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 YogaFit trainingModerators: Moderators Jump to page : 1 2 Now viewing page 2 [25 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
| Yoga -> Yoga Teachers | Message format |
mishoga |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 1738     Location: right where I'm supposed to be | |||
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| tourist |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 8442   | Yeah, she was pretty nasty. Zoebird was there. I admit she did have to deal with Christine, who could dish it out, but it was unpleasant in the extreme. The fact is that was all HAVE to be judgemental. We must use our discretion and judgement all the time and ever so much more when it is a matter of our health - whether we are including mental, emotional and spiritual health or "just" our physical body. I don't want to go and learn to swim from someone who has had a few weekends of training and never swam before in her life, but was a really good runner and personal trainer before she decided she had time to add a swimming component to her resume. I don't doubt she brings great skills, is keen and sincere, but I'd be crazy to take a swimming class from her! Those of you who have a serious yoga practice and good quality instruction from elsewhere before you go to YF are a whole other category. As I said, I respect and understand people's reasons for doing YF training. A sincere and honest teacher with a good background can undoubtedly be a great YF teacher. But the YF cert alone is not a guarantee of good teaching as far as I can see at this point. I hate the "yogicer than thou" thing and have a real distaste for the airy fairy school of yoga. I have met a few like that and it makes me very impatient very fast. The kind that have a sign up saying not to wear perfume and then burn all kinds of noxious fumes in the class   There are not a lot of yoga divas in my circle of Iyengar teachers. Thank goodness! I suspect there are very few in general as BKS would not put up with that sort of thing, I am sure. | ||
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| Kym |
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| Kym |
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tourist - 2006-09-15 7:07 PM Kym - YF is indeed changing (I have been told) their trainings to help create better teachers. But even you say that after one training nobody is going to be ready to teach. And if they know that and keep studying, fine. But if they go and teach anyway....  Two things got my back up about YF - one was that originally (and I have no idea if this is still true) anyone who had completed ONE weekend could carry on and become a teacher trainer.  The second was the founder herself who came onto another board I was on and was very rude and nasty. Downright "unyogic" IMHO. Well, I guess three things - how many weekends does it take to get Level 3? I am always the first to admit (and have done so in this very thread) that YF is a handy cheap way for good teachers without official certs to get insurance. But nobody can be a good teacher of anything starting from zero in 3 or even 10 weekends without training from some other source. I try and try to be diplomatic, but there is just no way around that as far as I can see. I would never judge you or anyone else strictly by their YF cert but I would certainly check out their other credentials before going to a class. You are more careful than me. I take a yoga class and decide whether I like their style after the class and never ask about training. In fact, today at a meditation workshop, the teacher said she was trained in Kripalu (sorry-sp?) and I never knew that. I LOVE this woman and she is one of my very first teachers. I have taken her classes on and off for 6 yrs and never knew her training. On the other hand, I took a class recently and the teacher made a huge error in cueing and I hurt my neck b/c I had my mind elsewhere-I was not present!-and did what she said. I don't know her training and I don't care if she was trained by the spirit of Pantanjali himself, I'm not going back to her! With all due respect, I think with your Iyengar training, you lean toward thinking someone needs eons of training before ever standing in front of a student. I think that's admirable, but I think you have to allow some quarter for the rest of us folks who do not do Iyengar. I honestly don't think I could change your mind about how much training is required, and I can't say I *know* how much training is required. Whereas you think it's a set time, I think it's individual. I'm guessing you're talking about Beth? Frankly, I can understand her getting pissy. I'm a pretty mellow person and very happy person, but I'm willing to bet a lot of people here think I'm rude. People downright put down YF and statements like Zoebird's about YF being stripped of spirtuality are ignorant. And ZB seems so knowledgable-I was suprised she said it! So, yeah, I've gotten upset here and I'm not the dang founder.  I'm just here putting in a good word for what I believe in.  | |||
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| Kym |
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JC-I loved level 3 and it's usually with Sandi Call. She's a neat person.  And, have you ever had Sybill? She's my hero-so down to earth and knowledgable. I love her confidence. I'm looking so forward to level 4 and I'm planning to take it in Jan in San Diego. You MUST tell me if you go! | |||
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| kulkarnn |
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| JackieCat |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 418 Location: New York | |||
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| JackieCat |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 418 Location: New York | |||
