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Location: London, England | Hi Bruce,
It's 37 degrees here today-I'll finish my last class at 9:30 tonight, and that bottle of beer is going to trickle like nectar down my parched throat.
Nick |
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| 37 degrees C is in the 90's F, right? That is hot for London. It was 117F (that's a big F!) yesterday afternoon. I felt like swimming in a cold beer.
(PS - it was like 400 degrees big F in my car yesterday. It hurt to touch the ignition)
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| They reckon today is going to be even hotter in Britain with temperatures hitting 35 deg C (95 deg F) or more. It's expected to be the hottest July day in 90 years. Tomorrow is expected to see humidity rise with it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5193486.stm
And I've got a 3 hour yoga workshop on Saturday *faints at the thought*.
Now, mr air-con company, where's your fisking quote!!!!
Fee
Edited by Orbilia 2006-07-19 5:59 AM
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| A yoga mat left at a bar. That is hilarious!
When I was younger, I wanted to wear a nun's habit and go out drinking just to see the reaction. Yea, a little warped. |
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| I complete know what you're saying, and am glad that someone else is confirming my suspicion that yoga is lowering my tolerance. Now I am drunk after two drinks, and if I go for 4 I don't want to move the next day.
I have noticed similar affects with foods that have a natural intolerance for such as dairy products and sweets. I had icecream last night, and this morning I feel all logey and a little nautious.
I wonder if this is because are bodies are more sensitive, or because we are learning to pay closer attention to what our bodies are telling us? According to Mr. Iyengar (in some wonderful book or other that he has written), yoga should make our bodies stronger and more able to deal with what we throw at it, so I suspect that we are just more aware of the negative affects our actions have. |
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| I am experiencing the same thing as an American 20-something. It's like people think I am too young to quit drinking and don't want to go out with me if I won't drink (or perhaps they just can't understand why I would want to go out). My solution is to just have a small amount of alcohol (which I enjoy anyway) - like maybe two drinks over the course of a night. I find that people barely notice I'm not drinking as much if I nurse the drinks I have. |
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| Great topic.
Whatever it is for you it is. On a broader scope, yoga is an awareness practice. For many of us it's a case that our reaction hasn't so much changed but our awareness of what alcohol is doing to us is heightened.
There is a second component. That is the issue of balance. A body in balance tends to crave things that move it toward balance. A body out of balance tends to crave things that move it out of balance.
So if you are practicing yoga (not just asana) and your body has come into a better balance, then it would likely crave things keeping it in balance. Alcohol is not one of those things. Your body simply doesn't need it anymore, much prefering the things that have brought you into this balance you now enjoy.
SiriusSpirit - 2006-07-02 6:09 AM
I've heard this before, and now I'm experiencing it myself. My tolerance for alcohol is really changing the deeper my yoga practice. Not only does it take fewer drinks to have an affect on me, but the affect is becoming more negative. I had a few beers at a beachside pub yesterday, came home, and went out like a light around 6 pm. I barely opened my eyes around 10 pm, only to go back to bed for the whole night. It was as if I had been poisoned.
I'm feeling like certain foods and alcohol are more toxic to my body now. |
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| purnayoga - 2006-08-03 1:34 AM
So if you are practicing yoga (not just asana) and your body has come into a better balance, then it would likely crave things keeping it in balance. Alcohol is not one of those things. Your body simply doesn't need it anymore, much prefering the things that have brought you into this balance you now enjoy.
This is a good explaination. Instead of moving AWAY from alcohol, or trying to avoid it, which is a negative state, and hard to maintain, yoga gives you a balance you want to more TOWARD, and alcohol interfers with this.
All that being said, I still have a beer now and then, I just stop a LOT quicker. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
 
| If the "near beers" or non-alcohol beers were as good as the real stuff, I would love it. I wouldn't miss the alcohol a bit. But sometimes a beer is just the best. |
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| Well the yogic path is anything but straight, it's curvy and bendy!
