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instructor vs teacher
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yogabrian
Posted 2006-07-23 12:47 PM (#59413)
Subject: instructor vs teacher


Greetings all!

I was wondering how you would define being an instructor vs being a teacher. Do you you think of them as one in the same?
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tourist
Posted 2006-07-23 1:18 PM (#59416 - in reply to #59413)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher



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Good question! I'm going to see what a few others say before I weigh in on this one
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mishoga
Posted 2006-07-23 2:00 PM (#59422 - in reply to #59413)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher



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Although I do carry the initials of C.R.Y.T. I like to think of myself as an instructor who likes to share knowledge and learn from others as well.
For some reason I think of that title "teacher" (in respect to myself) as so formal. I don't feel comfortable with that title.
Maybe it's a silly quirky thing for me

Mish
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Posted 2006-07-23 2:01 PM (#59423 - in reply to #59416)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher


To me it's similar to the difference between training and education: instructors train, teachers educate. In my experience, most Bikramites are trainers leaving it up to the individual to obtain the education. I didn't want to be an instructor, so I decided to become a yoga teacher and began a study and practice of all things yogic in order to educate myself as well as others.
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mishoga
Posted 2006-07-23 2:26 PM (#59424 - in reply to #59413)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher



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I agree wih you Bruce. What I stated about myself in respect to teacher and instructor, well I do have a background education and many years experience in fitness instruction.
As far as yoga, I am vey capable of the physical aspect but on the philosophy and history, I will forever be a student. I pass along what I learn to the students that are receptive. I am committed to learning and experiencing all that I can in respect to yoga.

Not all students want more than the physical movements. I experience this often in the gym atmosphere.

This is why I say I am an instructor. For some reason the title "teacher" (to me) puts one above another. And quite honestly, we are all human, all one. I don't want to be viewed as someone who is above others.

Mish
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Posted 2006-07-23 2:49 PM (#59428 - in reply to #59413)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher


like bruce, i see teachers as educators and instructors as trainers. I see value in having both kinds of classroom leaders. related to this, both titles denote power assymetry between those being trained or educated and those training or educating. There is nothing inherently wrong with this power assymmetry nor does this assymetry presuppose that teachers/instructors are "better" or "higher" than students. Simply, instructors and teachers are offering skills and information on given topics to their students. Teachers and instructors of all kinds are continually learning--including from their students--and most recognize this fact.

For my own part, i call myself a yoga teacher. This is because i am educating people about yoga. Asana is a skill that i teach to help people learn to develop concentration and awareness so that they can observe the patterns in their lives--positive and negative--and come to deeper self knowledge and spiritual awakenings. I do not think or believe that I am better than anyone else, more spiritual than anyone else, or that i have nothing left to learn. If anything, i recognize that I have a great deal more to learn, and I also recognize just how much i learn from my students on a daily basis (on any number of vibrant and important topics).

But, i also recognize that in the topic of yoga, i do often know more than my students and I know and understand how yoga functions and how to educate them in the process of yoga so that they can take that information and those practices into their own lives and have their own spiritual awakening which in turn they share with others (including me). There is nothing wrong with recognizing both my method and my level of skill or knowledge in an area being more than anothers. For example, i am not upset that Steven Hawking is a great astrophysicist and could be my teacher. Certainly, he also has lots to learn and study about astrophysics, but he sure as hell knows more about astrophysics than i do.

For my own part, I do not enjoy instructing. I do not enjoy simply leading people through movements and sending them on their way. I do not find the relationship intimate or rewarding. I do not consider it a good use of my talents, knowledge, skills, education, and abilities. I find that when i am called to simply instruct, i become frustrated and bored very quickly. I become frustrated because i find that many clients who simply want instruction will not take instruction willingly or readily. Quite simply, often they won't take it at all. I'll give an instruction, an adjustment, and perhaps even an explaination, and as soon as i turn away, they go back into their potentially injurious position. I become bored because i'm often called on to say the same thing over and over and over without a change in how i instruct or lead the class through that movement. For me, this is neither mentally or spiritually rewarding.

