leveled my emotions (fire down, water up) and generally been an amazing improvement for me. My husband has seen good improvements, too....those previously indicated and generally being "nicer" which comes from my "watching". Somehow after nearly a year of doing Dahn yoga, I still struggle with some of the principles of Dahn Healing that conflict with my Christian beliefs.

I get a strange sense about the masters (my gut feeling, I guess) that finding your true self is EVERYTHING to eternal life! One has said that to me before. For me, I could do all the training in the world but it is only by God's grace that I am saved and in my trust in Him will I live eternally.

Another principle I don't agree with is "Life is suffering." While I know there is suffering in the world (and at various times in my own life), I believe that God created us in His image and for His pleasure. I believe that He loves us so much; He dances over us (Zeph 3:17). So I frankly don't understand nor agree with this "life is suffering" philosophy.

When asked life questions by trainers like, "What's the purpose of life?" I continually go back to "it's not about me, it's all about Him and living my life for Jesus". While I continually am trying to improve my life (ie. staying healthy, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually), ultimately life is about moving towards Him.....and yet at the same time, I'm learning far more at Dahn yoga about humility, letting go of ego, keeping a sense of humor, "being still" etc. And so I feel like I'm in a struggle.

Have you been able to combine the two? Jesus and Dahn training? I'd be interested in your experience. Thanks.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Rhachel
Posted 2006-06-23 12:35 PM (#56691 - in reply to #56688)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict


I'm agnostic but from what I read on these boards, most people find Dahn yoga kind of shady. Maybe try a different kind of yoga and see if you feel as conflicted. I know that Dahn is supposed to be very different than other styles of yoga but you may find that you get the same feelings of stillness without the struggle.

Hope that helps
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Peter Mac
Posted 2006-06-24 12:14 AM (#56713 - in reply to #56688)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict


Somehow after nearly a year of doing Dahn yoga, I still struggle with some of the principles of Dahn Healing that conflict with my Christian beliefs.



Yoga is a practice of the Hindus but has become highly secularized in the USA. Just do Yoga for physical benefits if you have a problem with the religious aspects. I was raised a Christian, but without realizing it I became attracted to the Hindu religion primarily because of Yoga. Perhaps you should focus on just being open minded as you consider new philosophies. when you tie yourself to a certain perspective you'll miss out on many opportunities and many new ideas.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
tourist
Posted 2006-06-24 9:55 AM (#56721 - in reply to #56713)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
50002000100010010010010025
Yoga is not "secularized in the USA." It has always been a spiritual practice as opposed to a religious practice. Dahn - if you consider their practice to be yoga, which is debatable, is a whole other ball o' wax. I would think that fundamentalist Christians would have a LOT of trouble with Dahn and would do themselves a big favour by finding another style of yoga to practice.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
bstqltmkr
Posted 2006-06-24 12:24 PM (#56725 - in reply to #56688)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict


My own personal faith is that while we are here, we are meant to learn the lessons available to us here. Religion seems to be a study of possible theories that could happen to us afterwards. I see Jesus as a holy man, and respect his teachings. I can also hear wisdom in the teachings from other religions, but am sceptical of any theory on the "afterlife". I believe that we do carry on as some form of energy, with some type of knowledge of what we learned while we were here. Other than that I'm ignorant, as in uninformed, not as in stupid. I know some theories, and have visioned a few myself, but personally I love the whole mystery. There are plenty of mysteries here everyday, and so I am also sceptical of a belief in pure science. I believe in my human nature, and so I will contradict myself. That's okay though, because when you contradict yourself, I will know that you are just seeing things from another angle. That ability would be considered a plus side on a debate team. Keeping in mind that those are my opinions on religion, here are my opinions on your question:

Finding you true self, and believing in the grace of your god is no conflict. Your true self can believe in your god, and yoga will be no threat to that.

Life is suffering. Life is pleasure. Life is conflict. Life is peace. Life is temporary. Life is eternal. Life is beauty. Life is ugly. Life is hunger. Life is contentment. .........