Sometimes you can come off it and go for a little walk, or you can have a picnic by the side of the road. We are human. It's pretty normal to go and have a few drinks or be bad bad bad once in a while if it just happens. The important part is realising that its not great and to come back to the path.
Being told off by fellow yogis just makes it worse I think 
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| DownwardDog - 2006-08-03 1:25 AM
Being told off by fellow yogis just makes it worse I think
 My own fellow yogis are far too wise to do something as silly as that, thank goodness. |
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| DownwardDog - 2006-08-04 4:25 AM
Sometimes you can come off it and go for a little walk, or you can have a picnic by the side of the road. We are human. It's pretty normal to go and have a few drinks or be bad bad bad once in a while if it just happens. The important part is realising that its not great and to come back to the path.
I really don't consider have a few to be off the path, far from it. The people who are completely and utterly NO BEER, are just as much of the drinking game as the people who are drinking constantly. This is part of the problem with AA, though it's definitely better than drinking, it's still a game of sorts.
The idea is NON-attachment, not NO attachment, there's a subtle difference between the two.
If you really want a good description of the way Alcoholic is played, read Eric Berne's book "Games people play"
EDIT: Actually here's a better explaination:
Two Monks and the River
It was early morning, and the two monks set out on their last day's journey back to their monastery.
At mid-morning they came upon a shallow river, and on the bank there stood a beautiful young maiden in a lovely silk kimono.
"May I help you cross?" asked the first Monk. "That way your garment won't get soiled."
"Why, yes, that would be most kind of you," replied the maiden, bowing politely.
So the first Monk hoisted the maiden on his back and carried her across the river. Once across, they bowed and went their separate ways.
A few minutes later, after the maiden was out of earshot, the second Monk said to the first Monk, "I can't believe you did that! I just can't believe it! We take vows of chastity, and you touched a woman. You even asked her! I know that touching a woman doesn't break our vow, but what's the Abbot to think? This is awful."
Several hours passed and the second Monk erupted again. "How could you do that? She didn't even ask. You offered! What are we going to tell the Abbot when we get home? He's going to ask how our journey was, and we can't lie. What are we going to say?"
By late afternoon the two were nearing their monastery, and the second Monk, now filled with anxiety, said, "I can't believe you did that! You touched a woman. You even carried her on your back. We must think of something to tell the Abbot. He's going to be so angry we'll be working in the onion garden for the rest of our lives."
The first Monk stopped, looked at the second Monk and said, " Listen, it's true that I carried that maiden across the river. But I left her at the river bank hours ago. You've been carrying her all day."
Edited by GreenJello 2006-08-04 12:20 PM
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| GreenJello - 2006-08-04 12:16 PM
I really don't consider have a few to be off the path, far from it. The people who are completely and utterly NO BEER, are just as much of the drinking game as the people who are drinking constantly. This is part of the problem with AA, though it's definitely better than drinking, it's still a game of sorts.
The idea is NON-attachment, not NO attachment, there's a subtle difference between the two.
If you really want a good description of the way Alcoholic is played, read Eric Berne's book "Games people play"
EDIT: Actually here's a better explaination:
Two Monks and the River
It was early morning, and the two monks set out on their last day's journey back to their monastery.
At mid-morning they came upon a shallow river, and on the bank there stood a beautiful young maiden in a lovely silk kimono.
"May I help you cross?" asked the first Monk. "That way your garment won't get soiled."
"Why, yes, that would be most kind of you," replied the maiden, bowing politely.
So the first Monk hoisted the maiden on his back and carried her across the river. Once across, they bowed and went their separate ways.
A few minutes later, after the maiden was out of earshot, the second Monk said to the first Monk, "I can't believe you did that! I just can't believe it! We take vows of chastity, and you touched a woman. You even asked her! I know that touching a woman doesn't break our vow, but what's the Abbot to think? This is awful."
