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Circumcision News
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   Wellness -> Men's HealthMessage format
 
Orbilia
Posted 2006-07-11 5:16 AM (#58268)
Subject: Circumcision News


I think I recall an interesting topic on male circumcision being posted here in the past? If it was this site, I thought you may be interested in a news story I just read :

* Circumcision 'could cut HIV risk' *
Male circumcision could significantly reduce the burden of HIV in Africa, a study suggests.
Full story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/-/1/hi/health/5165118.stm

Fee
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Nick
Posted 2006-07-12 1:59 AM (#58336 - in reply to #58268)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News



20005001002525
Location: London, England
Hi Fee,
We'll all send you our foreskins and you can use them as napkin rings
Nick
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SCThornley
Posted 2006-07-12 8:32 AM (#58342 - in reply to #58336)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News


Nick - 2006-07-12 1:59 AM

Hi Fee,
We'll all send you our foreskins and you can use them as napkin rings
Nick


mine is long gone, since birth

circumcision is fairly common in the USA, even the medical books don't show the foreskin as a part of the male reproductive organ{at least the ones i've seen}

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Nick
Posted 2006-07-12 2:29 PM (#58386 - in reply to #58342)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News



20005001002525
Location: London, England
Hi Steven
I'll send you my napkin ring, but it will mean Fee doesnt have a full set
Nick
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SCThornley
Posted 2006-07-12 2:41 PM (#58390 - in reply to #58386)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News


Nick - 2006-07-12 2:29 PM

Hi Steven
I'll send you my napkin ring, but it will mean Fee doesnt have a full set
Nick


Ehh, that's ok, we can take up a collection and direct all proceeds in her direction.

We use paper towels at my dinner table and it's been ages since the good china was taken out of the cabinet.
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Nick
Posted 2006-07-12 2:56 PM (#58396 - in reply to #58390)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News



20005001002525
Location: London, England
Hi Steven,
Are 'good china' and cabinet' american expressions that I'm not familiar with?
Nick
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SCThornley
Posted 2006-07-12 3:17 PM (#58404 - in reply to #58396)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News


Nick - 2006-07-12 2:56 PM

Hi Steven,
Are 'good china' and cabinet' american expressions that I'm not familiar with?
Nick


O i wish!
wouldn't that be something
i'm really talking about china sets, dinner place settings, actual napkins and paper towels.

boring stuff....

all sex stuff happens in the bedroom in my home....but there's already four children so far, so no more unprotected activity will occur 'cause four is plenty enough for me and my wife....i hope.

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Nick
Posted 2006-07-12 3:23 PM (#58405 - in reply to #58404)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News



20005001002525
Location: London, England
Hi Steven,
Yeah, sounds like you need to keep your napkin firmy in the drawer just one kid is a challenge, four must be like a cyclone
Nick
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SCThornley
Posted 2006-07-12 3:31 PM (#58406 - in reply to #58268)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News


Well sir, Nick
it's always a storm a brewin'

but, I love each and every one of my little storms.

sometimes i think everyone should experience this, and then i think twice and realize that not everybody is 'cut out' for parenthood.

like Darwin said, "survival of the fittest"
and
like Bob Marley said, "only the fittest of the fittest shall survive"

but aren't these both extremely materialist philosophies, identifying our soul with the flesh?

whatever, i stacked the deck in my favor as best i could and 4 is plenty enough for me.

Edited by SCThornley 2006-07-12 3:33 PM
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Nick
Posted 2006-07-12 3:46 PM (#58411 - in reply to #58406)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News



20005001002525
Location: London, England
Hi Steven,
My son is the the most wonderful thing I have ever experienced-nothing comes close. I love him and take deligth in his existence with a ferocity that is astounding to me. And his mum, my ex, is taking him to the other side of the world in less than two months. It's like someone ripping a hole in your chest then p*ssing in it. I cannot describe the pain of not seeing him every day, and they live about a mile away-I am not looking forward to him being in Australia, and me in England. If i ever seem peeved, well, forgive me. I get a sense that you know what I'm talking about, you evidently love your kids and wife very much. I wish you the best, lap them up and wallow in the love that you have for them.
Nick
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SCThornley
Posted 2006-07-12 3:54 PM (#58414 - in reply to #58268)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News


MAN! Nick,

Australia, huh?

that's quite a whallop to have to roll with.

well, you never can tell what the future holds, keep your hopes up.
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Orbilia
Posted 2006-07-13 9:42 AM (#58524 - in reply to #58336)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News


'Scuse me, what did I do to cause this reaction? The topic thread I remember stuck with me as I was surprised at how many American men were snipped (it doesn't happen much in the UK outside of certain Religious groups) and at their feelings of mutiliation over it. I posted this link as something positive on the subject and I don't mean HIV positive.

Did anyone actually read the article?