I find that, in gym settings, people are just as eager to be educated in yoga as they are in non-gym settings. I teach the same information as I do in any other setting, including discussion of spiritual topics and how yoga works toward spiritual liberation. I feel that if a student comes to my class, it is because the universe brought us together for a reason. I do not necessarily understand or know those reasons--and neither might the client--but i strongly believe that my talents are needed in the classrooms and for the students that are brought to me and that i need them also for my own life and learning experience.
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mishoga
Posted 2006-07-23 3:14 PM (#59436 - in reply to #59413)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher



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OK, I'm not explaining myself correctly. FOR ME, I do not like the title teacher. When I say I am an instructor, I am. It does not mean that I am not spiritual In fact I'm very spiritual and for the most part appreciate life.
I open others to see what they overlook, like how precious life is.
Good example, a student of mine calls to say she's having a bad day on the verge of crying. The house is a mess, the kids are acting up, she can't take it anymore, etc...we have all been there. I just put things into perspective. The house being untidy is not important. The kids might be having a rough day too but they are healthy, life is life. Turn the bad day attitude into a good day. they have the power to change. This is what I bring to light. Yes I might know more about yoga and fitness then them but who's to say they couldn't be me investing time and energy in learning.
For some reason I feel like yoga teachers think a fitness profession is somewhat below them. I can't imagine why. How many yoga programs go extensively into the dynamics of physical fitness and pyhsiology (I know spelling) Aging and the effects on the body, what exactly happens to the body of a woman during menopause, dealing with age related diseases, ATP, glycosis, creatine, etc.... The list can go on. I know there are many yoga practitioners who are educated in this but I'm sure there are more who aren't. I have met so many yoga teachers who never ask their students at the beginning of class if anyone has diabetes or high blood pressure. To me, that's a no-no besides a liability. That is where my fitness background enhances my yoga instruction.

I really don't like when people approach me as if I am filled with all the answers. I don't know all the answers. I am human like all my students. I want to share my love of yoga as a fellow yoga practitioner. I am called teacher all the time by studios, gyms, employers, and students but I will not call myself a yoga teacher.
Mish

Edited by mishoga 2006-07-23 3:17 PM
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Posted 2006-07-23 8:02 PM (#59464 - in reply to #59436)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher


mish:

First, no one is questioning whether or not you're a spiritual person or if you bring your spirituality to bear on your instructor-student relationships, etc. Simply, as you asserted yourself, instructors are less likely to introduce esoteric and spiritual topics to their clients instead focusing on the physical aspects of yoga. This does not imply that instructors are not spiritual people in general, but rather they do not teach the esoteric and spiritual aspects of yoga--a differentiation between an instructor and a teacher, an issue of methodology in the dissimination of yoga-related information.

but, your original post implies that the power/knowledge dichotomy between students and 'teachers' is problematic--that there is an 'attitude' attached where teachers do not see themselves as spiritual equals to their students or still on the path of knowledge like their students (that is, still students themselves). Simply, a statement like this cannot apply only to an individual ("for me") when we are in a discussion about the definition and uses of terms.

to this, i tried to demonstrate that both instructor and teacher have an inherent dichotomy of both power and knowledge, but neither implies that the instructor or teacher are somehow inherently 'above' or 'beyond' or 'outside of' the process of 'student' themselves. Simply, it describes a different methodology or approach to the process of dissiminating information to those within the classroom. Having more information or knowledge than someone else doesn't imply having 'all the answers' but simply one has more knowledge and experience than another. This does not imply that individuals are 'better' than other individuals because they have more talent in an area, or more skill, or more knowledge. Simply, that they can share these talents, skills, and knowledge to those who are seeking to develop those talents, skills, or knowledge.

