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Ego Self vocab
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SCThornley
Posted 2006-07-24 5:23 PM (#59554 - in reply to #59552)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


bstqltmkr - 2006-07-24 5:18 PM

Non-attachment to the past I can certainly understand, and also non-attachment to the future. Not that I'm against preparing for the future, but you never really know, and so it's better to be flexible. Here in the present though, I'm totally attached to my family. Okay, I probably do have a few other attachments to work on, but I'm not afraid of work. I try not to be greedy, I can recognize that I have everything I need for a good comfortable life and am thankful. So any idea on other areas in life where I might need to examine my attachments? Don't worry about throwing in ideas in general where someone's attachments could cause unnecessary suffering, I'm looking for ideas and not taking it personal.


do you have one of those really big quilting rack machine things called something like the easy quilter or the super sew ?

it's like a big scroll for the quilt, once it's basted and it has a movable base for where your machine sits and you can trace a pattern while you machine quilt

You may have attachment to your most beautiful creations, maybe?

I know that my wife can get pretty 'wrapped up' in a quilting project, and I always do my best to give her the best audience i can when she needs it.
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bstqltmkr
Posted 2006-07-24 5:43 PM (#59557 - in reply to #59067)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


No, I don't have one, and quilt by hand. It takes much longer, but is also like therapy so I enjoy it. I imagine I'm attached to the talents or skills I use, but really I try to view it as a gift from my ancestors, and not take credit or waste it. I've given lots of quilts away, and try not to be attached to the finished product. Of course on a cold winter night I'm attached to my quilts, haha. If I show my husband a project I'm working on, he says, is it done yet?
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devotee
Posted 2006-07-24 9:12 PM (#59576 - in reply to #59557)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


Lord Krishna says, "You must do your duty (Dharma). Running away from one's duty makes you fall & a sinner". Should I love my children ? - Yes, I am a father & it's my duty. Will it bind me ? - If I am attached to "MY", if I don't realise that this "Father - Child" phenomena is just a passing episode on the great stage of life, if I don't always remember that "my children" are also the same great, eternal, blissful Atman like me & that the relationship is attached to bodies & the body will perish & is impermanent & so is the relationship.

I will tell you a story :

Devaki, the biological mother of Lord Krishna, had given birth to 8 children. 7 of them were killed by Kansa ( Devaki's brother, who was destined to be killed by 8th son of Devaki). After the end of the war, once Devaki told Krishna - My son, I have a desire to meet my other 7 (dead) children. I didn't even hold them in my hands properly & they were killed before my eyes & this thought burns me ceaselessly. I just want to hug them once. Can you arrange for that ? You are the Almighty & can easily do this. Will you do this for your mother?"
Lord Krishna smiled & said, "Mother, you won't be happy meeting them. Moreover, it is against the nature & not in order to disturb who have gone from this world. Forget it. They came here due their Karma & now they have gone back to their abode. Nobody takes birth & nobody dies. It is all illusion - why do you bind yourself with that illusion ?" Devaki was not ready to listen anything. The Mother's attachment is really great & can be understood by a mother only. When all efforts failed & Devaki kept on insisting, Lord Krishna found himself in a difficult situation in front of his own mother. Finally, he said, "OK. So be it !" & with his supernatural powers he took his mother to the abode where those "children of Devaki" resided. Devaki found herself on a beautiful land where 7 Old Sages were meditating. Lord Krishna went to them with Devaki & explained to them the reason for their visit. All 7 sages started laughing loudly at Devaki. One of them said, "Do you remember how many times you were born as my child ? A number of times ! I never claimed that you were "my child". I was born only once to you & that too only for a very small period & you thought I was "your child" & you came chasing me upto this abode to disturb me ? Birth & death are just illusion. Don't waste our & other's time." .... And that was how Devaki became free from her attachment.
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ystan
Posted 2006-07-25 4:37 AM (#59597 - in reply to #59576)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


Devotee –

Thanks for various thought provoking and interesting postings.

I need some guidance to clear my confusion over the difference between contemplation (thinking) and attachment (monkey brain). When certain thoughts appeared, it always starts with a situation, as I analyzed the situation, I would arrive at the cause and effect of the situation, and next come flashes of various outcome if I take certain path, later, I would come to a conclusion on my action items, that can be doing nothing, or action plans for the days or weeks ahead. I noticed if I did not act on my conclusion, these thoughts will keep repeating until the time of closure.

How would you classify this mode of mind behavior?