Several hours passed and the second Monk erupted again. "How could you do that? She didn't even ask. You offered! What are we going to tell the Abbot when we get home? He's going to ask how our journey was, and we can't lie. What are we going to say?"
By late afternoon the two were nearing their monastery, and the second Monk, now filled with anxiety, said, "I can't believe you did that! You touched a woman. You even carried her on your back. We must think of something to tell the Abbot. He's going to be so angry we'll be working in the onion garden for the rest of our lives."
The first Monk stopped, looked at the second Monk and said, " Listen, it's true that I carried that maiden across the river. But I left her at the river bank hours ago. You've been carrying her all day."
As a man who has stopped drinking permanently, I'm a bit raw on this.
For some folks this non attachment vs. no attachment may work, but not all.
One size does not fit all.
Choosing not to consume alcohol of any sort can be just that, a choice, no matter what the reasons behind it, or the support system that sustains it, once the choice is made.
I'm not a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, AA, but part of the Accelerated Rehabilitative Disposition program that I was eligible for after I was arrested for Drunk Driving was participation in the AA program for like six months, and losing my license for a year.
The lessons that are taught in AA are good ones, if you are prepared to listen.
Some people, like me, should simply choose to not consume alcohol. Some powers are greater than my own control and accepting the truth, no matter how embarresing to my ego it is, was the key to improving my situation for a lifetime, and my past participation in AA was a big part of that recognition.
Some people need AA or some other support system in their lives, that's why they are there.
Some people need other people.
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| SCThornley - 2006-08-04 1:22 PM
As a man who has stopped drinking permanently, I'm a bit raw on this.
Then let's stop talking about it.
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| The value of self reflection that leads to permanent positive change is worth talking about.
I'm just raw on Alcoholism being considered a game that people play.
With some folks it's not a game, but a matter of life and death.
Addiction is not simply a game that people play. Misconception and a lack of honest self analysis leads to the belief that when confronted with the object of ones addiction you have no choice. You always have a choice, that doesn't mean you're not an addict.
Many addicts choose to no longer associate with the object of their addictions once they recognize that the addiction is a destructive force in their lives. I consider this a positive improvement that flows from the spring of honest self analysis.
Some never get to this point.
As far as yoga and booze, it comes down to a personal choice, but then isn't everything?
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| SCThornley - 2006-08-04 8:05 PM
The value of self reflection that leads to permanent positive change is worth talking about.
I'm just raw on Alcoholism being considered a game that people play.
With some folks it's not a game, but a matter of life and death.
Who ever said that games were NOT a matter of life and death?
Often times they form substantian pieces of our character, and lead us to do self-destructive things over and over again. In some cases these self-destructive acts can include things that are very much life and death, or they can be less self-destructive, like somebody who likes to talk about people behind their back.
In a word, it's usually Ego, or that little self that keeps us cut off from the rest of the world.
Addiction is not simply a game that people play. Misconception and a lack of honest self analysis leads to the belief that when confronted with the object of ones addiction you have no choice. You always have a choice, that doesn't mean you're not an addict.
Many addicts choose to no longer associate with the object of their addictions once they recognize that the addiction is a destructive force in their lives. I consider this a positive improvement that flows from the spring of honest self analysis.
Right, but that's not really the game Alcoholic.
My grandfather was an alcoholic for much of his life, but he didn't really play the game Alcoholic because at one point he gave it up, and it stopped defining who he was, or how he interacted with people.
A lot of people who have stopped drinking are still playing Alcoholic because they have to stop EVERYBODY from drinking. They think that alcohol is the root of all evil, and must be stopped. They have a very strong need to tell everybody about their drinking problem, and how it made them a bad person. In short, they're still carrying the woman that the other monk dropped back at the other side of the river. |
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| GJ, you bring up interesting points that people that don't drink *might* be just as consumed with alcohol as an alcoholic. I think that is an exaggeration of what you probably meant, but I think I know what you mean. Like it might be disconcerting that a person cannot stop at one serving of something, whether it be alcohol or ice cream or coffee. Clearly, alcohol, sugar and caffience can have a very strong effect on the body; plus, all 3 substances have addictive qualities. I am no expert, but the more years I have under my belt, the less medicated either with alcohol, sugar or caffiene I want to be. When I have a glass of wine I feel like I'm outside of myself.
