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| last night one of my students told me that last week he was stoned for the first part of class..... thoughts on that?? un-yogi and felt weird that he told me.. wasnt sure to scold him(ha) or what??? weird....
Edited by zenergy47 2006-10-05 9:47 AM
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| for me, no big deal. if someone tells me, i say 'ok.' the main thing about sharing this information is that they're trying to get a 'rise' out of you. if you don't 'rise' then they'll focus on the why they told you, why they're doing it, and when they come back, they'll be changed.
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Expert Yogi
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| zen - I tend to take ZB's approach to stuff like this. Kind of "oh, that's interesting. Not generally recommended but I guess now you know how your body reacts in that situation." |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Well getting stoned is not so bad, its just illegal in this country. Besides, Shiva loves marijuana,  |
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| yeah i kinda just said - oh ok... and then he proceeded to tell me that he felt that he was able to concentrate better with out it.. so at least he learned something for himself |
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| well, only certain kinds of getting high are illegal in the us. nicotine, sugar, caffiene, alcohol, and a number of other substancse can cause 'highs' that are perfectly legal.
and most of the time, the majority of my clients come to class hepped up on one or more of these.  most of us just don't think of them as drugs that have stimulants.
it's part of the reason why sattvic foods are recommended before asana practice. sattvic foods help keep the body-mind on a calm, even keel so that practice can be that dynamic opening described in all the scriptures. but, most people will have garlic and onions for dinner before class, or coffee before morning class, or sugar before mid-morning class, or eat meat and so on--all of which cause some kind of hormonal and bodily 'hepping up' or 'depressing' of various things--chemical "highs" of different sorts--that can negatively affect practice.
but, there's no need to comment on it really when people want a rise.
and of course, as we know from tantric studies--often these rajasic and tamasic things were utilized to gain certain experiences, as are a number of other drugs that would be considered illicit. and in context, that's entirely appropriate. It's very different than using drugs for recreation or avoidance. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | zenergy47 - 2006-10-05 11:09 AM
yeah i kinda just said - oh ok... and then he proceeded to tell me that he felt that he was able to concentrate better with out it.. so at least he learned something for himself
Which is the way it should be, the student learned something for himself. It's really not necessary for us to say much is it?? In fact, that is the beauty of yoga.
As for Sattva, Rajasic and Tamasic...that's another misconception that Westerner's have manipulated and misconstrued into yoga as well. It's a little bit more complex, although if one is able to balance these out, there is no problem with them. That's all I'm going to say about it. |
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| yes, that is the case.
throughout daily life, we need a balance of foods--all three sorts.
but to prepare for meditation or asana practice, it is recommended to fast a certain number of hours and/or only consume sattvic foods during this time before practice. Iyengar discusses it on LOY and other luminaries have expressed this at length as well.
it's time based, not absolute. if we only ate sattvic foods all the time, we wouldn't have balance.
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| Doh! ZB getting all the good answers in first! (And the server is eating my posts.  )
Usually this is done to get a rise out of you. Or it could be that the student was STILL stoned, and was blabbing because of it. 
FWIW, I have a friend who likes to play this little game with me, particulary since I'm the "straight arrow" of the group. Honestly, it's gotten to the point that this is a really "Oh yeah" sort of thing. It's also given me a much more calloused attitude towards people who have a serious problem with drugs and alcohol, since I usually put them in the same boat, people trying to get a reaction out of me.
zoebird - 2006-10-05 11:18 AM
well, only certain kinds of getting high are illegal in the us. nicotine, sugar, caffiene, alcohol, and a number of other substancse can cause 'highs' that are perfectly legal.
and most of the time, the majority of my clients come to class hepped up on one or more of these. most of us just don't think of them as drugs that have stimulants.
Most of those substances have effects that are pretty mild compared to their illegal counterparts (alcohol being an exception). So, while they DO effect us, there are other things that effect us more.