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| one of the things that neel points out is really important. in some facilities--not limited to gyms--leaders or directors have asked me to exclude certain elements that i believe, think, or feel are important to the practice. i have no trouble letting go of lighting, music, or scent, but i do have a hard time letting go of prayerful/mindfulness, meditatioin instruction, and the 'bare bones' of my teaching which focuses on alignment. i have had many people criticise my teaching because of my focus on alignment. i've been told "it's not fun" and "the students don't feel the love" and 'there's no need to focus on alignment, what is important is that the student has a good time.' i notice here that there are philosophical differences between the directors/leaders/owners and myself, and because of this, i feel compelled to remove myself from that situation. Aspects of their philosophies are wrong, IMO--and potentially dangerous to the physical wholeness of the client, but by the same token, i don't necessarily think of myself as "better" than them--just different as they do focus on safety, just not in the same way that i do. and this is a judgement thing, not a judgemental hting. judgementalism focuses on heirarchy in an egotistical or absolute sense. but, judgement focuses on the individual, the issues inherent, and the underlying currents of decision making processes. it's not about elitism, but about differences and 'fit' as well as differences and 'appropriateness' from a variety of perspectives. i have a vague memory of the situation that tourist mentioned. i do not recall how i behaved, but i have spoken to YogaFit organization leaders (if not Beth Shaw herself, who knows?) about the issues that i have with their organization. one of my employers took YogaFit training and found it very problematic. She got her level 1 cert, and then wrote a very long, extensive criticism of the program to the organization. the organization then called her back and asked to speak with her at length about her concerns. What i found refreshing about this was it was during the time when they started to take Yoga Alliance and their criticisms from the Yoga community at large seriously. My employer and I went to the meeting together and we discussed--civillly and at length--the perspectives and issues that we had with the program. what is interesting is that my employer is purely a fitness instructor. All she does is teach gorup fitness classes. She's excellent at her job and has been running large-scale group fitness programs for years and teaching group fitness for years. As yoga became more popular, she sought out information about yoga--and that's what lead her to YogaFit. from her perspective, YogaFit didn't do enough from the fitness professional perspective, just as i felt it didn't do enough from the Yoga industry/field Perspective. our criticisms weren't of beth shaw or of any teachers in particular, but whether or not the training would be effective for a safe class in a group fitness setting. both my employer and i felt that it wouldn't be and listed the various reasons--not enough anatomy training, no CPR requirement before going to volunteer to get your cert, and not enough early-on specialization in senoirs, pregnant women, etc, to make the class safe for special needs. These were the criticisms from my employer, the fitness professional. We noted that within a year, many of the requirements, etc, had changed. my criticisms were that an individual cannot learn enough about yoga in a weekend to truly call what they teach 'yoga.' Yoga is a much larger discipline than asana, and asana itself goes into the deeper aspects of body, energy body, mind, and spirit in ways that a brand new beginners is not fully able to access. It takes about a year--sometimes two--to access the basics and begin to 'feel' or understand these layers of consciousness through the movement. Prior to YA, i remember that yoga teacher training progarms required at least one year of consistant practice and an intensive interview bfore they would accept a teacher in training. today, that has changed a bit (or a lot, and i criticize that within the industry too). to this, i recommended that they encourage their teachers to take classes in some form of yoga consistantly while doing their taecher training. now, this is encouraged, but before it was considered "unnecessary" because "we're teaching for the gym environment, . . ." i know a lot of teachers who have been certified through Yoga Fit, NESTA, and a couple of other organizations. these teachers are people who had years of experience before teaching and some of whom who simply started teaching without any training--just based on their experience and the local need. obviously, i don't think training is paramount. Helpful for beginner students and beginner teachers, but not paramount. And no one training is perfect in any way as it is--everything has it's holes. Quite simply, you can't learn yoga in 200 or 500 hours. You can gain some skills to be a safe effective teacher, and the rest is really up to you and your support network (teachers, fellow teachers in training, etc). but, this isn't about being judgemental, but using judgement to determine what works, what doesn't work. YogaFit may work for someone for certain reasons--even though it's not the best (in a sense of comprehensive or more yoga focused than fitness/gym focused) training and it is one of the most expensive. And, i do have this to say for YogaFit, that woman can market the hell out of anything. She is very successful for a reason--good marketing. If other yogins figured out that process, wow. . . | |||
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| tourist |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 8442 | Ok - I'll try to remember all of the points here. There may be editing... Don't you wish we could choose to "see" the whole thread when we are composing a reply? Kym - I did mention that the other person in the conversation could "dish it out." And surely Beth would have been on the defensive at that point. This was pre-YA YogaFit so the program was not what it is today. As for training, yes, I do believe my training is the current "gold standard" worldwide. If someone from any part of the world tells me they are going to a certified Iyengar teacher, I feel they are assured of a certain level of teaching. But as ZB says, it is not so much the training (I admit to being shocked to see that I agreed with her on that statement!) but the depth of experience. Going back to my swimming teacher example - if one of my kids decided to take up teaching swimming, I would be perfectly happy to take lessons from them even if they only had a weekend cert. Why? (Not just because they are my kids  ) Because they each spent many years swimming competitively and had expert, intense, high level coaching when they were learning. They would not be the best swim teacher they could be after a weekend, but they would know the mechanics of what they were teaching on a deep level and would know enough not