But, alcohol, sugar and caffiene can all be enjoyable, too. I think everyone has their own internal clock that alerts them to when it's time to quit.
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| There are a couple of furthered issues now in this thread.
The first is that it's gotten a bit off thread. This isn't an issue about addiction or AA. Not that those aren't valid. They are. But they themselves are not the issue.
I'd like to try and clarify (first I do not drink, I have chosen that, never had a drinking problem, and do not care if you drink).
First we must "weigh the duality". Non drinkers must ask, is this dogma? Is this really in my best interest? Is there something else going on keeping me from doing this or is it truly in my greater good. AND, AND, AND the drinker must explore the same duality...Is there something else going on? Am I doing this consciously? Is this in the best interest of my well being or is there dogma here?
moving along >>>>
Pertinent question: Is your yoga practice a wellness pursuit? If so, have you placed boundaries on the growth or flourishing of your wellness or does it continually expand and blossom? Remember that food is meant to nourish the body and energize it and we've got some real problems with our food supply. So care must be employed.
Some things are not in the best interest of the body. And we can't just go by, "I like beer so it's okay". Otherwise we use that as a justification for "I like cigars..." or I like unprotected sex" or "I like abusing co-workers".
if you've weighed the ramification/consequences of alcohol, (and those do not infringe on the rights of others), and then decided consciously to drink, then who's to say? It's mindful destruction (that which does not support/nourish, destroys) of your own vessel. Your own container of spirit. Why bother with Asana (to heal the body) if you're just going to hit happy hour for margaritas after savasana?
The monk story was superb. But the issue isn't about a Monk who carries a maiden three times a week at Murphy's, now is it? You just have to decide the nature of the vessel your higher self will inhabit. It's **** tough to pursue samadhi as a garbage can. It's not impossible but the yamas, niyamas, and kleshas are there to ready the garbage can for enlightenment (if I may so embelish).
Beer is NOT God's way of telling us that He loves us and wants us to be happy
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| Purna!
Benjamin Franklin is turning in his grave!
But overall, I'd have to agree with the very thrust of what you're saying.
I'd consider Yoga as a path to growth and ultimately freedom, not simply a wellness practice, but that is simply my opinion.
Green Jello,
I see the points of what you are saying and agree that when one has their identity wrapped up in an external object, such as alcohol, it is especially stifling to the development of intelligence and the ultimate liberation of the the self. My great grandfather, on my father's father's side, was such a drinker that those who remember him still can't say much that is nice about him--of course he was quite a lover as well, he and his wife had 13 children.
As my yoga becomes more piercing to the foundation of my true identity I have found that my interest in sugar and caffeine is less and less. My interest in any use of alcohol waned five years ago August 15. Thank GOD. |
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| Purna,
As in all conversations, twists and turns are taken. So, this, indeed, can be a thread about addiction and AA! Everyone's input counts, not just yours.
I am interested in reading people's stories of addiction, struggle, enlightenment and choice.
Thanks, fifi
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| *Fifi* - 2006-08-05 12:41 AM
GJ, you bring up interesting points that people that don't drink *might* be just as consumed with alcohol as an alcoholic. I think that is an exaggeration of what you probably meant, but I think I know what you mean.
Nope, that's pretty much it. It also keeps them from seeing the good side of things. My father doesn't drink, and has never had a drinking problem, as far as I can tell, but he KNOWS that alcohol is EVIL.
The first is that it's gotten a bit off thread. This isn't an issue about addiction or AA. Not that those aren't valid. They are. But they themselves are not the issue.
I've yet to see a thread, or conversation steered by an agenda, those are for work, this is people sharing. Threads veer in and out of topic all the time, on this, and just about every forum I've been on.