A good example of this would be the graviational pulls of various planetary bodies. Right now we're in the graviational field of all of the planets in the solar system. However, since this effect gradually diminishes as you move away from the planet, the effects are so negliable that we usually don't take them into account.
I sure that a couple of harsh words at the wrong time can have much more effect on somebody than a couple of cups of coffee. Same thing with a bad breakup or fight with your SO, verse the effects of alcohol.
Anyway, the low hanging fruit first, and higher up stuff later on.
(And Cyndi's right, MJ is considered to be a sacriment to Siva. ) |
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| My thoughts on getting high or my thoughts on the student sharing that information with you?
I'll take number two first:-)
There are three possible resons the student shared this with you, his teacher.
He may have been looking for reaction or "rise", he may simply boast of his drug use freely, or he may want some guidance about his maryjane usage and the practice. Similar to your other post you can down play it, say "oh" and walk away and there are times where that is right on. It is right on when you've first considered whether or not this person is seeking you out as a light in his darkness. Much of the condition of the planet is a result of saying nothing. So I'd prefer, personally, to consider saying something first. That's just me. Too many attrocities pass in silence.
Now relative to the practice. And this perspective will also tell you how I'd respond, if I respond (of course after due consideration).
The practice of yoga, to me, is about feeling more. It's an awareness practice. And while history is filled with incidence where halucinogens are used to enhance experience and open the mind it's medicinal in application rather than constant consumption.
Therefore, to me, that which deadens the central nervous system, that which masks or numbs, to me, is counter productive to yoga practice. In that light I do not drink coffee or alcohol, I do not use drugs or prescription medcine (typically), and I do not own a television. Now I am still working with refined sugars. So this is how I chose to live and therefore it's how I chose to model yogic life for those I teach. These are things I've let go in order to enrich my practice of self awareness.
I've often said that yoga teachers should be evaluated by their lives, not by their asana. And I stick by that. So for this student, if I were to say something other than "oh" I would simply educate without judgment. I would explain the safety issues with being stoned in class and convey the effects of these sorts of things on the potential depth of his pactice. Then it's his educated choice.
It is only infrequently that the teacher is a bystander. |
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| GJ:
i think that the most important thing is to observe the effect on the individual's body and overall consciousness. sugar and caffiene can be major hinderances to asana practice, for example, because they can cause muscle shaking that looks like parkinson's tremors during practice. i've seen this many times. while it may not be the same effect as being drunk, it's still an effect worth observing.
when my clients say to me 'i can't stop shaking' and it is obvious to me it is from too much sugar and/or caffiene, i'll ask what they ate for dinner or for breakfast or what have you. Most will admit to a great deal of sugar or caffine, and i'll point out the relationship between the shakes and the sugar/caffiene. Then, they come to the conclusion that perhaps sugar or caffiene before class is not a great idea.
most of my clients discover that friend foods, meat, spicy foods are not good before class either--as they make you feel 'heavy' and make practice difficult.
These discomforts of the body are needless distractions, which can be easily avoided by avoiding those foods before practice. Simple enough, right?
But that is not to say that they should be categorically avoided--even to the point of illicit drugs. these things can be medicinal, informative in other ways, and useful in other ways. There are many traditional societies that utilize these substancse for spiritual development and growth--as cyndi and you pointed out with marijuana and shiva-related rituals and practices. peyote comes to mind, among others including modern incarnations such as LSD.
but i wouldn't recommend these things before class such that their effects would be present during asana practice. |
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| zoebird - 2006-10-05 1:47 PM
GJ:
i think that the most important thing is to observe the effect on the individual's body and overall consciousness. sugar and caffiene can be major hinderances to asana practice, for example, because they can cause muscle shaking that looks like parkinson's tremors during practice. i've seen this many times. while it may not be the same effect as being drunk, it's still an effect worth observing.