What is the purpose in life? That's a personal question, and only you can answer it. Anyone can ask you, but only you can answer. I've found my purpose, but that's today, tomorrow is another story, but I'm living for today. Jesus had humility, and ego, and a sense of humor, so I don't think he would have a conflict with your yoga practice. Can religion handle it? I can't say.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
kulkarnn
Posted 2006-06-24 4:36 PM (#56738 - in reply to #56688)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict


crystalclear - 2006-06-23 12:23 PM

I'm looking for other Christ followers who also do Dahn yoga. I love many of the benefits of my training (ie. physical health, taking quiet times more (being still), "watching" and making more conscious choices etc.). The intestinal breathing exercises have improved my health, leveled my emotions (fire down, water up) and generally been an amazing improvement for me. My husband has seen good improvements, too....those previously indicated and generally being "nicer" which comes from my "watching". Somehow after nearly a year of doing Dahn yoga, I still struggle with some of the principles of Dahn Healing that conflict with my Christian beliefs.

I get a strange sense about the masters (my gut feeling, I guess) that finding your true self is EVERYTHING to eternal life! One has said that to me before. For me, I could do all the training in the world but it is only by God's grace that I am saved and in my trust in Him will I live eternally.

Another principle I don't agree with is "Life is suffering." While I know there is suffering in the world (and at various times in my own life), I believe that God created us in His image and for His pleasure. I believe that He loves us so much; He dances over us (Zeph 3:17). So I frankly don't understand nor agree with this "life is suffering" philosophy.

When asked life questions by trainers like, "What's the purpose of life?" I continually go back to "it's not about me, it's all about Him and living my life for Jesus". While I continually am trying to improve my life (ie. staying healthy, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually), ultimately life is about moving towards Him.....and yet at the same time, I'm learning far more at Dahn yoga about humility, letting go of ego, keeping a sense of humor, "being still" etc. And so I feel like I'm in a struggle.

Have you been able to combine the two? Jesus and Dahn training? I'd be interested in your experience. Thanks.


Before I write any response to this, I must ask the following questions:

a) Is the originial questioner looking for response ONLY from a person who does both Dahn and Christianity? In that case, I do not need to respond.

b) Is the questioner's Dahn training asking them questions or giving suggestions such as 'Life is misery', etc. etc.

But, I also want to correct the questioner that there is NO such as thing as Dahn Yoga. There is ONLY Yoga. And, all others are some offshoots or styles of Instructions, etc. So, the questioner has to know what Yoga is, what the offshoot is, what Yoga is NOT, etc. before making any conclusions.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Peter Mac
Posted 2006-06-25 11:30 AM (#56760 - in reply to #56721)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict


I'm not sure whether it's worth my time to respond anymore since half my posts get deleted when I disagree with a moderator, but Yoga is absolutely secularized in the USA.

First of all, what is the definition of secularization? It's remoivng ecclesiastical boundaries and making it worldly. You responded that Yoga has always been spiritual vs. religious. Okay, spirituality and religion are closely related. Removing the spirituality and religious aspects is what what makes Yoga secular!

When you go to your local 24 Hour Fitness do they teach Yoga as a spiritual or religious practice?? Of course not. It's taught as an exercise class just like step aerobics. I never knew Yoga was a spiritual practice until five years after I took my first class. I just thought it was a form of exercise. So if you want to continue to argue Yoga hasn't been secularized in the USA I think there is ample evidence to prove otherwise.

Edited by Peter Mac 2006-06-25 11:31 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
SCThornley
Posted 2006-06-25 12:29 PM (#56762 - in reply to #56760)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict


Peter Mac - 2006-06-25 11:30 AM

I'm not sure whether it's worth my time to respond anymore since half my posts get deleted when I disagree with a moderator, but Yoga is absolutely secularized in the USA.

First of all, what is the definition of secularization? It's remoivng ecclesiastical boundaries and making it worldly. You responded that Yoga has always been spiritual vs. religious. Okay, spirituality and religion are closely related. Removing the spirituality and religious aspects is what what makes Yoga secular!