I'd also like to point out that alcohol can be HEALTHY for the body. First, is the fact that for much of human history water was NOT good for you, due to all the stuff floating around in it. So for those people drinking beer and wine was a good way to go. Second, homemade beer is an excellent source of B vitamins, and a number of other things. Third, red wine has also been shown to be good for your heart in limited quantity.
The key here is moderation. What is the best approach to the problem at hand. In some cases it's carrying the maiden across the water, in other's it not touching her, or even acknowledging her presence. For Steve it sounds like he's made an excellence choice in deciding not to drink. For me, I think a beer or two now and then is probably also an excellent choice. I don't think that several dozen beers + shots, etc until you can't stand is in ANYBODY's best interest.
It's really easy to just lump it all together, and say it's bad for you, and then condemn everybody else who enjoys it. It's much harder to attempt to deal with the situation on a moment by moment basis. It usually involves stepping outside the simple rules that have been given to us, and thinking for ourselves, and dealing with the situation as it is. Not how we'd like it to be, not how it would win the argument, not how it would allow us to condemn the other guy as wrong, but as things *really* are. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| I am awaiting the day that my practice takes me away from sugar. I have the feeling the past few days that a good deal of my sugar craving comes from anger and defiance. I don't like that I can't eat what I want to eat when I want to eat it due to my digestive troubles. It makes me a little crazy when my spouse has a quick bite at 8:30 pm and I can't join him. Well, I can't join him to even eat supper if it is past about 4:00 in the afternoon  Although it makes for many opportunties for delightful family brunches (we are going for brunch with our daughter on Sunday and I so looking forward to it!), it is not the same as sharing an evening meal. One thing I can digest late at night (i.e.past 6 pm) is semi-liquid foods (ice cream!) and sugar (popsicles, hard candy, too much sugar in herb tea) and I am using that as an excuse to eat more of it. I am suffering the poundage added and surely the other problems associated with sugar. PMS makes it worse. Well, I certainly have lots to meditate on and ponder....
And to go back to alcohol and simplistic rules....I'll never forget the day my 8 year old son saw me drinking a coffee (or something) in the car and spouted "Mommy, you know you shouldn't drink and drive!" 
Edited by tourist 2006-08-05 11:33 AM
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| Yes you're right Fifi.
I was simply thinking of Steve and his dilemna.
*Fifi* - 2006-08-05 6:41 AM
Purna,
As in all conversations, twists and turns are taken. So, this, indeed, can be a thread about addiction and AA! Everyone's input counts, not just yours.
I am interested in reading people's stories of addiction, struggle, enlightenment and choice.
Thanks, fifi
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| Hey Purna,
Enough of me!
Argh! The sugar addiction!! Very insidious.
Bummer about your dad's attitude regarding alcohol, GJ.
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| I don't care about alcohol anymore, but at one time I did.
Today I'm completely satisfied to not consume alcohol, and my yoga has been a huge part of the self analysis that took me to this point.
I'm glad to hear about the best wines and beers on the market or the best single malt scotch and the depth of craftmanship that goes into making these flavorful masterpieces, and a part of me wishes that I could simply enjoy a sip, however my blood is such that alcohol reacts and something happens that I don't understand.
So I just don't drink anymore, and haven't for 5 years August 15.
Red grapes have all the benefits of red wine without the alcohol.
Today we have clean water.
I don't have a good reason to risk my behavior or lack of self control and try alcohol again.
But, I'm so glad to see that everyone else can enjoy it responsibly.
An hour to two hours of yogasana doesn't leave me any time to drink like I used to, either.
I still have some homebrew I make six years ago in the basement, bottled and in the carboy.
Both are belgian ales. I'd venture a guess to say that belgian ales are the most complex beers that there are to taste.
The craftsmanship of the belgian ale maker is great.
Edited by SCThornley 2006-08-05 2:46 PM
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yoga & booze