Hmm... That's interesting, I get the shakes, but I thought it was usually indicative of the muscles being strained, or at the point of exhastion (sp?). BTW, what do you consider to be "too much" caffine? I'm pretty much down to a single coke a day, a 20 ozer in the morning. I also don't shake anywhere near as much as I used to in class, which I attribute to my muscles being much more conditioned to the various activities. For example, I'm still getting the shakes in yogalates, but the teacher asks us to do lots of really difficult ab work.
Now, I have had the caffine shakes, but the last time I had a serious case, I had just drunk and entire 2 liter of mt dew in about 20 minutes.
most of my clients discover that friend foods, meat, spicy foods are not good before class either--as they make you feel 'heavy' and make practice difficult.
It's been my experience that if I have ANY kind of food in my stomach during yoga, I'll get a 'second taste' as it were. Doesn't seem to matter what type of food it it, just that I've eaten something that hasn't been completely digested. It's my understanding that meat and other spicy foods are harder for the body to digest, possibly leading to the situation you're refering too.
but i wouldn't recommend these things before class such that their effects would be present during asana practice.
Agreed. FWIW, I've tried running and walking while drunk, and I can't think of a more unpleasant activity. When I'm stoned, which has been for years, I usually can't make enough concious effort to move, let alone do something physical. |
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| smoking marijuana and doing yoga................
the only reason they told you was probably to see if you would like to buy an 1/8 or something along those lines.......
Not that I'd know anything about that sort of lifestyle |
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| GreenJello - 2006-10-05 2:46 PM
Hmm... That's interesting, I get the shakes, but I thought it was usually indicative of the muscles being strained, or at the point of exhastion (sp?).
shakes can be caused by a number of things form low blood sugar, glycogen issues (already burned up), muscle exhaustion, stertch reflex, energetic releases, and various other causes. but 'sugar shakes' and 'caffiene shakes' have very distinct manifestations--if you know what you're looking for.
BTW, what do you consider to be "too much" caffine?
couldn't say really, i'm not up on the numbers. i would say that if it's causing some form of negative effect, then it's 'too much.' and if it's not causing that negative effect, then you're probably at 'the right amount.' and of course, it will vary for different people.
I'm pretty much down to a single coke a day, a 20 ozer in the morning. I also don't shake anywhere near as much as I used to in class, which I attribute to my muscles being much more conditioned to the various activities. For example, I'm still getting the shakes in yogalates, but the teacher asks us to do lots of really difficult ab work.
first, great about the coke thing. getting down to one is a good thing, no? i've been coke-free for 10 weeks now. the last time i was soda pop free it lasted two years until i went to africa. i started to drnk soda because it was free and you had to pay for water. so i paid for water at breakfast and dinner and in between i drank soda. Tangawezi is an amazing ginger soda. woowee! yowsa!
your reduction in shakes could be due to that, or a combination of both or any other thing too. i don't know. i'd hvae to see your shaking. sometimes it's just effort and nervous energy too.
Now, I have had the caffine shakes, but the last time I had a serious case, I had just drunk and entire 2 liter of mt dew in about 20 minutes.
i think that would do it. LOL
It's been my experience that if I have ANY kind of food in my stomach during yoga, I'll get a 'second taste' as it were. Doesn't seem to matter what type of food it it, just that I've eaten something that hasn't been completely digested. It's my understanding that meat and other spicy foods are harder for the body to digest, possibly leading to the situation you're refering too.
yup. any food too close to class is challenging, whether it's sattvic or not. but if you eat an hour before class--say--and it's heavy, it will still be heavy during class. whereas if you eat something sattvic before class, it's less likely to affect you as it will be mostly digested.
Agreed. FWIW, I've tried running and walking while drunk, and I can't think of a more unpleasant activity. When I'm stoned, which has been for years, I usually can't make enough concious effort to move, let alone do something physical.
well, and in some cases that's part of the point. holding still to let whatever it is happen. the LSD experiments in this area are particularly interesting to read. i've never done LSD myself, but in a ritualized context, i might try it. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | I don't believe I am in a position to judge. I don't like being judged so I don't judge others. Many prominent people participate in activities that would be frowned upon by others. I'm sure there are some famous yogis that do things they wouldn't want others to know about.