As to the personal use of the term, i can understand your personal disquiet with it's use for your own process as an instructor. it is completely understandable to want to back away from the feelings of another--their belief that you know everything and they know less or nothing. this is a problematic notion--and one that i've run into many times. Nevertheless, their misunderstanding doesn't impact my methodology as an educator rather than a trainer. Instead, i explain my process--that i am still a student as well, that what i don't know i will go and look up for them, or i will tell them where to go and look for answers themselves, etc. I also tell my students frequently that i gain as much knowledge from them as they gain from me--perhaps more!

even so, it makes perfect sense to forgo not using the term teacher for this reason--for your personal reason of the emotional response. but, i think it is inappropriate to point the the inherent power dichotomy (that both titles share) as the origin of the problem, and then from this imply that all who claim the title trade on that power play. Am i being clear about this? I am not sure.

As to the issue regarding fitness instructors being 'lesser' somehow than yoga instructors, you bring up some important points. First, i think it is important for me to point out that i do not think of myself as spiritually better than fitness instructors. I also believe that fitness instructor training can bring a lot to the instructions that a yoga instructor with this sort of background brings to his/her classes.

But, in both aspects, i think that training is a huge issue which we have discussed before. I feel that a lot of yoga teacher training offered right now is inadequate in any number of ways--including these important questions that you put forth about what fitness instructors may learn. I believe that this is largely due to teacher training becoming a big money-maker for teachers and studios, as well as the fact that it is difficult to determine what the most important elements of yoga instruction are such that they would be taught in a brief (200 hr) teacher training. In conjunction with this, though, is the very basic fact that fitness instructors--in many cases--are not required to have very many hours of training at all--not even as little as a yoga instructor (200 hrs). And even much of what they do study--in my experience and reading--is highly inaccurate information about psychology, physiology, nutrition, and sport science.

beyond this, of course, there are a lot of very excellent yoga teachers who do know the things that fitness instructors may learn, as well as a great deal about yoga besides asana, just as there are fitness instructors who know a lot more about fitness, health, etc, than their certification organization requires or dissiminates. There are also really bad, poorly informed yoga teachers and really bad, poorly informed fitness instructors. I've had the blessing of meeting both kinds of these.
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Posted 2006-07-24 1:51 AM (#59478 - in reply to #59413)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher


Obviously this is a hot topic.
No one yet has said "same thing". Hmmm.

Instruction and Teaching are different. Now whether that plays out as a semantic game in references here on the board or not is a another story. Honestly, most of the references on the board use those two terms synonymously. From the standpoint of etymology, teach means to show, to point out, to instruct so instruction is part of teaching. And words take on two meanings, the first is the standard book definition, while the second is the way the word is taken in usage. Use the word "faggot" for example. In definition it's a reference to a bundle of sticks. In usage it's a reference to a person practicing a homosexual lifestyle. Same word. Perhaps this is part of the instructor/teacher debate.

From a yoga standpoint, however, my personal sense is that a teacher usually embodies yoga while an instructor can point out. It's been said one can know all the anatomical points of a pose and still not be a good teacher, not convey. I think a teacher has a result. Where as an instructor may just be showing.

There's nothing wrong with being a fitness professional and teaching yoga. Just like there's nothing wrong with being a lawyer and teaching yoga. The larger issue there for me is what commitment the instructor/teacher has to their craft. Once again yoga teachers are only as good as the lives they live. There are many fitness professionals I know living more authentic lives than some of my yoga teaching chums.

I do not consider yoga a fitness regimen. However, this is the world we live in and many do consider it such. If I had my way I'd do everything I could as a teacher with my students to demonstrate yoga is something larger than fitness, much larger. So what I teach, in part, is through how I live, the yamas, niyamas, and kleshas. As yoga teachers we are charged with living through these 15 precepts. Not for perfection but as part of a path. And this might be our greatest gift to students, not a better sirsasana.

I personally prefer being refered to as "yoga teacher" because I effort to bring the richness fo yoga to my students. This means being up-to-date and informed about other types of healing practices, anatomy, scientific studies, the Sutras...and if I don't know an answer, as often I do not, I simply say "I don't know but I will find out".

I call my teacher "teacher". If I were merely being shown asana I might lean toward calling my teacher "instructor". But I do not. He's so much more and I'm grateful when I look at how he lives, as he stands up to the test outside the yoga studio and has earned the respect of "teacher".



