 |
  |
 |
|
|
|||||||||
|
|||||||||
Site Areas  |
store | | | articles | | | forums | | | studios | | | vacations |
|
yoga | massage | fitness | wellness | meditation |
|
|
For future visits, link to "http://www.YogiSource.com/forums".
Make a new bookmark.
Tell your friends so they can find us and you!
Coming soon ... exciting new changes for our website, now at YogiSource.com.
 Sweat and heatModerators: Moderators Jump to page : 1 2 Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
| Yoga -> Ashtanga Yoga | Message format |
slowpie6 |
| ||
| Alright, so I'm midway through my third week of practicing ashtanga 5-6 days a week, with 5 sessions in class with teachers, some shorter practices at home (so I sometimes practice twice a day) for poses that I need to work on or ones we did not practice in class, and sometimes a full practice on my own on the sixth day. So I've been working myself pretty hard, and loving every step of it. I've noticed something odd happening though. In my first week, I would get terribly sweaty in class, soaked from head to toe, so much so that I would freeze while practicing savasana despite a thick blanket. But the rest of the time, going about my day as usual, I felt much warmer than usual, with a particular heat that seemed to be emanating right from the core of my body in the naval area. The second week, and this current week, I gradually started to sweat less during practice, still getting quite warm and still sweating, but to a much lesser degree. The heat in my belly has remained, mind you. I was wondering if others have a similar experience and what it might be due to... With the reduced sweating, I was at first concerned that I wasn't drinking enough water to replenish my fluids, so I increased my intake (I did spend a couple days feeling especially dehydrated, so I think there was some of that happening). But I do wonder if perhaps the vinyasa flow is starting to feel more natural and less forced, and maybe I am making use of a better posture so using my muscles a bit less forcefully... I guess it might be relevant to note that winter has finally set in here, starting last week, so I suppose it's possible that the studio is a bit less warm then it was during my first week. And what is this thing in my belly? I find it tremendously pleasant, it is not a warmth that has anything to do with a pain, and it doesn't feel muscular either (like from doing navasana for what seems to be hours, as we do in class!  ). Is this a normal, expected effect of ashtanga or yoga in general? What might be its cause? And as for my generalized sense of warmth, my theory is that maybe my base metabolism has been increased from the frequent use of my muscles, and their strengthening. Since we have quite the cold spell happening right now, I find it interesting that this feeling of heat is staying with me. Any other theories? Thanks for your thoughts! sp - feeling warm and fuzzy inside!  | |||
| |||
|
| ||
| |||
|
| ||
ah, it's stirring that inner fire. that's what the heat is. it's energetic/spiritual.  it's prana. | |||
| |||
| DownwardDog |
| ||
| Ashtanga generates heat that's one of the fundamentals really. Everyone sweats, some more than others. I don't drip unless I'm in a really hot room, but I sweat. It's good for you it eliminates the toxins. Another thing that ayurveda would take into consideration is that you might be pitta like me. Pitta tends to be hot anyway, and ashtanga isn't great for pitta all the time, as it can cause an imbalance. That's why I take a sivananda class or something once a week and practice ashtanga 5 times. (when I was in mysore 6 times was fine because all i had to do all day was stare at my belly button! Here there is more stress, more activity). Pitta imbalance causes sensations such as those that you describe, although I haven't experienced them. Also if you do too much too fast you can overheat too. You have to gently stoke the fire. I guess you can practice as often as you like but tradition is once a day, usually early morning. Your body does need time to recover from the practice, and you do emotionally as well. I think that you are doing a bit too much personally, and I worry that you will burn out from it, like a lot of people do. I think twice a day is too much. It's not unusual for people to go ashtanga mad at the beginning, and that's ok, but it should really settle down at some point as you become more experienced. I hope you don't think I'm being patronizing. I learnt this the hard way and it drove me up the wall, my practice is a lot calmer now, I have different intentions, I feel that I understand it a whole lot better. While it will obviously make changes to your lifestyle, like food, drink, getting up early etc... it shouldn't ruin other aspects of your life. David Swenson says "Don't let yoga ruin your life". Afterall, it's just yoga | |||
| |||
| slowpie6 |
| ||
| |||
| DownwardDog |
| ||
| Some people would say to not get attached to postures, it doesn't matter if you don't do them every day if you have already practiced. Read yoga Mala by Pattabhi Jois, it will explain things a whole lot better than I ever could. I'm glad that you're enjoying your practice | |||
| |||
| slowpie6 |
| ||
| |||
|
| ||
| |||
| slowpie6 |
| ||
| |||
| slowpie6 |
| ||
| |||
|
| ||
| yeah, essentially you can practice as much or as often as you want--as long as what you want is in alignment with what you need. some people practice up to 5 hours a day. i would say that my total yoga practices equals that, but i usually don't do more than 2 hours of asana a day. | |||
| |||
| DownwardDog |
| ||
| Yes but Zoebird, that's not ashtanga is it? The ashtanga system does not work the same way. I urge you to do some reading Slowpie, Guruji's book will explain things. Shoulderstand and headstand are in the finishing sequence, not primary series. Don't be rushed to do primary, it always takes time. That's not what it's all about. Besides, in ashtanga the postures come in a specific sequence for a reason, so the postures are added one at a time, in the correct order. I would follow what your teachers say, I think you have a very good one. It's probably best to ask them Edited by DownwardDog 2007-01-18 2:43 PM | |||