If a student did come to me to inform me, I would say "OK?" ......nothing more.If they choose to smoke marijuana before class, that's their business. Maybe the yoga will bring light to why they even smoke it. Who knows? It could be insightful for a smoker.
The only time I might voice an opinion is if a particular person under the influence of any substance, would disrupt the class for others. That also goes for a person who behave innapropriately too.
Mish |
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| zoebird - 2006-10-05 2:58 PM
I'm pretty much down to a single coke a day, a 20 ozer in the morning. I also don't shake anywhere near as much as I used to in class, which I attribute to my muscles being much more conditioned to the various activities. For example, I'm still getting the shakes in yogalates, but the teacher asks us to do lots of really difficult ab work.
first, great about the coke thing. getting down to one is a good thing, no?
Thanks. To be frankly, I was completely caffine free for a couple of months, and started again to deal with getting up earlier for the new job. The kittens also like to wake me up early, between playing, and deliberate attempt to get breakfast.
Anyway, I really don't see any huge differences between caffine, and no caffine. In a lot of ways the body quickly adjusts to it, requiring larger and larger doses. While most drugs do this, caffine is really notorious for doing it quickly. When I used to drink lots and lots of soda at work, it was usually because I was bored, and soda was the quickest method for getting "something to drink".
The thing the bothers me most about it is two fold. First, it's become a bad habit. Second, all the sugar/calories are bad in the long term for fairly seditatry people such as myself. Third, as stated before the resistance that the body builds up makes it harder to use caffine when I need it.
well, and in some cases that's part of the point. holding still to let whatever it is happen. the LSD experiments in this area are particularly interesting to read. i've never done LSD myself, but in a ritualized context, i might try it.
I've never really been all the impressed with the effects or the users. I've had some pretty interesting experiences sober that really don't compare with the things I've seen and done "under the influence". To quote The Who's 5:15 "Uppers and downers, either way blindfolds...." |
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| I gave up caffeine 3 years ago, because I couldn't sleep properly and because I just seemed too on edge. And I didn't drink tons of it but a few cups a day though.
Since(after the withdrawl period) I have slept better, felt better, and don't need something to wake me up in the morning.
I wouldn't go back to it because I don't need it, simple.
It's a very good laxative though. But it also stimulates acid in the stomach lining which can cause a few problems after a while, such as an excessive production of hydrochloric acid, which can cause some nastiness.
I'm not preaching, it's just another opinion.
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| http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.greencoffee.mvc.shtml
I don't drink as much coffee as I used to, down from a pot a day to maybe two or three pots a week, now.
But the point is, when I drink coffee, I roast my own and it is the best coffee that anyone I know has ever tasted, at least that's what they keep telling me when I share.
It's simply impossible to beat a really good cup of coffee at the right moment.
And for those who have smoked some kind bud, I'm sure the same can be said.
Edited by SCThornley 2006-10-05 7:15 PM
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| I would say too much caffeine, for you GJ, is when your proctologist buys a new condo in Aruba.
Value the prostate I say, d@mn it!!!
LOL
GreenJello - 2006-10-05 11:46 AM
... BTW, what do you consider to be "too much" caffine? I'm pretty much down to a single coke a day, a 20 ozer in the morning. I also don't shake anywhere near as much as I used to in class, which I attribute to my muscles being much more conditioned to the various activities. For example, I'm still getting the shakes in yogalates, but the teacher asks us to do lots of really difficult ab work.
Edited by purnayoga 2006-10-05 7:22 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| I think when I give an "oh, really?" sort of answer to a student, it is intended as an open ended comment with invitation for them to continue if they wish, not so much of a walking away from the question. It is interesting to me how none of the respondents here have been especially concerned, worried or judgemental about this question. We acknowledge potential problems but not in any sort of reactionary way. Yoga people are cool
The news yesterday said that we in British Columbia do 65% more pot now than we have in the past 10 or 15 years. It is a bit peculiar, but we are oddly proud of our BC bud. It almost makes me wish I knew the guys that had the grow-op a few houses down the street from me last year.   |
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| DownwardDog - 2006-10-05 5:40 PM
I gave up caffeine 3 years ago, because I couldn't sleep properly and because I just seemed too on edge. And I didn't drink tons of it but a few cups a day though.