Edited by purnayoga 2006-07-24 2:15 AM
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tourist
Posted 2006-07-24 12:19 PM (#59501 - in reply to #59478)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher



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Wow I think of myself as a yoga teacher. Instructions can be read from a book, watched on electronic media or spoken over the phone (there is a blurb on phone yoga classes in YJ this month) but teaching requires at least some interaction, some closer connection between teacher and student. One of the phone yoga teachers says she leads most of her classes with her eyes closed - can that be teaching? (Before anyone complains, I do not mean that a blind person can't teach.) OTOH, I don't always think the definition of the word is my own choice. I think for some of my students I may well be an instructor since I have had many students who are simply not ready to be "taught" and take the classes as instruction. Some later come to be taught, some don't. But if someone wants to call themselves an instructor, that is fine with me. But Mish, if you have people calling you with personal problems, you are beyond instructor or teacher to them
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yogabrian
Posted 2006-07-24 3:05 PM (#59531 - in reply to #59413)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher


Wow!

I think I agree with you all are saying. There is a difference.

For me, an instructor would be more like a "jr teacher" in status. Teacher to me represents, both mastery and experience. I feel that most of us start as instructor and can move to being a teacher.

I was one those that started in the fitness industy. Is was a good life, but after a couple of years I noticed that many of my student were simply stuck in their practice. This is large part because I never felt I could really take them to the next level as my class sizes were large.

Now that I have opened my own space, I find myself trying to live the path of the teacher. Teaching a smaller more intimate environment I can actually make it around to correct everyone. Going from classes of 45-50 to 10-15 make such a difference.

Thanks for all the responses gang!
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tourist
Posted 2006-07-24 6:22 PM (#59567 - in reply to #59531)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher



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I must add that there are days when I feel I am only instructing. Near the end of term I had a short time where, both because I felt my teaching was mechanical and because we had some amazing workshops with teachers far and beyond my level. And I was tired. But after some reflection I decided to be ok with the idea that some days I was going to be mechanical and just "teach the poses." First of all, that is what many beginners are looking for and also because that is where I was at that moment. Being able to look at it and tell myself that I had to get into my own practice more, to learn and grow myself to improve my teaching is something yoga has taught me. THere is just not enough time in life to spend much energy feeling bad about stuff like that. Just get up and get on the mat again and something will happen
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Posted 2006-07-24 10:05 PM (#59577 - in reply to #59567)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher


Right now, while attending my RYT training and/or education, I feel more like an instructor teaching at the gym and being suppressed to teach only these poses with little or no instruction. But I have a hard time complying to these "rules" and am educating to the best of my ability what I am learning and experiencing from my education/training. What a difference it makes between a 200 hour education and a weekend training?! Now that is plain to see in my eyes since I have been there and done that. I love what I am learning and there is a lot to learn and lots to incorporate in a practice-bandhas, pranayama, etc. Mulha bandha is a challenge and I am working on it-just learned about the bandhas this past weekend. Just my thoughts regarding difference between instructor and teacher.
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Posted 2006-07-24 11:47 PM (#59582 - in reply to #59501)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher


But of course. It would be reasonable to expect that a blind teacher would have a very heightened awareness in her/his other senses. Therefore it's not at all closing your eyes on the telephone.

tourist - 2006-07-24 9:19 AM
One of the phone yoga teachers says she leads most of her classes with her eyes closed - can that be teaching? (Before anyone complains, I do not mean that a blind person can't teach.)
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Kym
Posted 2006-07-25 10:53 PM (#59720 - in reply to #59413)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher


I don't think you can tell what someone's spirituality is by their training or what they teach in a gym. Like someone said, a cycling teacher can be more spirtual than a yoga teacher b/c it comes from within. I don't even think you can be taught spiritulity. You can learn ways for it to manifest, but you are either spiritual or not. I would never assume the hip hop teacher accross the hall from me was either more or less spiritual than me. And, what business of mine would it be anyway?

I also have no problem feeling like I know more about yoga than someone else. I don't assume that I do b/c you never know who may show up in your class or how long they have been practicing. But, if I know more yoga than all or most everyone in my class, than it's probably a good thing b/c they expect me to!