to try to teach me butterfly before I could dogpaddle because they would be able to remember the progression of learning they had. I would hope that they would continue and develop more teaching skills and a deeper understanding of the foundations of teaching swimming, but they would be pretty safe teachers with only a few hours of training. As far as stripping away spirituality, this is what Beth Shaw told us was one of the main goals of YF. She wanted to "bring yoga to the masses" who apparently have no desire for spirituality or who are too frightened of exploring it from a different perspective than they already have. There is certainly a place for that and good reasons to present yoga asana in a non-threatening way. OTOH, it is insulting to those of us who do teach in a traditional way to suggest that we are wrong and it is insulting to people's intelligence to say that they are not able to accept any beleif system other than what they already have. It is also a bit irritating to me that anyone who has less training or experience than I do automatically considers me to be condescending or arrogant, which is what Ms. Shaw did. When we post online we cannot always convey attitude or inflection well, but I can tell you that people who know me find me pretty friendly and accepting. I had the delightful compliment once that I didn't make students feel stupid, even when they were. I strive to continue to live up to that | ||
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| Kym |
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| ZB-thanks for your more thoughtful response. I think it's pretty neat that YF listened to your input. To see some of your suggestions come to fruition has to be satisfying. I'm going to infer that Beth also had backlash about taking all the spirtuality out of her trainings b/c that is what all of Level 3 is about. That is why I was so shocked that you said that-it is taught now, but I also had no idea that it had not been taught in the past. Tourist, I also like the fact that if you have a certified Iyengar teacher, you know just what you're getting. I'm not going to take that away from you. I think it's awesome that you are so dedicated to your goal. I, too, am dedicated, just on a different path. | |||
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| tourist |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 8442 | Thanks Kym. I am grateful for all the yoga teachers of all the styles. Iyengar as a style (or me as a teacher for that matter ) is not for everyone and it is good to know there are other styles and teachers out there. Honestly, from a business perspective, we feed each other students all the time. And on a spiritual level, the more connections we can make, the better for the world in general | ||
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| ollie |
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tourist - 2006-09-16 7:35 PM The fact is that was all HAVE to be judgemental. We must use our discretion and judgement all the time and ever so much more when it is a matter of our health - whether we are including mental, emotional and spiritual health or "just" our physical body. I don't want to go and learn to swim from someone who has had a few weekends of training and never swam before in her life, but was a really good runner and personal trainer before she decided she had time to add a swimming component to her resume. I don't doubt she brings great skills, is keen and sincere, but I'd be crazy to take a swimming class from her! Well said. About the original thread: someone asked "I want to get X, Y, and Z out of training, and a YogaFit training session is nearby. Should I take it?" The answer was "no, not if you want X, Y and Z." There is nothing wrong with that. Mind you, I might well take yoga-fit training as 1) that is what our local park district counts and 2) the local teachers have been asking me to get it; I think the real reason is that they need more potential substitute teachers. No, I am years away (if ever) from being qualified to teach a serious yoga class, but perhaps I can, with some work, be able to fill in at a gym setting and keep the (mostly middle aged, out of shape) students from hurting themselves.  | |||
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| ollie |
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zoebird - 2006-09-17 11:10 AM i have had many people criticise my teaching because of my focus on alignment. i've been told "it's not fun" and "the students don't feel the love" and 'there's no need to focus on alignment, what is important is that the student has a good time.' Actually, you sound like someone I'd like to have as a teacher. | |||
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| tourist |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 8442 | ollie - 2006-09-20 9:25 AM No, I am years away (if ever) from being qualified to teach a serious yoga class, but perhaps I can, with some work, be able to fill in at a gym setting and keep the (mostly middle aged, out of shape) students from hurting themselves. ollie - beware of this slippery slope! When I started I could not begin to imagine teaching anyone ever. Then a fellow student/coworker suggested we practice together, another coworker asked to join us and the next thing I knew I was in teacher training. I still marvel at the depth and breadth of my teacher's understanding of yoga and wonder if I will ever reach that level. But I do seem to know enough to keep my own "(mostly middle aged, out of shape) students from hurting themselves." And we have a really good time, too | ||
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| ollie |
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Expert Yogi Posts: 8442 | ollie - that is a nice way of thinking about it. More and more though, on a slightly different angle, is that I find people really want to have leaders tell them what to do. It is fascinating to me that people keep coming to me and pretty much doing everything I tell them to with nary a complaint! It is not that I am so brilliant, but I have a plan, I know what I think they can do and they are willing to go along with that for at least 90 minutes a week. So it is a big responsibility, too. But sooooo much fun! | ||
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Expert Yogi Posts: 8442 | |||
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Expert Yogi Posts: 8442 | |||
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