The really interesting thing about drugs is they have a very wide range of effects on people. These effects also vary quite a bit from place to place, time to time, in the same person.
When I was about 19 or 20 my brother and I went to a party. This was a bit of a thing for us, since we don't always get along very well, so we were going to do some male bonding by drinking. Plus when you're in high school it's one of those things to find out "how you act drunk". Since I was such a straight arrow, pretty stuck up, and straight laced, by brother figured I be completely wild while drunk.
Well, it was a pretty tame party (which was fine), and we both had a couple, and then a couple more, and then a couple more. Anyway, I was getting pretty seriously buzzed, and we were sitting around playing cards, and I looked over at my brother and said "I'm drunk". He looked at me, and was completely amazed, since I wasn't showing any real signs of it. Anyway, point being that I seem to have a pretty strong grip on "reality", so a lot of things really don't seem to throw me off my beam.
And for those who have smoked some kind bud, I'm sure the same can be said.
Could very well be. I've never felt much urge to go back to it, or any really strong urge to stay away from it. I've know some people who craved it pretty bad, but I never seemed to get to that point.
Anyway, something else about situations like this is that the loud obnoxious people are always giving the rest of the group a bad name. With biker's it's the outlaws. With the pagans it's all the weekend witches. With yogis it's all the 2 week wonders writing books. This guy is probably just another example of the loud obnoxious stoner. FWIW, Lao Tzu had it right, these guys are usually the posers, or "He who knows does not speak, he who speaks does not know." |
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| tourist - 2006-10-05 7:31 PM
I think when I give an "oh, really?" sort of answer to a student, it is intended as an open ended comment with invitation for them to continue if they wish, not so much of a walking away from the question. It is interesting to me how none of the respondents here have been especially concerned, worried or judgemental about this question. We acknowledge potential problems but not in any sort of reactionary way. Yoga people are cool
My guru has a little running joke, partially due to his issues with the Christians. He just says "Smoke Crack, Worship Satan." Since two is a poor number for a list, I usually like to add a third. In this case it might be "Smoke Dope, Worship Satan, Do Yoga!" |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Well after having quit the coffee scene over 10 years ago....recently, I bought a French Coffee Press for my guests so that I could serve them "nice" organic, fresh coffee. I drank some of it a couple of times with NO problems, until the other day. This was my third morning - not in a row, it was at random times, BTW. It really screwed with my stomach and I felt like crap. So, needless to say, I'm a definite CHAI person, however, if you come to my house and want a great cup of java...I've got Organic Peruvian and Guatamalan coffee...it sure does tastes good...with a dash of organic half and half and my pure honey, It's definitely me, not the coffee. Coffee is very warming and it just ain't the right time of the season...yet, in fact, I have to be careful with my Nepalis Chai because of the ginger and black pepper that is included in the "secret" ingredients, you know....so you can go hike Mt. Everest and grow hair on yer chest, |
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| I like the Lao-Tzu quote.. how appropriate- I have always felt that the people who tell you they are high or drunk are saying so for attention. I'd have probably given him a blank stare and walked away... maybe not the nicest response, but.....
Personally, I don't have a lot to say about drugs- me and the ol' pot don't mix. I felt my brain turning to mush and I usually ended up hanging my head over a toilet..needless to say, I gave it up pretty quickly. I was too much of a chicken to try anything else..I stuck to the booze in my younger days.