| |||
|
| ||
| no, which i asserted to begin with. although, i have practiced astanga twice a day when beryl is in town. | |||
| |||
| Bay Guy |
| ||
Expert Yogi Posts: 2479    Location: A Blue State | DownwardDog - 2007-01-18 2:38 PM Besides, in ashtanga the postures come in a specific sequence for a reason, so the postures are added one at a time, in the correct order. I would follow what your teachers say, I think you have a very good one. It's probably best to ask them OOOOO... okay, sorry, but I have to ask this question: What is the reason for the specific sequence? In primary series, it pretty much does make sense. In second series, the backbends are sort of sequential, but Kapotasana is pretty deep for such a quick approach. And in third series, the initial vinyasa'd balancings are just classical wonderful, but then we get paripurna matsyendrasana, some deep stretches and deeper backbends. I love all these poses, but the astanga sequences don't give you much opportunity to work into the deeper ones. Could this be because too much emphasis is placed on the pace of the vinyasas and the five breathes in a pose, rather than doing the poses to depth and taking vinyasas only when ready to move forward? ... bg | ||
| |||
| DownwardDog |
| ||
| |||
| Nick |
| ||
 Location: London, England | Hi BG, Good question, and one that will never be answered whilst the astanga community refuses to question the rules which Pattabhi Jois uses to rigidify the astanga system-is it possible that he is wrong? Very possible, but I don't think that a lot of people would accept this-the teachers have spent too many years insisting it's correct to follow these series, they would look like complete idiots if they suddenly went free-style-so it's probably not going to happen  Nick | ||
| |||
| Nick |
| ||
Location: London, England | Hi BG, Come to my class sometime-sometimes the whole class is a backbend workshop-going from cobra to kapotasana-sounds more like your cup of tea . On a related point, I think that many astanga students have very sloppy backbend technique-perhaps not surprising, when you look at how most of them practice upward-dog-I mean, in the sun salutes, you do this posture 20 times, and if you don't do it well, you must be ingraining bad backbend habits, no two ways about it. And it is an incredibly diificult posture to practice well-you are only there for a fraction of a second, and you have to do the most perfect posture of which you are capable-sometimes it helps to get students to spend a few seconds here, but still, very difficult to convince people that it is important to get this right so that other backbends go well. Nick | ||
| |||
| DownwardDog |
| ||
| I don't think you are an ashtangi at all Nick | |||
| |||
| slowpie6 |
| ||
| |||
| Nick |
| ||
Location: London, England | Hi DownwardDog and SP, I would be the first to admit it-I don't teach astanga in the traditional way-I cannot-what knowledge I have does not allow it. This puts me up for a lot of flak from students and teachers who see it as an insult-but really, I have no choice-well, I do, and that would mean me being too stupid to apply the rules of rehabilation and athletic improvement to astanga yoga. Or too scared to rock the boat, or downright disingenous. This is not a role I relish, so please don't think of me as a troublemaker. Put it like this-if you ask an expert for their help, then it their role to tell you the facts, not just what you want to hear. Whilst I would not describe myself as an expert in anatomy, I do know a lot more than the layperson. It's one thing to tell a person to go through a movement or adopt a posture, it's another thing to prevent injuries occurring, and to optimize their performance-and increased performance does not always guaruntee an injury free practice-in fact it often does the opposite. I believe that over the next few years, astanga yoga will change-it's changed a bit since I started practicing it 16 years ago-but the changes have not been as a result of experts in anatomy dismantling the practice. In fact, most of the changes have been to make the practice more accessible. So how do I define my practice as astanga yoga-well, if that means I have to toe the line, then I'm not interested in defining my practice as astanga yoga-but if that means that I can use what I know to increase people's enjoyment of this beautiful exercise environment, and perhaps to increase their appreciation of life itself, then I'm very proud to be an astanga teacher. In order to understand why I question tradition, it would be necessary for me to design a course, probably of several years in length, so that the student then understands what constitutes therapeutic exercise, and what does not. I can promise you, if that happenened, then you would understand my philosophy. I try to give in-depth answers to questions on this forum, but the fact is, that when you use ujjayi breathing or bandha, or good alignment, then it has effects on lots of different parts of the body, and it is necessary to appreciate the whole in order to understand the part that you are focussing on-how you do bandha will change the way you breathe, the way you move the way you hold a pose, the way your hands or feet connect with the floor, the way the blood returns to the heart, your heart rate, the actions of the limbs, and so forth-the list is endless-you can even use it to increase blood pressure (this is how weight-lifters avoid blackouts). Maybe the best thing to do, is to see what happens over time-do you or your classmates constantly have to battle with injuries, or do you never get closer to lifting (and I mean lifting, not jumping)into a handstand or through the vinyasa. Let's see what happens over the next few years. I'm fairly confident that my approach is sound, physiologically, and that I will continue to develop as a result. So, if you are equally confident, and know that you are pursueing a wise course, then we can all get together in a few years and chew the cud together In the meantime, i'll just keep on annoying you Nick | ||