When you go to your local 24 Hour Fitness do they teach Yoga as a spiritual or religious practice?? Of course not. It's taught as an exercise class just like step aerobics. I never knew Yoga was a spiritual practice until five years after I took my first class. I just thought it was a form of exercise. So if you want to continue to argue Yoga hasn't been secularized in the USA I think there is ample evidence to prove otherwise.


yoga is an exercise, in one way

you may exercise your body,
you may exercise your mind,
you may exercise your soul,

well, the list goes on but, no matter

i've studied yoga for many years and have never known Yoga to be dogmatic.

Secular philosophy tends to be spiritually unsophisticated for this very prevalent characteristic of dogmatism.

i may be splitting hairs, but when you deal in the subtleties of spirit and attempt to dissect them with language it becomes paramount in the discussion to be eloquent and transparent with no reflection of opaqueness.


Spirituality is not religion.

No Religion is large enough to define, nay i say, even describe the reflection of the Lord. Religion is much like what you do to train a dog what time it is to eat from its dish. Therein lies the connection to dogmatic principles of belief.

Spirituality is all encompassing without dogma and without even the reflection of a shadow of the exclusionary precepts that are included in any religion.

Kierkegaard described the difference of these concepts elloquently using terms like Christendom and Religiosity. Further elucidation on the subject would fare well upon inclusion of his essays.

Before there was religion, there was spirit.

Now, if you yearn for spiritual practice then seek and you shall find.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
trikotripod
Posted 2006-06-25 1:06 PM (#56764 - in reply to #56760)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict


Peter Mac - 2006-06-25 11:30 AM

I'm not sure whether it's worth my time to respond anymore since half my posts get deleted when I disagree with a moderator, but Yoga is absolutely secularized in the USA.

First of all, what is the definition of secularization? It's remoivng ecclesiastical boundaries and making it worldly. You responded that Yoga has always been spiritual vs. religious. Okay, spirituality and religion are closely related. Removing the spirituality and religious aspects is what what makes Yoga secular!

When you go to your local 24 Hour Fitness do they teach Yoga as a spiritual or religious practice?? Of course not. It's taught as an exercise class just like step aerobics. I never knew Yoga was a spiritual practice until five years after I took my first class. I just thought it was a form of exercise. So if you want to continue to argue Yoga hasn't been secularized in the USA I think there is ample evidence to prove otherwise.


If you thought yoga was just a physical exercise, then this was your mistake. I wouldn't extend your mistake to the entire US. I've taken many yoga classes in the US over the past 5 years and all focus on the breathing and usually spirituality, some more than others. Even if the instructor doesn't explicitly talk about sprituality, you still get and feel the benefits. This stereotype of US yoga as being some kind of badly taught calisthetics is getting old and overdone. There are many great yoga instructors and programs out there and to act as if they are a rarity is just plain wrong. If you didn't know yoga was a spiritual practice until you took your first class, then this was a good class, right?

Top of the page Bottom of the page
tourist
Posted 2006-06-25 2:45 PM (#56766 - in reply to #56764)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
50002000100010010010010025
Peter Mac - for the record, I have never deleted any of your posts as far as I can recall

I will step back a bit from my comment and say that I was responding based on the idea that yoga was secularized BY the US. So perhaps I was mis-reading your post in a way. What I meant was that it didn't need to be secularized because it was already a secular discipline. Although it was created by Hindus (see Neel's comments about who is and isn't a Hindu but as we see it here, that is how it evolved) it is not a Hindu religious practice anymore than baseball is a Christian practice just because the founders were Christian and they say prayers before the games.

So I don't think the gyms really need to remove spirituality from the asana practice but they do anyway. So be it. But continuing what trikotripod and SCT have said, there is plenty of in-depth, spiritually based yoga in North America. Maybe not at 24 hour fitness, but then there is some disagreement about whether or not they should be allowed to call some of those classes "yoga" at all. All that glitters is not gold. Just 'cause they call it dog pose, doesn't make it yoga.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
nuclear_eggset
Posted 2006-06-25 3:19 PM (#56771 - in reply to #56688)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict


how much of the less purely physical aspects of yoga you get depends on where you get your yoga from. I knew that yoga wasn't a purely physical practice from my very first class, because I had a good teacher and didn't take it in a regular gym. (probably helps I was in southern california and we're awash in that sort of thing. ;-) )
Top of the page Bottom of the page
SCThornley
Posted 2006-06-25 3:28 PM (#56772 - in reply to #56688)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict


? i don't really get the gist of this whole posting

what is Dahn?

what is Dahn Healing?

crystalclear, you sound like you're starting to wake up and live. The Bible and all of it's teachings is still just one book.