I've always called myself a yoga teacher and never thought much about it. I was a school teacher before this and I never put a big stigma on the word. Howver, I will say the the name instructor comes off as sterile to me.



Edited by Kym 2006-07-25 10:54 PM
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Posted 2006-07-26 1:20 AM (#59725 - in reply to #59720)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher


Kym makes a good point below..and we can take it one step further...

"more" spiritual?
No such thing, right?
Who's to determine such folly??
"No I'm sorry Jan is closer to Samadhi than you are Roger. Keep up the good work though."
There are many, many supposed gurus who appear pious, spiritual, righteous, only to sleep with a bevy of students (or some such other transgression clearly demonstrating a less than spirtual essence). And while sleeping with someone is fine, sleeping with your students isn't exactly brahamacharya is it?

I will say this, if you are placing your well being in the hands of a practitioner you would logically want to know they were well trained. Just as you would if you were scheduled for vascular surgery.

As for knowing more or less yoga than others, again I'm unsure how one would quantify that. I've been to classes with young, less experienced teachers who ONLY taught what they knew, what they had felt in their own bodies (one such class in New Jeresy during a visit to an Iyengar studio). What a wonderful class. I wasn't going with the expectation of the teacher knowing more than me. I was going in the hopes that this person would teach authentically and I would find something in my asana practice that night that I had not discovered before..for no particular reason.






Kym - 2006-07-25 7:53 PM

I don't think you can tell what someone's spirituality is by their training or what they teach in a gym. Like someone said, a cycling teacher can be more spirtual than a yoga teacher b/c it comes from within. I don't even think you can be taught spiritulity. You can learn ways for it to manifest, but you are either spiritual or not. I would never assume the hip hop teacher accross the hall from me was either more or less spiritual than me. And, what business of mine would it be anyway?

I also have no problem feeling like I know more about yoga than someone else. I don't assume that I do b/c you never know who may show up in your class or how long they have been practicing. But, if I know more yoga than all or most everyone in my class, than it's probably a good thing b/c they expect me to!

I've always called myself a yoga teacher and never thought much about it. I was a school teacher before this and I never put a big stigma on the word. Howver, I will say the the name instructor comes off as sterile to me.

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mishoga
Posted 2006-07-26 8:58 AM (#59756 - in reply to #59413)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher



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Boy, I see I've dug myself in a hole
To be honest, I really don't want to be called an Instructor or a Teacher. I just want to be Mish.
I don't want or need a title. It's society that needs labels.
My goal in bringing others to yoga is to show that you (meaning all people) have the power to create the life you want. "MANIFEST" your destiny! If you want to be happy and healthy, you must be pro-active in that decision. It is within all of us to desire happiness. Some have a smoke screen of nonsense that stops them from seeing clearly. It's a reorganization of thought patterns and priorities, which happen to include treating all living creatures and humans kindly.


Ok, enough, I'll stop

Mish

Edited by mishoga 2006-07-26 8:59 AM
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Posted 2006-07-26 9:12 AM (#59758 - in reply to #59413)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher


mish:

we need words to communicate. i don't know what 'mish' is unless it's described or unless i encounter it 'face-to-face.' the 'labels' argument always falls really flat with me. A lot of words can be used to describe you, or anyone, but that doesn't mean that it's the 'end all and be all' of what that person is.

'teacher' doesn't begin to 'describe' me or even what i do when i'm leading a classroom of individuals interested in learning yoga--something that's often called "teaching." but, it's a term that i can use as shorthand to describe what i do, and how that might be different from a yoga therapist or a yoga instructor. right?

aside from that, if you're teaching that ideology in your classes, then i would say that you're a teacher and not an instructor. by adding in the spiritual component to the asana instruction, you've moved into the realm of teaching yoga and therefore are a 'teacher.'

at least, that's the 'short hand' that i would use to describe you if that is your methodology.
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Cyndi
Posted 2006-07-26 9:19 AM (#59760 - in reply to #59756)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher



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Perhaps it's just the English language that is playing a factor in how one perceives the WORDS themselves....Instructor/Teacher. In Hindu land it would simply be called a Guru.