| |||
| tourist |
| ||
Expert Yogi Posts: 8442   | It seems to me that Nick has discovered what many others have about ashtanga. It is a lovely practice, but will not work for everyone all the time. I think it is Desikachar who points out that Jois and Iyengar both studied with Krishnamacharya when they were teens and the practice they were taught was appropriate for young men with tons of energy. Krishnamacharya changed his way of teaching over the years, as did BKS, at least in part because they had students come to them for whom the athletic approach was not appropriate. Iyengar himself had serious injuries from accidents where he says he had to begin back at square one (though I guess his square one is not my square one!  ) and a full vinyasa routine could not possibly fit the bill for rehab. I have said many times and I still believe that if I had done any yoga, let alone strong vinyasa, without knowledge of good alignment, I would have blown out my knees in no time and would have had to stop. I am grateful for everyone who pays attention to alignment and form, not matter what they call it. | ||
| |||
| DownwardDog |
| ||
| |||
| Nick |
| ||
Location: London, England | Hi, So just to say somrthing positive about astanga yoga-you clould say that I do astanga yoga in spite of my physical training, or because of it. If I did astanga yoga in spite of my training, then I would be stupid, which might indeed be the case. But I practice astanga yoga because it offers a brilliant system for testing the whole body-mind to the (fluctuating) limits of perception and ability (mind and body). No other form of yoga that I have come across does this to the same extent as astanga yoga, but I'm sure there must be some. Perhaps if anybody has any suggestions? One of them main differences between astanga and other forms is its use of vinyasa. All the time, during sun salutes, you hear student's breathing stop. This is most noticeable when people are going to take their weight onto their hands, but also happens at the beginning or end of each posture. Look at how many people exhale as they draw back into down dog, and then look to see how the shape of the torso most closely resembles somebody who has been punched in the stomach-the student is doubled up. Ujjayi breathing is no longer possible to do properly, nor is bandha, nor is good posture-all is lost. As I said, I think the most observeable place to see halted breathing is when the weight is taken on the hands. In the sun salute you inhale to look up and then jump back into tadasana. people usually to some kind of modified valsalva maneuvre at this point. A valsalva maneuvre is when you tighten the muscles of the neck or throat to prevent the passing of air, and brace the diapghram and abdominal muscles to create pressure in either the thorax or abdomen. This is used to either lift a weight, or expel faeces, or prior to coughing or sneezing, or when you take a deep breath in to go underwater. Weightlifters, and yoga practicioners can be considered to be weightlifters, when you strip away all the fancy stuff ( ) are told not to train by lifting such large weights that they do a full valsalva maneuvre, so that the breath is stopped. I recall talking about this in the past on this board, sorry to re-hash. The results of regularly practicing the valsalva can include hypertension (not good for people who want to improve the quality of their thoughts through astanga yoga), varicose veins of the testicles, blackouts, and a few others that I can't recall at the moment. But if you restrain the breath by tightening the muscles appropiatley in the throat, and contract the core muscles, also appropiately, then these problems disappear, and in fact the maneuvre aids your movement, and its health benefits. The biomechanics of breathing are probably more complicated than the biomehanics of the most extreme yoga posture-you have about 70 joints on your back for the rib cage (most of the ribs articulate with the spine through three joints, and you have the costal joints where the ribs join to the sternum-all these joints make for a beautifully complex movement of the ribs that is staggering once you realize that it is the intricacies of the movement that make for such a dynamic unit. Fascinating stuff. I sometimes wonder whether the nerves of the sympathetic nervous system are stimulated by the rib movment, and that perhaps this is a mechanism for some of the mental benefits reported by those who practice yoga. Take care Nick | ||
| |||
| Nick |
| ||
Location: London, England | Hi DD, "I respect your views Nick and anyone else's for that matter, but I hope ours are also respected! It sounds to me like you think that ashtanga should be erradicated as a practice. That's a shame. " No, no, I want to see it develop Over time, people will be better educatede in what constitues a good form of exercise, and if astanga does not meet a more exacting requirement, then it will die out-so I would hope that we can all be open to change (I had to do it myself) when it is a distinct advantage. And I do respect your opinions, DD, of that you need ever be in doubt. But that anatomical devil sitting on my shoulder will also speak his mind as well So these things I'm saying are not opinions, they are my attempts to bring truth, rather than opinion, to a debate about which I care deeply Nick | ||
| |||
| slowpie6 |
| ||
| |||
| Jump to page : 1 2 Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page] |
| Search this forum Printer friendly version E-mail a link to this thread |
| (Delete all cookies set by this site) | |