Namaste

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judamom
Posted 2006-07-25 7:30 AM (#59607 - in reply to #59067)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


ystan--it sounds like "inner quidence to me" or "free will". The fact that you are contemplating it all and attempting to understand and do the best for yourself.......I would say 'keep on keepin' on'. Alice Bailey's books get into much of how our minds work and when spirit and soul integrate etc. Most people think her books way too heavy but I find them so helpful in such matters---find nothing else that stimulates my thinking more than she.......she channels Djwal Khul. I will scim some of her books and see if I find an answer that might assist your understanding.....I am reading with you in mind these days......but yesterday I picked up 'The Source' by Mitchner and it is 4 or 5 inches thick--I have chosen to side track myself in an attempt to better understand-----it ALL!
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judamom
Posted 2006-07-25 7:40 AM (#59609 - in reply to #59495)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


bstqltmkr detachment might be a lifetime challenge to understand. I have only glimpsed the true meaning a couple of times briefly. As an older person with children all raised and living alone with nothing to hold my interest other than my spiritual persuit I am still learning detachment and then I will have to learn 'detachment from detachment' (smile) Possibly we are not meant to totally grasp these concepts...........possibly as we grasp, they expand, so we have to keep grasping at other levels. Just know that the fact that you are contemplating the concepts means you are expanding your consciousness........good job!! Judamom
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devotee
Posted 2006-07-25 10:25 AM (#59626 - in reply to #59597)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


ystan - 2006-07-25 4:37 AM

Devotee –

Thanks for various thought provoking and interesting postings.

I need some guidance to clear my confusion over the difference between contemplation (thinking) and attachment (monkey brain). When certain thoughts appeared, it always starts with a situation, as I analyzed the situation, I would arrive at the cause and effect of the situation, and next come flashes of various outcome if I take certain path, later, I would come to a conclusion on my action items, that can be doing nothing, or action plans for the days or weeks ahead. I noticed if I did not act on my conclusion, these thoughts will keep repeating until the time of closure.

How would you classify this mode of mind behavior?

Namaste


Dear Ystan,
I am not sure whether I am able to understand your question correctly.
I am not able to correlate how confusion is arising between attachment & thinking ? Both the things are not directly related to each other. What is attachment ? It is nothing but being bound to worldly affairs which are nothing but illusion like - desires for enjoyment ( for sense organs or mind), possesiveness ( the feeling of MY), hatred, Fear of pain, sadness due to loss etc. The more you tend to cling to worldly things/ emotions the more you get bound to them.
Now coming to Thinking -
i)If you decide to take a certain path to resolve an issue & you don't do it that way, it keeps on haunting you as you have failed to keep your promise to yourself. It is a mental process which tries to help you to keep your promises. This has nothing to do with attachment. In fact, it is a self correcting process in mind.
ii) However, this can be because of attachment also. When you have conciously decided to do or not to do a thing & yet it keeps haunting you without any valid reasons, it may be due to your unnecessary attachment to that object or matter in question.
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ystan
Posted 2006-07-25 11:54 AM (#59639 - in reply to #59626)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


Dear Devotee,

You said, “What is attachment? It is nothing but being bound to worldly affairs which are nothing but illusion”, “The more you tend to cling to worldly things/ emotions the more you get bound to them.”

My thoughts are almost always about worldly affairs, and the problems and its solutions, as I continue to be in this mode, moving from a solved situation to another situation, are these thoughts consider as undesirable attachments?

Namaste

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ystan
Posted 2006-07-25 12:07 PM (#59640 - in reply to #59607)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


Judamom -- thank you for keeping me in your thoughts! I am honored. Namaste.

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devotee
Posted 2006-07-25 8:43 PM (#59708 - in reply to #59639)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


ystan - 2006-07-25 11:54 AM

My thoughts are almost always about worldly affairs, and the problems and its solutions, as I continue to be in this mode, moving from a solved situation to another situation, are these thoughts consider as undesirable attachments?

Always thinking about worldly affairs may be due to attachment & it may not be. It depends upon what you are thinking. There are worldly affairs which are actually your Dharma/duty & you must think about them to carry out your duty properly. This in itself is not attachment. You may carry out all your daily chores of your life & still remain non-attached. You can peform all your duties of a father/mother/son/teacher/worker/manager/priest/cook/fisherman/sanitary cleaner/politician/bar dancer etc... & remain non-attached. No work by itself is good or bad / attaching or non-attaching / higher or lower. The important thing is how you do it & not what you do.
We can ask simple questions to test :
i) Why I am doing it ? - If it is for my comforts, jealousy, any desires, it is attachment.
ii) Do I feel good or bad (for long) when I achieve desired results & when I don't ? If yes, then it is attachment.
iii) Am I attached to any object /person because of my worldly desires or because it is "mine" ? - Yes - means attachment.
iv) Are my decisions getting affected by subjects of sense organs / enjoyment of mind ? "Yes" means attachment again.
And so on...
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ystan
Posted 2006-07-25 11:56 PM (#59722 - in reply to #59708)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


Dear Devotee,

Thanks again for your reply. Now, using some hypothetical example, how would a non-attached person go about handling the following?