Fee

Nick - 2006-07-12 6:59 AM

Hi Fee,
We'll all send you our foreskins and you can use them as napkin rings
Nick
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SCThornley
Posted 2006-07-13 9:58 AM (#58527 - in reply to #58524)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News


Orbilia - 2006-07-13 9:42 AM

'Scuse me, what did I do to cause this reaction? The topic thread I remember stuck with me as I was surprised at how many American men were snipped (it doesn't happen much in the UK outside of certain Religious groups) and at their feelings of mutiliation over it. I posted this link as something positive on the subject and I don't mean HIV positive.

Did anyone actually read the article?

Fee


i read it

and i noticed your intent.

most americans are circumcised at birth--we're told it is 'cleaner' that way


but would it make AIDs and HIV less common?
i don't know even after reading the article i'm not completely convinced.

i'm not sure i buy the whole origin of AIDs and HIV in the first place, but it would be better if these diseases didn't exist, but they do.


Edited by SCThornley 2006-07-13 10:03 AM
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Orbilia
Posted 2006-07-13 10:12 AM (#58531 - in reply to #58527)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News


Thanks SC.

I must admit I was surprised by the article too. I know that the HIV virus is considered 'fragile' and not particularly safe from attack outside of the human body. I wonder if ordinary washing is sufficient to destroy it? If so, perhaps circumcision facilitates easier personal hygiene, especially in places like Africa when so many have limited access to water in the first place?

Fee

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*Fifi*
Posted 2006-07-13 10:53 AM (#58540 - in reply to #58268)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News


Interesting article. I worked with the full spectrum of HIV/AIDS when I was in SF (in the Castro District, no less). This certainly does not make me an expert in HIV/AIDS but it was quite an education to be there with an individual when he (usually he but also she many times) finds out he is HIV+, then watching HIV turn into AIDS, watching AIDS take over the body, etc...pretty awful.

I bet circumcision won't curb AIDS/HIV anywhere. Look at all the men in the Castro in AMERICA that died of AIDS in the 80s and 90s. I would bet they were circumsized.

Really, only abstinence curbs the spread of HIV/AIDS.

Steve Thornley, living in the Bay Area, I heard many different theories for the causes of HIV/AIDS. They were all interesting and who knows, maybe we'll find out they are correct. What are your thoughts on this?

HIV is very fragile outside of the body. Hepatitis C is another story. HCV freaks me out. HIV doesn't. I've had tons of acupuncture performed by my HIV+ (gay) boyfriend/study buddy in SF and I've given him lots of acupuncture, too. And I still donate my HIV NEGATIVE blood regularly.
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*Fifi*
Posted 2006-07-13 10:55 AM (#58541 - in reply to #58268)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News


This is a weird thread for this but, Nick, I am sorry you'll be separated from your son. It is apparent how painful this is for you. I hope he returns safe and sound very soon! fifi
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Nick
Posted 2006-07-13 11:06 AM (#58545 - in reply to #58531)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News



20005001002525
Location: London, England
Hi Fiona,
I read the article, but maybe not deeply enough-whu does circumcision cut HIV rates-and does it have to be done in infancy? I'm presuming that the circumcision was done on infants, so i cant understand how they got the data. I'll read it again, back later
Nick
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Nick
Posted 2006-07-13 11:08 AM (#58546 - in reply to #58541)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News



20005001002525
Location: London, England
Hi Fi,
Not for at least six years, probably eight, maybe never-we'll see how the young man feels. Thank you for caring
Take care
Nick
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SCThornley
Posted 2006-07-13 11:11 AM (#58547 - in reply to #58540)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News


*Fifi* - 2006-07-13 10:53 AM

Interesting article. I worked with the full spectrum of HIV/AIDS when I was in SF (in the Castro District, no less). This certainly does not make me an expert in HIV/AIDS but it was quite an education to be there with an individual when he (usually he but also she many times) finds out he is HIV+, then watching HIV turn into AIDS, watching AIDS take over the body, etc...pretty awful.

I bet circumcision won't curb AIDS/HIV anywhere. Look at all the men in the Castro in AMERICA that died of AIDS in the 80s and 90s. I would bet they were circumsized.

Really, only abstinence curbs the spread of HIV/AIDS.

Steve Thornley, living in the Bay Area, I heard many different theories for the causes of HIV/AIDS. They were all interesting and who knows, maybe we'll find out they are correct. What are your thoughts on this?

HIV is very fragile outside of the body. Hepatitis C is another story. HCV freaks me out. HIV doesn't. I've had tons of acupuncture performed by my HIV+ (gay) boyfriend/study buddy in SF and I've given him lots of acupuncture, too. And I still donate my HIV NEGATIVE blood regularly.


well, growing up around Washington, D.C. and learning about and actually working on some of the facilities that do a lot of the chemical warfare and biological warfare work has certainly formed my opinions on the origins of many infectious diseases.

the notion that AIDs comes from men sleeping with monkeys is at the very least 'hard to believe', while at the same time believing that it is the result of a well planned, funded, and easily verified program [congressional records state] that existed, and by all accounts continues to exist is simply too horrible to honestly fathom.