Don't limit yourself now that the world is rising up to meet you.

Any philosophy that limits you in the infinite is simply wrong.

There are no limits to our Lord, our Creator.

Take the best of what you can get from what you have to learn from and move forward.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
tourist
Posted 2006-06-25 3:43 PM (#56773 - in reply to #56771)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
50002000100010010010010025
nuclear_eggset - 2006-06-25 12:19 PM
probably helps I was in southern california and we're awash in that sort of thing. ;-) )

Same here in BC

Steve - if you really have nothing to do one day, check out the various Dahn threads.
Top of the page Bottom of the page

Posted 2006-06-28 3:47 PM (#57063 - in reply to #56688)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict


i do not practice dahn yoga, but i do not find that yoga conflicts with any of my christian beliefs. in fact, they enhance them.

*life is suffering* is mirrored by *the wage of sin is death* in essential philosophical construct. If we sin, we cause suffering to ourselves and others.

but, lets take a step back and define or apply what *life* refers to in the context of the statement. the buddhist (and therefore vedic) construct doesn't refer to essential nature (buddhahood or that of God within or being made in God's image) and living from this essential nature as *life* in the sense of the corporeal experience. Instead, there is buddhahood and maya or illusion. much of life in corporal experience is illusion, marked by wrongdoing, misinterpretation and misunderstanding, ignorance, and therefore suffering. This is mirrored in the christian construct as *sins of the flesh* (conceptually that being in body makes us particularly vulnterable to sin). But when one lives from their eseential self (buddha nature, god within, etc), then maya or illusion is dispelled and we live free of sin and therefore in a state of bliss--whether we're corporeal or not (nirvana in the corporal experience; parinirvana in the non-corporal experience). this is analogous to the concept of sainthood and heaven in christianity.

hopefully, this helps to clarify the situation for you.

also, to reflect what tourist wrote, yoga is a spiritual practice and discipline which can be applied to any religious context--just like multiple religions pray, meditate, have group worship, scriptural study, etc. Simply, they have different images of the divine to which they pray, etc. So, yoga can be applied to any religion, without taking notice of the historical or religious context from which it arises. So, you needn't accept anything from the vedic religions, and still practice yoga for spiritual development within your own spiritual context (in this case, christianity).
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Phoenix
Posted 2006-06-28 3:59 PM (#57067 - in reply to #56721)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict


tourist - 2006-06-24 9:55 AM

Yoga is not "secularized in the USA." It has always been a spiritual practice as opposed to a religious practice. Dahn - if you consider their practice to be yoga, which is debatable, is a whole other ball o' wax. I would think that fundamentalist Christians would have a LOT of trouble with Dahn and would do themselves a big favour by finding another style of yoga to practice.


Tourist,
will you explain more about how yoga is a spiritual practice and not a religious one. I try to explain this myself but have a hard time putting it in words. I would appreciate it if you would explain your perspective on this for my benefit.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
tourist
Posted 2006-06-28 6:51 PM (#57082 - in reply to #57067)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
50002000100010010010010025
Phoenix - to me a spiritual practice enhances your ability to connect with the Divine or whatever you happen to call it. In my mind, a spiritual practice will be good for anyone, whether or not they consider themselves religious. Going to the top of a mountain once a month and breathing in the air will benefit your spirit whether or not you want it to and whether or not you go to church. Religion has rules and teachings and dogma - spirituality does not. For me anyway
Top of the page Bottom of the page
kulkarnn
Posted 2006-06-28 11:17 PM (#57102 - in reply to #57067)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict


Phoenix - 2006-06-28 3:59 PM

tourist - 2006-06-24 9:55 AM

Tourist,
will you explain more about how yoga is a spiritual practice and not a religious one. I try to explain this myself but have a hard time putting it in words. I would appreciate it if you would explain your perspective on this for my benefit.