Do I feel good or bad (for long) when I achieve desired results & when I don't? – One loves to help others, and must help others in order to feel one is contributing to mankind.

Am I attached to any object /person because of my worldly desires or because it is "mine"? – One frequently think of a deceased love with loving and joyful thoughts.

Namaste

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devotee
Posted 2006-07-26 3:12 AM (#59733 - in reply to #59722)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


ystan - 2006-07-25 11:56 PM

Do I feel good or bad (for long) when I achieve desired results & when I don't? – One loves to help others, and must help others in order to feel one is contributing to mankind.



Helping mankind is of a higher level karma & it purifies the Jeevatma (soul) if done selflessly. If you do it as a duty, there is no attachment involved. Lord Krishna says, "Yagna ( works done for God, & /or for knowing the self) , charity & tapa ( i.e. descipline for purifying oneself) must not be left under any pretext". However, if you do this for attaining heaven, it is not bad but you get attached to the good karma.
Am I attached to any object /person because of my worldly desires or because it is "mine"? – One frequently think of a deceased love with loving and joyful thoughts.


That is a sign of attachment & it is not good if you "frequently think".
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ystan
Posted 2006-07-26 11:03 AM (#59779 - in reply to #59733)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


Devotee, thank you for guidance! Namaste 
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bstqltmkr
Posted 2006-07-26 11:59 AM (#59797 - in reply to #59067)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


Yes Devotee, I have to echo Ystan, and thank you. I was thinking about emotions recently, and I'll explain why. When I was younger, I suppose it could be said that I couldn't deal well with my emotions. As a result, I closed myself off into a hard shell, no one could hurt me. After my children were born, I felt love in a way I never knew before. After this, I couldn't keep the hard shell in place, nor did I want to. Once I let them, I think my emotions were making up for lost time, often I was happy or sad, things were pretty intense. Now my goal as far as emotion is to feel my feelings, let them pass without clinging, learn what I can from them, but mostly control my actions while I feel them. Not to let my emotions rule my actions. I think I've made progress with that, any feedback on my theory anyone, or idea on what the next goal should be?
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devotee
Posted 2006-07-26 9:06 PM (#59863 - in reply to #59797)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


bstqltmkr - 2006-07-26 11:59 AM
feel my feelings, let them pass without clinging, learn what I can from them, but mostly control my actions while I feel them. Not to let my emotions rule my actions. I think I've made progress with that, any feedback on my theory anyone, or idea on what the next goal should be?


You are just on the right path. If what you say is true then you must have started getting the feel of "Peace", which it immediately brings. This practice of non-attachment makes you master of situations in this world apart from making you ready for liberation. You will be able to deal with many difficult situations so easily which others would struggle to deal with. Only one thing I would like to add to clear things for the better : The practice of non-attachment is difficult initially. Some times people think that it is either a state of Attchment or complete Non-attachment which is not true. There is a continuous spectrum of shades from Attchment to Non-attachment. There are varying degrees of attachment & non-attachment. We have to move consistently towards the Non-attachment. Complete Non-attachment will come only at the point of liberation. Keep yourself aware where you stand.
I hope you are doing meditation. Practising Meditation combined with practice of non-attachment is enough for liberation. The practice of Non-attachment keeps on purifying us. We have to slowly but consistenty keep on examining critically our attachments with pleasures/pains related with sense organs & mind & our attachments with this world ... that is the goal ... complete Non-attachment ... Liberation.
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bstqltmkr
Posted 2006-07-27 9:03 AM (#59928 - in reply to #59067)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


Yes, I am practicing meditation, and also practicing yoga, and I can't imagine I would have gotten this far without it. Thank you for the encouragement, as I still have a long way to go.
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ystan
Posted 2006-07-29 6:25 AM (#60214 - in reply to #59779)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


I found some answers on inner voices and mind chattering. This article was there waiting for my discovery! I appreciate feedback on this approach to  meditation.

Never-Ending Conversation

Quieting the mind doesn't have to mean shushing your many inner voices. By letting them have their say, you can discover the all-encompassing stillness of Big Mind. By John Kain

Namaste

http://www.yogajournal.com/meditation/1387.cfm



Edited by ystan 2006-07-29 6:31 AM
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bstqltmkr
Posted 2006-07-29 8:56 AM (#60220 - in reply to #59067)
Subject: RE: Ego Self vocab


Hi Judamom, I like where you said nonattachment might be a lifetime challenge. That seems to be the same amount of time I have here, so I suppose it's doable.
Ystan, thanks for sharing that interesting read. There is a ton of information packed into that yoga journal website, I like to search there also. Namaste.
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