It's interesting that I call my Instructor both...but I do not call her my guru because, even though she is teaching me Yoga Asana's...I do not feel she is at a level - spiritually or whatever, to be considered as my guru. I think of a guru as someone who is enlightened, has gone before me...and YES, absolutely, has advanced way beyond me...we are NOT equal. We are only equal as far as being human or being in a human body goes, but not equal as far as spiritual advancement is concerned and this is very important! A guru has a vast knowledge of YOGA, everything that is associated with life, humanity, spirituality....EVERYTHING....in fact, I cannot define a guru with the English language....NOT just in performing and teaching the Asana's. There are NOT that many guru's like this here in the states, but if you are lucky enough to be associated with one, then you have a guru...Otherwise, a yoga asana Instructor/Teacher would be appropriate...to me they are one in the same, just different words.
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mishoga
Posted 2006-07-26 10:02 AM (#59766 - in reply to #59413)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher



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You know, I agree with what everyone says here.
I think it's just me that has issues. I've always rebeled against what society says is proper and acceptable. I think it's the artist in me.
For instance, it is proper to send of thank you notes when you receive a gift or present at a party. I know this, my mother forced me to write out thank yous throughout my childhood. I refuse to do it as an adult. I say thank you. Some are offended that they don't receive the written thank you. I think it's silly.
Same goes for titles. I don't like titles, especially labels that project authority. I've always had an "attitude" when it comes to teachers. I'm not disrespectful but I had problems in school following instructions. And my mother would say. "Mish, why aren't you doing what the teacher tells you to do?". I never understood why I had to do things their way. I was still getting the same result, maybe looked a little different, but same end result.
This is definitely my hang up. An I'm not proud of this. As I age I'm trying to have a better way of dealing with it. I'm trying


Mish
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Cyndi
Posted 2006-07-26 10:33 AM (#59774 - in reply to #59766)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher



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Mish,

I think we all have been somewhere with that...I know i have. My problem is that this society does not give respect to human beings and does not revere life in the way I see it. Afterall, look at how our forefathers in this western world behaved towards the Native Americans and how this society has treated nature and our put us in dangerous environments. Therefore, it's kind of hard to follow the role models that were forced upon us, which make us have this rebellious nature. Having that said.....

Somewhere in my mind all along, I have always known there was a better way and there was a different way of choosing how to live. I broke myself off of this society a long time ago and made up my own rules based on my intuitive abilities. Which BTW, has a much better quality than anything I've seen here that this world has to offer...or society that is. In fact, I'm a much better citizen than the ones who follow *society* per se. Later on in my life when I came to terms with all this and after the death of my Mother which had a very strong impact on how I perceived things, I met some really incredible guru's and people from other culture's - I married a Hindu. This is who I really am, NOT the person that society tried to make me to be. That's not to say that I didn't need that experience. My belief is that life taught me the things I needed to see and know, I just didn't make it my final destination - otherwise i would be screwed up and stuck in a scary dark place. I think we need to take a look at ALL of it. We need to be able to mingle and live in society in order to be a part of it and in order to be able to teach our future generation of children. How else are we going to know how to teach our children if we don't understand how this society operates - whether it be right or wrong. It is our responsibility and duty to learn this so therefore we can educate our children and whoever we try to teach. We also have to be able to approach it in a manner that is not PERMISSIVE, but in a way that is going to lead others including our children, in a healthier way of life. Think about it this way, we have a wonderful opportunity here to teach our children including setting an example of a better way to live and behave, that way when they get older, they will shape the world into what needs to be done within our society and governments, at all levels. We have an opportunity to influence others as well on every level. We need to be able to see this, experience all of it - the mistakes our past generations made, everything needs to be considered in order to make it right. We must understand the *true* nature of it all. The truth is very important and if you can operate from that truth, then you have no need to question or doubt who you are. Then, you have no problems with being a teacher, instructor, guru or whatever...you just do your job and don't worry about it.
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tourist
Posted 2006-07-26 11:52 AM (#59794 - in reply to #59774)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher



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mish - I really appreciate that you have been taking this conversation as just that - a conversation and not some sort of personal attack where you need to defend yourself. I agree with you that this is something you'll have to work with for awhile. Here are a few more thoughts:

- when I think of "mish" I actually think of a friend of my daughter's. So "just mish" is not good enough. Even if I think "mish from yoga.com" it doesn't really work for me. I have to think of "mish the yoga teacher" and then I have a clear mental picture of who you are.

