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| Tonight after limber, I began my class sat in easy sitting pose, asking participants to concentrate on longer smoother breathing while holding our postures, and not resorting to bad habits, such as shallow breathing or holding the breath. I asked the class to breathe through the nose only if comfortable, if not breathe through both mouth and nose. We opened our eyes, and slowly rolled down to the mat to begin with a simple supine twist, and bridge. Lily sat up as we held bridge, with here hands over her face. I immediately went over, and she said she had gone dizzy. She also said she felt sick. I told her to sit comfortably, and she if she felt any better. I continued with the class.
Lengthening the breath can bring on dizziness for those not used to certain amounts of oxygen in the blood, however, as the class continued, things didn’t improve for her, so she got up and made her way to the back of the room, to sit in a chair. She nearly toppled over, so members of the class, along with myself went over to help her sit down. She mentioned she felt sick, Lily is 66, and her daughter, also present in the class, got her mum a glass of water. I asked if she would like me to call her doctor .
We resumed the class, keeping a keen eye on lily. They have both been coming to this class for nearly a year, and were both doing fantastically. Lily did not recover all class, and at the end I spoke with daughter, and mentioned that she see a doctor as soon as possible, to ensure everything was ok. The daughter mentioned that a member of their family had a virus, and maybe she had caught this.
My concern is that as the instructor, part of you asks yourself, if it is your fault. I am aware that pranayama is deceivingly powerful, which is why I am careful with which breathing techniques I introduce, and when. I have checked her health screening form, and there is nothing on there to indicate any connected problems. I double checked if she suffered from blood pressure problems, which she doesn’t.
While the class was rapping up, Lily began to throw up the water she had drunk. Lily was quite ill, and said she felt hot, so I encouraged her daughter to call the doctor out once at home.
I have never had anyone ill in my class before, and I can’t help but feel quite upset about it. Safety and guidance are very important to me, and I work hard to ensure everyone is aware of their own, very varied limitations. If I am sensible, it is likely Lily does have a virus, but has anyone every known class participants to become ill from practising breathing techniques. or yoga in general?
Any helpful experiences here would be very appreciated
Edited by vegplot 2006-11-29 4:24 PM
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| Sounds like classic flu symptoms to me. If it happens again then maybe I would worry about it, but otherwise no.
Frankly, I think that a lot of the warnings that are made about Pranayama are usually given as part of the whole guru dependent nature of much of Hindu mysticism. I don't know of anybody who's had serious issues with it, nor have I heard of anybody first hand. These sorts of things always happen to friends of friends.... |
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Expert Yogi
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| It is an awful feeling, knowing that it is probably a virus but having that nagging sense that you might have been the cause or at least part of the cause of someone feeling ill.  I have had similar situations (not often!) where I have given the person restorative poses to do yet they still felt unwell. I always check to be sure they could get home safely - glad Lily had her daughter there! - and then let them go home. Don't beat yourself up - it was likely the bug. But call tomorrow and see how she is  |
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| Vegplot:
Your main problem is: You do not have perfect answer to Lily's problem. Correct? That is because:
- You do not know Lily as well as you think you know. You have to know her very very well including what the hell she was doing in the last week or so. All this has caused her this situation.
- You want to think that she will be well mainly with Yoga Exercise, etc. This is not true. She needs to change a lot to become very well.
- Lily her self may have the same feeling and situation with you, which I described in the immediate above statement.
- It is impossible that Lily started feeling bad suddenly in your class, possibly she was feeling low already.
- The solution for you is: a) Not to relate Lily's problem to Yoga alone. b) To know Lily thoroughly or leve her situation alone. c) And, keep yourself happy.
And lastly, what GreenJello has written and also what is mentioned by your OP is NOT a Classical Pranayama. Classical Pranayama is what is commented mystically by people., What you are doing is simple breathing. Even that can be called some Pranayama if your entire class only had that exercise alone. |
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| One of the great things about a yoga forum, in my opinion, is the divergent feedback your likely to get with the simplest of questions. Of course here I don't know what "limber" is. But so what.