Well, that depends on how you define Religious Practice. And, how you define Spiritual Practice.
- If you can not define both of them, there is NO problem or question.
- If you can define only one of them, then you should find the definition of the other. And, then see whether there is a question.
- If you can define both of them, then a question may be relevant. If this is the case, then give both definitions, please.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
tourist
Posted 2006-06-29 10:36 AM (#57133 - in reply to #57102)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
50002000100010010010010025
Well Neel, I am not great at pure definitions but let me give it a whirl...

spirituality - that which feeds, enhances, promotes the spirit. Spiritual practice is that which makes an individual feel in touch with a universal Divine energy, at peace within and with the world.

religion - following the rules, dictates, practices and teachings of a church or other organized body of relgious life.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
kulkarnn
Posted 2006-06-29 2:24 PM (#57154 - in reply to #56688)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict


Thanks Sis Tourist. Actually, I meant Phoenix to give his definitions. But, thanks for yours ones. I shall wait Phoenix's ones. And, then respond at a single time.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Susi
Posted 2006-07-01 11:16 PM (#57331 - in reply to #56688)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict


Let's see...there's a lot of different things here. First of all, there are several Catholic yoga teachers at the studio where I work. They say yoga strengthens their religious beliefs. However, I'm talking about yoga, not asana only. In order to get the full benefits, you need to really practice yoga - yamas, niyamas, asana, pranayama, pratyhara, etc. This is not religion; it's a spiritual practice which people seem to be able to connect with regardless of their religion or if they do not have a formal religion. I looked up that Dahn practice; I don't think it's yoga, at least not as I have ever understood it. I'm not saying it's bad; just that it's not really yoga. The other thing "Life is suffering," - that's one of the 4 Noble Truths of Buddhism. Not yoga. (And no, they're not at all the same.) If you HAD to connect yoga with a formal religion, I would think it would be more easily connectable with Hinduism. But back to "life is suffering" - how anyone can not see the truth in that...Seriously, think about it. All the "fun" things we do - parties with their undercurrent of gossip and jealousy, sports games with people cursing, getting drunk, etc. Really, everything comes to an end...what does that bring? Suffering. No one said it's horrible or unable to be tolerated. Just that it is what it is. Everything changes and we tend to not want anything to change. Okay, so read through the rest of the Noble truths. Buddha never said, sorry, nothing you can do about it. It goes through the causes of suffering and how to live to attain a more enlightened state so you won't be suffering - right understanding, right action, etc. Here's a good example: You're not supposed to steal anything, right? Even someone following this rule very rigidly and maybe wanting something so badly but not stealing it because it's the "wrong" thing to do and you certainly wouldn't want someone stealing from you so it's something you have to put up with. Someone with a more enlightened viewpoint would not even want that material thing. (S)he would be happy with what (s)he already had; there would be no need or even a thought of stealing. That's the real meaning, the real message.
Personally, I really think Jesus traveled to India and brought back the Buddha's message to his own homeland (there are so many similarities in the way things are worded!) but people either misunderstood immediately or over the years, other people changed the implications. (It's much easier to keep people in line with a dualistic religion.) Just my opinion.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Bay Guy
Posted 2006-07-02 10:35 PM (#57435 - in reply to #57331)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict



Expert Yogi

Posts: 2479
2000100100100100252525
Location: A Blue State

One can interpret yoga in many ways, but I think that it is utterly incorrect to assert that, say, "yoga in the US is completely secularized" or that "yoga has always been a spiritual practice but not a religious practice".

The religious foundations of yoga can be found in the Bhagavad Gita and the Yoga Sutras, for example, the former having chapters which deal serially with one form or yoga or another and the latter citing devotion to god (Ishwara) as an element of yoga itself. I agree that there are plenty of yoga teachers in North America who get pretty fuzzy on the religious content of yoga or who simply chose to ignore it, but the historical record is overwhelming: Yoga is a path to union with the Lord. We can debate whether this Lord is of a dual or non-dual nature, but it's simply absurd to assert that yoga has been other than a religious practice in its historical context.