- Not having labels for things is messy and even dangerous. Mr. Tourist is famous for asking me to get "that thing" or something equally vague. The other day we were kayaking and (he sits in the back seat of the double) actually said something about "that island over there" while we were completely surrounded by small islands! I once moved the wrong "that rope" on our sailboat and wound up with no skin on the palm of my hand for a month. We need labels to be clear.

- I always think that I need to be an example of the "good" version of whatever I am to maybe give those with bad experiences a new model. So I try to be a teacher that removes those old ideas in the minds of people who previously had issues. Like the nice, kind, gentle dentist removes the fear and anxiety about that old nasty dentist you had as a kid

- you ARE a teacher and I think you have to accept that title and the responsibilities that come with that. Perhaps not taking on that title for yourself is about not taking the responsibility?

- this is not about you personally, but I think sometimes those who refuse the title of their occupation somehow think they are "above" that sort of thig, which is intolerably arrogant, IMHO.

- Cyndi is right - we are not gurus (yet ). Maybe sensei?
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Posted 2006-07-26 3:42 PM (#59832 - in reply to #59766)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher


There is a slight difference here Mish. the first is an action, forced upon you from your mother. These things, the doings, they must come from your heart. being "nice" to people is not the point unless you are actually feeling nice to people. If you are doing something outwardly because you've been taught, because it's the right thing, because it's acceptable, and you don't feel it in your heart then it's not the authentic you.

Now of course we live in a civilized society and I'm not suggesting if you're miserable you brood around all day but honestly that might be easier for us to relate to than trying to figure out if you really are grateful. If you're not, it's okay. I'm speaking generally, not to you specifically in this situation.

The rebelling piece sounds like resistance. And we as yogis should examine the areas of our resistance, where are we unmoveable, be the the greater trochanter or the heart or the dogma. And this is the higher purpose of the board, I believe. To lend some support and empower the looking.

mishoga - 2006-07-26 7:02 AM
For instance, it is proper to send thank you notes when you receive a gift or present at a party. I know this, my mother forced me to write out thank yous throughout my childhood. I refuse to do it as an adult. I say thank you. Some are offended that they don't receive the written thank you. I think it's silly.
Same goes for titles. I don't like titles, especially labels that project authority.

Mish
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Cyndi
Posted 2006-07-26 4:09 PM (#59835 - in reply to #59760)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher



Expert Yogi

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OMG, those dam Thank You notes...that's such a waste of paper and trees. Just say Danyabad at the time of receiving and be done with it,

I'll never forget when I was my married to my ex. His family was sooo into that. It took me over 8 mos. to get those thank you notes sent out from our wedding. Later on, when our "miss manners" sister in law started sending them for Christmas and Birthday presents...I had to draw the line and say forget it, you don't have to send Thank you notes to family...that is so stupid and I refused to do it.
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Kym
Posted 2006-07-26 5:04 PM (#59845 - in reply to #59413)
Subject: RE: instructor vs teacher


Mish, if "teacher" has a negative connotation for you, than I can see why you don't want to use it. I say, don't worry about it! Call yourself what you're comfortable with.

One thing this thread has made me think of is asking myself "am I teaching, or am I instructing?" I still land on teaching, but then again, I have no negative connotations with the word.

I also realize that I DO say aerobic, cycling...whatever...instructor, but always say yoga teacher when referring to other people. I think b/c yoga comes with a set of moral and ethical standards, but no so the other disciplines. If I'm teaching my kids manners and such, I feel like I'm teaching, not just instructing. Instructing is more showing them how to tie shoes.

Anyway, that's how I think of the difference. But, if someone said they were a yoga instructor, I probably would never have thought anything about it-until now that is!
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