Students do get sick, do have outbursts, do weep, do leave. What they should not get is injured. And from what you share you sound very conscientious, mindful. But I detect a note of guilt. And guilt is merely heaping a negative ontop of a negative. You know you didn't do anything "wrong". And by the by I never use that term with students. I would much prefer saying "instead of falling into patterns, breath deeply into and out of your nose". There. It's done.
But I digress. Look, who knows why the woman got ill. You're not her caretaker. You provide safe yoga instruction, period. You providED safe yoga instruction. The rest of it is merely an experience to observe and grow from.
I've had a student throw up after class. I didn't learn about it until I returned for my next class. But as it turned out the poor neophyte had eaten 30 minutes before class at some fat food mexican place. A burito right before class isn't likely to stay home.
No part of me, none, asked myself if this was your fault (or my fault in my case).
Just teach safely.
GreenJello
I think that a lot of the warnings that are made about Pranayama are usually given as part of the whole guru dependent nature of much of Hindu mysticism. I don't know of anybody who's had serious issues with it, nor have I heard of anybody first hand
I do. I've seen several practitioners with inability to formulate sentences (and I'm not talking about The President) who have been practicing a particular sort of yoga. In fact one such gent approached my teacher after a workshop about two years ago. I actually had to leave the room and my teacher would not discuss it further.
The basic principle is NOT guru magic. It is simply that moving intense energy through the body the body must be in alignment. If the body is not in alignment the energy tangents through the structure and can cause harm. There's nothing inherently wrong with pranayama, on the contra
Edited by purnayoga 2006-11-30 4:21 PM
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| I don't know, usually acute dizziness (coming out of bridge pose, no less) isn't the first symptom or sign of the flu. Given Lily's age, I'm guessing her blood pressure was tweaked during bridge pose (via the carotid artery). Even though Liliy doens't have a history of high blood pressure, she may have due to her age, her blood vessels are probably not functioning as efficiently as they used to. There's lots of minute problems that you'll never know about unless you get diagnostic imaging of the vessels or have an incident.
When some tells me they feel sick, especially immediately after a yoga pose, I think they mean they're going to vomit. Although I certainly have thrown up while sick with the flu.
I guess there's no way for us in cyberspace to know for sure but fill us in on Lily's recovery. You did the right thing. fifi |
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| Thank you so much for all your wise replies – they were extremely helpful, and made me feel so much better this morning.
I telephoned Lily this evening, who was in good spirits, and explained she had continued to be sick at home, and have the ‘runs’. This does indicate a bug of some kind, but she didn’t call a doctor because she felt much better this morning. She doesn’t believe it had anything to do with what she was doing in class, and even said I shouldn’t have given her class money back!
This is great news, but I will keep a close eye on her, to see if anything similar happens again, and insist she sees a health professional before she continues with a yoga class.
Thank you again, everyone
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | What about all that Thanksgiving food?? My observance has been that most people get really ill with stomach disorders after eating and overeating Holiday food. Then children always seem to have colds due to all the sweet stuff they eat around this time of the year. Then of course there are the season changes...our weather has been hot to cold from cold to Hot. It's getting to look a lot like the Holidays are here,  As usual, sometimes its just a combination of so many different things all at once. Pehaps you could mention to her that a simple diet needs to be followed...in fact, I think every one could stand to work on this.
Yesterday was my first day back to yoga class after my trip. We mostly did restorative floor postures, easing us back into it. It was such a great class.
That was so sweet of you to give her money back to her. |
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| purnayoga - 2006-11-30 4:15 PM
I do. I've seen several practitioners with inability to formulate sentences (and I'm not talking about The President) who have been practicing a particular sort of yoga. In fact one such gent approached my teacher after a workshop about two years ago. I actually had to leave the room and my teacher would not discuss it further.
Okay. Couple of questions spring to mind:
1) What was this person like before they under took whatever discipline they were involved in?
2) Why did you have to leave the room?
3) Why did your teacher refuse to discuss it? At the very least I'd expect some "Don't Do X" sorts of statements. |
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| Only question number 1 here is really valid to the issue.
And it's the tougher question to answer as we don't really know this chap.
But the stability and groundedness one would expect of a practitioner with several years under their belt clearly was not present. This was but one example. Most of this is shuffled under the carpet, dismissed, not spoken of. There are other stories told by those with greater experience in yoga than I - I'm talking decades and countries.