I also disagree specifically with the assertion that yoga in the US is entirely secular. Many of the yoga classes that I attend spend significant time on one's relationship to the divine -- usually, the teachers are saying things like "surrender to the Lord" or "make each asana an offering to god" --- and even when they are not being so specific, the discussion is quite clear on the idea of devotion.  The things that get chanted in yoga classes (even Om or the Invocation to Patanjali) are unambiguously religious in nature -- people just don't take the time to understand the literal meaning of the Sanskrit.

The concepts of yoga can most certainly be adapted to a variety of religions, and to non-religious spiritual practices. It's interesting simply to think about yoga in the context of the religious history of India. That country, originally Hindu, was overtaken for a time by Buddhist thought, then over-run by Muslim conquerors, who ruled for hundreds of years, and who were then displaced by Christians from England as overlords, these last ultimately being tossed out by the Hindus, Muslims, and Buddhists who consistuted the primary population of what was then India. Yoga survived and has been adapted to all these belief systems, all of which are religions.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
kulkarnn
Posted 2006-07-04 11:37 PM (#57676 - in reply to #56688)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict


Hi Brother Bay Guy. BG wrote: The concepts of yoga can most certainly be adapted to a variety of religions, and to non-religious spiritual practices. It's interesting simply to think about yoga in the context of the religious history of India. That country, originally Hindu, was overtaken for a time by Buddhist thought, then over-run by Muslim conquerors, who ruled for hundreds of years, and who were then displaced by Christians from England as overlords, these last ultimately being tossed out by the Hindus, Muslims, and Buddhists who consistuted the primary population of what was then India. Yoga survived and has been adapted to all these belief systems, all of which are religions.

===> In India, there has been ample evidence for thousands of years of the fact that is stated thus:

The Vedic Philosophy has the basis for truth realized by the sages through direct perception via Meditation. This truth has been disseminated via Stories (puranas), Philosophical works (Upanishads, including Bhagavadgita), Sciences (darshanas, including Yogadarshana of Patanjali), Devotional Songs (of Bhaktimarga, such as Vaishnavas, Shaivas, etc.), Numerous Yoga Techniques (such as Tantrism, etc.), offshoots such as Buddhism which used mostly Vedic knowledge with different interpretation, ETC. ETC.

Various invaders, businessmen, cheaters, and religious fanatics have only been able to affect the Indian society mostly economically or culturally without having any effect on the essential Indian Philosophy.

That is why Indian Philosophy is called Sanaatana Dharma (Eternal Philosophy). Dharama is wrongly translated as Religion after the emergence of recent religions such as Buddhism, Christianity and Islam which started with a particular personality as a reference.

When the different cultures and businessmen visited India, the Indian Philosophy absorbed them into itself, because Indian Philosophy is all encompassing. It takes you to the essential nature of everything called brahman, beyond which there is NOTHING to be sought.

sarvam khalu idam brahma.

At current times, the only job for a person is to seek what was already sought by them. Only a method of seeking can differ. This also is already stated in Upanishads.

ekam sat sadvipraa bahdudaa vadanti.

OM shantih shantih shantih
Top of the page Bottom of the page
fechter03
Posted 2006-07-06 1:06 PM (#57927 - in reply to #57133)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 475
100100100100252525
Location: canada
tourist - 2006-06-29 10:36 AM

Well Neel, I am not great at pure definitions but let me give it a whirl...

spirituality - that which feeds, enhances, promotes the spirit. Spiritual practice is that which makes an individual feel in touch with a universal Divine energy, at peace within and with the world.

religion - following the rules, dictates, practices and teachings of a church or other organized body of relgious life.

here is where i get confused because i don't believe yoga is a religious practice. i agree with these definitions but if you go by them then i think yoga as the "complete system" borders on a religious practice as there are "rules" and "teachings" involved. if i say i want to incorporate more of what yoga is in my life besides asana then i would have to follow the eight limbs, which are essentially rules...so, i don't really get it.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
elson
Posted 2006-07-10 4:29 AM (#58194 - in reply to #56688)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict


> I'm looking for other Christ followers who also do Dahn yoga. I love many of the benefits of my training (ie. physical health, taking quiet times more (being still), "watching" and making more conscious choices etc.). The intestinal breathing exercises have improved my health, leveled my emotions (fire down, water up) and generally been an amazing improvement for me. My husband has seen good improvements, too....those previously indicated and generally being "nicer" which comes from my "watching". Somehow after nearly a year of doing Dahn yoga, I still struggle with some of the principles of Dahn Healing that conflict with my Christian beliefs.

Greetings :-)

I am a disciple of Jesus who does alot of yoga. All of us who thoughtfully approach yogic philosophy run into the many incompatibilities in the worldview and basic beliefs of yoga and Christianity. Yogic philosophy assumes that we are god (nonDualistic) vs Christianity, which has a much different theology :-).

I think that the only intellectually honest approach for a Christian is to recognize and reject all of the nonChristian theology in the worldview of yoga. No gods & goddesses, no reincarnation, no "we are god." We must take our theology only from the bible.

Having completely rejected Hinduism, Buddhism, and all pagan beliefs, much good (from a Christian perspective) is left in yoga. As you mention, breathing/concentration/control of the senses techniques can give us greater freedom of action and thought in situations that used to cripple us with anxiety or fear.
Asana is a great time for worship.
Meditation training quiets the mind so our meditation of Jesus can be more pleasing to Him.
Stilling the monkey mind can help us listen with more sensitivity to others.
Greater confidence and courage can be used for Kingdom goals.

All of these benefits are tangible and useful.

> I get a strange sense about the masters (my gut feeling, I guess) that finding your true self is EVERYTHING to eternal life! One has said that to me before. For me, I could do all the training in the world but it is only by God's grace that I am saved and in my trust in Him will I live eternally.

Yes, precisely. "And this is eternal life, to know the Father." Knowing oneself is wonderful, of course, especially seeing God's grace transform a wreck into a beautiful child of God. But really, the only way that knowing oneself could approach the beauty/joy/significance of knowing God is if we were god. And of course, we aren't.

> Another principle I don't agree with is "Life is suffering." While I know there is suffering in the world (and at various times in my own life), I believe that God created us in His image and for His pleasure. I believe that He loves us so much; He dances over us (Zeph 3:17). So I frankly don't understand nor agree with this "life is suffering" philosophy.

ok, well, let's take it to a deeper level. Our life is aobut sanctification - becoming more like God as revealed in Jesus. Add to that the fact that God is in absolute control fo the world. Further add to that that He has said that in all things, He is working for the good of the elect, and you have the conclusion that whatever happens in your life has been brought about by God for your benefit. Some of those good things are hard things, like sickness and pain and loss, but they are all good things, if you are His.

So, life has suffering, and life has joy. To everything there is a season. But all of these things are provided to you by the Father, and they are all for your sanctification. And if we are truely His, then becomming more like Him is high on our want list.

> When asked life questions by trainers like, "What's the purpose of life?" I continually go back to "it's not about me, it's all about Him and living my life for Jesus". While I continually am trying to improve my life (ie. staying healthy, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually), ultimately life is about moving towards Him.....and yet at the same time, I'm learning far more at Dahn yoga about humility, letting go of ego, keeping a sense of humor, "being still" etc. And so I feel like I'm in a struggle.

Yeah. I think that you can trust your discernment on this. You might try a different school of yoga; one that doesn't push the antiChristian themes so strongly.

And don't worry about loosing any "healing" that comes from Dahn yoga.

Cheers......................Dale
Top of the page Bottom of the page
tourist
Posted 2006-07-10 11:01 AM (#58223 - in reply to #58194)
Subject: RE: Christian conflict



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
50002000100010010010010025
elson - 2006-07-09 1:29 AM
seeing God's grace transform a wreck into a beautiful child of God.


Wow - my understanding is that even someone who appears to me to be a "wreck" is already a beautiful child of God.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1 2
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread


(Delete all cookies set by this site)