As for the coffee thing, I was never much of a drinker- usually more tea than anything. And maybe a cup or 2 per week. BUT, while my hubby was in rehab, I was running the restaurant solo- my hours were 6am-12am Tues-Sat, and about 8-5 on Sun and Mon... I was running on empty. Not to mention the emotional strain and having to learn all the aspects of the restaurant that I didn't understand....I was up to about 12-13 cups a day + red bulls in between... UGH! it hurts to think about it. About 2 weeks after he was home, I gave up caffeine and sugar all together (alcohol I gave up before he came home- it was kind of a homewrecker for us), My adrenals were shot to hell and it took my body about 3 months to adjust.. but once it did, I felt great!!
No more dragging around in the day, no more needing a "pick me up" in the morning, no trouble with sleeping... it all worked itself out (with the help of my chiropractor and nutritionist)...
I don't think I'd go back to that old lifestyle for anything! |
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| To be frankly, I was completely caffine free for a couple of months, and started again to deal with getting up earlier for the new job.
i think it's important to note that these things can be beneficial at times, just not to excess. i'm not caffine free, but i do not drink soda or coffee. I'm undoing soda for the reasons you mentioned (chemicals, sugar, etc). it's just better for me and i know it. i never had to undo coffee because i don't like coffee. it's a simple taste thing--like me and alcohol. i never had to undo it, because i never did it. LOL it's just not in my taste buds.
I've never really been all the impressed with the effects or the users. I've had some pretty interesting experiences sober that really don't compare with the things I've seen and done "under the influence". To quote The Who's 5:15 "Uppers and downers, either way blindfolds...."
first, a non sequitor that may come around later: i've only been high once. i was 17 and went to a pearl jam concert. it was indoors. others were smoking pot (i didn't know what it was, i just thought it stank and was 'yucky smokey!'). apparently i left concert happy, drove home, and chatted my head off at my mother from midnite to 2 am while eating two chocolate pies. The next morning, i had dto get up at the regular time. The deal was i could go to the concert as long as i went to school the next day.
i realize now that my parents were teaching me a lesson about responsibility and stuff before college, but anyway. . .
i had a latin test and a world literature test that day. i woke up at 6:30 am with probably the WORST headache i've ever had in my life. I mean, the headache i had when i miscarried wasn't as bad as this one. it was the worst. I was light and sound sensitive, and just in a total world of hurt. I went to school--very obediently--and subsequently got two Ds on my tests. Because i was a senior, there was a policy that if you got an A or B for the semester, you didn't have to take the midterm. My grades in world lit were high enough to allow for the D, but i had to take the latin midterm. But it was no problem, i like taking tests. I know, i'm weird. No Marijuanna, just tests. LOL
Anyhoot, i would say that other than this experience--most of which is hazy at best and the more prominent memory is the post-facto headache (and my mom informing me that i was high the night before, that "that" is what MJ smells like, and laughing her head off at me because i truly didn't know that i was high to begin with or why i had a head ache until she told me. . .i mean, i can see why she was laughing child of the 60s/70s that she was. . .)--most of my experiences in life have been sober and that's probably pretty excellent in and of itself.
but i'm intrequed by the cross-cultural religious use of various substances over time to induce certain experiences or bodily/mind states that would allow for certain spiritual experiences. What i think is the lynchpin in these experiences is the context.
it is one thing to sit around smoking MJ with your friends without any specific purpose, but i believe an entirely different thing doing so at a shivan temple with others who are doing it for a shiva-related purpose. Peyote or LSD taken for the purposes of simply taking them, are one thing, and taking peyote in a ritualized native american context is another entirely.
So, i think that there's "something" to the ritualized use of these various substancse and their various medicinal (spirit medicine as well) uses, that would make them 'not blindfolds'--though without this context, i believe that there is great risk that they are blind folds--or greater risk.
kinda like, you can learn yoga on your own, but it's easier with a good teacher. you can, concievably learn something from simply doing peyote--but the risk for injury or error is greater than if you're learning to 'do peyote' and doing peyote with one who knows how to use it, the context of it, etc.
so, yeah. . . |
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high student??????