I left the room because it was not appropriate for me to be there. This person needed to have my teachers attention and my teacher needed his attention undivide - in my opinion. And it was actually painful and disquiting to observe this person struggle.
My teacher didn't refuse. He simply made it clear when I followed up later in the week that it didn't NEED to be conversed about. I was indirect. I said something like "hey that fellow you were talking to, sure was interesting". And he said "oh. Good;" You have to be there really. But he's shared what he needs to share with us in teacher trainings. And he's very careful to not mention names or brands. But still he gets the point across and after a while you sort of know what and who he is referring to.
He would never say "don't _____" he would just tell you it's effects and let you make the decision. Of say "this is not in the best interest of your well being because_____" But the point is/wass it's not guru magic meant to distance the student from the practice. |
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| what i teach in my classes isn't going to 'make someone ill'--so it's not a question that i've ever asked myself. I have had ill students in class before:
1. the first person ever to be ill in one of my classes was a man, age 45 or so, who passed out 1/2 way through the class. it was a vigorous vinyasa class in a heated room. i taught the 10:30 am class (as a sub), and he hadn't eaten any breakfast or taken in any water. I sat him down against the wall, had the assistant go and get some water with emergen-C mix, and then had that assistant keep an eye on him until he felt well enough to rejoin the class. I took the students through the next two postures while sitting him up against the wall, and then got up to resume regular teaching once the assistant took over.
2. the second person to ever be ill in my class was a woman who had been sick for a number of weeks with some virus or another--and the class was too much for her. Again, it was that vigorous class in a heated room. she threw up. I set her into a new spot, had the assistant lead and teach the class, while i cleaned the floor-area and removed the mats and towels from her space. I also got her water with emergen-C--she rejoined the class at the restorative postures.
3. the third person to ever fall ill in my class was a person who was newly pregnant. She fainted. She told me ahead of time that she'd had her IVF--that she was feeling 'off' but that the doctor said that she could do yoga. I took the class through a largely restorative sequence--she passed out from the movement from child's pose to a seated posture. i realigned her body such that she was breathing, rubbed her sternum, and she woke up. i propped her into supta baddha konasana for the rest of class, and she was happy as a clam. Unfortunately, she miscarried a week later--and then it was months of grief-healing yoga for her. She was emotionally ill (gagging from grief really) for a number of months following. Thus, she would gag in class or start crying--but we were open to this and made sure that she felt safe and happy.
4. the fourth person had a heart attack during class. She was in downward dog and breathing very heavily (Unusual for her--she was over 65). i went to her and asked her to go to child's pose. i asked how she felt and she mentioned chest pains. I asked my assistant to go and get asprin. another student in the class was a nurse, i asked her to move her mat closer to my client. I continued to teach the class, keeping a close eye on my student. She seemed to be feeling better, so she rejoined the class at a slower pace. After class, i drove her home, where she called her doctor. her doctor told her to go to the hospital, so i drove her there. She was diagnosed as having a heart attack. the doctor said that she was lucky that she was doing yoga, rather than sitting, etc, because the movement of the blood from the activity probably caused the clot to get moved, broken up, etc. He kept her in the hospital for three nites. he said that we did a good job in taking care of her--giving her the asprin, making sure she got to the hospital ultimately, etc.
she's back in class, btw, and going strong. This happened last year.
things happen--it's not necessarily our fault. And, i tell students when we first do pranayama--you might become dizzy or lightheaded. if this occurs, return to your normal breath until you feel 'normal' again, and then rejoin the pranayama practice.' it is powerful, but i've never had anyone get sick from it. |
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| purnayoga - 2006-12-01 2:10 PM
My teacher didn't refuse. He simply made it clear when I followed up later in the week that it didn't NEED to be conversed about. I was indirect. I said something like "hey that fellow you were talking to, sure was interesting". And he said "oh. Good;" You have to be there really. But he's shared what he needs to share with us in teacher trainings. And he's very careful to not mention names or brands. But still he gets the point across and after a while you sort of know what and who he is referring to.
I guess I would expect some sort of "That guy did X, which caused his problem." |
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When people become ill in clas