Really, considering the actual evidence that exists opens up a whole can of worms that simply turns my stomach and makes me sick.

The conditions that politically marginal people dealt with in the past and continue to deal with today and will continue to deal with in the future is simply astounding.

The conditions of the colonial Congo could have resulted in something like AIDs, however that theory that AIDS could be a biological weapon that 'got out' is also just as plausible.

Even Lymes Disease was used as an incapacitating bioweapon in WWII. Lots of biowarfare throughout history is so unsavory, that we just want to pretend that it never happened.




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tourist
Posted 2006-07-13 11:13 AM (#58548 - in reply to #58546)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News



Expert Yogi

Posts: 8442
50002000100010010010010025
Nick - this will be no comfort whatsoever at this point but they do all leave us eventually. The difference when they are older is you can see them outgrowing the little family unit and sense the deep need for them to go out in the big wide world for themselves. As a child I was separated from my father, not such a physical distance but it may as well have been. He was killed in a car crash when I was 13. There is still a big, deep, wide hole in my heart about it all. Get a web cam, email, write letters and do EVERYTHING you can to stay in touch. and save your pennies for trips to Oz
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Orbilia
Posted 2006-07-13 11:32 AM (#58550 - in reply to #58540)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News


Just given my 30th unit *Hi 5's you*!

Fee


And I still donate my HIV NEGATIVE blood regularly.
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Orbilia
Posted 2006-07-13 11:47 AM (#58552 - in reply to #58550)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News


National Geographic have more on this research :

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0726_050726_circumcision_2.html

Apparently foreskin tissue is more vulnerable to HIV transmission than the tissues of the penile body itself, both from mechnical damage during intercourse and due to a certain cell type prevalent in foreskin tissue.

Circumcision would also appear to reduce the liklihood of catching several other diseases too.

Fee

Edited by Orbilia 2006-07-13 11:51 AM
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SCThornley
Posted 2006-07-13 12:05 PM (#58554 - in reply to #58552)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News


Orbilia - 2006-07-13 11:47 AM

National Geographic have more on this research :

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0726_050726_circumcision_2.html

Apparently foreskin tissue is more vulnerable to HIV transmission than the tissues of the penile body itself, both from mechnical damage during intercourse and due to a certain cell type prevalent in foreskin tissue.

Circumcision would also appear to reduce the liklihood of catching several other diseases too.

Fee


Then why not!!!

promote it.

i was circumcised at birth and had no idea there was any big deal about it until recently.

if it will improve the general health of the populace then it should be promoted that way through public education programs and offered at birth.

i'd have no arguements against promoting this practice for the sake of improved health


i think it's a good thing

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Orbilia
Posted 2006-07-13 12:19 PM (#58555 - in reply to #58554)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News


I was quite surprised by the number of men (often American) who posted that they considered their circumcision mutilation and very much disliked having had it done to them. I've only ever met one man I knew was circumcised and that only recently. He loves being that way and remembers not being as he was not done until age 6 (medical necessity due to not having been educated on how to pull back properly).

Fee

Edited by Orbilia 2006-07-13 12:20 PM
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*Fifi*
Posted 2006-07-13 12:20 PM (#58556 - in reply to #58268)
Subject: RE: Circumcision News


Wait a minute. Nick, you're not going to see your son for 6 or 8 years? I don't mean to be nosey & you can tell me to mind my own business but oh my gosh! That's a long time. If that's true, I'm really sad for you. I hope I misread your post.

Steve, I thought you meant you didn't believe AIDS came from HIV. I missed the lecture in Berkeley about this but I read the flyer which stated some interesting reasons HIV doesn't automatically cause AIDS. So far, I don't believe that theory, but, I'm open to reading compelling arguments either way. Really, the immune system is amazing.

Do any of you have thoughts on HIV NOT causing AIDS? Again, for the record, I believe the conventional theory that HIV does indeed cause (or turns into) AIDS. But I think anything is possible and scientists are still unraveling mysteries.

I don't think anyone would admit to having sex with an animal, but it is plausible. So is germ warfare. But, why would the evil scientists go through the trouble of inventing HIV/AIDS when there's already Ebola and Marfawn (<-- not spelled correctly)?

That brings up another semi-related issue of evil sociologists bringing cocaine and heroin into economically deprived neighborhoods to enslave the population. I don't believe that either but, then again, I wouldn't be surprized if that was true.

I think life is competition and viruses are one microcosmic example of that. The spiritual challenge is for humans to act with compassion and integrity while naturally competing (for space, for resources, for jobs...). I also think parents have a big influence on how children adapt to natural competition and stressors out there in the world. I can tell that people like Steve Thornley and Nick and Tourist have given their children so much love and wisdom that their kids will transform into amazing adults.
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